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slaanghoul
07-08-2008, 12:59
There is a thread about Eldar helmet going on and it got me thinking about WW1 germany helmet. The kind that looks like Deathguard (like nazi helmet with a solo spike on top)

I know German are some of the best designer and they really put form and function to the test so I know there must be a reason for the spike. Why the spike on top. I'm not talking about Deathguard, I'm talking about WW1 spike helmet. I know this is not the right form, but there are so many military equipment expert out there that this is the place for me to ask.

Is it use as a last resort weapon? Protection from enemy trying to jump on top of you from above? As a pot to collect rain water ( spike it on the ground and the helmet never tip over as it collect rain)?

Thanks

Charax
07-08-2008, 13:02
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube

Bregalad
07-08-2008, 13:13
Germany in WW1 had two types of helmets:

1.) The "Pickelhaube" ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube , http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/ ) with the spike on top, but otherwise totally different from WW2 Wehrmacht helmets. It was developed for the Prussian army in 1942, made of compressed leather. The spike was meant to deflect sabre hits to the head. Spikes and rims on the top of the helmet were common at that time, but disappeared later with sabres becoming uncommon. This also happened in Germany during WW1, when the Pickelhaube was replaced by the second type of helmets.

2.) The second type are larger variants of what much later became the WW2 Wehrmacht helmets. The lower neck was to protect a larger part from the head than the British or French helmets (or the former Pickelhaube). And it was made of steel of course, not compressed leather.

x-esiv-4c
07-08-2008, 13:17
Saber deflection aside (punnage!) beating someone to death with your own spiked helmet would be pretty cool though.

Bregalad
07-08-2008, 13:25
Actually, British soldiers sometimes used their tommy helmet's rim as a close combat weapon.

x-esiv-4c
07-08-2008, 13:42
Much like Oddjob from James Bond?

Phoenix Blaze
07-08-2008, 14:49
I'd like to briefly point out that it's not exclusive to Death Guard, it's just one of the designs of the MK II Crusade armour. Some are seen with spikes, others are not.

Iron Warriors are also generally seen in MK II helemts, only without the top spike.


Yes...I know far more about 40K than I do about the real world.....:(

slaanghoul
07-08-2008, 14:53
Germany in WW1 had two types of helmets:

1.) The "Pickelhaube" ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube , http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/ ) with the spike on top, but otherwise totally different from WW2 Wehrmacht helmets. It was developed for the Prussian army in 1942, made of compressed leather. The spike was meant to deflect sabre hits to the head. Spikes and rims on the top of the helmet were common at that time, but disappeared later with sabres becoming uncommon. This also happened in Germany during WW1, when the Pickelhaube was replaced by the second type of helmets.

2.) The second type are larger variants of what much later became the WW2 Wehrmacht helmets. The lower neck was to protect a larger part from the head than the British or French helmets (or the former Pickelhaube). And it was made of steel of course, not compressed leather.

I just read the wiki page and i didn't see anything about the saber deflection. All I saw were the history, horsetail on top, and the fluff about WW1 being removable so they can't be spotted in Trench warfare.

Bregalad
07-08-2008, 21:32
It is mentioned in the German wiki page I linked to, not in the English wiki page that was posted while I typed.

PondaNagura
07-08-2008, 21:51
well it was an age of nationalism...not so much saber-deflection or as a weapon, but more as a military fashion statement; when you could say the words 'military' and 'fashion' in the same sentence and get a brisk pat on the shoulder, rather than a cocked eyebrow and rifle butt to the face.
fyi they weren't nazis at that point.

as for the deathguards: it was to cement the visual effect that these guys are diehard trench-like warfare aesthetic. what with the spiked helmets, gas masks, and the use of gas grenades and such back in 2nd ed, it built character/atmosphere for these guys to fight in.

slaanghoul
08-08-2008, 02:14
well it was an age of nationalism...not so much saber-deflection or as a weapon, but more as a military fashion statement; when you could say the words 'military' and 'fashion' in the same sentence and get a brisk pat on the shoulder, rather than a cocked eyebrow and rifle butt to the face.
fyi they weren't nazis at that point.

as for the deathguards: it was to cement the visual effect that these guys are diehard trench-like warfare aesthetic. what with the spiked helmets, gas masks, and the use of gas grenades and such back in 2nd ed, it built character/atmosphere for these guys to fight in.

Ever watch Hogen's heroes, those nazi have spiked helmet in the end credit.

Lars Porsenna
08-08-2008, 02:32
I think trying to base history on what you see in "Hogan's Heroes" is ultimately pointless...

Damon.

chaos0xomega
08-08-2008, 03:46
Hogan's Heroes lol. I'm pretty sure the wearing of the Pickelhaubes in the end credits was actually a joke...

Anyway, the Pickelhaube spike was mostly just there for decoration, it really didn't serve very much purpose (yes saber deflection was a potential side effect of having it, but I don't think that use came up very often, do you?). Also the style of the spike varied depending on rank/your unit. Some were more decorative than others.

afshinbb
08-08-2008, 03:54
spike deflection? seems like it would only make greater the impact for concussions.

slaanghoul
08-08-2008, 05:31
I think trying to base history on what you see in "Hogan's Heroes" is ultimately pointless...

Damon.

:) it was a joke