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Captain Frankus
04-08-2008, 14:03
If humans are so busy working all the time, do they get married? If so how, and would they have a child? Because the woman wouldn't be able to work well. Thoughts?

heretics bane
04-08-2008, 14:13
mmh its the same as i would be today except theyd be marryied in the church of the divine emperor.

More babies=more soilders

Koryphaus
04-08-2008, 14:21
Basically, they'd do it in the manner of their homeworld. Some places would have all marriages on holy days, others would be like ours (take holiday time for your honeymoon).

So if Planet Igloo says you get 15 minutes out of the factory for your wedding and honeymoon, then you'd be married and back at work within 15 minutes. Granted thats a stupidly extreme example, but I'm sure you get my meaning.

Nazguire
04-08-2008, 14:25
Basically, they'd do it in the manner of their homeworld. Some places would have all marriages on holy days, others would be like ours (take holiday time for your honeymoon).

So if Planet Igloo says you get 15 minutes out of the factory for your wedding and honeymoon, then you'd be married and back at work within 15 minutes. Granted thats a stupidly extreme example, but I'm sure you get my meaning.


I'm sure on Vostroya that would be the extent of it too, considering their utter zealous devotion to building materials for the Firstborn and the Imperium as a whole. :skull:

Sikkukkut
04-08-2008, 14:26
As observed in another thread, the idea of hours and hours of "free time" in the day, not to mention actual days off in the week, is not exactly some sort of natural law: it's actually a pretty recent artefact of our own times and society (and it's not too far out of living memory when the idea that workers had a right to only work eight hours in order to have home time was considered pretty damned radical).

Point is, history is full of societies in which people worked jobs and hours that would look insane and backbreaking to us, and still seemed to manage to reproduce themselves OK. There might be shift systems, restrictions on how many people from one family can work, creches where the littlies learn inspirational little rhymes about the God-Emperor and the glory of duty while their parents toil in the foundries and the manufactoria, social structures that allow for extended families so that the actual workforce has a long "tail" of support workers and so on. There are plenty of options, and each world (and each community within a world) will have evolved its own arrangements.

Fire Harte
04-08-2008, 14:59
Actually, most vostroyan men 'Plant their seed' the night before they leave Vostroya for battle, (they are conscripted I think) as stated in Rebel Winter.

Sai-Lauren
04-08-2008, 15:30
If humans are so busy working all the time, do they get married? If so how, and would they have a child? Because the woman wouldn't be able to work well. Thoughts?

Well, IMO the answer is that they're not busy working all the time as the fluff in the rule book states - no society could exist like that, even if only because the workers would be so tired and unable to concentrate that their work would be so low a quality as to be worthless, and "work for the glory of the emperor" only goes so far, sooner or later you'll get strikes and riots, and you'll wind up spending more resources on keeping worlds quiet and productive than you're actually getting from them. (But I'm also part way through one of my essays - Media and Entertainment in the Imperium - which I'll probably post at some point, so I would think that. :)

That's not to say people don't do 12-14 hour shifts, commute an hour home on crowded mass transport vehicles, eat dinner, go to sleep, then get up again the next morning, get ready and commute an hour back to work for another 12-14 hour shift. But so long as they get some salary (which is then taxed) and some free time (most of which they are "encouraged" to spend in the local church praying), and have sufficient distractions to keep the population's minds on other things, then everyone's happy (or they think they are at least) and the world produces everything it should.

Or, to quote Mark Knopfler...


They warn you about the enemy, they keep you deaf and blind.
They want to sap your energy, incarcerate your mind.
Give you Rule Britannia, gassy beer, Page 3,
Two weeks in Espana and Sunday stripteese.

Col. Tartleton
04-08-2008, 16:00
The Imperium is at worst only slightly worse than the 1800s mills. Most planets would have far more layed back work, like agriworlds, and some may be more socially advanced than ours today. Every culture in human history probably has some equivalent. So Vostroyans only work as hard as the people they're based on.

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 17:13
Wonder if Terra is like Las Vegas, filled with little chapels and churches where people come to get married, under the eyes of the Immortal Emperor. What could be more romantic to Imperial citizens?

