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Wraithbored
04-11-2005, 01:13
This is interesting, I was just playing DoW:WA, and a farseer in the game said:

"The Necrons are responsible for the destruction of our sister race, on this day we will exact some vengance!"

Any idea to whom or what the Farseer was refering to? I know fluff quite well but I must say this is news to me. I've heard of the Krork but that is pretty much it.Anyone?

Khaine's Messenger
04-11-2005, 01:22
Could be the Rashan, about whom we know almost diddly so far as I'm aware (even by comparison to the Jokaero). Of course, imho this implies a far greater intimate awareness of actual history than I think the Eldar should possess (although the image presented by linguistic turn of phrase "sister race" is rather amusing). But hey....

Wraithbored
04-11-2005, 01:26
Could be the Rashan, about whom we know almost diddly so far as I'm aware (even by comparison to the Jokaero). Of course, imho this implies a far greater intimate awareness of actual history than I think the Eldar should possess (although the image presented by linguistic turn of phrase "sister race" is rather amusing). But hey....
Thanks man, again the shrowd of unfulfilled fluff throws itching powder down our pants...

And could you share some of the obscure extinct or little known race fluff?

Inquisitor Engel
04-11-2005, 01:40
It's possible he's having a bout of Eldar arrogance, and is in fact referring to the Slaan (Not the Old Ones, they're ascended Slaan, at least in my book. :))

The Eldar are full aware the Necrons are the prime subjects in the extinction of the Slaan, and fully aware that the war existed, and that they took part in it.

I say it's Eldar arrogance elevating themselves to the level of the Slaan, rather than any actual historical accuracy.

Wraithbored
04-11-2005, 01:55
It's possible he's having a bout of Eldar arrogance, and is in fact referring to the Slaan (Not the Old Ones, they're ascended Slaan, at least in my book. :))

The Eldar are full aware the Necrons are the prime subjects in the extinction of the Slaan, and fully aware that the war existed, and that they took part in it.

I say it's Eldar arrogance elevating themselves to the level of the Slaan, rather than any actual historical accuracy.
She says it wit ha voice full of regret and sad memory. Not arrogance at all. I like how the Eldar are represented in DoW, yes they are trying to survive but they aren't total arrogant bastards about it, more like they were in 2nd ed.

Inquisitor Engel
04-11-2005, 02:27
She says it wit ha voice full of regret and sad memory. Not arrogance at all. I like how the Eldar are represented in DoW, yes they are trying to survive but they aren't total arrogant bastards about it, more like they were in 2nd ed.

I didn't mean SHE was being arrogant, I meant the whole race was being arrogant enough to believe that they were once on par with the Slaan (though it could be argued that they did exceed them in some areas later on.)

Twisted Ferret
04-11-2005, 02:35
This is interesting, I was just playing DoW:WA, and a farseer in the game said:

"The Necrons are responsible for the destruction of our sister race, on this day we will exact some vengance!"
:D I just finished that game (the campaign, at least), and was wondering about that too. I wish they had made the Necrons a playable race :( to balance out the good/evil ratio, perhaps.

Kage2020
04-11-2005, 03:33
Well, the 'fluff' states that the eldar did surpass the Slann. Of course, if you believe that then arguably you have to believe the 'fluff' from the perspective of the Imperium, and that's something that many people do not do. Well, at least I don't. (Then again I do believe that the eldar transcended the Slann in all 'mundane' matters of their technology/technomancy.)

Of course, against this is just the standard 'cool' imagery that GW throws out left, right and centre. Everything must be shaded by your personal interpretation! :D

Kage

Inquisitor Engel
04-11-2005, 03:42
(Then again I do believe that the eldar transcended the Slann in all 'mundane' matters of their technology/technomancy.)

My caveat did indeed refer to the Eldar not surpassing them in matter of spiritual understanding and such, but that goes hand in hand with my theory of Slaan-to-Old-One Ascension theory. ;)

Kage2020
04-11-2005, 04:17
Ah, that lovely term 'my'. I disagree with your premise of the Slann-as-eldar-gods, but with some of the other concepts? I'm fine with that.

Kage

Terrordar
04-11-2005, 04:57
I find it doubtful that the Slann would be the Eldar Gods, at least directly.

Kage2020
04-11-2005, 22:09
<grin> And neither do I, obviously! With that said there is lattitude for interpretation, e.g. the eldar might have once believed that the Old Ones (or the Old Slann; there is a difference, for me) were their gods before they gave birth to them in the aethyr. See Engel's thread on the 'Old One Ascension Theory' for my take on that.

