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View Full Version : Hey, why can't we have this?



Slappy
04-11-2005, 01:45
http://www.solegends.com/citrt/rtb01photo.jpg

I remember back when this was like 20 bucks or so.

So what's the deal these days GW?

Wraithbored
04-11-2005, 01:49
Ouch this topic is a price debate I'd seriously rephrase that man, otherwise this topic will get closed.

Dvalin
04-11-2005, 01:59
Inflation, changing value of the dollar, increased overhead because of the increasing size of GW, investment in future means of production. Let's assume the conversion rate for USD to British Pounds Sterling was 1.5 at the time -- historically fairly solid. Over April, it was spiking as high as 1.92 USD to GBP. Right there, that would mean the cost would go to $25 -- before factoring inflation. That's presumably -very- old -- but let's assume that it was available in '95 at that rate, for sake of the estimate. From http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/InflationCalculator.asp, January '95 to January '05 yields a value of 26.88% -- so let's give that another 1.25. That yields $32. Note that this would be significantly higher if we assume that the $20 or so for that set of Space Marines was from the late '80s -- '88 yields a value of ~64%, for comparison.

Now, I don't know how much Britain's standard of living has gone up, or how much materials costs may have gone up, or how much development time is now involved in models and presses, or any other such information -- but these may have an involvement.

..but, contrary to common belief, prices generally -aren't- going to remain constant over a period of time, unless other factors also remain constant. Coincidentally, they haven't.

..and as Wraithbored said, this sort of topic is subject to a lot of heat and is liable to be closed. So y'know. ;)

Slappy
04-11-2005, 02:13
Actually, I bet if GW still had the molds, plugged them into a machine, and started pumping these babies out for 25 bucks a pop, they would still make a nice profit.

Or they could give the models to a toy company like Hasbro and let them do it. I know they won't and my dreams are absurd. Hell, they aren't even dreams. Dreams are reasonable for the most part.

Another dream I have is buy out GW one day and completely re-do all the games, all the art, rule systems, fluff, etc. Do all it over from scratch.

TomKamakazi
04-11-2005, 02:18
Ignoring the oppinions of those who have an unhealthy obsession with beakie hemets, the quality of minis have generally increased as well.

How much does a sculptor earn an hour and how many hours does it take to sculpt a plastic kit?



EDIT:
A note to the mods: Should there maybe be a whole forum for price gripes? It would keep it out of the regular discussions at least.

Slappy
04-11-2005, 02:26
This isn't a price gripe. We all know GW's current prices are silly and unreasonable, but you guys (not me) pay anyways.

What I am griping about is that I cannot buy this boxset anymore, new, on the shelf, and for the same price. I am crazy, don't you see that?

TomKamakazi
04-11-2005, 02:58
Fair enough, the reason you can't buy this box any more is the same reason yuo can't buy new 1987 Ford Falcons anymore. They've been upgraded and production is stopped.

Seriously Slappy, if you hate the rules and prices of 40k so much, just go and hang out in the painting and terrain threads. It will be much better for your blood pressure.

Slappy
04-11-2005, 03:06
No, because I am a non-hobbyist gamer. I hate painting and anything along those lines. In fact, I hate the elitist-painters (who think the game includes painting with no excuses) worse than the dvevoted fanboys. Crazy huh?

I eat too many whole grains anyways to have high blood pressure.

sulla
04-11-2005, 03:24
Well, they are smaller than the IG models...

EVIL INC
04-11-2005, 04:18
Slappy, I will have to agree with you on this. Most of my army consists of these older RTB01s converted to the chaos cause. I would LOVE to be able to buy more of these older models. I wouldnt even mind paying the price that the current models go for. Not to say the newer ones are bad, but with them redoing the models each time, it is almost as though they are forcing you to buy all new models with each new update just to keep the same "look". I would love to not have to mix the newer models with the old, but I make do.

Slappy
04-11-2005, 04:23
I love these marines. They are all business, no show.

Purity seals?

Forget it.

Litanies of Faith?

No way.

Giant Banners?

