PDA

View Full Version : I like Scourges. (Wish listing)



Getifa Ubazza
10-08-2008, 09:08
I dont even know if i spelt that right. Or even if i spelt, spelt right, But never mind.

I really do like the idea of Scourges in my Dark Eldar army. I cant think of any other army that has this combination of heavy weapon support, with jump packs.

It seems that everyone complains that they are just no good and i was wondering what would fix them.

Oh, i do think they will be better in 5th, than they have been in the last 2 ed's with the new cover saves.

Some ideas i came up with:

Give them the option of taking Blasters, shredders, splinter cannons and a shorter range assault dark lance. This would make them far more useful i feel and would give them an exclusive weapon, that only they could take.

Make them a plastic boxed set of 10 models with at least 2 of each weapon included.

I would say the same for the Reavers, make them fully plastic, with 2 blasters, 2 shredders and a Succubus with agoniser, included in the box. Do them as a box of 5.

Also Hellions weapons should be assault and again plastic.

Include all the options for Warriors in the box. Maybe include 1 of each special/heavy weapon and a Sybarite with agoniser. Do them as a box of 10.

I would also love to see Wyches done in plastic, again a box of 10, that includes at least 1 of each special weapon and wyche weapons. They can be taken as TROOPS in some armies after all.

The Grotesques also need to have at least 10-20 in a unit, they are supposed to be Zombie like after all.

Sorry, but i really want this army and i want it done right. The models are really bad and if any army deserves alot of plastic love, its Dark Eldar. Ive been waiting along time for them to be redone.

Well, ive had my say. Either agree with me or think im crazy, but you have to admit, Dark Eldar need alot of love.

Reaver83
10-08-2008, 09:10
or maybe they should be dropped all together?

Baneboss
10-08-2008, 09:18
Scourges should be able to fire heavy weapons after move and their save needs to be improved. They dont need anything else.

Getifa Ubazza
10-08-2008, 11:02
or maybe they should be dropped all together?But they are a good idea. If we dropped every good idea, just because it doesnt work exactly like we expected, we wouldnt have alot of inventions we do today. GW should simply relook at them and try to get them to work more in line with what they originally intended.


Scourges should be able to fire heavy weapons after move and their save needs to be improved. They dont need anything else.This is what i think they were intended for. I feel they are supposed to be mobile fire support for the Warriors and Wyches. They are supposed to get to a threat and weaken it enough, so that when the Warriors or Wyches get there, they can more easier, deal with it.

I think, part of the problem with Scourges is, we try them a few time, we see that they dont work and change them out for something we know does work. To me, that lacks imagination. I think this is the problem with a lot of 40k units. We look at them on there own and not combined with other units in the list. I feel that Scourges will get a boost in the new Codex and will become very over powered.

yabbadabba
10-08-2008, 11:07
Drop the lance rule (only for scourges).
Can move and fire, but cannot use jump packs and fire.

This does give you a highly mobile firebase, with the ability to use those HW without sacrificing movement or sensibility.

Getifa Ubazza
10-08-2008, 11:24
Drop the lance rule (only for scourges).
Can move and fire, but cannot use jump packs and fire.

This does give you a highly mobile firebase, with the ability to use those HW without sacrificing movement or sensibility.I wouldnt drop the lance rule, as thats what makes a lance, a lance. What i would do is change it slightly. Maybe have it fire at full range if the model doesnt move and half range if it does. That would be simple enough and has been done in other armies. The heavy bolter comes to mind as does the blast master.

Templar Ben
10-08-2008, 11:29
or maybe they should be dropped all together?

With the rest of the line.


I feel that Scourges will get a boost in the new Codex and will become very over powered.

That may well happen but that would not be a good thing. Overpowered means overpowered for their cost. If you have a unit that can move and fire heavy weapons (like Terminators) and can move over terrain (jump troops) then just include that in the cost.

Getifa Ubazza
10-08-2008, 11:44
As i said already. Scourges, with the new cover save rules, are far better than they were. I just hope people give them another try in 5th, before the new codex. I dont want them to become over powered and feel that they are close to how they should be costed, But i feel the main problem is, they are more expensive than other Heavy Support choices, both in points and in money. Plus the one with splinter rifle is separate, so again, added expence.

madden
10-08-2008, 11:52
I've used mine in 5th thyey are kitted with cannons, all round and they rock added togather you get 36"assult 4 weapons even marines underestemate that amount of fire and with all the cover around they last a long time. Onh a side note try out hellions in this ed they work well too.

Getifa Ubazza
10-08-2008, 12:02
I've used mine in 5th thyey are kitted with cannons, all round and they rock added togather you get 36"assult 4 weapons even marines underestemate that amount of fire and with all the cover around they last a long time. Onh a side note try out hellions in this ed they work well too.Im glad they work for you. I havent tried Hellions yet, but will give them a go.

FraustyTheSnowman
10-08-2008, 17:19
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have a copy of the 5th ed rules yet and my dark eldar codex is miA, but aren't jump troops able to move and shoot heavy weapons due to relentless? I don't remember exactly how much scourges are, but seems to me their actualy a darn good unit now in the new rules...

