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Zeddicus
07-08-2008, 18:47
Which planet is most heavily defensed, Mars or Terra? My own guess would have been Mars. Terra is the most important planet in the Imperium, but Mars is the home of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and that should mean that they have some pretty big guns. So, which one is it, if we cut off all support from that planet (otherwise, Terra would be supported by Mars)?

Norminator
07-08-2008, 18:50
I'd say Terra, because they have Luna orbiting it. Luna has variably been described as covered entirely in guns and ship launch bays - so we're probably talking the biggest offensive space station in the galaxy. Whilst I'm sure Phobos and Diemos have their share of weaponry, their massive size differernce with Luna would suggest to me that they'd pack a lot less of a punch.

Effectively, Terra is protected twice over.

Mad Jack Deacon
07-08-2008, 18:55
The question is probably moot. IIRC there is an entire battlefleet (Battlefleet Solar) stationed within the Terran solar system. So the second you jumped into threat range of the system, you're going to have probably the best Battlefleet in the Imperium in your face.

In addtion, don't forget that there is an entire SM chapter stationed on Titan. Even though the GK are better equipped to handle a Chaos Demon incursion, I'd hate to see the havoc that a Terminator unit could do if it teleported into the heart of an attacking ship.

And while the Terran moon has been pretty much turned into a rearming/refueling and defensive station for Battlefleet Solar and any traffic bound for Terra, anything powerful enough to get through the outer pickets of the system and attack Mars with any sort of superiority is probably going to continue on and steamroll over Terra.

PondaNagura
07-08-2008, 19:35
i really don't view either planet as a separate entity when it comes to the system defenses.
oe is the administrative/cradleworld of the humanity, while the other provides all the tech/support that allows the imperium to physically run. i figure whatever defenses there are, are continuous through the sol system. gun stations, defense fleets, constant escort ships, floating defense checkpoints, probably equally distributed from Jupiter down to Sol.

Grimbad
07-08-2008, 19:38
And while the Terran moon has been pretty much turned into a rearming/refueling and defensive station for Battlefleet Solar and any traffic bound for Terra, anything powerful enough to get through the outer pickets of the system and attack Mars with any sort of superiority is probably going to continue on and steamroll over Terra.


...assuming they attack from the solar plane's edge at a time of year where Mars is between them and Terra. The planets can't just line up to form a wall. (Would be cool if Mars had an engine that let it move though...)

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
07-08-2008, 19:46
I bet it does. They also have giant sentient space flyswatters, Irony Cannons, enormous effigies of Anwar Sawdat and rending assault 4 sharks. And Jesus. Only his mouth shoots bees. Yeah.

Mad Jack Deacon
07-08-2008, 20:46
...assuming they attack from the solar plane's edge at a time of year where Mars is between them and Terra. The planets can't just line up to form a wall. (Would be cool if Mars had an engine that let it move though...)

It would be cool if Mars had something like that, but even if a force jumped into the Solar system below the plane of orbit, it's still have to jump into the system well away from Sol's gravity well, which would still put it on the outskirts of the system, giving the defenders adequate time to react.

If you have a commander that ballsy enough to try to jump a force deep enough into a system that is as well defended as Terra, I'd consider having his battle plan reviewed and revised. You're almost guaranteed to lose part of your force in planetary gravity wells or to solar debris, not to mention that it's probably the busiest system in the Imperium. For sheer chaos alone it might be worth it, but unless you're able to jump the entire CSM population into the heart of the system, you're gonna be outnumbered AND surrounded.

I can't imagine that it would work any better than materializing in the middle of the Ft. Knox gold repository, and expecting to be able to fight your way out again.

Mad Jack Deacon
07-08-2008, 20:47
I bet it does. They also have giant sentient space flyswatters, Irony Cannons, enormous effigies of Anwar Sawdat and rending assault 4 sharks. And Jesus. Only his mouth shoots bees. Yeah.