Burnthem
04-08-2008, 18:00
There a million worlds in the imperium, with countless cultures and civilizations, some will work 300 hours a (local) week and not even heard of marriage, others will never ever work and spend all day doing whatever the hell they like.

The 40K universe is so frickin' HUGE that you cannot possibly generalise anything. including - do people get married?

El_Machinae
04-08-2008, 19:04
We always find time to make babies. :D

As well, most planetary govenors are planning on multi-generational reigns, and so they recognise the need for some population continuity.

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 20:44
And lets not forget that aren't the Sisters like the brides of the Emperor or something, so certainly there's a concept of mariage or coupling or what ever in the Imperium. It's like one of the oldest things in religions or something. Pretty much everyone has some sort of a concept of pairing two people or something. Surely even the religion of the IoM has such concepts.

chaos0xomega
04-08-2008, 21:59
I'm sure that more than a fair few worlds in the Imperium have something similar to Nazi-Germany-era "Lebensraum baby" propaganda going on. I.E. if you've been deemed strong and fit by the local Magos Biologis, you have free reign to plant your seed as many times you like with as many other members of the same social-class as you can. Considering all the other social darwinist type propaganda...

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 22:30
Now we're going to the Tau area. To the Imperium, what the dumb masses do is non of their concern. They're trying to run a galaxy wide empire, so in that scale the bed practices of some lvl. 3 factory security person and a coffee shop waitress.

Lotan
04-08-2008, 22:54
What about speed mating!? When your number comes up in the munitorum factory you go to a conference hall and speak for 3 minutes with 10 people. At the end you chose a person that you wanna mate with and if they matched you, you go to a room and copulate, if she gets pregnant she's taken care of by the Imperium while the men go back to work! Half the babies goto the munitorum half to the schola progenium.

Problem solved, infact I might try this in my town and see how it goes down! hehehe

PondaNagura
04-08-2008, 23:31
why does everyone keep thinking all imperial worlds are factory worlds, or agri-worlds for the Imperium...it really depends on the local culture, heck most worlds are self-reliant or at least system reliant, unless they produce something on a far more grand scale for the great whole of imperial society. as long as they behave themselves, contribute whatever meager tithe the Imperium demands of them...they go by whatever. there might be formal western marriages, mass ceremonies where hundreds to thousands get paired up...then again it could be something similar to 'well i think i knocked you up, i guess we're a family now, or feral worlds of clubbing the other guy/gal while they aren't looking and making off with the desired mate'.
in all actuality it would probably be cheaper for factory worlds to use servitors than free-thinking citizens who might voice their discontent in a massed public display.

Lt.Bradford
05-08-2008, 03:01
I get the feeling that some people are confused about the fact that the Imperium is not 100% hard working, big brother dystopian worlds. Some are rather like, some are like Middle Age Europe, and some are like Vostroya.

IIRC, there is something about how Cadian women being required to have children during their service.

The Imperium also doesn't decide who or what (well, nevermind that one) you marry as long as it is not some daemon. They aren't like the "You do what Big bro... erm Etherials say."

MrBigMr
05-08-2008, 03:09
Yup. Sometimes the grimdark gets the best of people and they buy a little too much into the whole catch phrase of the universe. There are worlds that haven't seen war in centuries, some might not even know they're part of the Imperium since they're at the ass end of space and some pencil pusher on Terra forgot to carry the one. Do you see the Imperium dictating what the gangs of Necromunda do? Do they spend their entire lives slaving in factories and some voice from high above tells them who to have sex with? No, I don't think so.

chaos0xomega
05-08-2008, 04:35
Actually it's more likely they don't know their part of the Imperium because their that uneducated and unaware that something "larger" than the planetary/system wide government even exists.

Lots of instances of that in the fluff actually.

Tommygun
05-08-2008, 04:52
Well if you think about the fact that the human population in the gallaxy is in the hundreds of billions, maybe a trillion, then they are mating on a massive scale.
You could have a scenario on some worlds, like the book 1984, where marriage and children are like jury duty.
Your basically assigned a mate and told to supply the state with children.