Getifa Ubazza
10-08-2008, 17:22
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have a copy of the 5th ed rules yet and my dark eldar codex is miA, but aren't jump troops able to move and shoot heavy weapons due to relentless? I don't remember exactly how much scourges are, but seems to me their actualy a darn good unit now in the new rules...Thats what ive been saying. With the new rules, people should give them another go.

Woo hoo, 1500 posts and counting.

wizuriel
10-08-2008, 22:07
new to 40k and was thinking of doing dark eldar. briefly looking over the codex and 5th edition rule book though I can't really see who you would take scourgaes over a ravager.

They are both like moble heavy fire thingies but the ravager I would have thought is easier to keep alive, position and use.

Bloodknight
10-08-2008, 22:34
That is pretty much the reason why almost nobody uses Scourges. They are far too costly. Their pointscost was created when the GW guys still made jump troops twice as expensive as the standard warrior (Space Marine 15, Assault Marine about 30, DE Warrior 8, Scourge 16). This has changed a lot since then, currently most jump troops such as Raptors or Assault Marines cost only 1/4 to 1/3 more than the same basic troops.
Scourges were not attractive back then (no jump troop really was), and it has become worse. I haven't used my 10 Scourges in I guess 8 years...

Getifa Ubazza
11-08-2008, 20:39
Would they be worth taking if they were dropped in points, to say 12pts each?

Santiaghoul
11-08-2008, 21:31
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have a copy of the 5th ed rules yet and my dark eldar codex is miA, but aren't jump troops able to move and shoot heavy weapons due to relentless? I don't remember exactly how much scourges are, but seems to me their actualy a darn good unit now in the new rules...


I dont have my DE codex handy, but I dont think Scourges are Jet Packs. I think they are Jump Troops. Jet Packs get the relentless rule, Jump Troops do not.

StormKnight
11-08-2008, 21:53
Scourges are indeed Jump Pack troops. However, making them Jet Pack troops is the obvious and quick fix.

We're planning on playing them that way - I'll post how it goes when we actually play a game.

Getifa Ubazza
11-08-2008, 22:12
I dont have my DE codex handy, but I dont think Scourges are Jet Packs. I think they are Jump Troops. Jet Packs get the relentless rule, Jump Troops do not.Easy mistake to make.

Bloodknight
11-08-2008, 22:21
Scourges are Jump Troops. The concept of jetpacks was not in existance when the DE codex was written, it appeared first with the Tau. :)

Getifa Ubazza
11-08-2008, 22:34
Scourges are Jump Troops. The concept of jetpacks was not in existance when the DE codex was written, it appeared first with the Tau. :)Had man invented the wheel before the Dark Eldar codex or after. It was such a long time ago, im not to sure.:p

yabbadabba
11-08-2008, 22:43
I wouldnt drop the lance rule, as thats what makes a lance, a lance. What i would do is change it slightly. Maybe have it fire at full range if the model doesnt move and half range if it does. That would be simple enough and has been done in other armies. The heavy bolter comes to mind as does the blast master.

I have to disagree. If you give a weapon like that more manouveurability, you have to restrict it's effectivemess to balance.

onnotangu
11-08-2008, 22:50
I have a ton of DE that I have no clue on how to sort into any type of manageble force so I'm just going to wait till the new codex comes to do something with them.

I think there is at least a full squad of a scourges and hellions. How well do they actually work in 5th edtion?

winkypinky
11-08-2008, 23:13
I have a ton of DE that I have no clue on how to sort into any type of manageble force

Archon: Drugs, field, agoniser, pistol.
Retinue: 4 incubis, 2 warriors: 2 splinter cannons, raider.

2*8 wyches: wych weapons, 2 blasters, succubus: agoniser, raider

3*5 Warriors: 1 dark lance, raider.
3*10 warriors: 2 dark lances.

3 Bikes: 2 blasters.

1 Ravager: 3 disintegrators.
2 Talos.

Is a bit under 1750 points. And a very good start for a DE list. (have the odd points left for what ever piece of random wargear you might fancy)
If you have no clue about how they play in their current form. This should give a rough idea.
It is a shame your army is just collecting dust, when DE actually is a very fun (in my oppinion) army to play with.

Bloodknight
11-08-2008, 23:19
@yabbadabba: well, they already pay 2.5 times as much for a dark lance than any other DE unit, added to being twice as much as a warrior for being able to jump around. I think that is restrictive enough and would already warrant being able to jump and shoot.

Also, keep in mind that it is a GEq unit that therefore reacts really badly to getting shot at. They'd be basically long range Vespids, and we know how popular these are.

EldarBishop
12-08-2008, 00:05
They need to drop the point costs on Scourges for sure. Jet Packs would be nice :D

Mandrakes need some help too... too expensive, and really should have plasma grenades.

Many of the DE could use new models and/or plastic ones. Though, at 2.5k I'd probably only be buying things I don't already have and only if they make them useful...

