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Kronos
16-08-2008, 14:15
Hello I'm getting quite tempted to start Blood Bowl, seems like a rather fun game and can be relativley cheap. The new vc plastics look really good and i was wondering how i would go about making a team from them

So what I'm asking for is a little short break down as to what i would need for a an all rounded Undead team team, mainly units that i would be able to make. So far I'm thinking of making a khemri team, using new skellies and then converting some of the corpse cart zombies into mummies.


Edit: forgot to mention, a little breakdown of blood bowl itself would be very useful too, because I'm just starting to read the rule book.



Thanks in advance :)

Krootman
16-08-2008, 19:08
hello, blood bowl is a great game it has a lot of tactics like fantasy but it requires luck too which keeps the game fresh but you could play A Perfect game and still lose so if you don't like the idea of a Fee bad dice rolls costing you the game then bb might not be for u.

As far as undead teams go I only have experence with the Neceo team and the best way to play them is
Crowd a sideline and run the ball in. Warewolfs are fast and along with wrights are great for clearing the way. Ghouls are the best runners though because they don't have frenzy. Flesh goulms and zombies are good for holding down the line also.

Hope this helps and welcome to blood bowl

Marlow
16-08-2008, 22:33
Welocome to Blood Bowl!

I would not recomend the Khemri team for a beginner because the aim of the game is to win by scoring Touchdowns (it after all an Ultra-Violent American Football game) and the whole Khemri team has below average Agility which makes anything to do with the ball harder.

A standard Undead team can still have lots of Skeletons (they are nice and cheap) as well as some specialist players. You can have following -

Two Mummies - All wrapped up in Bandages very strong but slow moving they smash the opponents out of the way.

Two Wights - Think Heavily Armoured Skeletons or Death Knights. They are very good in combat and have average Ball handing

Four Ghouls - Flesh eating degerates who are fast moving and agile. Weakness is they are the only player on the team that does not Regenerate from wounds.

Cirrus the Blue
17-08-2008, 01:46
I agree with Marlow in the fact that Undead teams - albeit practically un-killable - are more of an advanced choice for the game as opposed to other teams I'd reccomend beforehand such as Humans or Pro Elves (Pro Elves have mostly the same positions as the Humans without the Ogre and are overall just a little bit better).

The big downside though with Undead is that they tend to get KO'd easily and this can do more harm to a match than putting your whole team into the Dead and Injured box. :p Regenerate is their trademark skill and there's little that's more annoying for an opponent than to successfully injure a player only to have him stand right back up on the pitch as though the hit didn't really even happen in the first place. KO's are harder to deal with for an Undead team as it's a guarantee that it gets the players off the field. Don't get me wrong, Undead's a great choice, but the low agility sucks for making plays work unless you really know what you're doing when moving your guys into good positions.

Overall, it's a maddening game highly due to the luck factor, but arguably, the luck factor can have just as much a part in any game of Warhammer or BFG or anything as it does with this. It's just more directly noticable in a game of Blood Bowl. ;) Pretty well, you're rolling for every action you take besides basic movement such as dodging, picking up the ball, throwing the ball, catching the ball, going for it (running just a little bit faster), blocking, etc. and to start with, it relies highly on your Team Re-Rolls that you purchase at the beginning of your team creation. Skills come later generally for teams that have statistic bonuses to start with as opposed to some other teams which have skill bonuses to start with.

It's pretty intricate and much of the time relies on the utilization of a specific players' skills to manipulate dice rolling so that plays succeed, but that's a rather broad generalization of the game if anything. Over the years it's only got better and more balanced and this is the best edition they've brought out for it yet - hands down. The only thing I've never liked about the game is the Illegal Procedure rule. It's like 'why the hell should I give up my last re-roll or my entire turn simply because I forgot to do something that doesn't even deal with the game mechanics directly to begin with besides keeping track of the turn counter that should already be built into the game without such extreme penalties anyway?!'. I was in a league that abolished it practically altogether and it was great. Before that, I kept losing games only because my opponents took advantage of a cheezy rule and I didn't get to take my turns that I should've been entitled to in the first place, which kind of sucks. *shrug* If that rule was removed, then it'd be perfect. :) Put it this way: What if in Warhammer if you forgot to vocally announce your Charge Phase that was already written into the rules and turn sequence but that you suddenly lost your whole rest of your turn over that all by itself, or something else horrendously crippling to your chances of any kind of a fair victory. That'd sorta epically suck, huh? Not really any different for Illegal Procedure. I think it's a crummy rule, so talk to your opponent beforehand over it and choose to use it or not so that they don't just slap it in your face during a friendly 1-off match unexpectedly. ;)