Nazguire
05-08-2008, 05:08
The idea on fortress worlds of breeding pens where a massive, multi-wombed servitor that constantly pumps out babies whilst simultaneously being impregnated with streams of sperm and ovarian eggs is, whilst a strange idea, a very realistic idea considering other ideas that the Imperium has used in the past.

A multi wombed, constantly pregnant and in labour at the same time ( ! ) servitor could very well be your mother in 40k.

Nice.

Tommygun
05-08-2008, 05:24
The idea on fortress worlds of breeding pens where a massive, multi-wombed servitor that constantly pumps out babies whilst simultaneously being impregnated with streams of sperm and ovarian eggs is, whilst a strange idea, a very realistic idea considering other ideas that the Imperium has used in the past.

A multi wombed, constantly pregnant and in labour at the same time ( ! ) servitor could very well be your mother in 40k.

Nice.

I knew a guy that had 18 siblings, so they are here right now.

Nazguire
05-08-2008, 05:41
I knew a guy that had 18 siblings, so they are here right now.


....

Does their mother have a grossly extended belly, is ten feet tall, take up the space of a small house, have stupid amount of tubes going in and out of her body like shoe laces, multiple cybernetics, her bone structure replaced with titanium because of the constant stress and is utterly brain dead?

If so, I'm calling the cops.

Quakerman77
05-08-2008, 07:06
Yes they marry, even on hive worlds. Case in point: Gol Kolea (Gaunts Ghosts). He worked as a miner in Vervunhive and (before the war) had a wife and two kids.

Sai-Lauren
05-08-2008, 14:22
The idea on fortress worlds of breeding pens where a massive, multi-wombed servitor that constantly pumps out babies whilst simultaneously being impregnated with streams of sperm and ovarian eggs is, whilst a strange idea, a very realistic idea considering other ideas that the Imperium has used in the past.

A multi wombed, constantly pregnant and in labour at the same time ( ! ) servitor could very well be your mother in 40k.

Isn't that supposed to be the case for Krieg?

Actually, with the surface environment on Krieg, I can easily see all women getting one (or maybe both) of their ovaries removed when they reach maturity (and pass certain physical checks), to prevent them being overly affected by the radiation and chemical fallout (presumably they also spend most of their childhood below ground to protect them). The ovaries then get treated with hormones to cause them to hyperovulate and release the ova, which are then passed into the system to be mixed with that days sperm donations (or maybe the men lose one or both testes, which are placed in a support medium to maintain them and the resultant outflow gets mixed up), or are frozen in case of future need.

And ex vitro pregnancy is probably within our reach now, and I'm kind of surprised no one's tried it with a pig or something to prove it can be done.
All you really need is a medium for the fertilised egg to implant into, a nutrient/hormone source on the other side, a stable temperature and no one shaking the jar too much.

And if both genders lose their reproductive organs, and are essentially rendered sterile, it would explain why they're all so ready to die in battle - nothing left worth living for. :D

Adra
05-08-2008, 15:52
An imperium of a million worlds. Just remember that. So think of every system of union between people we have on earth and add to that every fictional one you can think of.

So there could be marrage for love between couples, Homosexual unions, Multiple partners, Arranged marrage, Mail order partners, Curch/politicaly organised unions, genetic matches, breeder individuals, custom vat grown partners, state ordered breeding, forced sterility unitl specific point in time, state supported assasination of parterns to claim their mate, or maybe even a society that bleeds out love, lust and sexual desire through drugs to increase focus and productivity and just clones its populus.....basicly anything you can think of has a place.

Col. Tartleton
05-08-2008, 17:10
ya I mean the average imperial world is probably a nicer place than ours. Its the bad ones that come up mostly in the fluff cause they're of strategic value. People wouldn't bother waging a superwar to capture our planet. A million guardsman and support would get it done. Its the Hive, Forge, and Agri worlds that are talked about because they are of use to the person who controls them. We live on a subsistence world. Our planet makes a little more stuff than we need in some areas and not enough in others (like food) so we aren't of strategic value like most 40k worlds aren't.

chaos0xomega
05-08-2008, 18:02
An imperium of a million worlds. Just remember that. So think of every system of union between people we have on earth and add to that every fictional one you can think of.

