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Sam Spade
04-08-2008, 00:47
Hello,

I was just wondering if all Khrone Beserkers World Eaters or would like Iron Warriors have marines that are Beserkers too?

Thanks,
Jonathan

t-tauri
04-08-2008, 00:51
Moved to background. Title changed.

Lord Inquisitor
04-08-2008, 00:54
Yes, there is some background that the Iron Warriors do indeed have some Bezerkers. In answer, no, there's no reason a Bezerker has to be from the World Eaters. The Black Legion produces its own version of all of the cult troops.

Slazton
04-08-2008, 01:05
Khorne welcomes anyone and everyone into his fold. The World Eaters are the only Legion to fully fall to Khorne, but Bezerkers come from every corner of the Galactic Fold.

So if you created a new Chaos 'Warband' any of those Marines could be a Khorne Bezerker. The assault company of my Screaming Angels Chapter fell alongside their Lord Castius and most embraced Khorne openly as they were able to slaughter quicker and efficently.

Sam Spade
04-08-2008, 01:07
Thanks for all the responses.

So if I were to put them in my IW army could I just use the Khrone Beserker models put out by GW and paint them IW colours or would they paint thier armour red like the WE Beserkers that everyone sees?

Thanks,

Slazton
04-08-2008, 01:12
If you look at the Black Legion Bezerkers, they are painted black in the Legion's color scheme. If you wanted to, you could add some red to the Iron Warriors model and use the IW warriors, or use the Khorne Bezerkers from GW. Heck if you wanted to get 'artsy' use the Iron Warriors models and mix them with the Khorne Bezerker models.

I would just add some red for show or a red wash to over the weapons and armour to show them being 'blooded.'

Malevon
04-08-2008, 01:19
The Black Legion Berserkers pictured in the CSM Codex supposed to be ex-World Eaters.

The Black Legion contains warriors who have sworn loyalty to Abaddon above their former masters.
I guess a non-World Eater marine could become a Berzerker, or a non-Death Guard come become a Plague Marine, but they aren't making new Rubric Marines.

Also, Berzerkers are sort of against Iron Warriors' play style.

Yautja
04-08-2008, 01:25
In the last edition chaos codex i used Iron Warriors with 2 squads of berzerkers, 4 Marine squads, defiler, and 2 predators. I figured once you crack a wall open you have to send men in to exploit the breech. Yes they were Iron Warriors in name only since they couldn't field cult troops.

Slazton
04-08-2008, 01:25
Not true, Malevon. In the Iron Warriors IA and the book Storm of Iron, it is noted at the time of the end of the Seige, they unleash the most blood thirsty of warriors to attack. One of the Marines in the Storm of Iron openly worshipepd Khorne and gave thanks to him and led a unit of the most feared assault warriors.

Iron Warriors are Seige Experts, but once a breech is made, they launch an all out assault. Seems to me, Bezerkers would be a wise choice ;)

Malevon
04-08-2008, 01:27
Okay, Iron Warriors can worship Khorne, but simply worshipping Khorne doesn't make one a Berzerker.

Feor
04-08-2008, 01:30
I think World Eaters are supposed to be the best Berzerkers as they go through lobotomizations and other enhancements to make them even more berzerk than normal, but any warband can have berzerkers.

I did mine in my warband's colours. (white w/ black trim) and then did their shoulderpads and "bunny ears" in red.

Sister_Sin
04-08-2008, 01:33
All World Eaters are Berserkers (these days), not all Berserkers are World Eaters, but all of the Berserkers are of Khorne in one way or another.

Sister Sin

Slazton
04-08-2008, 01:33
Once you start to worship Khorne, its a slippery slope where you either become a Champion or a mindless amdman intent on killing non-stop. Its that simple.

As for Rubric Marines, well to counter another point, GW is coming up with the idea that the spell can be duplicated on a small scale and thats how new Rubric marines are created. See its being opened up slightly as Arhiman and his Cult, thus meaning more than one Librarian/Sorcerer was banished, and they would use their spell to create some more Marines for those interested in bodiless marines.

I don't see it as normal and half explained. Its a hard one to discuss.