Rant rant rant, yeah, yeah. Back on track. hehe The good part about 1-off games to start with is that rarely (if ever) you will encounter an 'unbeatable' team at the starting level in the way that nobody's going to be bringing out any unstoppable powerhouse super star characters on their team that can make 1-turn Touchdowns or cut your guys in half with 3 dice all on his own with Claw, Mighty Blow, and Piling On, or any other nasty surprises. You get what's on the roster, nothing more, nothing less. Only problem with that is that you're at the same disadvantage. However, even if you were a million points below another team, this only means you get a million points of juicy inducements the other team CAN'T TAKE!! Special Star Players, extra Apothecaries, Re-Rolls, Position Players, Special Play Cards *drool*... haha But this keeps things balanced and it's honestly the best way to pick up the game and get comfortable with the game mechanics before going into league play - which is all kinds of awesome fun, but far more complicated, and not just for the extra skills. It gets plenty tougher to strategize with so many extra variables not only on the opponent's team, but on your own, too.

Anyway, I could go on and on for a very long time over probably far too much regarding the game, but I'll leave you with a warm and friendly welcome to the maddening chaos that is Blood Bowl and may Nuffle smile on your team! Any questions in particular, post 'em up and we'll be happy to help answer them.

- Cirrus

Marlow
17-08-2008, 17:55
Regenerate is their trademark skill and there's little that's more annoying for an opponent than to successfully injure a player only to have him stand right back up on the pitch as though the hit didn't really even happen in the first place. KO's are harder to deal with for an Undead team as it's a guarantee that it gets the players off the fieldNot sure which vertion you are playing, however Players that Regenerate are still taken off the pitch with the current rules, so an Injury is as good as a KO in that respect.


If the player suffers a Casualty result on the Injury table, then roll a D6 for Regeneration after the roll on the Casualty table and after any Apothecary roll if allowed. On a result of 1-3, the player suffers the result of this injury. On a 4-6, the player will heal the injury after a short period of time to 're-organise' himself, and is placed in the Reserves box instead.

Cirrus the Blue
17-08-2008, 18:28
Ahhhhh that's my bad. Took a closer look just now at both Regen and Apothecaries and I'm completely positive they had that back in LRB4 where you just place him prone on the field if the Apothecary succeeded (happens that way on fumbbl which uses LRB4) and I guess it was just a difficult habbit to break when LRB5 came around. :p haha Actually, it's a good thing they changed it to the Reserves Box for that fact because Undead teams got kind of cheezy that way when the only way to effectively take a guy off the pitch was to either KO him or send him crowd surfing. Thanks for pointing that out, Marlow. :)

All that aside, however, Regenerate is still really good.

- Cirrus

Kronos
17-08-2008, 23:53
Thanks for the help guys, and a big thanks to Virrius for the little breakdown and advice.


I think i wont make an undead team actually (give a break from the vc army I'm making. And i might actually make either a Chaos dwarf team or a dark elf team, though the dark elves seem to look more appealing at the moment (lovely new plastics to play around with :)).


I wont be amking the team for a while though because i want to also give a go at Mordheim first.

Again thanks for the input :)

Marlow
18-08-2008, 08:00
Dark Elves can be a quite Brutal team, they have Four Blitzers and Two Witch Elves as well as decent Line Elves. Like most Elf teams they are expensive players so you can not start with a full complement of positional players on a starting team.

They are slightly harder to play than other Elf teams as they have neither Catch nor Pass on any starting player.

spevna
18-08-2008, 09:30
Dark Elves are pricey but they are a pretty good team. One guy plays them in our league and they are pretty kick-****.

Chaos Dwarves are ok but a little slow and get the rough end of the stick when compared to their non chaotic brothers who benefit from almost the whole team having the black skill and much cheaper rerolls.

I think that if you want to start BB you should think about the kind of game you want your team to play. Lots of running and passing? Go with Elves or Skaven (gutter runners are insane). If you want to just beat the other team black and blue then Orcs and Chaos are good, dwarves too.

stampy
18-08-2008, 21:33
If you want to just beat the other team black and blue then Orcs and Chaos are good, dwarves too.

Or a lizardmen team with 6 saurus and a kroxigor

Kronos
19-08-2008, 00:08
Well looking through my bits box I've realised i have enough pieces to make about 6 Skaven and a rat ogre, would they fair well, well about how many more skaven do i need (they are the moulders btw because i can't stand clanrat warrior models but i quite like these, perhaps i could use these as blitzers and then pick up a box of plague monks and convert them to linemen/linerats) what do you think, i quite like the fast paced tactics of the Skaven team.