Getifa Ubazza
12-08-2008, 00:42
They need to drop the point costs on Scourges for sure. Jet Packs would be nice :D

Mandrakes need some help too... too expensive, and really should have plasma grenades.

Many of the DE could use new models and/or plastic ones. Though, at 2.5k I'd probably only be buying things I don't already have and only if they make them useful...Mandrakes are just Warriors with CC weapons and a couple special rules. As they are, they are pretty useless, but give them something like power weapons or rending as well as a champion at an added cost and you would have a rather nice little unit. Even just the Champion would be enough. Maybe with the ability to take haywire and plasma grenades. They would be worth there cost then. Otherwise they are over costed. IMO 12pts max, as they are.

Emperor's Avenger
12-08-2008, 08:02
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have a copy of the 5th ed rules yet and my dark eldar codex is miA, but aren't jump troops able to move and shoot heavy weapons due to relentless? I don't remember exactly how much scourges are, but seems to me their actualy a darn good unit now in the new rules...

Yes, I was thinking that.

winkypinky
12-08-2008, 14:52
Yes, I was thinking that.

Jetpacks have that rule, not jumppacks.
And DE have jumppacks. So they can not make cute tricks and move and shoot. Though it could justify their huge cost in points IF they had jetpacks.

Sir_Turalyon
12-08-2008, 14:58
The idea I always liked was making Scourges' dark lances work as blasters or as dark lances, just like CSM sonic blaster that has both heavy and assault firing modes. It would allow very mobile short range or static long range lance fire.

ChaosTicket
12-08-2008, 15:15
Ohh, I love Scourges, the problem is that they aren't "Elite". They are just a Raider squad that instead of a transport, has jump packs, the problem is that they aren't armored, aren't melee, and are not armed with Mobile weapons. Most people just have them with Splinter Cannons, instead of having a Ravager.

Hopefully Scourges will end up as the twisted version of Swooping Hawks. I'm hoping the same for the other special Dark Eldar Units, like Wyches becoming more like Howling Banshees or Harlequins, and others getting changes here and there.

Getifa Ubazza
12-08-2008, 16:49
The idea I always liked was making Scourges' dark lances work as blasters or as dark lances, just like CSM sonic blaster that has both heavy and assault firing modes. It would allow very mobile short range or static long range lance fire.This is what i was proposing. give the dark lance a assault and heavy fire mode. It would justify the Scourges huge cost and make them more useful.

DaPiranha
12-08-2008, 17:00
Actually if you are talking about a weapon with two modes surely a disintegrator with a heavy 1 blast or an assault 3 weapon would be a much better option. A Dark Lance is too big and to special to start tinkering with IMHO

FashaTheDog
12-08-2008, 18:01
Why do so many people think GW should discontinue the Dark Eldar? Yes they havn't had a new Codex since the start of 3rd and a few of the units are very hard to use, leaving a trio or so standard builds. However, they are very competative and once you learn not to make those little mistakes most other armies ignore, they are not that difficult to use. That alone has to be the reason for why people think of them as being so hard to use, because the Dark Eldar are just more extreme versions of their Craftworld brethren. As a result, those tiny careless errors most people never notice are game breaking for Dark Eldar. Deploying or moving units too far forward or back, resulting in the unit being in range or just out of range for shooting or assaults, not familarizing yourself on your foe's army, and taking minor unnecessary risks when doing well are just a few of the things many people do with their armies that can be absorbed without penalty that the Dark Eldar do not forgive. It requires the player be ruthless, calculating, and able to think "outside of the box" with the rewards great but failure swiftly and brutally punished, much like the army's fluff.

Under the new rules, the best way to make Mandrakes work better would be to make them a scoring unit and leave it at that. Giving them rending or power weapons seems to be the most popular choice but it would change how the unit works. Mandrakes have never been an assault unit in my book, they've always been a disruption element, one that puts people off balance as they generally do not know how to react to the three markers as the unit is not a threat so it is easy to ignore but when combined with the rest of the army, they suddenly put the best laid plans spinning as they can pop in halfway through the game and give 4+ cover saves when most needed, add that last bit of damage to finish off a weakened unit, be placed way off on an objective ignored by the fighting to contest, or even tie down a unit's fire for a turn or two.

Scourges have always been too expensive for my lists but the four splinter cannon set up has been appealing. I am playing around with a few ideas to see them get more use in standard games, but right now I am simply hoping for a better cost to ability ratio in the new book as the unit is a great idea, just a little behind the times as far as pricing goes. With 5,000 points worth of Dark Eldar, I find that in Apocalypse games of that size they are none too bad as at the size and style game, being expensive as they are really doesn't matter that much and you can use them as intended, a fast moving unit capable of slaughtering infantry at range or a tank hunter unit capable of rapid redeployment. Overall I love the way the units works in large games as they can often work with cunningly used Mandrakes to disrupt a flank or destroy key elements (datasheet command tanks, super heavies, etc) so that the remaining elements can operate with greater audacity.