Don't forget the trained Void Whales with frikkin' laser beams...

Talos
07-08-2008, 20:55
The Necrons where able to get past all the defenses and get to mars

Norminator
07-08-2008, 20:57
The Necrons where able to get past all the defenses and get to mars

Yes, where they then did bugger all and got vapourised.

Whilst the Necron evasion was undoubtably impressive, as soon as any fleet stood still enough to shoot something it'd be swatted out of the sky.

Does anyone know what the system defences were like at the time of the Heresy? Mars of course was out of the picture due to the Ad Mech civil war, but how did Horus deal with Luna and the Terran defences?

heretics bane
07-08-2008, 21:04
If you attack terra and look as though youll make it to the holysoil itself your gonna attract every space marine chapter and every guard regiment in the imperium down on you @$* effectivly.

Not too mention all the titan legions on mars followed by legions of skitarii and untold amounts of ancient weaponry they've got knocking about the place.

@Norminator-he eventualy took out the lunar defenses but not after having a sizable portion of his fleet damaged or destroyed befor ehe over ran it.

The Anarchist
07-08-2008, 21:30
I think when it comes to sheer number of defenses and capabilities Mars is better armed. my reasoning for this is it has titan legions on it, and the alrgest titan building facitlties of any planet in the imperium. this is then backed up with the largest contingent of the best armed/equiped/modified (non-space marines) in the Imperium's arsenal; that of the Skittarii legions. and then lets not forget any space marines there training to be tech marines, and any other toys they have laying about, like all the crazy super weapons that are so dangerous as to ahve been outlawed by the Emperor.
on the other hand Terra has the hardcore adeptus custodes, and a few space marines and all the navigators and varrious nobles of the imperiums personal gaurds. thing is though it just dosnt add up to what the Mars forces have.

however in Terra's deffence it does ahve the single best space defence ever built by man the lunar base, and a fortress that withstood the powers of 8 6 chaos legions led by their primarchs and plenty of deamons. so imperial palace is a point in Terra's defence. as for lunar it is entirely cover in guns, cannons and everything else the AD-MECH could think of in the wake of the HH, except for some areas for building ships for the Fleet Solar. so if you get close enough to Terra landing troops is going to be nigh impossible, even for the suicidal.

however i think its better to look at the Terran Solar System as one beacause the system is defended by the fleet Solar which is backed by all the space defences that Mars could msuter to make it the msot defended fleet in all the Imperium. so i would say it is jsut one supremly defended system that is all interlinked. this to me reminds me of a sort of "which is the better defended place the UK or british isles. made me laugh.





The Necrons where able to get past all the defenses and get to mars

jsut to answer the point made about the Necrons this is beacuase due to their technology they were able bypass the typical measures needed to get to the system. as such they had time to land forces before the forces could react, however getting to Terra through conventional means would mean getting shot to peices before getting anywhere near to Terra. also dont forget that when the crons did get on to mars they were destroyed fairly quickly. so yes they did get past all the defenses of Mars but not through force, but by meerly going hyoer speed right past them and then being willing to suffer the consequences when they did drop out of hyper speed.



just my two cents.

The Anarchist
07-08-2008, 21:39
Yes, where they then did bugger all and got vapourised.

Does anyone know what the system defences were like at the time of the Heresy? Mars of course was out of the picture due to the Ad Mech civil war, but how did Horus deal with Luna and the Terran defences?

from what the WD "assult on the Emperoros palace" article from a while back said the defenses of the Terran solar system were good but nothing compared to what they are nowadays. and then to put it all in perspective its not as if much can stand before 6 chaos legions! and add that to the fact it wasn't jsut mars that was having difficulties due to the cival war, almost every single planet and defence point in the imperium was in the throes of cival strife. it was following the HH that the Terran system went from well defended to the best defended system in the Imperium. and it was under the codex astartes that the space fleets of the segmentums were organised. so only after the HH did the solar system have the largest and best equipped space fleet ever jsut to defenend one solar system.

again, jsut my two cents.

