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Mozzamanx
18-08-2008, 16:53
Ello chaps,

according to the 3.5 Chaos codex, the Eldar empire collapsed around the year 30,000, which created the Eye of Terror and marked the start of the Great Crusade.

The Eye is held in check by the Cadian Pylons, which are of Necron design. All good so far.

The Necrons disappeared like 65,000,000 years ago, and have only awakened in very recent times. All making sense.


How in the hell did the Pylons get there? There was no Eye of Terror when they were awake, and they reappeared about 10,000 years after it, which means that Cadia will have been crawling with Guardsmen, making a building site impossible.

Could they see the future, or is this just a case of 'C'tan did it!'?

Lord Inquisitor
18-08-2008, 17:03
How do you know the pylons are of Necron design?

Mozzamanx
18-08-2008, 17:07
I'm sure I read it somewhere... The Old One's greatest asset was the warp, so they tried to seal it off with their Pylons. It might have been the Necron codex, not sure.

heretics bane
18-08-2008, 17:07
There stated to be made by the necrons because they tried to stick the exact same pylons on medusa V

Lord Damocles
18-08-2008, 17:11
Assuming that the Pylons are of Necron origin (which seems a fairly safe bet), there are a number of alternatives:

-The Pylons were built to seal a warp breach during the War in Heaven. The birth of Slaanesh tore open the sealed breach, thus resulting in the Pylons being in place to stop the rift expanding further.

-The Necrons built the Pylons sometime after the birth of Slaanesh (we know that they've been active long before first recorded contact).

-The location of the Pylons is a lucky coincidence.

-The Pylons were built in/around the ancient Eldar empire in order to limit the use of psychic powers and/or formation of warp rifts in the area.

-The Pylons are actually a copy of Necron technology built by the Eldar/other random race who had predicted the formation of the Eye of Terror.

-The Pylons are part of the C'tan's great warding, designed to separate the Wrap from the material universe for ever. Other Pylons are out there, but are as yet undiscovered.


Other less likely explanations:

-The Necrons traveled through time to place the Pylons

-Chaos did it.

Lord Inquisitor
18-08-2008, 17:17
Or that the Pylons were of Necron design for other anti-Warp purposes and were moved by some other agency to contain the Eye.

Yayale
18-08-2008, 17:18
dunno reli i havn't read the articles saying that the necrons made things to contain the eye of terror, or that the eldar created it lol.

It will be a case of fluff being written by different people so just take it with a pinch of salt or just presume the ctan instructor a governor to make them.

Simon Sez
18-08-2008, 17:19
I give you the following points:

The Eldar were one of the races that battled the Necrons in the War of Heaven

The Eldar Empire lasted a very long time.

The Eye of Terror is centred in the Eldars homeworlds, now the Crone Worlds.

The Eldar are a highly psychic race.

Necron Pylons dampen the connection to the Warp.

Pylons, if memory serves, are nigh indestructable.

It is my hypothesis therefore that the Pylons were mounted as a weapon against the Eldar by the Necrons, surrounding their most concentrated area for most effect. The Necrons retreated into hibernation, the Eldar survive the Enslaver plague (Maybe the pylons helped there?) and go on to thrive, fall into decadence and have their homeworlds destroyed by the fall, creating the Eye of Terror which is held in check by the long standing pylons.

Yayale
18-08-2008, 17:20
oh great I start writing a reply then go for t half way through and by the time I post people come up with far better answers and I look like a noob lol

de Selby
18-08-2008, 17:25
Are pylons mobile? The necrons could have built them for an earlier conflict and then some other interested party carried them off to deal with the whole eye of terror situation. Or they could have been programmed with limited intelligence to spontaneously gather around warp rifts, like a galactic warp-immune system.

edit: multiple ninja attack! twice as many replies as when I started answering; aren't ninjas supposed to be less effective when there's more of them?!

Lord Damocles
18-08-2008, 17:33
Are pylons mobile? The necrons could have built them for an earlier conflict and then some other interested party carried them off to deal with the whole eye of terror situation. Or they could have been programmed with limited intelligence to spontaneously gather around warp rifts, like a galactic warp-immune system.

