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AgeOfEgos
15-08-2008, 21:58
I know...two seperate questions but I didn't want to multi-post. So here goes;

1. STC. What do these templates look like? Are they a computer...or? I want to construct one for an objective...but can't find any artwork.

2. Who did Horus have for a bodyguard on his ship? I'm looking for the equal of Custodes. It seems each Primarch had a legion specific retinue...so who did Horus have protecting him on the ship? For example;

Emperor Horus
Custodes ????
Imperial Fist Marines Chaos Space Marines


Thanks!

ctsteel
15-08-2008, 23:10
One of the black library short stories involves a backwater world that is recently rediscovered by the imperium, on that world is a large monastery with a group of monks who are the keepers of knowledge/technology for the planet.

Beneath the monastery, deep underground, is hidden a full STC library. Imagine a giant underground base type thing with computers and such. The monks (who have preserved it all this time) do not reveal it to the imperials as they do not trust them. But that is a full library so doesn't quite answer your question.

I'd imagine an STC template could be either the initial STC program that takes the required input and modifies the design, so sitting in some archaic piece of computer technology, or it could be the final output template, which could be in a data crystal, a physical printout in a book or etched in metal even. It somewhat depends on the template you have in mind as to how complex it is. For example, the plans for a leman russ - if you had the blueprints to build a car, complete with listing of materials/dimensions needed, construction diagrams, circuitry, how to build the engine etc - how much space would it take on the media you use? Paper - several big manuals I guess. Data disk/crystal - just one?

So I guess it's up to you how it looks, based on the type of STC and where you imagine it came from. As an objective counter you'd probably want something evocative so maybe a really ancient looking machine with a holographic interface or display screen showing some blueprint type sketches would give the right feel?

heretics bane
15-08-2008, 23:24
1.Basicly data slates that hold all the relative info on how to make,repair and service said object

2. He had a select few marines who made up his preatorian gaurd IIRC.

chaos0xomega
15-08-2008, 23:25
The impression I always had from the fluff was that these were some small hand-held devices (much like a star-trek tricorder) that had ridiculously large amounts of data programmed into it.

The fluff describes them as being given to colonists on far off worlds, and the STC's contained instructions that anyone with half a brain could use to build even the most complex machinery using whatever materials were available in their surroundings.

The book Dark Adeptus had an STC in it IIRC, but I'm not sure if they described what it looked like.

Archaon
15-08-2008, 23:33
I think an STC is a combination of many things.

STCs were developed for colonists to jumpstart their colony with barely any ressources of their own. It had to be adaptive, have vast storage capabilities and maybe even rudimentary production facilities.

I believe it's a full AI that has generic blueprints of almost anything the Imperium ever developed.. from toasters to void shield generators and it could adapt those to be built with local ressources.

Your world doesn't have enough precious metals for specialized designs? The AI will develop a suitable substitute out of metals this world has. You just give it samples it can analyze and after a processing time it will print out new designs or guide you how to build something.

It was developed so that even the most boneheaded colonist could assemble an antigrav unit and that may also be its flaw. People may have relied on it a bit too much neglecting their own scientific education. After all what's the point in learning all this complicated physics, chemical and mathematics stuff if you can follow all those pretty pictures and when you're done you have this workable skimmer.

screenmonkey
16-08-2008, 04:54
This is what your STC looks like or what I guess it might look like.

Brother Siccarius
16-08-2008, 07:04
I know...two seperate questions but I didn't want to multi-post. So here goes;

1. STC. What do these templates look like? Are they a computer...or? I want to construct one for an objective...but can't find any artwork.

Generally anything from a printout of blueprints (probably exceedingly large, and able to fill dozens of square feet of storage space), to a data slate, to what was once a fully functioning system that, due to degridation, now only has a very limited capability.

I can imagine a tech priest working on a damaged system...
"Oh holy machine spirits, we humbly awaken thee from thy slumber, and beg of your wisdom and knowledge to enlighten us. We answer your prompt for our command. Oh here me, and C:/DOS/Run!"

