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View Full Version : Alpharius and Omegon-- Two Sides of the Same Coin? *SPOILERS*



Rylanor
30-07-2008, 05:59
In the BL book Legion, a member of the Cabal named G'Latrro states that Alpharius and Omegon form the Primarch of the Alpha Legion. "...One soul in two vessels," is one of the remarks he/she/it makes. So my question is, if Alpharius was reported slain in battle with Guilliman, is Omegon now the full Primarch, one soul, one body? Or when Alpharius was killed, did Omegon croak too?

EDIT: Since Alpharius and Omegon were the same soul in two bodies, would it be possible that um, the Wonder Twins were able to save a bit of themselves from the Chaos they turned to? I don't know where I am going with this... just feels like Alpha Legion's story needs a lot more telling. After all, who doesn't like purple-armored ninjas with bolters?

weissengel86
30-07-2008, 08:32
After reading legion i find it very odd that the alpha legion fell to chaos to begin with. It seems to me that major changes went on after the events in the book. Maybe alpharius/omegon had some plan to fight chaos that put them in a position to work with horus (like the cabal wanted) but when alpharius or omegon was killed it actually put them on the path to be totally consumed by chaos. I really dont know what im talking about though as i understand next to nothing about alpha legion and i know even less after reading legion :)

Mechanicus
30-07-2008, 09:25
First, I think we need to get the idea of what a soul is: a warp presence of a sentient thing which reflects the emotions and concepts of it's mind into the warp. So Alpharius and Omegon are apparently both the same person genetically, but different mentally, as you might expect in twins (which is the word generally used in lieu of a more applicable one); and because they both have the same warp presence, I would imagine they'd be highly empathic and perhaps telepathic, but would not have to think the same. But, of course, since this is a new situation which we know nothing about, the case may be different.

Now, moving on to your first question: If (there's a very slim chance it was Sheed) one of the two was killed at Eskrador, I would assume all the warp presence would focus on the survivor, and he would be very seriously affected by the emotions of the other's death.

As to your second point, that's more controversial. In theory, following the definition of soul above, if one fell to Chaos, so would the other. Even if lightyears apart, the other would be affected by the former's choices to turn. But we don't know that this is how it would work (I mean it's hardly an exact science, and we've never had this situation before), so this doesn't particularly mean anything.

@Wissenengel86: From my understanding, they still sided with Horus, and went along with the daemons and the corruption as did all the traitors, but the Alpha Legion did it for the destruction of the Chaos Gods (regardless if it happened or not). They're hardly going to be able to turn around once Horus won and say "Yeah, sorry - I'm not into this Chaos stuff. I did it to kill the Chaos Gods" are they? Once Chaos takes hold on someone they don't let go. IMO, they sacrificed themselves to corruption, but for (in their view) honourable reasons.

TheOverlord
30-07-2008, 10:50
... so you posted what is already a huge spoiler in your title, and then you put the spoiler tag beside it O_o

Seriously? What in the world were you thinking when you wrote the title?

In any case, it's likely the Omegon died alongside Alpharius with his death. The psychic link between both must be strong enough that if one felt death the other would too.

I really didn't like this Omegon nonsense they pulled. Was it so hard to just let them be traitors and Alpharius as the young punk we all used to love? :P Alpharius in this is painted to be even more paranoid than the Lion, with more twists and turns in his scheme than a Champion of Tzeentch. They should've just kept with Alpharius being the headstrong young lad that hated Guilliman, that arrogant ****, that idolized Horus.

Lotan
30-07-2008, 12:09
You have to consider from the new light the book sheds whether Guilleman actually killed the real alpharius, seeing that he dressed like a normal marine, and if the Guilleman/Alpharius fight was a 2 primarch fight Alpharius was pretty lame....honestly getting cut in half in an instant, this smacks of a normal marine calling himself Alpharius taking one for the team. As for them turning to chaos, I think from the book its obvious they fight for their own agenda, they do not live in the eye of terror and so would need new recruits constantly. This says to me at least that the primarch/s is/are still alive to be able to take new geneseed constantly.

IMO they pay lip service to chaos to use in their own fight.

Faustburg
30-07-2008, 13:04
People saying that they are not following chaos, are working against it in secret and/or remain loyal to the Emperor are misunderstanding the book...

They are outright Chaos Space Marines, and very much against the Imperium and the Emperor.