That is soooo cool!

For all we know, the Pylons could in fact be able to phase out and reappear elsewhere, but due to the Eye not sealing, they're trapped in possition on Cadia.

Entire Null Planets being moved around by the Necrons in Phase Space to seal rifts is cool as well...:angel:

The_Warsmith
18-08-2008, 17:38
i like that idea, sounds like something the necrons would do, phase out-able buildings :p

StarshipBOb
18-08-2008, 17:43
As I see it, either the Necrons moved in the pylons sometime after the Fall of the Eldar and before the Cadian immigration or the pylons where there and inactive before the Eldar even settled that area of space. While the previous insinuates that the Necrons where active far more earlier than believed, the latter means that there could be innumerable planets with hidden Pylons. The thought of having one of these just mysteriously pop up in Mars would be interesting to say the least.

Rabid Bunny 666
18-08-2008, 17:55
I always thought the Pylons were built during the War in Heaven to limit the Eldar's abilities, seeing as the region where the Eye of Terror is now used to be the centre of their civilisation, it seems reasonable to assume they tried to hem the Eldar in.

Could have also worked when Slaanesh was born, hemming in the Eye of Terror, making sure it consumed all the Eldar worlds and nothing else.

Does the last point seem reasonable?

chaos0xomega
18-08-2008, 18:01
I would like to make it clear, that the Pylons we speak of in this instance, are NOT the same as the Pylons that we can field in Apoc games. These Pylons are far larger and fulfill a different purpose.

Brother Siccarius
18-08-2008, 18:34
The necron pylons on Cadia calm the warp in the immediate area, which inadvertently creates a path through the Eye of Terror. It's original purpose probably had something to do with preventing Eldar and other creations of the Old ones from creating a churning warp storm on their heads, which could have bad consequences in the physical world. Alternatively they may have once dampened psychic powers in the area, however, several of them have been destroyed, so they array of pylons probably isn't as powerful as it used to be.

x-esiv-4c
18-08-2008, 18:37
Sounds to me like a way in for the Jokero...

sydbridges
18-08-2008, 18:45
The necron pylons on Cadia calm the warp in the immediate area, which inadvertently creates a path through the Eye of Terror. It's original purpose probably had something to do with preventing Eldar and other creations of the Old ones from creating a churning warp storm on their heads, which could have bad consequences in the physical world. Alternatively they may have once dampened psychic powers in the area, however, several of them have been destroyed, so they array of pylons probably isn't as powerful as it used to be.

I've been thinking it might be an unfinished Necron project.

Perhaps the original idea was to build Pylons on as many planets in the area of the now-Crone Worlds in an attempt to screw the Eldar or Old Ones. If you could put enough of them in an area to dampen the Warp, perhaps the Eldar/Old Ones would be able to use the Webway system by causing the gates to be unable to connect with the Warp, trapping the Eldar/Old Ones out of the Webway and forcing them to footslog it, where the Necrons superior speed in non-Warp travel would allow them to outmaneuver the Eldar or Old Ones (or both).

In that case, the project could have been left unfinished for any number of reasons: The Eldar or Old Ones worked out what was going on and started making concentrated attacks on Necrons who were attempting to build Pylons, the Enslaver plague may have caused the Necrons to retreat before it was finished, Necrons started running low on resources for it, the C'tan chompfest could have disrupted the construction, etc...

Lord Inquisitor
18-08-2008, 18:58
Maybe there's a hidden Necron tomb world deep within Cadia? Hence the concentration of pylons?

heretics bane
18-08-2008, 19:18
I think the IG would have found out by now.But it could also be hidden right under there nose's..

kammek
18-08-2008, 19:35
Or when the eye of terror breach into the universe the plants with the pylons were protected from the warp energy, and rode the "wave" of the warp to where they now rest. But since then the pylons have begun to crack and break down from time, allowing chaos to expand once more.