Of course, I think I've used the same prayer a few times myself...ahem...





2. Who did Horus have for a bodyguard on his ship? I'm looking for the equal of Custodes. It seems each Primarch had a legion specific retinue...so who did Horus have protecting him on the ship? For example;

Emperor Horus
Custodes ????
Imperial Fist Marines Chaos Space Marines


Thanks!

The Mournival as detailed in the first three of the Horus Heresy novels, most accurately his personal guard would have been the ones who sided with Horus in Galaxy in Flames. They were originally his company commanders and several other trusted fellows.


This is what your STC looks like or what I guess it might look like.

A suitcase nuke?

Lord of ???
16-08-2008, 07:44
Just make a small metal briefcase and attach it to the wrist of a courier (Have him dead or injured)

Instant retrieve the STC's info from the corpse (Or not depends how forgiving your side is)

andyg2006
16-08-2008, 09:32
STC's are Standard Template Constructs (or similar)...it's just something that tells you how to make ssomething else:
So it could be a huge library of books which eventually tell you how to make a better version of a Rhino's air-conditioning unit;
Or it could be a fully-functioning computer display with a hologram + cutaway diagrams, list of materials etc which tell you how to make an NBC-proof toaster.

You could just use a pile of books as the marker (or try to draw a computer diagram - but my detail work isn't too great, so I personally wouldn't try this), or maybe just make a wierd machine out of stuff from your bitz box (e.g. pipes, cables etc) and say that's the machine you're looking for?

Re. Horus' bodyguard:
It figures that all the Primarchs and heroes would have had some sort of retinue (e.g. veteran squads, and Terminator units). However, in the background, Horus is alone in his throne room when Sanguinius and (later) The Emperor find him. Horus might just have sent his guards out to delay the rest of the Imperial forces, but it seems unlikely that he really had a standing unit of 'bodyguards' as such; he was probably just attended to by the nearest squad at the time of battle. (After all, if your Primarch looks like they might be in trouble or says 'get over here', you'd better do it).

The Mournival is a selection of 4 Company Captains who traditionally advise the Chapter Master about policy and tactics and to keep him 'centred'. As such, the Mournival is usually made up of 4 different types of personality (e.g. bombastic, rational, etc), as too much of one type would be able to sway the Chapter Master's views too much in that direction.
Although (like the rest of the Legion) the Mournival members have fought alongside Horus and would step in if it looks like he's in peril, they are not his bodyguards, as they all act independently in charge of their respective companies.

ChrisMurray
16-08-2008, 10:07
If you've seen Star Wars episode 2, near the end when count Doku (sp?) retreats from the planet he's handed the plans for the death star as a small data sheet with a holgraphic progection.

For your indame marker you could make a base computer looking design, with an epic LR on top painted green to look like a holographic projection. Then just say it's a STC for a new land raider design or whatever.

Faustburg
16-08-2008, 11:26
Going by the Horus Heresy books, and doing some slight extrapolation and predictions to mesh it with earlier texts, it would seem like the Mournival falls apart during the heresy, and at the time of the final showdown on the battle barge in Terra's orbit, Horus has a bodyguard consisting of the cream of his Terminators led by Abaddon.

ChrisMurray
16-08-2008, 11:41
Wasn't Abaddon on Terra with the rest of the terminators? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that he was at the seige of the emperors palace.

screenmonkey
16-08-2008, 12:00
no not a suitcase nuke its a GECK. which is what the STC was described as.



google it.

Col. Tartleton
16-08-2008, 18:20
Horus had killed of half of his Mournival (sort of) leaving Abbaddon who was on board according to IA IIRC leading his black armored first company Justerin against the enemy.

A SoH company is like 600 men, so assuming the size of the first to be the same, their were 600 members of that company, but most served as veterans according to the art in showing the duel with the emperor, the terminators being seconded to a sub captain with the designation of squad suggesting the actual Justerin Terminators were only about 20 in number. The legion tended to spread out the Terminators and have a decent number of them (several squads per company IIRC) so perhaps about 1/10 or 1/20 of the legion wore the stuff.