So there could be marrage for love between couples, Homosexual unions, Multiple partners, Arranged marrage, Mail order partners, Curch/politicaly organised unions, genetic matches, breeder individuals, custom vat grown partners, state ordered breeding, forced sterility unitl specific point in time, state supported assasination of parterns to claim their mate, or maybe even a society that bleeds out love, lust and sexual desire through drugs to increase focus and productivity and just clones its populus.....basicly anything you can think of has a place.

I don't think you'd see homosexual unions in the Imperium. The general feel about the Imperium regarding evolution and natural selection is that of the social darwinists, and breeding is that of the Fascists and Nazi's. Homosexual union would not result in the continuation of a bloodline and the spreading of humanity, which is greatly encouraged by the Imperium.


Our planet makes a little more stuff than we need in some areas and not enough in others (like food) so we aren't of strategic value like most 40K worlds aren't.

A lot of countries on this planet pay their farmers and the like to produce less than they can. This planet can probably produce a hell of a lot more than we are producing right now.

tsutek
05-08-2008, 18:18
multi-womb servitourettez? Too much H.R.Giger for my tasteh.. You make it sound like they're skavens or something (?)

MrBigMr
05-08-2008, 21:08
Wasn't the servitor thingy forbidden? Ergo, Imperial worlds don't do it, or at least not in large numbers. I wonder if some worlds have Primae Noctis in affect.

Burnthem
05-08-2008, 21:34
An imperium of a million worlds. Just remember that. So think of every system of union between people we have on earth and add to that every fictional one you can think of.

QFT. This is 40K, it is impossible to generalise about anything, the fluff describes the galaxy as being far, far too varied to even start trying to categorise things.

baphomael
05-08-2008, 22:13
Do you see the Imperium dictating what the gangs of Necromunda do?

To be fair, the Imperium probably doesnt care about such gang activity unless it causes greater disruption. As far as Necromunda goes, the majority of gangs hail from feuding industrial houses (Orlock, Van Saar etc). The gang violence stems from fighting over production rights, contracts and the like - as if mafia families were legal entities and their "illegal" products were bought by the state. The Adeptus Terra probably views it as 'healthy competition'.





Anyways, I think people are drawing too much into exactly how 'omnipresent' the Imperium is. The Imperium works a lot like a feudal society. As long as the king gets his tithes, he lets his underlings run their fiefs run themselves fairly autonomously (within reason, of course they all have to be good little church goers and such). The Imperium actually demands little outside of its tithes, 'spiritual laws' and state-religion. Its up to individual planetary governors to do the rest - hence the wild variance in culture and society. As long as the numbers add up, its all good.

MrBigMr
05-08-2008, 22:24
Yeah, but even goodfellas get married and have kids, and I so far I haven't seen any fluff about some Imperial doctrine of "hey, you two, have sex dammit" or "We'll take your DNA and personalities, send it to Terra where in the laboratories they see if you're a perfect match and after that you might have the ability to get married."

Just like the Imperium doesn't care about things like gang violence as long as they planet meets the target production rates, they don't care about what slot the unit is inserted. Local goverment, governor, her husband or something like that might mind, but do people really think there's some big building on Terra where they match and mate people? Deparmento Sextorium, for all your needs.

Adra
05-08-2008, 23:44
I don't think you'd see homosexual unions in the Imperium. The general feel about the Imperium regarding evolution and natural selection is that of the social darwinists, and breeding is that of the Fascists and Nazi's. Homosexual union would not result in the continuation of a bloodline and the spreading of humanity, which is greatly encouraged by the Imperium.

I love it. All the horrible unions i mentioned but the imperium will have issue with homosexuality. Again, planet by planet. Im sure their are some planets that outlaw same sex unions and some that except it. The imperium seems silent on this issue...

