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LokkoRex
14-08-2008, 17:16
hi all, i'm currently looking for fluff for my future chaos warband and can't seem to find any information about 4 minor chaos gods. one was goddes of misery, one god of beasts, another of the sea and the fourth i don't know anything about(it wasn't malal, zuvassin nor necoho). any and all background for these guys is appreciated.

ADF
14-08-2008, 17:49
It would be greatly benefical to know where you first read about them, as it is more likely that someone who has the source in his archive could comment on it.

Adra
14-08-2008, 18:04
They are not part of current background, thats all I know.

Vaz84
14-08-2008, 18:41
Chaos god of the sea?..

There are no sea's in space..?

I wonder if the chaos god of the sea controls the anger sharks!?

LokkoRex
14-08-2008, 18:47
i remember searching around google and found some thread on renegade/minor chaos deities. i'm remembering that the god of beast was named atagro, and the goddess of misery's name was myrmidia or something akin.

Faustburg
14-08-2008, 18:52
Beasts, sea and misery gods seems like fan-fic... never, ever read any thing close to canon about that, especially

The minor gods mentioned, as what the spikes of the "spiky bits" wargear piece were in reverence to, in the (first) 3rd ed Chaos Marine Codex, were all wordplay in-jokes without any deeper fluff. I don't remember the exact names, but they were distortions of 'Brian Ansell' (GW founder), 'Michael Moorecock' (established the whole concept/type of Chaos Gods that features in the games), and 'Frank Frazetti' (very influential fantasy artist).

Also there were the example rat-god in the section with rules for creating your own chaos deity, back in the Lost and the Damned book (1990)



But no chaos gods of the sea... especially not in space...

ChaosBeast
14-08-2008, 20:25
what, so in 3rd edition their were 8 chaos gods! talk about a retcon. thats worse than the squats!

slaanghoul
15-08-2008, 04:54
Chaos god of the sea?..

There are no sea's in space..?

I wonder if the chaos god of the sea controls the anger sharks!?


Why not? I think Chaos god of the sea is a cool idea. I'm sure there are sea xeno out there that would love to worship it.

TheOverlord
15-08-2008, 05:14
Myrmidia is a God from fantasy, the Goddess of War and Soldiers. Patron Goddess of the Knights of the Blazing Sun. She is NOT a Chaos God. At least not in Fantasy.

I dunno about the rest. There are more than just 4 minor Chaos Gods though, there are probably dozens or hundreds of them, each of them a minor facet of the big four. The only one I know however is the Raptor from the previous CSM codex.

Malevon
15-08-2008, 09:15
There are three minor Chaos Gods that I know of:

Malal, who, exiled from the other Chaos Gods, seeks only to destroy them. Malal was created by comic artists for a comic book series, and after GW broke ties with the comic books they could no longer officially use him. However, many GW publications reference the Outcast God indirectly, including a chapter devoted to his worship, the Sons of Malice, who share his heraldry, a skull split down the middle between black and white.

Zuvassin, the meddler, strives constantly to undo what other have done. His followers want to make sure nothing goes as expected and all plans go awry. Zuvassin will even go so far as to remove the mutations laid upon mortals by the other gods of Chaos in order to thwart their carefully laid plans. I would imagine his desire to spread true chaos would bring him into conflict with Tzeentch, who always has a plan. The symbol of Zuvassin is a double ended Y-shape, which is usually incomplete or otherwise incorrectly drawn in some way; some part may be missing from, or something may have been added to it. Both Zuvassin and Necoho were first published in the WFRP campaign, "Something Rotten in Kislev."

Necoho, the great doubter, seeks to depose all deities. He was formed in the Warp by a paradox which makes his existence impossible; he is formed from the emotions of those who struggle against religions and their gods. Obviously this means his following would be very limited. He has no livery, as he has no worshippers.

The line between Chaos God and Daemon is non-existent; it's more of an incline ranging from the Four Ruinous Powers down to the lowliest Warp Entities, like Nurglings. I imagine there are Warp Entities more powerful than Greater Daemons that have their own followings, and could be called lesser gods in their own right. An entity like Cherubael is a good example; he sets up his own cults, and while not nearly as powerful as any of the Chaos Gods or even one of their Greater Daemons, he owes his allegiance to no one but himself. There's no reason you couldn't create your own minor deity for your own warband, or use one of the first two above. (Necoho, by definition, lacks worshippers.)

I haven't heard of the ones you mentioned though. Are you sure they're not part of the Empire's pantheon from Fantasy? At least one of them is, and having deities of beasts and the sea would make more sense in that setting than in the grim darkness of the far future.

LokkoRex
15-08-2008, 10:25
oh sorry, i knew myrmidia didn't seem right. anyway, i've got the 3rd edition codex and it only mentions those three gods named after ansell, morrcock and some third guy. i think the original mention off them was in realms of chaos, where they seemed to represent one of the bigger four gods of chaos(atagro=khorne, the goddess of misery=nurgle, god of darkness and god of sea(i think this has something to do with warp travel and ships in space)=slaanesh and tzeentch)
they appear in both fantasy and 40k, the god of darkness appearing more often in 40k.

