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View Full Version : Cover saves, and long based monsters.



][nquist0r
11-08-2008, 06:50
Ok I had an interesting idea today. My giant was walking beside a forest and not around anything that could currently charge it. So at the end of my giants move I used a free pivot to put his base into the terrain (to give him soft cover.) At the start of the next movement I used a free pivot to take him out and marched him as regular. It seems kinda cheesy, but doesnt seem to violate any rules. Have any of you used long monster bases to this effect?

Braad
11-08-2008, 06:58
I would say I'd just pump his ass full of arrows without penalty, since it is sticking out without any cover at all, but that doesn't include any rules interpretation...

][nquist0r
11-08-2008, 07:06
1/3rd of his base is no cover at all?
lol

Braad
11-08-2008, 07:09
Dunno... It was just a first reaction to something I find a bit odd.

For some reason I can just imagine this 'uuuge ass sticking out of a tree, with a sign "hit 'ere" next to it...

What happens if 10% of a unit is behind soft cover?
And what happens if 90% of a unit is behind another unit?

skank
11-08-2008, 07:39
You need half it's body or more to gain cover (or at least half the models if a unit). It's on p27.

T10
11-08-2008, 11:23
[nquist0r;2855035']Ok I had an interesting idea today. My giant was walking beside a forest and not around anything that could currently charge it. So at the end of my giants move I used a free pivot to put his base into the terrain (to give him soft cover.) At the start of the next movement I used a free pivot to take him out and marched him as regular. It seems kinda cheesy, but doesnt seem to violate any rules. Have any of you used long monster bases to this effect?

In general you can't enter difficult terrain while marching, and you can't march if in difficult terrain.

Thus your Giant would need to be making a regular move (i.e. 6") in order to be allowed to "pivot into" the forest in the first place. Also, when moving on in the next turn he would not be allowed to march since he's in a forest. He would need to make a rgeular move, even though pivoting out of the forest would be essentially free.

-T10

][nquist0r
12-08-2008, 16:29
You need half it's body or more to gain cover (or at least half the models if a unit). It's on p27. Does it say half a monster base, or half of the unit? Because as far as I know as long as part of the base is covered you get the save. (Like behind a hedge.) Although I may be confused by the specific hedge rules in this case. (I'm at work with no BRB.)

Also I wasnt aware that there were restictions on a pivot move. What you are saying is that after moving 12 a giant would be prohibited from his free pivot if it took him into DT which I could not find in the BRB anywhere. (This could be very deteremental if I was setting up to be charged with a Counter charge...)

Nurgling Chieftain
12-08-2008, 18:06
[nquist0r;2859168']Also I wasnt aware that there were restictions on a pivot move.More to the point, there isn't a blanket exemption for a pivot. It just doesn't take up any of your movement distance. It doesn't let you enter terrain when you otherwise couldn't.

][nquist0r
12-08-2008, 18:38
More to the point, there isn't a blanket exemption for a pivot. It just doesn't take up any of your movement distance. It doesn't let you enter terrain when you otherwise couldn't.

It doesnt take up any of my movement distance... Agreed.
Cant enter terrain with free move? Is this a feeling of the way it should be? Certainly there are exceptions. For the record does a forrest count as an obsticle?

Nurgling Chieftain
12-08-2008, 19:08
You can't enter difficult terrain with a march move - and that means any part thereof. If you're not marching (or otherwise subject to terrain a la chariots), then pivoting into difficult ground is fine.

A forest does not count as an obstacle (which is a specific type of terrain in WFB), but it does count as difficult terrain.

Braad
12-08-2008, 19:19
I agree with Nurgling. Even though the pivot is free, its still part of the move, which is a march and therefore prohibits moving through difficult terrain.

Spirit
12-08-2008, 22:09
I recall an agument about the warp lightning cannon that could be relevant,

Its a chariot, thus cannot move in terrain without taking d6 S6 (?) hits,

It does not have to move to fire, but must be faced in the direction of fire,

Can it be placed in a forest and fire without taking any hits, as it has to use a "free move" to aim?


The general vote (i think) was that it was movement and thus would not be able to do that without taking the hits. With that in mind i would say that the giant could not move into terrain with a free move, because in order to move into terrain you must suffer its effects.

I know the two aren't exactly the same, but i would go with,

"if your not going to suffer the penalty for being in terrain, you cannot claim the benefits either"

A good compromise would be that if you start the giants turn "in terrain" it must half its move and not march, pivot or no pivot.

The Red Scourge
13-08-2008, 13:34
You have to have half the unit in cover, and just how you get half of a giants base in cover with a pivot is beyond me :)

Da GoBBo
13-08-2008, 13:47
I agree with Red Scourge. You have to pivot around the center of the base, so no way you can get half the base in it. Yes, I would say you need half the base in the forest for the giant. A giant with a mere foot inside would never get cover on our table.

Spirit
13-08-2008, 16:25
I agree with the 2 above posts, its blatent rules bending in my opinion, whether its raw or not, i prefer a common sense view.

][nquist0r
13-08-2008, 16:33
LOL To be clear, Perhaps I cannot march, BUT I could certainly move 6 and pivot into a forest. I dont need half my base in DT. For unit consideration 100 percent of my unit is in DT.

DarkTerror
13-08-2008, 20:00
[nquist0r;2862420']LOL To be clear, Perhaps I cannot march, BUT I could certainly move 6 and pivot into a forest. I dont need half my base in DT. For unit consideration 100 percent of my unit is in DT.

Sorry, not true. 50% of your base needs to be behind cover. That means you can't do it with a free pivot.

][nquist0r
14-08-2008, 01:52
page number?

Nurgling Chieftain
14-08-2008, 02:35
[nquist0r;2863914']page number?Page 27, first paragraph of COVER, last sentence, parenthetical.

Used Car Salesman
14-08-2008, 02:51
I agree with Red Scourge. You have to pivot around the center of the base, so no way you can get half the base in it. Yes, I would say you need half the base in the forest for the giant. A giant with a mere foot inside would never get cover on our table.

Since when do you pivot around the center of a base? That's not a pivot, but a rotation. A pivot is around a corner of a base so you could get almost the entire base in there if you were close enough.

][nquist0r
14-08-2008, 03:44
lol stop helping =D

Nurgling Chieftain
14-08-2008, 04:13
Since when do you pivot around the center of a base?Page 59, first paragraph of the left column, parenthetical in the last sentence.

Used Car Salesman
14-08-2008, 06:44
Well if that is true(I don't have the new rulebook yet) then that doesn't seem like much of a pivot to me but I can't really argue until I get the rulebook so whatever.

Da GoBBo
15-08-2008, 14:31
As far as I know a pivot was always that, a pivot / rotation, as per meaning of the word. What you'r refering to is wheeling.

EvC
15-08-2008, 14:52
If you don't have the rulebook then I'd suggest you don't offer advice on the rules used car salesman! ;)

Used Car Salesman
15-08-2008, 18:11
Fine you win :P I shall refrain from giving any of my expert advice until I get the rulebook.

xragg
15-08-2008, 18:25
Since when do you pivot around the center of a base? That's not a pivot, but a rotation. A pivot is around a corner of a base so you could get almost the entire base in there if you were close enough.

If this were true, then anything that can pivot for free (giants, chariots, dragons, etc) could move infinitly every move.

Used Car Salesman
15-08-2008, 18:27
I just assumed you could only pivot in one direction but whatever I'm dropping it.