So Horus was not with Abbaddon, but Abbaddon was onboard the ship.

HiveFleetEzekial
16-08-2008, 18:37
no not a suitcase nuke its a GECK. which is what the STC was described as.



google it.



While a good plug, a Garden (of) Eden Creation Kit isn't quite what an STC is. I took the description of it as being 'everything one needed to (re)create a paradise'. Not just simply an instruction manual with helpful blueprints, which are what most basic STCs tend to be.

STCs still require the user to actually do something.

The G.E.C.K. just required going off on a long, seemingly pointless journey, only to end up too late to save one's own village; fight an enclave to free them, possibly kill a whole bunch of mutants and radiated zombies known as Ghouls, along the way, while semi-simultaniously joining a fraternity of guys that seem to love nothing but steel (and big guns!), and join/kill of/instigate rebellion in another vault; use, by, and/or sell drugs along the way; become a pimp or the pimped; save and/or kill of many other villages along the way as well. Once found however a G.E.C.K. is supposed to do 99% if not all of the work for the user once opened. :D

screenmonkey
16-08-2008, 18:52
While a good plug, a Garden (of) Eden Creation Kit isn't quite what an STC is. I took the description of it as being 'everything one needed to (re)create a paradise'. Not just simply an instruction manual with helpful blueprints, which are what most basic STCs tend to be.

STCs still require the user to actually do something.

The G.E.C.K. just required going off on a long, seemingly pointless journey, only to end up too late to save one's own village; fight an enclave to free them, possibly kill a whole bunch of mutants and radiated zombies known as Ghouls, along the way, while semi-simultaniously joining a fraternity of guys that seem to love nothing but steel (and big guns!), and join/kill of/instigate rebellion in another vault; use, by, and/or sell drugs along the way; become a pimp or the pimped; save and/or kill of many other villages along the way as well. Once found however a G.E.C.K. is supposed to do 99% if not all of the work for the user once opened. :D

The word is Mcguffin.
but through stories about the GECK it seems to be a terrra former it isn't actually a paradise in box.
(long version)

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/GECK

(Short Version)
The GECK is actaully a device disigned not for rehabiting the Earth but actually with space colonization in mind. It includes a soil analyzation device seeds, a fusion generator, and the entire sum of humanities knowlege stored in high capaicity data stacks. It also comes included with a AI that guiedes you on how to make stuff such as forcefields and tractors. It also icludes a pen flash light.

chaos0xomega
16-08-2008, 19:07
I see Fallout Mania has already taken it's hold...

ctsteel
16-08-2008, 22:40
Horus had killed of half of his Mournival (sort of) leaving Abbaddon who was on board according to IA IIRC leading his black armored first company Justerin against the enemy.

[snip]
So Horus was not with Abbaddon, but Abbaddon was onboard the ship.


I would have expected Abaddon to be on another ship or on the ground - as the emperor and his forces fought their way to the bridge of that ship, killing as they went, and actually killed Horus, I don't imagine Abaddon just standing around in the cargo bay ignoring the warning sirens and orders to intercept the intruders.

Also since the emperor was grievously wounded, and Rogal Dorn came along later and took him back to the golden throne, the ship evidently didn't go anywhere when the battle was ended and the chaos forces retreated. Which would have meant Abaddon couldn't have escaped at the time. So he must have been somewhere else.

The Anarchist
16-08-2008, 23:58
Abadon as a small side note was deffinatly on Horus's battle barge at the time of the battle between the Big E and Horus. he felt the death of the Warmaster and rushed to the bridge where Horus had fallen, we know that he then took the Warmasters lightning claw from his body and then ordered the imediate withdrawl of the Sons of Horus from the battle.

in reference to the idea of Primarchs bodygaurds, it does seem Horus didn't have any. he had the Mournival, this however was a advisory body and at time a political tool for him, other primarchs we have seen had some sort of advisory group or selection of individuals. but the only primach we know had set bodygaurds his Mortarion of the Deathgaurd, whilst this seems strange it might be attributed to the personality and varriosu upbringings of the primarchs and their own sense of hubris.

jsut my two cents.