Kage

Slazton
05-11-2005, 00:47
Its nice to see that there are fluff errors in the Game then.........

However, maybe it could be in relation to other Eldar 'races' as in their own kind. Maybe the english word and the Eldar word mean two different things. Like how we call ourselves brothers etc, the Eldar have trascended sexual stereotypes or care for it. So by calling them a sister race it could mean that the people were sisters of their once joined kin.

I don't know. I'm just a Zombie.

Goblinardo
05-11-2005, 01:26
Could be the Rashan (snip)

I'm sorry, who are those guys? Sources, anyone?

Nazguire
05-11-2005, 06:40
I'm sorry, who are those guys? Sources, anyone?

I'd also like to know something about the Rashan. But it's also curious as to how long ago the Rashan were destroyed. If only recently (recently as only a few hundred thousand years) then it's quite possible there was some 'sister race' that followed the Eldar into the stars.

If they were destroyed around the time the Necrons were at their height (a few million years ago) then the comment could be referring to another race that was struggling to survive along with the Eldar, when they weren't all super-hi-tech-superman yet.

ML Kurze
05-11-2005, 17:22
I'd like to hear about the Rashan too. Never heard of those buggers before.

Kage2020
05-11-2005, 22:46
It seems strange that they do not really show up in eldar mythology, etc., other than this one throw away phrase, though.

Kage

Flame Boy
06-11-2005, 10:45
I hope they can take this one mysterious phrase and weave it into the Eldar background and mythology when the next codex arises, but I doubt they will...

ML Kurze
06-11-2005, 13:33
Hopefully. Or not...

Kage2020
07-11-2005, 21:26
Given their last performance of 'weaving' a new race into the background, I would definitely hope not. The phrase "...making a complete pigs ear of things..." springs to mind.

But there we go.

Kage

Flame Boy
07-11-2005, 21:31
Given their last performance of 'weaving' a new race into the background, I would definitely hope not. The phrase "...making a complete pigs ear of things..." springs to mind.

But there we go.

Kage


Haha... Your cynicism did make me laugh, I must say. I'm sure they learned from that particular endeavour... :rolleyes:

Khaine's Messenger
07-11-2005, 22:31
I'm sorry, who are those guys? Sources, anyone?

They're mentioned in the Necron 'dex as one of the races (alongside the Krork, Eldar, K'nib, Jokaero...) the OO supposedly tried to cultivate around the time of the War in Heaven. Other than that, nothing so far as I'm aware (other than MvS's timeline, which is unofficial and doesn't say much about them either).

Spectre
07-11-2005, 22:49
This is interesting, I was just playing DoW:WA, and a farseer in the game said:

"The Necrons are responsible for the destruction of our sister race, on this day we will exact some vengance!"


Hmm, I heard "...responsible for the distruction of our sister species"
As in, plural. I'll have to go back and have a listen to make sure.
I took this to mean the farsser was reffering to all the species that had been eradicated by the necrons rather than one specific one.
(as in, the necrons are non-living, so to the eldar, all that lives is a sister species to them, when compared to the necrons)

athamas
07-11-2005, 23:47
on the rashan.. .did alittle searching,

For the Eldar, last paragraph, p. 25. They 'nurtured many potential warrior races, and there is speculation that these included the earliest Eldar, the Rashan, and the K'nib.' The way I read it, that clearly states that the Old Ones did not create the Eldar, but did affect their early development somewhat.

For the Necrontyr, the actual line is 'As the Old Ones spread across the galaxy, younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrontyr were such a race,' All that tells us is that the Necrontyr rose after the Old Ones did... assuming one created the other isn't logical.

1.The earliest races created by the Old Ones are said to be the Eldar, the Rashan, and the K'nib. The Eldar we all know about but has there been any references made to the other two races?

ML Kurze
08-11-2005, 10:27
The K'Nib are mentioned in the third edition rulebook one the same page in which the drawings of the Kroot, Donorian fiend, Necron and H'rud can be found. It is in the little textbox above.

Achilles
08-11-2005, 11:01
are the krork the forefathers of the orkoid race?
isnt it said somewhere in the nighbringers fluff they didnt fear death (the nightbringer)? and the orks dont really fear death, do they?