Iron Warriors would use whatever they can and if a marine fell to Khorne, he still had his use. See the Legions no longer exist as we once see them. Some Champions may have accepted new things, like I can see Iron Warriors using Nurgle or even prasiing Nurgle because of the added toughness or using Tzeentch for the magical protection. The legions no longer exist as we once knew them children. GW changed that and made more possible fluff wise.

Wodan.BR
04-08-2008, 01:38
In the new codex they say that abbdon recruited some "berzerker surgeons" the guys who make the lobotomy or whatever it is that turns a marine into a raving lunatic.
They say that his surgeons are the only ones as good as the world eaters' but... others may have surgeons to perform the same procedure too

Yautja
04-08-2008, 01:43
In the new codex they say that abbdon recruited some "berzerker surgeons" the guys who make the lobotomy or whatever it is that turns a marine into a raving lunatic.
They say that his surgeons are the only ones as good as the world eaters' but... others may have surgeons to perform the same procedure too


Im sure a surgeon who could turn a marine into a fearless frothing madman would be as usefull as Fabius Bile.

Slazton
04-08-2008, 01:45
Well only the Librarians of the WE were massarced, so I would imagine the Apothecaries who did it beforehand when the Legion was for the Emperor, they would sell their services in exchange for whatever reason they had to serve.

Chaos has use of everyone. I just want to know where the Tech Marines went :p

Feor
04-08-2008, 02:02
Chaos has use of everyone. I just want to know where the Tech Marines went

Obliterators?

Kandarin
04-08-2008, 02:41
Isn't the World Eaters Legion a shattered wreck? There isn't a coherent organization anymore. In the absence of centralized leadership, bands of World Eater berserkers could very well have wound up fighting for any Chaos army, including the Iron Warriors.

Yautja
04-08-2008, 02:49
Isn't the World Eaters Legion a shattered wreck? There isn't a coherent organization anymore. In the absence of centralized leadership, bands of World Eater berserkers could very well have wound up fighting for any Chaos army, including the Iron Warriors.

Or if the leader was strong enough, leading his own warband.

CHOOBER SNIPES
04-08-2008, 03:28
The fluff for my army involves them being a sept of the iron warriors. They are designated linebreakers and so have converted to the worship of Khorne for cc prowess/shedding of blood in close combat.

Herman the Heathen
04-08-2008, 04:25
The fluff for my army involves them being a sept of the iron warriors. They are designated linebreakers and so have converted to the worship of Khorne for cc prowess/shedding of blood in close combat.

This sounds like perfectly acceptable and logical fluff to me.

And the psycho-surgery part, personally I think being "touched" by Khorne would do the trick just as good as any surgeon in turning Berserkers even more...berserk.

slaanghoul
04-08-2008, 05:33
What I want to know is are there Rubric marines that are not TS?

Noise Marines, Berserkers, and Plague marines can be from almost any chapters and fit the fluff. I can see undivided chapters with these mixed force in them such as Black Legion Plague marines or Black Legion's Noise marines for example. I'm not sure how the Rubric marines fall into these. Seems like RM are special and only TS can make them.

Pika_power
04-08-2008, 05:38
The bunny ears beserkers are all WE. The ears are part of the WE armour. You get other khorne worshipers, but they are not beserkers.

Abaddon is able to replicate the rubric of Ahriman on a smaller scale, as is Ahriman and Magus.

olmsted
04-08-2008, 06:07
Not true, Malevon. In the Iron Warriors IA and the book Storm of Iron, it is noted at the time of the end of the Seige, they unleash the most blood thirsty of warriors to attack. One of the Marines in the Storm of Iron openly worshipepd Khorne and gave thanks to him and led a unit of the most feared assault warriors.

Iron Warriors are Seige Experts, but once a breech is made, they launch an all out assault. Seems to me, Bezerkers would be a wise choice ;)

wasnt he also killed by a guards women who was possessed by the demon in his armor? who then made a giant warp hole and sucked the life energy out of everything near by and killed the I.F. liberarian?

Ddraiglais
04-08-2008, 06:15
The IW had bezerkers pre-3.5 codex. Storm of Iron talks about IW bezerkers. Model wise, I'd use bezerker models or bezerker models with normal CSM heads. I would definately paint them boltgun. IW have a history of not embracing Chaos and being even more stand offish from other legions or renegades.