...maybe because the Emperor created his sons in a lab and not through natural means. Cant see much argument in the 'only having sex to create life' as it didnt seem to stop Him. Again, planet to planet differences, not a sweeping average imperium wide.

chaos0xomega
06-08-2008, 00:07
I don't thin your common Imperial citizen would have access to the genetic engineering equipment required to make 2 homosexual men or women children.

MrBigMr
06-08-2008, 00:17
I love it. All the horrible unions i mentioned but the imperium will have issue with homosexuality. Again, planet by planet. Im sure their are some planets that outlaw same sex unions and some that except it. The imperium seems silent on this issue...
Yeah, I think the Imperium has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, but most certainly it's a general taboo and only few places dare to allow it in public while others might even have being gay marked down as a crime.


...maybe because the Emperor created his sons in a lab and not through natural means. Cant see much argument in the 'only having sex to create life' as it didnt seem to stop Him. Again, planet to planet differences, not a sweeping average imperium wide.
God didn't have sex to create Adam and Eve and I don't remember anyone using that as an argument in pro-gay debates. Emperor is the god of the people in the Imperium, so to question Him is to question your god and that just won't fly.


I don't thin your common Imperial citizen would have access to the genetic engineering equipment required to make 2 homosexual men or women children.
Reminds me of a spoof episode of Just Shoot Me! in which everyone died apart from two guys.
"Well, it seems its up to us to repopulate the earth."
"Ok... But no gay stuff."

bassmasterliam
06-08-2008, 00:52
I'm sure that more than a fair few worlds in the Imperium have something similar to Nazi-Germany-era "Lebensraum baby" .

Ummm you do know that Lebensraum means living space right? living space baby doesn't really make sense.

chaos0xomega
06-08-2008, 05:26
Oh snap, good catch, I meant Lbensborn babies, not Lebensraum :rolleyes:

Sai-Lauren
06-08-2008, 08:12
QFT. This is 40K, it is impossible to generalise about anything, the Fluff describes the galaxy as being far, far too varied to even start trying to categorise things.

And what does the fluff then go off and do - with comments like everyone works flat out until they collapse from exhaustion in the new rule book :angel:

MrBigMr
06-08-2008, 08:25
It's just grimdark once again trumping any sense of reasoning.

Adra
06-08-2008, 09:11
Yeah, I think the Imperium has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, but most certainly it's a general taboo and only few places dare to allow it in public while others might even have being gay marked down as a crime.

Of course we all know that games workshop dont belive in sex and never get into much info on anything as scary as coitus, but I guess your right about the dont ask dont tell. Im sure their are plenty of planets who except it, some that reject it, and maybe even some that encourage it. Maybe a planet where love only exists between same sex partners and male and female unions are only for reproduction. Again anything is possible. I supose your correct in saying that it would be a taboo more of the time just because alot of imperial worlds are a bit backward and prone to ignorance.


God didn't have sex to create Adam and Eve and I don't remember anyone using that as an argument in pro-gay debates. Emperor is the god of the people in the Imperium, so to question Him is to question your god and that just won't fly.

No your right of course, it was a flimsy argument at best. What i meant was that in terms of the Imperiual faith homosexuality may be unmentioned and justified. It could go either way. The Emperor didnt seem to leave any scripture of his own as he didnt see himself as a god. All they have is the interpretation of the faith by holy men and that can go anyway it likes. One can say that mankind must shy away from homosexuality, but another could say that the emperor loved all equaly, so should our love be equal to all. Not so much questioning the Emperor, but maybe a Holy man could say "He forged the greatest of us with his hands, his gene sons, born of the great knowledge of man and the glory of his endevours. Blessed be His works with flesh and knowledge, the creation of gods outside the mortal works of the body. His love for us everlasting, let our love rise up to be free of the mortal needs and let it shine forth between unions, joined only in joy, as a becon to his glory."

Anything goes really :)

El_Machinae
14-08-2008, 23:52
Ummm you do know that Lebensraum means living space right? living space baby doesn't really make sense.

Have you lived with a baby? A "living space baby" would be an awesome evolutionary leap