Kandarin
08-08-2008, 04:31
The Necrons where able to get past all the defenses and get to mars

Necron ships' means of transportation means they're great at evading any and all attacks. But if they want to fire, land, or otherwise actually do anything, they have to stop and make themselves vulnerable.

ryaryasmith
08-08-2008, 05:08
Also don't forget that a nice sized chunk of the Imperial Fist Chapter and Fleet are almost always in the system as well which may include the Phalanx itself.:evilgrin::evilgrin:

WrYpoRrY
08-08-2008, 08:17
On Mars, they've got:
Imperator Titans, Warlord Titans, and dog Titans,
Ordinatus Machines, which are huge tanks with sonic weapons designed to turn mountains into dust,and other weapons which are too big to fit on Titans. COUNTLESS numbers of servitor warriors and Skitarii, which are mindless cyborgs who don't run away or disobey orders, and they have servo arms with massive weapons.

As the Word Bearers found out, The Adeptus Mechanicus is not to be taken lightly.

teh_soldier
08-08-2008, 11:04
Don't forget, Mars also has the Psi-Titan Legion to back up the main force in time of need.

Also, where is the fluff about the Necrons landing on Mars? I've heard it referenced, but I've never read it.

Zeddicus
08-08-2008, 11:11
Don't forget, Mars also has the Psi-Titan Legion to back up the main force in time of need.

Never heard of them before, what are they?

Mercer
08-08-2008, 11:44
Also, where is the fluff about the Necrons landing on Mars? I've heard it referenced, but I've never read it.

Its in the Necron codex. I'm not sure if they landed, or crash landed, but either way the Necrons actually touched the red soil of Mars.

Mercer

Griffty
08-08-2008, 11:45
Psychic titans - psionic weaponry and psychic defences, all very hush hush.

Think uglier versions of the eldar warlock titan.

EDIT: 3 ships flew through the mars defenses, one landed under its own power

ChrisMurray
08-08-2008, 12:01
Its in the Necron codex. I'm not sure if they landed, or crash landed, but either way the Necrons actually touched the red soil of Mars.

Mercer


I don't have thecodex on me but if I remember correctly, they landed and actually had a minute inwhich it's hinted they may have done something, but what is unknown (there are many fan theories though searchie is your friend if you want to know more).

I think which planet is most heavily defended is not one that can really be answered as the whole system will be all tied into the defencive plan rather than each individual planet-remember the sol system has Terra, mars and the ship yards at jupiter, not mention the headquarters of the grey knights\inquisition.

El_Machinae
10-08-2008, 14:04
I think that Mars might have a higher density of high-tech toys, but Terra probably has more numbers of everything. Terra probably has superior psychic defenses as well, which on that scale, might mean something.

Adra
10-08-2008, 16:57
What would be scary about both planets is what they have that no one knows about...eep.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
10-08-2008, 22:23
I am surprized no one has mentioned that Terra has...


drum roll please...




The Emperor!!!

He may be a corpse on a chair, but it is through him that the astronomican is still bright. This is all speculation, but I'm sure the deaths of thousands of psykers could be focused into something else if circumstances called for it.

Lothlanathorian
10-08-2008, 23:33
I never thought of that. That is a scary thought. The question, then, is whether the device used to project it could be used as a weapon instead of a beacon. You are attempting to turn a lighthouse into a laser weapon, which is frikkin' cool, but may not work simply because it isn't built to work that way.

Ghost Of Caliban
11-08-2008, 04:02
Psychic titans - psionic weaponry and psychic defences, all very hush hush.

Think uglier versions of the eldar warlock titan.

EDIT: 3 ships flew through the mars defenses, one landed under its own power

which considering the apparently limitless number of crons on every world of the imperium is a dam good average...

olmsted
11-08-2008, 04:20
I'd say Terra, because they have Luna orbiting it. Luna has variably been described as covered entirely in guns and ship launch bays - so we're probably talking the biggest offensive space station in the galaxy. Whilst I'm sure Phobos and Diemos have their share of weaponry, their massive size differernce with Luna would suggest to me that they'd pack a lot less of a punch.