Lord of ???
04-08-2008, 06:54
@ Slaanghoul:

Yes that is correct. The only group to have Rubric Marines are the TS because they were created during the Rubric of Ahriman.

You could probably write up some background for why you have TS marines in your non-TS army. Or you could do a counts as (EG marines who have been badly brain damaged and are kept in action through automation of their brain etc.)

Grimmeth
04-08-2008, 07:57
The Cleaved, mentioned in the CSM Codex, hints that they are an alternative to Rubric Marines, mentioning they have a high threshold for pain and sustaining mortal wounds and still fighting on for victory, which hints at Nurgle or Tzeentch, but then mentions "what remains... in their sealed armour, none can say"

Likely it's deliberately ambiguous, but it at least shows the possbility for non Thousand Son "Rubricesque" CSM.

StormWulfen
04-08-2008, 08:10
as everyone else says any marine may become a berzerker, but not like everyone else says how good would rubric berzerkers be??
also i feild berzerkers in my IW army mainly as front line assault/cannon fodder troops.:chrome:

NOTE: either in the chaos codex or on GW site it mentions that obliterators were often once techmarines.

MagrukWikkid
04-08-2008, 11:40
Is this not quoted in the CSM codex?:

'Not all Berzerkers are World Eaters, but all World Eaters are Berzerkers'

heretics bane
04-08-2008, 13:56
Once you start to worship Khorne, its a slippery slope where you either become a Champion or a mindless amdman intent on killing non-stop. Its that simple.

As for Rubric Marines, well to counter another point, GW is coming up with the idea that the spell can be duplicated on a small scale and thats how new Rubric marines are created. See its being opened up slightly as Arhiman and his Cult, thus meaning more than one Librarian/Sorcerer was banished, and they would use their spell to create some more Marines for those interested in bodiless marines.

I don't see it as normal and half explained. Its a hard one to discuss.

Iron Warriors would use whatever they can and if a marine fell to Khorne, he still had his use. See the Legions no longer exist as we once see them. Some Champions may have accepted new things, like I can see Iron Warriors using Nurgle or even prasiing Nurgle because of the added toughness or using Tzeentch for the magical protection. The legions no longer exist as we once knew them children. GW changed that and made more possible fluff wise.

I hate the new light shed on Khorne its all "we want blood lolze!!11" when he used to be all about martial honour and skill in combat.

So that dosnt automaticly mean your gonna be frothing at the mouth continuously,wielding an axe bigger than a bus and just charging aimlessly into the eniemy.

Theres a short story in the new chaos 'dex about a group of beserkers hiding in a deserted imperial chapel from the incoming artillary.

Nazguire
04-08-2008, 14:30
I hate the new light shed on Khorne its all "we want blood lolze!!11" when he used to be all about martial honour and skill in combat.

So that dosnt automaticly mean your gonna be frothing at the mouth continuously,wielding an axe bigger than a bus and just charging aimlessly into the eniemy.

Theres a short story in the new chaos 'dex about a group of beserkers hiding in a deserted imperial chapel from the incoming artillary.

Well, regardless how brave and bloodthirsty you are, you're still going to realise the a shell bigger then a car will bust you right open.

And for that story there are a dozen other describing their insanity in battle, running straight into the trenches, ignoring dozens of wounds, only to butcher everything in the immediate vicinity and then continue on to victory.

If you're a World Eater Berserker, you are a frothing madman with a chainsword/axe and charging at the enemy. Heck, if you're a Berserker in general you are that too, you just might have a small ounce of common sense since you still have your whole brain. Check out Storm of Iron for what I'm on about.


The Cleaved suggest to me that they are merely Nurgle marked Marines that have been affected by a virus or plague or something similar and have been changed in a different way to Plague Marines (aren't full Plague Marines, are something different). They are certainly painted that way.

Phoenix Blaze
04-08-2008, 14:34
40K doesn't tend to make a point of this, but Fantasy does. People worship Khorne for strength and victory in battle, be that an all out war or just a one on one combat. That doesn't mean they're psychotic killers. They pray for strength of arm and the ability to defeat their opponent.