Go to Hell.


I just bought a bunch of them from an undisclosed source and I am doing them up in CAMOFLAUGE. Did you hear that? Camoflauge. You know, like real marines. Eventually I will have a fully painted 1st edition Marine force compatible with 1st-4th edition 40k. Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my ass. Anyone that thinks their newer army is better than mine, is wrong.

Brimstone
04-11-2005, 04:48
Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my ass. Anyone that thinks their newer army is better than mine, is wrong.

Trolling is against forum rules, break them again and you'll get a strike.

Consider this a final warning.

The Warseer Inqusition.

TomKamakazi
04-11-2005, 11:08
Ok Slappy... lets put togeather a list;
You don't like the game.
You don't like painting.
You don't seem to like the miniatures.
And evidently you're not very keen on the background.

That's all fine. You're entitled to your oppinions. I've no beef with you for not liking my chosen hobby. But the question goes begging; What the ****** are you doing posting on, let alone reading a 40k forum?

cerealkiller195
04-11-2005, 11:20
maybe he has a love/hate relationship w/ 40k? He mentioned elsewhere that he has been playing since RT. Maybe he is waiting for the day that 40k changes back to its former glory, by bitching he thinks he might be able to change that.

hey thats what he likes why should we force him to change it? I understand that he gets teh reprimand for the statement above but other than that YOU dont have to read his messages. You see his name you know you aren't going to like what he has to say. So avoid it.

Robot 2000
04-11-2005, 12:07
Ok Slappy... lets put togeather a list;
You don't like the game.
You don't like painting.
You don't seem to like the miniatures.
And evidently you're not very keen on the background.

That's all fine. You're entitled to your oppinions. I've no beef with you for not liking my chosen hobby. But the question goes begging; What the ****** are you doing posting on, let alone reading a 40k forum?


this is my opinion of slappy after the last few days of his posts. Why the hell are you still on this board, slappy?

Vosk
04-11-2005, 12:13
People like Trolling?

In his first post on this thread he spoke about how GW would be sure to make a profit if they were to simply re-release those Marines as seen there. How do you know that Slappy? Have you been over the figures (pardon the pun)?

EVIL INC
04-11-2005, 12:43
Offhand I would say just let the guy/girl make his/her own mistakes. No need to really egg him on like that. It IS tempting, but not really worth the trouble.
Then again, back on topic...
I have gone over this before. While GW may not make a boatload of money rereleasing the older models, books and games, I think that there would be money to be made. There are a lot of people who prefer or are nostaglic (man my spelling sucks) or want older stuff like books just for the fluff.
While I can indeed field a full legal army of these older beakies complete with old rhinos and land raider, I often impress people with this and they wonder where I found these treasures. Then when I tell them when I started playing the game, they just realize I am old.:p When I do that, my army is not nessessarily "better" then anyone elses (especially my paint jobs:rolleyes: ), but it does stand out as different. Oftentimes, as I have found out to my delight, when the paint jobs in a tourny are all equal, different can be enough to tip the scales in your favor on that award. Not fair I know, but ok so long as its me winning.:p
Seriously, There are people who would buy the stuff and many who would appreciate seeing thier opponants use them. The question is, is GW willing to take the chance on how much. Sadly, I doubt it.

Gaebriel
04-11-2005, 12:44
No, because I am a non-hobbyist gamer. I hate painting and anything along those lines. ...See, that's what puzzles me about some people.

If you do not like so many aspects of 'the hobby', why don't you chose another game system?

There are many other strategy/tactic simulation games out there, that are better than GWs simulation wise (not hard toa chieve), and don't cost an arm and a leg.

In fact, if I weren't into the models, and the painting, and anything along those lines, and would only want to play a good game, I wouldn't be here. Seriously.

Oh, and on topic : I love Beakies, but I don't really like that kit. I settle in the middle and use the older metal bodies with the newer plastic arms and stuff...

azimaith
04-11-2005, 12:57
Wasn't this thread dead?