Effectively, Terra is protected twice over.

actually in planetkill (new book) phobos is supposedly closed off due to the annihaltor shield which feed millions of volunteered victims to a demon during the 13th crusade to protect against the planet killer.

CthulhuDalek
11-08-2008, 06:49
Hmmm.

I think that Mars would have a pretty good time defending itself once the enmies got close enough and would fair pretty well on the ground. As ships entered their atmosphere or troops deepstruck etc, they could deal with them.

However, I think Terra would be better defended at a ground level due to the sheer amount of "ground" defenses at the Imperial Palace(which is really what anyone would be after anyway right?)

Luna could also kick some butt.

DarkMatter2
11-08-2008, 07:56
Doesn't REALLY matter. You attack either one of them you will get owned.

I imagine that the entire Sol system is one large impenetrable and interconnected defense grid. In an imperium of a million worlds "in system" distances would be negligible to say the least.

Hrw-Amen
11-08-2008, 10:57
I'd see the whole Sol system as having a pretty integrated defence grid from right out in the furthest reaches inwards. I'd imagine that pretty much every lump of orbiting rock big enough to house it has some sort of defence battery mounted on it regardless of where it is located, probably with Earth, Moon, Mars and Titan being the most heavily defended.

Wasn't there something at the end of the FOTE that spoke about all the rock and minerals hollowed out of the moon being used to create an orbiting space station around the moon that was in fact a continuous loop circling the whole of its globe? I imagine that would present a few weapons platforms. Maybe I'm wrong but I guess that is what is pictured on the front of the BFG rulebook, or at least a similar version built around another planet somewhere in the Gothic sector if not the Moon?

What I'd really like to see, although it probably is beyond the Imperium's resources is for the whole Sol System to be enclosed in a Dyson Sphere, that would be pretty much impregnable I'd of thought?

Norminator
11-08-2008, 11:07
I can imagine asteroids being hijacked to make them separate defence platforms, moved to strategic orbits around the sun.

I think Wolfblade they visited a privately owned asteroid, not sure though.

Battle of the Abyss mentions the Saturnine Fleets, so I think it's reasonably to expect that at least Saturn (and we know Jupiter) have reasonable navel assets themselves.

I also seem to remember something about Pluto being an outer monitoring station that checked traffic, although I have no idea where I recalled that from, so it could well be another sci-fi setting and not 40k.

icegreentea
11-08-2008, 13:52
Wasn't there something at the end of the FOTE that spoke about all the rock and minerals hollowed out of the moon being used to create an orbiting space station around the moon that was in fact a continuous loop circling the whole of its globe? I imagine that would present a few weapons platforms. Maybe I'm wrong but I guess that is what is pictured on the front of the BFG rulebook, or at least a similar version built around another planet somewhere in the Gothic sector if not the Moon?

What I'd really like to see, although it probably is beyond the Imperium's resources is for the whole Sol System to be enclosed in a Dyson Sphere, that would be pretty much impregnable I'd of thought?

There a massive ditch, kilometers wide and deep running the equator of the moon. The ditch is lined with buildings and factories and mines. The material from digging the ditch was put into orbit and constructed in a ring that serves as a shipyard and orbital defense grid. Its from FOTE. There are other orbital shipyards that are giant rings too. Can't pick out any names for now.

Khaine's Messenger
11-08-2008, 20:02
Which planet is most heavily defensed, Mars or Terra?

Considering that the Adepts of Mars went out of their way to erect defenses suitable to protect them from Terra should the Administratum/Ministorum go Stupid again (Age of Apostasy), I think that Mars is at the very least a little more aware of the possibility of being cut off and alone.

But then, I'm a Mechanicum fanboy anyway.