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Fire Harte
18-08-2008, 00:50
...Highly Intelligent People.

Lets face it, a majority of gamers can create their own background and fluff, of which most is decent, analyse battle fields. They also put up pretty good arguements (Like many here!) and can generally have intellectual conversations of which you can't with most of those who are outside our community.

Also, most of the gamers and hobbyists who I know who keep at 40k, fantasy and Lotr are damn clever. I know I am, and almost all of you are!

I believe that most would agree with me, but if you believe I am wrong, please state so.

Also if this thread is in the wrong place, could a mod please move it to the right place.

edit- also i may get a bit of stick for the thread title, my mistake!

onnotangu
18-08-2008, 01:00
your title and topic don't make much sense.

GW pretty much provides for all aspect of Warhammer fluff, background, rules and models.

so what exactly is your complaint/beef/observation?

Captin Korea!
18-08-2008, 01:01
I do agree, although some of the people I play with intelligent is questionable at best.

Fire Harte
18-08-2008, 01:11
Ok maybe not everyone is Highly Intelligent, but its a majority who stay on and continue to create fanfic and the like.

@ onnontangu, sorry, I'm a tad bit tired, but I have noticed that GW has certainly got a notable portion of people who are clever. I mean fan fic can come from anyone, and golden daemon requires a lot of brains to convert a model.

Hellebore
18-08-2008, 02:19
It's certainly a more cerebral hobby than, say, the football (any and all codes).

Although admittedly it does take some skill to assemble a beer hat followed by a high degree of coordination to imbibe alcohol from said cranial apparatus whilst viewing grown men headbutting each other. Inebriation is the name of the game after all. ;)

Hellebore

Seth the Dark
18-08-2008, 02:57
I do like the fact that so much creativity can be put into the hobby. It really lets a person work their creativity.

PotatoLegs
18-08-2008, 03:09
And come up with creative ways to creatively use creative in creative sentences!

I see as many stupid people involved in this hobby as there are smart ones. Annoying and spiteful, as well as generous and gracious. Same as any other thing I've been involved in throughout my life

sigur
18-08-2008, 03:49
I agree with PotatoLegs. There's about the same percentage of idiots and clever people (as you claim to be) in the hobby. So I don't second your observation that people who spend their time with GW systems are more clever than others. It's always hard and somewhat dangerous to tell if certain groups are more or less clever than others, isn't it?

Nero
18-08-2008, 05:33
Heh heh, hehehehe, hahahahahaha!

No, sorry, it's *heh* a good point. All 40k gamers are obviously automatically intelligent, thoughtful people because they collect plastic army men and *snerk* AHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face!

Slaaneshi Slave
18-08-2008, 08:07
In my experience most intelligent people do not go around announcing that they are intelligent. It is generally evidence to the contrary.

Ward.
18-08-2008, 08:40
In my experience most wise people do not go around announcing that they are intelligent. It is generally evidence to the contrary.

Fixed, sorta ;)

In my experience the slightly intelligent people are the ones that yell about it the loudest.

I'd like to agree with the OP but I've seen some unbelievably stupid people in this hobby, no offence intended to those people though, there's nothing wrong with not being smart.

Suicide Messiah
18-08-2008, 08:45
I agree with Hellebore. This hobby includes painting, sculpting, writing, drawing as well as generally being creative. Youll find most people into wargaming, roleplaying, model making are pretty well read too.

That said ive seen football fans as thick as **** pull out a bit of maths from nowhere to work out points and league positions five games away.

Warpcrafter
18-08-2008, 10:02
I've played against paint-sniffing thirteen year-olds who mock others for actually knowing the rules and potheads who don't care that they are fielding high elves and orcs in the same army, but I've also played against medical students and accountants. One of the accountants is my nephew, who is also a student of military history. If anybody beats him in any wargame, that's a sure sign that that game's rules are seriously broken because his knowledge of and ability to apply tactics has been honed to a high art. On the other hand, his apartment is a pigsty and his favorite side-dish is the 55 cent macaroni and cheese with the fake cheese powder. The point to all of this is that nobody can be categorized so simply.