I mean, Slappy, do you really need to go over and over again complaining about GW, then asserting you most certainly don't use their products/play their game, especially in such a condescending way to people actually play? If you dislike the game so much why even bother posting, and if all your going to do is whine about pricing, rules, whatever, why even bother posting at all.

lee909
04-11-2005, 13:11
I wasnt playing when they came out but i would rather have less in a box and have the newer models than have them
i have a few upstairs but would`nt touch them with a barge pole
also with a lot of stuff now going plastic i dont think its as bad as people make out, how can you complain about the price rise with the new models being release i can understand if you live in Norway as the prices are stupid but in the u.k they arnt that bad

Sai-Lauren
04-11-2005, 13:11
I'm currently re-painting an old marine force, including a few squads of RTB01's, and some metals of that era (and older).

Sorry, just wanted to brag about that :D

Ok, more seriously before Brimmy decides I'm wasting bandwidth, I do like the marines from that era (amongst other figures ;)), but the sculptors have moved on and I recognise that.

It's simply not feasible to keep all the old models in constant production - maybe if GW had the cash/inclination they could split off a part of Citadel/ outsource to ForgeWorld to cater for us old-timers (or BOFs if you prefer ;)), collectors and inquisitive newbies doing small production runs rotating through the older models from the archives and costed to match the nature of their production (either as "we're thinking of doing these, if we get x orders in 3 months we'll do them, otherwise we'll refund the money, minus the interest that's accrued in our account in the meantime", or as a straight production run to sit in the warehouse until they're all sold out) - might also quieten down the e-bay re-casters if some of the models become available, even if only for short time periods, they're still GW's IP after all.

The rest of GW don't even have to support them in terms of things like rules.

But I'm certainly not holding my breath for that to happen. If enough of us sent a letter to GW with a cheque enclosed, or stood outside Warhammer World or the shareholders annual meeting, with cash in hand, then they might consider it. Until then...

Latro_
04-11-2005, 13:21
Ok Slappy... lets put togeather a list;
You don't like the game.
You don't like painting.
You don't seem to like the miniatures.
And evidently you're not very keen on the background.

That's all fine. You're entitled to your oppinions. I've no beef with you for not liking my chosen hobby. But the question goes begging; What the ****** are you doing posting on, let alone reading a 40k forum?

Tooks the words off my fingers.
I don't think many people are interested in you slating their hobby. Buy gw and start again? why don't you invent your own models/game... you clearly seem to think you know what works more than Gamesworkshop.

simonr1978
05-11-2005, 08:34
I'm going to try and stand up for Slappy here.

In many ways I agree with him. I started playing with Rogue Trader, to be honest there's a lot I prefer about the RT era rules over the current rules, the same applies to the background and art-work of the era.

I don't frequent GW stores much and I don't buy the figures much anymore, I started going off them when GW started going in for "Hero Scale" where every Catachan guardsman looked like Arnie in Predator.

Marines covered in Purity seals just seem daft to me, I preferred the relatively clean armour of the pre-2nd Edition Marines, I preferred the more realistic looking generic Guardsmen of the 40K Compendium.

However, time has moved on. As I said, I hardly buy GW products at all anymore because I'm not as keen on the style and I'm not as keen on the price (Not flaming, but when I originally got into 40K it was relatively speaking a lot more affordable), but clearly other people are and are willing to pay for them.

Personally I would love to see a return to the Rogue Trader style rules (Except vehicle combat which was never adequately sorted out), I would love to see a return to simpler and more affordable models, but I know this is not going to happen.

boogle
05-11-2005, 09:22
its mainly because the quality iis so much better now than then. plus as has been said Inflation bites

simonr1978
05-11-2005, 11:09
Inflation doesn't bite that much, plus I'm not so sure about the quality being better necessarily, the Metal/Plastic Marines from the "Strike Force" boxed set were I think as good as any being produced today, the boxed set of plastic Marines being referred to here were fairly detailed and being multipart pretty easy to convert and repose.

The figures have changed in appearance and arguably quality but so too have the production techniques been modernised.

The style has evolved both of the miniatures and the game, and in both cases I am not convinced that it's necessarily been changes for the better.