Marlow
19-08-2008, 16:30
Well looking through my bits box I've realised i have enough pieces to make about 6 Skaven and a rat ogre, would they fair well, well about how many more skaven do i need
The minimum would be 10 Skaven + Ratty, however you would most likly want about 12 Skaven + Ratty for your Team.


(they are the moulders btw because i can't stand clanrat warrior models but i quite like these, perhaps i could use these as blitzers and then pick up a box of plague monks and convert them to linemen/linerats) what do you think, i quite like the fast paced tactics of the Skaven team.
Skaven are a good fun team, especially as they have access to Mutations! :)
Plague Monks as Linerats could look quite good! :evilgrin:

You will want Models for the following -
Two Blitzers
Two Throwers (One will do, but it is nice to have both)
Four Gutter Runners
Five or Six Line Rats

Ixquic
08-10-2008, 02:09
I'm really trying to figure out how to play undead but I just can't. It seems like a team that has terrible or overpriced players but relies on regeneration to get by and make up for that which is a real gamble.

-Mummies are good, but they don't have access to block and have movement 3 so are easily avoided, or ganged up on and knocked down by enemy blizters, afterwich they have to go for it to even movea space.

-Wights are decent but you can only get two.

-Ghouls again are decent but don't have access to passing skills to help a throwing game. Also since undead can't get apothecaries any injury roll on a ghoul can't be rerolled so they die often.

-Skeletons and Zombies are just horrible. They are cheap, but either can't get where they need to go, help with any ball handling, hope to dodge away from opponents or have bad armor in the case of skeletons.

I've tried doing the cage but it just seems that my guys suck enough that a player can be picked off and knocked out/killed each turn, my heavy hitters taken down by guys with block and everyone else just creamed. The ball is then taken and run into the end zone. I'm totally missing something here since people say that the team is good but I just don't get it. A 50% chance to not die doesn't seem worth a team with bad stats and no apothecary to save your most important players (the ghoul ball handlers). It just doesn't feel like it can hack it against hitty teams since other than the mummies everyone is weak and can't break armor and it can't get a passing game going without lucky rolling and getting ghouls passing skills. Since zombies and skeletons don't do anything they don't skill up resulting in weak lines later in the season compared to other teams.

Any help would be really great.

Marlow
08-10-2008, 13:14
Undead are in fact the best bashy team in BB, just not the easiest to start out!

You need to flank your Mummies so opponents can not gang up on them, give them Guard and Stand Firm so they stay in place and hope for that lucky Double to give them Block. You also need to have enough players spread out that if the opponent gets the ball you can get someone to blitz a ball carrier in your back field.

Zombies/Skeletons are mainly for road blocks they are cheap and stand around forcing oppenents to risk dodgeing or throwing a block that may not help. They should also be used for fouling as you want to get the oppoenents off the pitch as quickly as possible.

Not having a healer is what balances the team. If they could keep Ghouls alive as well as regenerate the rest of the team they would have almost no chance of loosing players.

Ixquic
08-10-2008, 13:31
Thanks for the advise. I was getting frustrated since every Undead strat seems to revolve around mummies and giving them block as their first skill which isn't an option anymore. If just seems like lizard men for instance can get block, guard, strength 4 and armor 9 on up to 6 guys with only two skill ups so I don't see how to get around them to get to their weaker guys unless I can hope to get block on the mummies through luck.

Would a good skill choice route in the latest edition be something like this?

Mummy -> Guard, Stand Firm, ??? (block on doubles)

Wight -> Guard, Tackle, Mighty Blow (dodge on doubles?)

Ghoul (ball handler) -> Sure hands, sure feet (pass on doubles?)
Ghoul (basher) -> Block, strip ball, ??? (guard on doubles?)

Tennboy
08-10-2008, 15:49
Stop trying to develop a pass game with your ghouls and just stick to the run. Also, forget the idea of a Bashy Ghoul, leave that to your Wights

Ghouls - Block, Side Step or Sure Hands (depending on the amount of players with strip ball), and Fend (if LRB5)

Wights - Tackle, Strip Ball (dodge on doubles)

Mummies - Break Tackle, Multiple Block, Stand Firm or Grab (block on doubles)

Zombies - Dirty Player, block (guard on doubles)

Darkson
08-10-2008, 17:13
With undead, I'd take a couple of skellies, and give them DP rather than zombies.

Tennboy
08-10-2008, 18:49
Ya, I guess the extra MV on the skellies helps getting him over to foul a downed opponent.

Marlow
09-10-2008, 11:40
Take three Zombies for the line and get them Block and a couple of Skellies for fouling and give them Dirty Player.

My Necro team has a Ghoul with Side Step and Guard and that works quite well. You can always get an assist if you need to bash someone away from the Ghoul and they are quite mobile. Ghouls are best as runners so I ignore passing skills on Doubles.