What the alien conspirators there presented to them was a choice of a rock and a hard place; Either support the Emperor, and watch the galaxy perish completely as the Imperium eventually becomes infected with Chaos and drags all of creation down with it by going the same path as the Eldar (and while the pointy-ears had their population concentrated to a relatively small area, what is now the Eye, humanity is spread across the entire galaxy, so the warp/real space overlap that would be the end of all...), or join Horus in destroying the Imperium, have it burn out quickly and all over fast, sacrificing the majority of humans for the sake of the universe.

They choose to join Horus, but join they did, all in, no secret plan of working against him from the inside. They are Chaos scum, sure with their own agendas, but so have every Traitor Primarch, Chaos Lord and renegade Chapter Master, it doesn't make them unique.


(that said, I liked the idea of Alpharius as simply the kid brother idolizing Horus better as well, even if the twin part is kind of cool)

Brother Siccarius
30-07-2008, 15:13
In the BL book Legion, a member of the Cabal named G'Latrro states that Alpharius and Omegon form the Primarch of the Alpha Legion. "...One soul in two vessels," is one of the remarks he/she/it makes. So my question is, if Alpharius was reported slain in battle with Guilliman, is Omegon now the full Primarch, one soul, one body? Or when Alpharius was killed, did Omegon croak too?


The report that Alpharius had died was highly controversial to begin with, even within the article it appeared in. Especially considering that the Ultramarines had no record of the event (kinda think you'd write down killing a primarch), but that the only records of it were found many many decades afterwords with not even a shred of evidence to support it. Which was laid down in the IA article.

It's likely that the Alpha Legion Primarchs might have survived the entire thing. Of course, with the rest of his legion looking like him and being as tall as him, well, it'd be a little difficult to decide who was who anyways, wouldn't it?

As to their "fall"
The Alpha Legion still hasn't embraced chaos like the other legions have, they never really did in the first place. They don't sport the amounts of mutations of other legions, they don't make use of demons often, and they generally don't have the same identifying marks that point to the other legions as chaos worshipers (which allows them to act as they do, and cover themselves as loyal marines).

CULCHAIN
30-07-2008, 15:51
thi is correct you could not even use daemons in an Alpha legion army unless cultists brought them out

additionally, as stated the Alpha Legion does not live in the warp and has there own agenda whatever that is

maybe kicking the crap out of the sneaky stinking eldar

Slazton
30-07-2008, 17:50
In my opinion the Cabal were instruments of Chaos who were 'puppets' of Tzeentch and never knew it. Alpha Legion fell to Chaos willingly because they wanted to bring the 'End' the Cabal had predicted quickly and painlessly, seeing the current Imperium as nothing but a disgrace to the Emperor's visions for Humanity. Plus they also saw the Emperor's Vision as nothing more than an ideal that was ultimately impossible to obtain.

I see that they fell willingly and openly, but instead of allowing Chaos to affect them, they are operating to tear the current Imperium apart and allow Chaos to finally destroy Humanity as Humanity is nothing but a tool for Chaos.

Its a self-destructive perception of Humanity that Humanity is its own ultimate downfall and only by destroying it can Chaos be defeated as Humanity is a Weapon of Chaos. This of course is my own interpretation.

CULCHAIN
30-07-2008, 20:31
not everyone who works with Chaos has to do what it wants or else. look at Horus and Abbadon both used it as a tool

Slazton
30-07-2008, 20:39
The Alpha Marines see that Chaos will ultimately win and thus are on the 'winning' side and working to bring the Cabal's 'vision' of the future to fruitation.

CULCHAIN
30-07-2008, 21:47
there vision was mankind being wiped out so chaos would die down

Rylanor
31-07-2008, 00:10
I done a lil' research, so I'm recanting.

It's pretty much true. Alpha Legion is on the side of Chaos. They serve Tzeentch.
Alpharius being dead is unlikely, since nobody took no notes.

But now I have more questions, like: Why does the Alpha Legion not have any Magicians or Sorcerers or whatever? Isn't Tzeentch associated with magic? Also, someone mentioned the fact that Alpha Legion doesn't use daemons very often, which I find odd. And they don't live in the Eye of Terror. Crazy!

I blame the Cabal. Stinkin' alien scum... I thought the Alpha Legion was teh secks!

BTW: TheOverlord, thanks for pointing out my mistake... the title is indeed a spoiler. However, maybe next time you are trying to criticize someone, you could lay off the Douche Baggery. Just a thought.

TheOverlord
31-07-2008, 06:57
No, no I don't think I will.

I was about to go into a tirade about how childish being offended with my *critic* was being, but I realized that if you found that infuriating, so much so that you had to resort to childish and truly some amateurish name-calling, anything I might say will cause you to fly into rage and quit the forum... like a particular other I seem to recall a few days back.

So I'll be civil, and I'll take it... like a grown up. Hopefully you too could be one too.

Now see? I'm just going to incite a flaming session because you found what I said to be 'hurtful' or 'rude. So next time you WANT to use name calling to make a point, look to your quote, and wonder if you really deserve to have that under your posts.

Just a thought.

-Eh, this is tiresome. I'd rather cut this off before it starts, so I apologize for being rude, but what can I say, if you found that first remark as being a douche bag you really haven't been around the internet much then.

pookie
31-07-2008, 14:35
not everyone who works with Chaos has to do what it wants or else. look at Horus and Abbadon both used it as a tool

thats wrong tho, you dont use Chaos, they use you, thats the whole point of why Horus was so blind in what he did, the rest now follow Chaos, but dont think for a moment they are the ones in charge, im sure if the Chaos Gods decided ( togethr ) that Abbadon had failed them, then they would Spawn him in a instant, he only survives because the Chaos Gods keep him so.

@ TheOverlord - bad day eh? :angel:

Aranel
31-07-2008, 19:15
Overlord, Rylannor made a simple mistake, theres no need to jump at him for doing something unintentionally. Yes you were right to bring it to his attention, but the post did seem a little pompus and sarcastic. The term ********* was hardly mature and didn't help matters, but if you looking for the source of the ill-mannered posting, you can only look to yourself.

Anyway, another route that hasn't been explored is the scenario of Alpharius being slain by Mr Chief Smurf and Omegon leading the legion in his absence. After reading Legion, it seemed that Omegon was the darker one of the two and after his twins death, the AL descejnded into Chaos.

FlashGordon
31-07-2008, 20:01
In my opinion the Cabal were instruments of Chaos who were 'puppets' of Tzeentch and never knew it. Alpha Legion fell to Chaos willingly because they wanted to bring the 'End' the Cabal had predicted quickly and painlessly, seeing the current Imperium as nothing but a disgrace to the Emperor's visions for Humanity. Plus they also saw the Emperor's Vision as nothing more than an ideal that was ultimately impossible to obtain.

I see that they fell willingly and openly, but instead of allowing Chaos to affect them, they are operating to tear the current Imperium apart and allow Chaos to finally destroy Humanity as Humanity is nothing but a tool for Chaos.

Its a self-destructive perception of Humanity that Humanity is its own ultimate downfall and only by destroying it can Chaos be defeated as Humanity is a Weapon of Chaos. This of course is my own interpretation.

Personally i think the cabal made Alpa legion to turn on the empire because they wanted the imperium to become like it is now and therefore sparing all the alien life out there.

A complete victory of the Emperor and the imperium would wipe out all aliens.

But with a stagnant imperium the aliens could survive(and let the eldar work on their fancy gigantic galactic rune, so they can wake Ynnead).

FlashGordon
31-07-2008, 20:05
No, no I don't think I will.


-Eh, this is tiresome. I'd rather cut this off before it starts, so I apologize for being rude, but what can I say, if you found that first remark as being a douche bag you really haven't been around the internet much then.


Ahaha. So that makes it okay for you then to be at least "a little rude". Lay off man. :)

CELS
01-08-2008, 00:20
I have to agree that this thread name is rather inconsiderate. I went to painstaking lengths not to read any spoilers for Legion untill I had read it, but unfortunately the novel was spoiled for me because others didn't bother hiding their spoilers. It sucks when you have to avoid Warseer completely untill you've read all the latest novels.

With that said - I don't think much logic can be applied to the question of Omegon and Alpharius and their connected souls. This is Dan Abnett and he breaks the rules as quickly as he invents them. He even (Ravenor spoiler)...had a daemon make an untouchable lose his powers. Which is like... setting a void on fire.

I'm personally hoping that Roboute killed Omegon, not Alpharius. Just for the sake of tidyness.

chaos0xomega
01-08-2008, 05:38
errrr.... rylanor.... Alpha Legion don't serve Tzeentch or any other God. They are undivided.

Richter Kless
01-08-2008, 10:28
Chaos can't be used. Chaos uses you.

It's a pretty common theme in fiction, where a bad/good guy tries to use the forces of darkness for his own ends, only to be used by the forces of darkness.

GW carried this over to Chaos. Horus tried to use Chaos to save humanity, but eventuelly became their most powerfull slave.
This is also the reason why radical Inquisitors are most of the time doomed to end at on the pyre.

The Alpha Legion has damned itself like every other legion.