Now, just to make my position clear. I am not slating GW, I enjoy wargaming and I enjoy painting, converting and assembling miniatures, in my case I have not bought GW for ages not necessarily because I dislike it but because I do not like it as much as I used to (Both in terms of the style of the figures and the style of the rules) and I do not feel it represents anything like the value for money relatively speaking that it did when I originally became interested in GW.

Icewalker
05-11-2005, 13:37
Let me just speak my mind. Who doesn't hate the high prices of the minis? I think that the end results are worth it quite a bit of the time because you always learn from what happened. After having read your last few posts here on this thread I second what has been said. Why the hell are you still here if you hate painting, converting and wargames?

EDIT:Inflation is bad in any business, especially wargaming and fencing and paintball. :(

Toppan
05-11-2005, 20:17
i honestly thought he was complaining about there being a ton of models for cheaper then the regular today
what is that, 20 marines or so? for 20 bucks? even with inflation, they could put more models in a box and wouldnt have to raise it much...i think

cerealkiller195
05-11-2005, 21:54
i much rather have 30 guys for $20 bucks than like 8-10 guys for $35. Maybe its the fact that GW uses lame excuses for their "price adjustments" that gets me pissed.

and hey that guy who said something about not touching your RT marines, fork em over!!!!

Slappy
05-11-2005, 22:32
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. If you got some RT-marines you don't want by all means PM me with a list of them.

Mikhaila
06-11-2005, 03:40
To each his own. I had about 30 of those old beakies I got in a collection last month, and thought it was a pain to put all the bits back together that had come unglued, and try to get them posed correctly. Seemed like work. Conversely, the couple of hours i spent putting together a squad of the new Templars was great fun. I loved the models and the new bits, and had a great time putting the models together. I'm looking forward to painting the templars, the beakies I just sold off.

As to why you can't buy a set of out of print figures for the price it was 14 years ago, it's not worth even discussing. You already know the answer, you're just trolling.

Slappy
06-11-2005, 05:45
Since those old beakies are just wasting your space why don't you sell them to me then?

Brimstone
06-11-2005, 08:23
Please take discussion on sales and wanted models to the appropriate forum.

Chuffy
06-11-2005, 09:00
I much prefer the older fluff of marines to the current ones. Marines used to be a highly trained special ops force, doing surgical and brutal strikes against an enemy, they were taken from the scum of the Imperium (Thieves, Murderers and Rapists) and made to be totally loyal and obdient. There was something quite sinister about their look aswell in a few pieces of artwork.

Now? Jesus....now they wear dresses made of parchment, wear candles on their heads and have purity seals for eyes. Marines have become catholic clowns in space. They are still supposed to be a strike force, yet I don't see how something encumbered by that much armour and wearing that much decoration is capable of doing that.

Marines = boring.

simonr1978
06-11-2005, 10:14
I much prefer the older fluff of marines to the current ones. Marines used to be a highly trained special ops force, doing surgical and brutal strikes against an enemy, they were taken from the scum of the Imperium (Thieves, Murderers and Rapists) and made to be totally loyal and obdient. There was something quite sinister about their look aswell in a few pieces of artwork.

Now? Jesus....now they wear dresses made of parchment, wear candles on their heads and have purity seals for eyes. Marines have become catholic clowns in space. They are still supposed to be a strike force, yet I don't see how something encumbered by that much armour and wearing that much decoration is capable of doing that.

Marines = boring.

I can't recall them being supposed to be drafted from convicts (Mental note to self to re-read Rogue Trader later), certainly by the Compendium they were genetically engineered from birth or chosen at a young age and engineered/implanted and trained to be the best of the Imperium.

I too preferred the cleaner armour, without all the decoration and guff of many of the current models (Hell I used to file off the skull motifs on the kneecaps of the 2nd edition models to give the armour a cleaner look). If nothing else within about 20 seconds of an actual combat all that stuff would have been ripped and torn off anyway. But then who expects any pretence of realism in 40K anymore? :rolleyes: