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Aeneas
17-08-2008, 05:03
Over on one of the Space Wolves rumor threads I mentioned that I wished they would produce a codex that was Codex: Space Wolves in one direction but when you flipped it over it was Codex: Thousand Sons.

Someone asked what other pairings would work and rather than taking that thread off topic I decided to start this thread.

I have paired each of the good/evil first founding chapters. Only a few would be good codex pairings but it was still a fun list to make and I thought others might be interested.

First pairing would be the one that started it
Space Wolves - Thousand Sons
Their linked history and differences in their "tactical philosophy" makes this the most thematically interesting pairing and why I think it would make a good codex.

Ultramarines - Black Legion
They are both the base, so to speak, of their respective factions but because of that wouldn't make a good paired codex.
It is another interesting pairing though in that the Ultramarines use only certain "codex" items and the Black Legion takes whatever they can (berzerkers, plague marines, etc.)

Blood Angels - World Eaters
Both have a close combat bent with frothing madmen.
In the background Sanguinius fights a bloodthirster so there's a start. I also remember reading, Index Astartes I think, about Horus using their rivalry to push them to new heights of killyness.
Would make a great linked PDF.

Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors
Dueling seige masters. Rather than a linked codex maybe a new version of Warhammer: Seige for 40k with a special scenario of that battle from the Index (the cage? not sure as the book is upstairs)

I don't think the rest really work as paired codexes but they still make interesting pairings and I had to finish the list

Iron Hands - Emperor's Children
Perfection of body.

Salamanders - Death Guard
Short ranged fire fights, not much fast attack.

White Scars - Night Lords
Fast guys.

Raven Guard - Alpha Legion
Sneaky guys.

Dark Angels - Word Bearers
Well, Word Bearers have lots of Dark Apostles, who are like chaplains, and chaplain is another name for priest, and a certain type of priest is a monk, and monks typically wear robes, and Dark Angels wear robes.

Well that was a fun little list to do.

sydbridges
17-08-2008, 05:31
Ultramarines - Black Legion
They are both the base, so to speak, of their respective factions but because of that wouldn't make a good paired codex.
It is another interesting pairing though in that the Ultramarines use only certain "codex" items and the Black Legion takes whatever they can (berzerkers, plague marines, etc.)

Dark Angels - Word Bearers
Well, Word Bearers have lots of Dark Apostles, who are like chaplains, and chaplain is another name for priest, and a certain type of priest is a monk, and monks typically wear robes, and Dark Angels wear robes.

Well that was a fun little list to do.

I'd consider pairing the Word Bearers and Ultramarines since they paired off for a fight during the HH, with the WB's attempting to either conquer the UMs or wipe them out and the UMs resisting.

That'd leave you with the DA and the BL to pair off... How much of the Sons of Horus had to be eliminated at Istvaan? If it was about half, you could pair them off saying that they both turned about half evil, and both wiped out or are currently wiping out their other halves.

SockMonkey
17-08-2008, 16:49
I would personally rather see;

Codex SM (Codex Chapters)
Codex Astartes (non Codex Chapters)
Codex Chaos Legions (TS,DG ect)

Lord Zarkov
17-08-2008, 19:18
Shouldn't Codex Astartes be for the Codex Chapters?

Waaagh Grignak
17-08-2008, 19:35
How about no more flippping marine books till everyone else gets a new book!

Ddraiglais
17-08-2008, 19:38
I'd go a bit further than that. Why not do these codices for more groups? The siege codex could included IW, IF, and DKoK for example. Another example could be a lightning warfare type codex. You could include White Scars, Night Lords, Saim Hain, Speed Freaks, and either Tallarn or a D99 list. For the BA and WE dex you suggested, you could also include a Farsight list.

TheLionReturns
17-08-2008, 20:15
Here are a few alternative suggestions.

Dark Angels and Alpha Legion.
Both are very secretive and their motives difficult to fathom. The Alpha Legion are a series of small cells operating within the Imperium, whereas the DA and the rest of the unforgiven chapters are a network seeking small cells and hunting them in secret. Yes the DA hunt the Fallen rather than the Alpha Legion but they do seem suitable opponents in terms of combat doctrine. This one could work well with Alpha Legion rules being useful for making a Fallen army (ie few elites space marines with manipulated cultists).

Black Templars and Word Bearers.
Both pretty zealous. Word Bearers for me would perhaps be what the Black Templars despise the most, yet the origins of the Word Bearers heresy is rooted in fanatical devotion to the Emperor. Are the Black Templars the Word Bearers without the Emperors rejection?

Space Wolves and World Eaters.
Both eschew detailed tactical planning in favor of a quick brawl.

Raven Guard and Night Lords.
Both dedicated to mobile precision strikes for maximum disruption. The Night Lords disrupt through terror, whilst the Raven Guard hit infrastructure. Planetfall style codex perhaps.

Without wishing to speak on behalf of the OP I don't think this thread is really meant to be about the codexes we would like to see next, simply if you were to pair Marines and Chaos Marines in one dex what would be interesting pairings. I don't think anyone would argue that these ideas should come ahead of say a Dark Eldar update.

totgeboren
17-08-2008, 20:32
who are the "World Bearers"?

I guess you mean the Word Bearers? (just something i get really annoyed about. How hard can it be to read the entire word and not just the first letter? Lots of people do this particular misreading.)

But yes, Black Templar and Word Bearers are kinda different sides of the same coin, being extremely religious. I would buy that book. :)

Its abit tricky pairing the Word Bearers. Fluffwise, they hated the Ultramarines and fought them the most, but tactically they are not paired at all. As said, the Black Legion and the UM are more of a match, but they dont have any fluff that would bind them together like that.

So its more of a question if you should match the legions with the closest doctrines (Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists, Blood Angels and World Eaters and so on), or if it should be fluffbased, like making a codex about the conflict between the Thousand Sons and the Space Wolves.

olmsted
17-08-2008, 20:44
How about no more flippping marine books till everyone else gets a new book!

agreed. ale and mutton is in the mail

even though i love the space wolves. no more marines until the dark eldar get a new codex. its been almost 5-10 years and by god i think they are the oldest codex around.

TheLionReturns
17-08-2008, 21:40
who are the "World Bearers"?

I guess you mean the Word Bearers? (just something i get really annoyed about. How hard can it be to read the entire word and not just the first letter?)


Apologies, I do skim over my posts to check for spelling errors but its easy to miss the ones that are a correct spelling but of the wrong word. I've corrected it.

SockMonkey
18-08-2008, 05:18
Shouldn't Codex Astartes be for the Codex Chapters?

Oh I am sure you are right, but you get the idea no?

Burning Star IV
18-08-2008, 06:04
I like:

Word Bearers - Black Templars
Alpha Legion - Dark Angels
Iron Warriors - Imperial Fists
Black Legion - Ultramarines
Night Lords - Raven Guard
World Eaters - Blood Angels
Emperor's Children - Iron Hands
Death Guard - Salamanders

and then, eschewing the obvious "different sides of the same coin" (for the most part) reasoning of the aforementioned matches,

Thousand Sons - Space Wolves

White scars could be completely ignored and I'd be fine. I'm fervently uninterested in them.

totgeboren
18-08-2008, 09:50
Dont you think the Alpha Legion and the Raven Guard are a better match? Both like the sneaky stuff, getting the right people at the right place at the right time tactic.

Night Lords and the White Scars are also well matched, using quick shock and awe tactics, thought the Night Lords tactics might better be called "Shock and Terror". ;)

Seeing as how the half-hearted Dark Angels didnt know what side to pick, they would be best paired with Renegades, since non-chaos renegades are often mentioned in the fluff. They would match the DA well I think, since you have the DA who almost turned to chaos buy stayed loyal, and the renegades who almost turned to chaos but didn't stay loyal.
Dark Angels - Renegades

TheLionReturns
18-08-2008, 10:32
Both Dark Angels-Alpha Legion and Raven Guard-Alpha Legion seem good fits to me.

I like the idea of the Dark Angels paired with renegades too. You could argue that Ultramarines represent the standard for marines and renegades (by new fluff) the standard for chaos marines, but I think given the Dark Angels history, DA and renegades is a better fit.

If you expanded slightly beyond SM you could alternatively pair Dark Angels with LatD. Having a sprinkling of chaos marines leading a guard based force with chaos elements is a good way to represent the fallen, and would also be good for those who collected LatD armies.

It would be good to be able to build a LatD list that was simply rebellious but otherwise uncorrupted (I guess like Astellan's in Angels of Darkness), or one that was heavily chaos influenced with mutants etc.

Satan
18-08-2008, 10:35
I like the OP's list, but in any case, I'd state that this is a good and quite cool idea.

Whitehorn
18-08-2008, 10:41
Codex Dark Eldar... flip reverse to 'Coming in 2012'