Plastic Rat
18-08-2008, 10:03
Yeah, agree with the OP. The distinction is clear. I tried teaching my cat to play 40k. He just couldn't understand killpoints, no matter how many times I explained it. I mean his painting was ok, sportsmanship was fine if you got him after nap time, but just couldn't fathom killpoints man.

Sucker is D-U-M-B dude.

TheLionReturns
18-08-2008, 11:02
I think that whilst it would be wrong to say that GW hobbyists are all highly intelligent, it is a rather cerebral hobby. As has been pointed out it promotes creativity in a variety of forms, but also requires logical thinking, problem solving, a good memory and maths skills. I feel that as a teenager it was an important part of my intellectual development, and if I had kids I would certainly encourage their interest in it. I also think it attracts those who have the patience to stick with something and master it, or at least those who lack this patience drift out of the hobby pretty quickly.

Duke Georgal
18-08-2008, 11:39
Pretty much all nerds can be described as intelligent, whether they are gamers or not.

I don't see many dafts playing games of any sort.

prince_dios
18-08-2008, 17:33
It's definitely not a hobby that attracts the bottom of the barrel - people who live only in the present moment, the illiterate, and the uncreative.

Slaaneshi Slave
18-08-2008, 17:57
It's definitely not a hobby that attracts the bottom of the barrel - people who live only in the present moment, the illiterate, and the uncreative.

I've met plenty of those playing 40k. Most of them playing Space Marines or Iron Warriors.

Daemonslave
18-08-2008, 18:11
U IZ SO RITE LOLZ. ALL US 4TK-ERZ PWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALBERT INE-STINE MUST HAVE PLAYD 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eyebrows:

heretics bane
18-08-2008, 18:44
I have met plenty of people who arent very bright at all and still play the hobby and then ive met incredible intelligent people playing the hobbie.

Basicly it isnt as linear as the stereostyping maes it out to be.

prince_dios
19-08-2008, 02:03
I've met plenty of those playing 40k. Most of them playing Necrons or Iron Warriors.

Touche. PS: Fixed your post.

RossS
19-08-2008, 05:21
U IZ SO RITE LOLZ. ALL US 4TK-ERZ PWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALBERT INE-STINE MUST HAVE PLAYD 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eyebrows:

Genius!

I must respectifully disagree with the poster's sentiments. While the hobby includes many a "creative" or "clever" person. It's ranks also include a good number of socially-inept, snot-nosed and otherwise obnoxious individuals. Is that scraggly-bearded 30 year old - you know, the one who yells "Waaagh" at high decibal when his animosity rolls are favorable - really more "clever" than a football fan who happens to enjoy his televised bloodsport with a tasty brew? I think not.

zedeyejoe
19-08-2008, 08:33
I went to school with some very bright people (one got the highest recorded mark in A level maths that year). However of them only about half were rounded individuals with good people skills as well.

You also don't need to be 'brainy' to have success in life. One of my friends only managed to get O levels but went on to work in the city of London on 350K a year (back when that was a very nice wage thank you). He made it through being a nice guy to be with and working hard.

Of course in the military, wargaming is used as a training tool.

Crazy Harborc
20-08-2008, 01:44
The hobby of wargaming is a great hobby. If you and your opponent(s) want to have house rules, ignore rules or whatever......you can.

If you plan to play a large (or small) number of your wargames in a GW store and or at "offical events" using GW's "official rules".....THEN you should use those rules as written. Unless the players and or "officials running the event" agree otherwise.

IMHO....wargaming is what you and your opponents make it. It's a hobby NOT a job. We spend money to be able to play the games, use the minies and the rules that we own after we pay for them.;)

- Human
20-08-2008, 04:16
I wouldn't say wargamers are smarter on average than non-wargamers, but I agree to the extent that the hobby is a decent way to spend brainpower. Like others have mentioned, it's a creative, artistic outlet that also allows you to work your brain with a bit of problem solving (tactics).

rich1231
20-08-2008, 07:56
All hobbies that border on obsession are popular with males. Go to any wargames show and its evident to see that many people don't have social skills whatsoever.
I don't think you can make any claim to gamers being more intelligent than non gamers. Its all about balance, if all you do and think about is a single hobby or activity then you are in trouble.

Slaaneshi Slave
20-08-2008, 08:35
Touche. PS: Fixed your post.

You think Space Marines don't attract the bottom of the barrel? :p

Sure, plenty of other people play Space Marines, but from my observations, most mouth breathers are Marine players too.


Of course in the military, wargaming is used as a training tool.

Military Wargaming is absolutely nothing like 40k.

LuciusAR
20-08-2008, 11:49
I don’t think its accurate to say all GW gamers are highly intelligent I’d honestly say it attracts slightly more intelligent gamers than some other hobbies, however but the reverse is also true, which does tend to balance things out. GW due to its ‘niche’ status attracts far more than its fair share of gamers who to be lack any real personal skills, have poor hygiene and quite often are just plain thick. The association with the leather trench coat brigade hasn’t really helped either. Go into a GW beginner’s day and have a look at some of the kids. Sure many are intelligent and looking for something a bit challenging, but just as many won’t even be able to hold down a job at McDonalds. Maybe because of its generally accepting nature of a GW store it becomes a safe haven for those who cant fit in anywhere else.

The application of Intelligence can be found in almost any pastime. I notice, quite predictably, that many here have stated that GW games or more cerebral than sports. Not true. Sports require a great deal of tactical thinking and the ability to improvise and react. Once you appreciate it you realise that the average game or football is actually just as cerebral, if not more so, than a game of 40K. It’s just a matter of whichever floats your boat.

Quetzl
20-08-2008, 17:28
Intelligence is a remote thing really, I mean if you play GW's games all the time then you're gonna be remotely intelligent about it - no matter your background.

I would agree however, that the hobby lure bright eyed people to it. People who see the world differently and have a lot of imagination, this makes them able to soak up new things and take in more information I suppose. I mean there's not many gamers who are stuck in 3rd edition Warhammer because they don't understand or get the new rules :/

I'd say the stupidity comes when people want things mindlessly or pesume that things are always gonna go there way. Par example, wild rumours or nuts power lists that are always gonna win cause the stats say they are. I think this single mindedness and the arrogance comes with it and makes the hobbyist stupid and more importantly cold. But ya'know these people might have medical degrees or high paying jobs. So anyway what's my point? Well I think the game attracts people who want to do something different/socialise/have a good game but I think the Hobbyists true colours change how Intelligent they're gonna be about the Hobby and how they play it. Naturally competitive people most likely want to go for the uber lists or the killer combo's, whereas more relaxed observant people are quite happy to probably sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

In terms of re-manipulating fluff. I'd say it's to everyone's taste! If you want to say your Space Marines are actually Cyborgs from Mars then why not? It doesn't change anything it's just an ideal that leaves GW fluff behind. I've been listening to Podhammer a lot recently and Jeff Carroll's talking about making an Empire army based on the Persians from 300? So where the hell does that fit in the Warhammer universe? But at the same time, if you want your Marines to depict the Emperors finest or your Empire to hail Sigmar then that's just as cool.

This turned into a rant sorry :(

Fire Harte
21-08-2008, 23:56
Well guys and thanks for commenting!

I actually disagree with my opening post now. I feel like a massive fool for putting it up.

I guess I have to agree with what most of you say, I asked for your opinion and I got it. Yeah agreed, there are clever people at my GW, but today after coming back after a 2 and a half week absence, I encountered a kid my age who was really, really, really thick. He had no sense of anything BUT 40k (I have thought he might be autistic, but dismissed it when he mentioned he was 'perfectly normal'). I played a game against this guy and he really did irritate me, with his excuses and all that. Then I remembered a few regulars I usually encounter, who are not 'the brightest spark'. I'm not saying I am perfect, I lost 30 and a camera (Curses!) recently, but I do tend to talk to the other gamers and hobbyists who are on my level.

After reading your comments (Especially dameonslave's), I had quite a laugh. So thanks again!

Fire Harte