Col. Tartleton
17-08-2008, 02:55
But there were the Justerin Terminator Squad, who were the most elite of the legion, so they were probably in effect a larger guard under their captain who was in turn overseen by FC Abaddon.

So it would have been like the masters of the Chapter data sheet: (IIRC)

+Horus

-Ezykyle Abaddon
-Tarik Torgadden
-Horus Aximand
-Garviel Loken

-20 Justerin Terminators

HiveFleetEzekial
17-08-2008, 22:14
I see Fallout Mania has already taken it's hold...

Whad'ya mean 'already'? I've been adicted to the series since fallout 2 came out (and finaly got ahold of a copy of 1). And am anxiously waiting 3.

AgeOfEgos
18-08-2008, 22:22
Abadon as a small side note was deffinatly on Horus's battle barge at the time of the battle between the Big E and Horus. he felt the death of the Warmaster and rushed to the bridge where Horus had fallen, we know that he then took the Warmasters lightning claw from his body and then ordered the imediate withdrawl of the Sons of Horus from the battle.

in reference to the idea of Primarchs bodygaurds, it does seem Horus didn't have any. he had the Mournival, this however was a advisory body and at time a political tool for him, other primarchs we have seen had some sort of advisory group or selection of individuals. but the only primach we know had set bodygaurds his Mortarion of the Deathgaurd, whilst this seems strange it might be attributed to the personality and varriosu upbringings of the primarchs and their own sense of hubris.

jsut my two cents.

Well, others had elite retinues too. Fulgrim had the Phoenix Guard, Ferrus had his own 'Justerin' though their name escapes me. I can't recall if Dorn had one...

I guess I'll just make heresy terminators and call them Horus Justerins?

Nazguire
19-08-2008, 03:56
Bodyguards I can remember:

Fulgrim= Phoenix Guard
Rogal Dorn= Huskarls
Angron= Devourers
Mortarion= Deathshroud
Magnus= Scarab Occult (I think...)

Chainsworded Codpiece
19-08-2008, 15:34
The Horus Heresy Artbooks seem to imply that Horus had a bodyguard separate from any Mournival, Justaerin, or any other type already mentioned in the thread.

They were of regualr Marine-armor stature, it appears, but were rather badass-looking.

The picture I recall had them armed with Chain/Poweraxes and Bolters, and done up in somewhat "savage" accoutrements, accessories that made them look across between Spacer'inos and some MesoAmerican jaguar warriors out for a ritual battle.


Now, having said that, there is NO mention of these guys in the novel Horus Rising.

It's possible they were actually a parade honor guard only.

It's possible they went back to the Justaerin, or got reassigned by Horus, when the Legion became the Sons of Horus vs. Luna Wolves. Y'know, Horus felt that his new position required a little more "Imperium" and a little less "Cthonia" imagery. He felt he had to "class it up", so to speak.

It's possible John Blanche's idea just never made it out of the artbook. ;)

heretics bane
26-08-2008, 15:05
I think they are simliar to a Geobot, from GOW.http://gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Geobot

x-esiv-4c
26-08-2008, 15:19
I always imagined the STCS to be basically a GECK.

Nazguire
26-08-2008, 15:37
The Horus Heresy Artbooks seem to imply that Horus had a bodyguard separate from any Mournival, Justaerin, or any other type already mentioned in the thread.

They were of regualr Marine-armor stature, it appears, but were rather badass-looking.

The picture I recall had them armed with Chain/Poweraxes and Bolters, and done up in somewhat "savage" accoutrements, accessories that made them look across between Spacer'inos and some MesoAmerican jaguar warriors out for a ritual battle.


Now, having said that, there is NO mention of these guys in the novel Horus Rising.

It's possible they were actually a parade honor guard only.

It's possible they went back to the Justaerin, or got reassigned by Horus, when the Legion became the Sons of Horus vs. Luna Wolves. Y'know, Horus felt that his new position required a little more "Imperium" and a little less "Cthonia" imagery. He felt he had to "class it up", so to speak.