EDIT: you might have a good idea there, malevon, maybe i should ask the fantasy guys instead/too.

LOOK HERE OLD-TIME PLAYERS: if you have the realm of chaos books, could you please look if you can find something on these gods, any and all info is greatly appreciated

Goq Gar
15-08-2008, 10:38
I know little of the minor gods, only that there is one which you worship by rattling drawers. (Waits to see who gets it).

I seem to remember the major gods of chaos had minor gods that served them... Like Khorne had the minor god of blood, the minor god of gore, the god of flesh, of killing, maiming, burning, etc.

Bregalad
15-08-2008, 22:32
Both Zuvassin and Necoho were first published in the WFRP campaign, "Something Rotten in Kislev."
You known that Malal has been written out of official background many years ago, so he is not part of current official background.

"Something Rotten in Kislev" is a 19 year old FANTASY adventure. If you don't have another current source from 40k, this is again not relevant, as 40k and fantasy don't share the same universe anymore.

I agree though that warp entities are difficult to classify and that some very powerful daemons may fulfill the roles of "lesser gods" among cults.

chaos0xomega
15-08-2008, 23:18
Well, there was Sarr'kel, who might be a chaos god who calls himself lord of shadows.
And there was Melkirth, god of misery, who was a lesser god that was growing in power due to the actions of the Dark Elves.

There is a chaos god of the sea, Pyaray, but that's Moorcock fiction, not 40k/fantasy fiction...

Faustburg
15-08-2008, 23:37
I know little of the minor gods, only that there is one which you worship by rattling drawers. (Waits to see who gets it).

I seem to remember the major gods of chaos had minor gods that served them... Like Khorne had the minor god of blood, the minor god of gore, the god of flesh, of killing, maiming, burning, etc.


Sources, people, sources....


(No, there never was such a thing as minor gods serving the major ones... the "other" gods were, while not as powerful, by themselves gods in their own rights)

Malevon
15-08-2008, 23:41
There's no reason a powerful greater daemon of Khorne couldn't be a "god" of blood or some other specialization.

FeetOfClay
16-08-2008, 00:23
I know little of the minor gods, only that there is one which you worship by rattling drawers. (Waits to see who gets it).

WOO! Discworld, shame I cant remember her name. Funny thing is, Discworld has always set my opinion on the various gods in warhammer (i.e., worship=gods, not the other way round).

Drongol
16-08-2008, 02:26
WOO! Discworld, shame I cant remember her name. Funny thing is, Discworld has always set my opinion on the various gods in warhammer (i.e., worship=gods, not the other way round).

Anoia, Goddess of Things That Get Stuck in Drawers.

YOU COULD BE NEXT.

Drongol

Bregalad
16-08-2008, 10:45
Here is a half written WIP wikipedia article on the topic, so you get an idea, which mentioned Lesser Chaos Gods are old, which are Fantasy only etc. :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(Warhammer)
Keep in mind that Fantasy and 40k are different universes now and 40k background has been rewritten since Rogue trader days, so most names here are not part of official current 40k background.

NashTrickster
16-08-2008, 10:56
About Zuvassin and Necoho: they are actually replacements for Malal (the owners of Malal's IP having left GW while SRiK was being written the intended apparitions of Malal had to be removed and thus the Doubter and the Undoer (two different aspects of who Malal is) were created. Only Malal is a "true" god...

=======

Bregalad, although Malal has indeed not been mentionned by name in recent fluff, he's been hinted at several times... I can't remember all of the "hints" right now, but the Sons of Malice are an example.

Faustburg
16-08-2008, 11:17
The "Dreadaxe" deamon weapon in the previous Chaos Codex is the most obvious hint/reference to Malal. Named for the weapon of Malals champion, and with a taste for destroying daemons of the other gods.

As a side note, I think it is a later construction to view Malal as the fifth chaos god, as Slaanesh wasn't part of the setting at the time (not from a in universe p.o.w, but as in actually in the books...), and only added after Malal had been dropped...

Hrw-Amen
18-08-2008, 11:27
Surely there are thousands if not millions of them? I would look at it in the same light that we look at current religions and say that every daemon out there is a chaos god to a greater or lesser degree. A bit like in current and past Terran cultures where local water nymths or whatever are the small local gods that have small local shrines dedicated to them. They are just not the all powerful ones.

I would see it as a though Khorne (For example.) has the 'Supreme' Khorne god who rules over all and then his greater daemons, daemon princes, blood letters and so on down, in a similar light to which 'God' has himself and then varying levels of angels. Depending on how you look at it they are all divine just at different levels of importance.

Another question I would consider is are the 'Supreme' chaos gods fixed? We know that they are always fighting amongst themselves, so for example if the Great Grandfather Nurgle really annoys one of his greater daemons or daemon princes, is there a chance that a faction may challenge for the position of ultimate Grandfather Nurgle and usurp the current holder? Or do we think that they are fixed and that is that?