It's through continous prayer like this and continous battle that it's possible to become a Berserker as you crave for more and more.

And yes, I too am rankled that GW have made Khorne into a frothing looney. The martial honour was pretty cool, and yes an element of blood lust and warmongering is all well and good, but those who worship khorne should still have their senses about them when not in battle. They may twitch a bit and be pretty volatile, but they will have their sane moments.

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 17:00
Okay, Iron Warriors can worship Khorne, but simply worshipping Khorne doesn't make one a Berzerker.
It does when you give into the bloodlust and instead of following orders choose to crash into the enemy lines in pure fury of battle.

Slazton
04-08-2008, 22:34
I hate the new light shed on Khorne its all "we want blood lolze!!11" when he used to be all about martial honour and skill in combat.

So that dosnt automaticly mean your gonna be frothing at the mouth continuously,wielding an axe bigger than a bus and just charging aimlessly into the eniemy.

Theres a short story in the new chaos 'dex about a group of beserkers hiding in a deserted imperial chapel from the incoming artillary.

You are speaking to a Warhammer 40K Chaos Fan since 2nd edition ;). First off, what I said was in general. Khorne Bezerkers are frothing madmen in combat and have no sight of what to do other than shed the blood. That is what it means to serve Khorne as a cultist, not as a Champion or a Lord.

To worship Khorne as a God and to become one of his Champions you see past the whole kill! maim! burn! (even though Kharn is an expection, he's just Khorne's personal toy boy) and seek to kill countless foes and seek greater heights in combat. They relish a real fight where they have to prove their own strength and pride against another worthy foe, however, when its just a gurnt, you laugh as take his head off.

Ben Counter's newest novel, Hammer of Daemons does a wonderful job of portraying Khorne and his followers and Champions. Champions do in fact shed blood adn revel in it and are bloodthirsty, but they also have a warped since of honor and respect, knowing that their ally is their enemy, but only when Khorne deems it so. To them war is a constant thing and to worship Khorne you fall into the endless cycle of war. The Daemon Prince in charge of the planet reconised the cycle and even stated he knew he would be killed by another, but not until that person proved themselves worthy by defeating him in glorious combat.

In my mind worshipping any of the Chaos Gods comes down to your own Will. If you are weak minded or simply love something eg killing, killing and killing with a side order of roasted killing as well, then you are Khorne's blood crazed madman. However, if you kill to prove yourself the strongest and the 'Elite' then you will find more of Khorne's Glory than the baser sense of what a weak minded would seek. The Chaos Gods are deep and based on human emotion, and thus a weak minded would be consumed by that emotion like Nurgle followers consumed with the thoughts that everything is going to die and Slaanesh cultists killing and doing things for excess and pleasures sake, or you find the other roots of the Chaos Gods and seek those. Like seeking more to Khorne than just killing for killing's sake, you kill to porove yourself, to better yourself, you follow Slaanesh to prove your art is the best and you seek the finer points of the art and its workings, you fall deep into Nurgle's grasp because you udnerstand everything must die and will die and by accepting death you can become a bringer of it, bringer of despair and the truth of the world or you could see mroe into Tzeentch other than the basic gifts and seek to give hope to people only to take it away and reveal that the hope they wanted was nothing but a hoax, a hoax they allowed themselves to buy in to.

That is Chaos and its finer points of worshipping. You either just serve the God and thus are consumed by the basic urges of the God, eg mass-pleasure or killing for blood or you become stronger than those emotions and seek to use the Gods and their Gifts to prove something or another.

As for new Rubric Marines, I swear it was mentioned that rogue Sorcerers from Ahriman's orginal Cabal sell their services to other Chaos Commanders and Lords in exchange for whatever and thus some on a smaller scale new Rubric Marines are created. However, these are not Thousand Sons. But it does allow you to introduce them into your warband and keep the colour scheme. Just use your imagination. GW is breaking down the walls of prior fluff and changing stuff to make Chaos more like Chaos. There are no rules, it matters not, and this is what I am accepting and beginning to enjoy.

Nazguire
04-08-2008, 23:57
You are speaking to a Warhammer 40K Chaos Fan since 2nd edition ;). First off, what I said was in general. Khorne Bezerkers are frothing madmen in combat and have no sight of what to do other than shed the blood. That is what it means to serve Khorne as a cultist, not as a Champion or a Lord.