It's possible John Blanche's idea just never made it out of the artbook. ;)


I remember the image you are speaking of. But that image was when the Horus Heresy had begun, so the reason you put forward is automatically wrong unfortunately. I think that they have simply been replaced by the Justaerin, who are a lot more bad ass anyways, judging by the description.

When you have a choice from a 'brutish, hulking figure of the Justaerin Terminators, lightning claws crackling out of their sheaths' (something to that effect in the novels)) or a squad of Marines with a few pelts and chaos standards, I'd take the Terminators anyday.

Brother Valtarius
08-09-2008, 10:29
!!!!SPOILER!!!!










In one of the earlier Gaunts Ghosts novels, pretty sure its the second one but could be the third they find an STC that can create iron men it is described as a large machine/computer with like a sort of delivery hatch that once activated just keeps pumping out whatever it set to make. Due to a close proximity with chaos the STC machine has become tainted and its products are also tainted. But basically a big (i imagine) CNC miller tell it what to do and its does it.

In the earlier HH books Horus has the Mounival which is like his private council/body guards as it describes Abbadon having beserker rages whilst extracting Horus from a human/Kinebranch world.

Dvil
08-09-2008, 10:57
Ferrus had his own 'Justerin' though their name escapes me.

The Morlocks, named after a predator from their home planet.

Col. Tartleton
08-09-2008, 20:32
The entire First Company wore black armor with gold trim. They also wore Horus' Personal Icon,the red Eye of Terra on their left breast and right shoulder. Armed with chain axes and bolters they look a grim bunch. (Entirely based on a mix of known knowledge and the current artwork of Horus and the Emperor.)

Those are the marines your talking about I think.

The Justerin were either the terminators of the First, or a specific squad of the First terminators.

So:

Commander: Horus- Luna Wolves

First Captain: Ezekyle Abaddon- The First Company

Justaerin Captain: Falkus Kibre- The Justaerin Squad/All Terminators of the First Company

The Justaerin being in fact, Horus' personal guards whereas the first was a larger unit under Abbaddon who served Horus as a bit of a champion I believe.

The other 3 mournival captains were not directly his guardians, although of course they'd die for him.

Argastes
08-09-2008, 21:01
In one of the earlier Gaunts Ghosts novels, pretty sure its the second one but could be the third they find an STC that can create iron men it is described as a large machine/computer with like a sort of delivery hatch that once activated just keeps pumping out whatever it set to make. Due to a close proximity with chaos the STC machine has become tainted and its products are also tainted. But basically a big (i imagine) CNC miller tell it what to do and its does it.

That contraption might have included STC information (specifically, the designs and manufacturing procedures for the iron men it was churning out), but the whole thing was not an STC. An STC is not an automated factory or anything like that. STCs are bodies of data. They are collections of information. They don't do or make anything, they tell people how to do and make things. An STC does not manufacture iron men, nuclear reactors, or farm implements; an STC contains blueprints for such things. Think of it this way: The machine producing the iron men is like a printer, the STC system is like the software telling your printer what to print. The printer (automated factory) is not the same thing as the software describing what it's printing (STC data).

As several people have pointed out already in this thread, since STCs are just collections of information, they may be stored in any media. STC information could be stored in the memory of a computer system, in some sort of futuristic equivalent of CD-ROMs (holo-discs, data-crystals, whatever), or in printed manuals. There is no single appearance or physical form of an STC. An STC "looks like" whatever data storage media it is stored on.

Wazzahamma
09-09-2008, 08:16
didn't horus rising detail horus' bodyguards as men in custodes armour? either custodes themselves or astartes in custodes gear...

imperial_scholar
09-09-2008, 14:41
I can't find any descriptions of a STC. But its a generic term. I'm sure an STC for a baneblade wouldn't look like the STC for a shovel.

I think mostly though that they would be a building and would be entirely self contained with servo arms and/or cranes all over. I also imagine it would look like it could be collapsed and moved. Maybe a self constructing building.