ML Kurze
08-11-2005, 14:03
The Krork are the Orks. The old fluff of the Orks hinted that they were a warrior race created to protect their creators. Only the Orks turned on them and killed their masters. This is 2nd edition and the last bit about the Orks killing their masters is replaced with their masters disappearing.

Kage2020
09-11-2005, 00:55
Haha... Your cynicism did make me laugh, I must say. I'm sure they learned from that particular endeavour... :rolleyes:
As I am currently fond of saying, "Cynicism is not a state of mind, but one of experience..."

And based upon the HH CCG information in general? It would appear that they have not learned.

Kage

Slazton
09-11-2005, 09:19
GW won't learn and in truth, they more than likely won't change. However, there is alot of fluff out there for this 40K game, why not just add in what you think, edit it and then build a new smaller race?

The fluff is only game fluff when the other player says no ;)

Zombie #246
09-11-2005, 10:12
The Krork are the Orks. The old fluff of the Orks hinted that they were a warrior race created to protect their creators. Only the Orks turned on them and killed their masters. This is 2nd edition and the last bit about the Orks killing their masters is replaced with their masters disappearing.
I had always heard that orks were more cartoony in 2nd edition; perhaps I heard wrong?

Achilles
09-11-2005, 10:31
The Krork are the Orks. The old fluff of the Orks hinted that they were a warrior race created to protect their creators. Only the Orks turned on them and killed their masters. This is 2nd edition and the last bit about the Orks killing their masters is replaced with their masters disappearing.

I though the "Brainboyz " dissapeared and left the orks the gift of selectable mutability to survive? thus "growing" mad doks, Meks, and even weirdboyz when needed in orc society. also in the old epic PC game, name of which is lost to me at the moment, described the snotlings as the remnant of the brainboyz. all of this might have changed over the years, but the brainboyz disappeared (no matter how) later then the war in heaven i thought. maybe the krorks are the brainboyz, and created the orks in a later stadium, mimicing their own creators?

ML Kurze
09-11-2005, 11:17
@Zombie 246: Well, first of, the Orks were comical in 2nd edition, much like the Orks in Mordheim only a tad funnier even.

@Achilles: the epic game was Final Liberation. Played it last time. And as I said, the fluff about the brainboyz has been changed with the introduction of the Necrons and Old Ones. Who the brainboyz were can be explained by two theories which we discussed way back on portent (Brusi was part of that one). The first theory is that the Brainboyz were the Old Ones. The second is that the Brainboyz were the leaders of the Orks for the Old Ones, much like the Slann for the Lizardmen in WFB. However, the Krork can not be the predecessors of the Orks because the Deceiver mentioned to be surprised seeing the humans and krork scattered throughout the galaxy. And since only Orks and Humans can be found just about everywhere makes it a easy riddle.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-11-2005, 12:34
As I remember it don't the Codex say(or hint) that Snotlings are the musterious Brainboyz, or at least Snotlings are the remnants of them. They used to eat a special fungus to make them smart, but the orcs rebelled and eat all the Fungus themselves(but didn't get any smarter!), killing the Fungus and thus ended the Brainboyz.

ronster486
09-11-2005, 20:55
Could be the Rashan, about whom we know almost diddly so far as I'm aware (even by comparison to the Jokaero). Of course, imho this implies a far greater intimate awareness of actual history than I think the Eldar should possess (although the image presented by linguistic turn of phrase "sister race" is rather amusing). But hey....
Sounds like this is the proper answer. Read through the other responses and this one sounds the best...is there an official answer?

Talkie Toaster
12-11-2005, 01:48
It's interesting to see the stuff you can read into it, I didn't really think and just took it as "Sister members of our race". As vaguely asexual Elves in Space, presumably picking one or the other gender reference isn't much of a deal for Eldar. Of course, there's always the chance it means something very dfficult to explain in Low Gothic...

Kage2020
12-11-2005, 13:34
I never considered the eldar asexual, TalkieToaster. Why are you suggesting that they are, even with the term 'vaguely'?

Kage

Talkie Toaster
13-11-2005, 20:15
I mean, asexual in the societal sense. Using "Brother" and "Sister" to refer to others can have meaning in a more gender-divided culture like humanity, but assuming the Eldar don't place much, if any, value on differences (we already know male eldar can take on the aspect of the female howling banshee), but if the Eldar are 'vaguely asexual' then it can just be another generic term for a group.

Kage2020
13-11-2005, 20:31
Much better. I'm sold! :D

Kage