To worship Khorne as a God and to become one of his Champions you see past the whole kill! maim! burn! (even though Kharn is an expection, he's just Khorne's personal toy boy) and seek to kill countless foes and seek greater heights in combat. They relish a real fight where they have to prove their own strength and pride against another worthy foe, however, when its just a gurnt, you laugh as take his head off.

Ben Counter's newest novel, Hammer of Daemons does a wonderful job of portraying Khorne and his followers and Champions. Champions do in fact shed blood adn revel in it and are bloodthirsty, but they also have a warped since of honor and respect, knowing that their ally is their enemy, but only when Khorne deems it so. To them war is a constant thing and to worship Khorne you fall into the endless cycle of war. The Daemon Prince in charge of the planet reconised the cycle and even stated he knew he would be killed by another, but not until that person proved themselves worthy by defeating him in glorious combat.

In my mind worshipping any of the Chaos Gods comes down to your own Will. If you are weak minded or simply love something eg killing, killing and killing with a side order of roasted killing as well, then you are Khorne's blood crazed madman. However, if you kill to prove yourself the strongest and the 'Elite' then you will find more of Khorne's Glory than the baser sense of what a weak minded would seek. The Chaos Gods are deep and based on human emotion, and thus a weak minded would be consumed by that emotion like Nurgle followers consumed with the thoughts that everything is going to die and Slaanesh cultists killing and doing things for excess and pleasures sake, or you find the other roots of the Chaos Gods and seek those. Like seeking more to Khorne than just killing for killing's sake, you kill to porove yourself, to better yourself, you follow Slaanesh to prove your art is the best and you seek the finer points of the art and its workings, you fall deep into Nurgle's grasp because you udnerstand everything must die and will die and by accepting death you can become a bringer of it, bringer of despair and the truth of the world or you could see mroe into Tzeentch other than the basic gifts and seek to give hope to people only to take it away and reveal that the hope they wanted was nothing but a hoax, a hoax they allowed themselves to buy in to.

That is Chaos and its finer points of worshipping. You either just serve the God and thus are consumed by the basic urges of the God, eg mass-pleasure or killing for blood or you become stronger than those emotions and seek to use the Gods and their Gifts to prove something or another.

As for new Rubric Marines, I swear it was mentioned that rogue Sorcerers from Ahriman's orginal Cabal sell their services to other Chaos Commanders and Lords in exchange for whatever and thus some on a smaller scale new Rubric Marines are created. However, these are not Thousand Sons. But it does allow you to introduce them into your warband and keep the colour scheme. Just use your imagination. GW is breaking down the walls of prior fluff and changing stuff to make Chaos more like Chaos. There are no rules, it matters not, and this is what I am accepting and beginning to enjoy.


Even Kharn isn't a complete lunatic. There is a story by William King I believe about Kharn and his twisted sense of a challenge and honour.

Slazton
05-08-2008, 00:00
That was old Dark Imperium fluff backstory where a Slaaneshi Demon tempts him into being its newest slave. He denied it and went on killing. He is a lunatic by normal human standards, but he does say Kill! Maim! Burn! It was actually meant as a loose joke *sigh*.

Vaz84
05-08-2008, 01:22
Fabius Bile could turn a marine into a Berzerker easily, but he's also likely wanna tinker with a dozen other things while the marine is on his table.

World eaters are most prone to "RAWR FOR KHORNE", but anyone can be a Berzerker, Even You!!

So Join The Black Legion TODAY!!
Because The Gods Need
! ! Y O U ! !
<Picture of Abbadon pointing A Finger From Talon>

Nazguire
05-08-2008, 01:25
Fabius Bile could turn a marine into a Berzerker easily, but he's also likely wanna tinker with a dozen other things while the marine is on his table.

World eaters are most prone to "RAWR FOR KHORNE", but anyone can be a Berzerker, Even You!!

So Join The Black Legion TODAY!!
Because The Gods Need
! ! Y O U ! !
<Picture of Abbadon pointing A Finger From Talon>


Why did a mental image of Abaddon singing 'Girls on Film' come into my mind just then?