Idaan
18-08-2008, 19:51
I'm thinking the opposite way.
Wasn't the current Segmentum Obscurus the base of the Necron power during War in Heaven? I seem to recall reading something like that, at least in the MvS's timeline. It would then make sense that they started the Great Work from their own territory.
It isn't said anywhere that the current Eye of Terror was where the Eldar race originated. There is however plenty of evidence to the opposite:
-the Eldar themselves don't know the name or location of their original homeworld (the one with three moons). That could mean that they survived an exodus early in their history.
-Old Ones came back to Eldar homeworld, rounded the fledgeling Eldar up and sent them to war, before even they could construct their own spacecraft. And with Old Ones absent and Eldar princes Eldanesh and Ulthanash dead, how could they come back on their own?
-the Enslaver plague struck accordingly hard to the concentration of psykers. It is therefore logical that the homeworld of the Eldar where every single living being was psychic was all but destroyed. It is possible that the Eldar survived only on worlds other than their own, with smaller population and less psykers. And what world could be less populated than a world formerly on a frontline, deep into Necron territory, scoured of all beings, especially psychic ones?
-we know that the Eldar were dominated by half-sapient Mon-Keigh (the original race), which were only cleansed by Elronhir. It had to be early in their history, when they weren't far from their homeworlds. Yet the Shrine of Elronhir location on the Eldar map is far from EoT, in different Segmentum.

Thus, the location of Necron Pylons is purely coincidental, and wasn't aimed at the Eldar in the first place. The Pylons could have been unnoticed by Eldar: there is no sign of Eldar activity on Cadia itself.

All that is only IMHO obviously and based on deduction.

DapperAnarchist
18-08-2008, 20:06
"The only thing that is indisputable is that today the area of the galaxy once home to the ancient Eldar worlds is instead dominated by the Eye Of Terror" pg 62 of the Codex Imperialis, 2nd Ed.

I'd say that the Pylons aren't just on Cadia, but spread all across the galaxy, the remainder of the Great Project of the Necrons. Its only on Cadia that they're noticed.

And basically, there are lots of really good reasons for not thinking its a plothole - in fact, the Cadian Pylons are one of the examples of "The C'Tan did it" adding something to the universe, not taking it away, as prior to this, AFAIK, there wasn't much explanation for why there was a stable path out through Cadia, and it was just left up to "well, there is, so there".

Cheesolith
18-08-2008, 20:08
There are 2 types of pylons. 1 is a big turret in apoc games. The other is, according to the old descriptions, a huge(5km tall or something) black rectangle with no markings whatsoever. They remain dark even during day, as if all light that falls on them is absorbed or re-directed. Unlike the smaller obelisks, they are completlyindestructible, hovering somewhere between the materium, the warp where they cause immense holes and phasespace. In an old WD they were weren't realy structures but large voids, as in, large blocks of non-existance and anything touching them just bounced back as if touching a realy heavy solid object. They have the same effect in the warp and (presubably) the webway but because the delicate fabric those are made of a large area surrounding it gets unraveled as well. This was one of the WD's directly following the necron release and is most likely no longer canon. They can get "lost" if they are buried or go missing in space and the wound in the warp can heal arround them when they aren't in a Null Grid. The Great Plan involves setting up those things all over the galaxy and make a large enough hole in the warp to cause the entire thing to desintegrate.

Mullitron
18-08-2008, 20:10
Well i assume they built them in between the time of going into stasis and the creation of the eye of the storm (or just after). The necrons have been secretly active since there stasis the c'tan may of been resting but doesnt mean that there entirely dormant for example the one that currently resides on mars has created a large following with the machine cult but still hasnt 'risen' as such. The human race has been 'grown' for example to be the c'tans future crop. Remember that the necrons active at the moment are only supposed to be a small part of the necron force most are in slumber.

Finnith
18-08-2008, 20:12
I do like the phasing out pylon theory. The necrons realise what is happening with the birth of slannesh and try to plug the hole so to speak with a bunch of pylons. They dont want more warp/real space overlap so a quick fix was attempted by dumping thousands (just read it in the Eisenhorn book) of pylons onto a world to stem the tide. Kinda like trying to fix a dam with duck tape. If you use enough of it its bound to work, probably.

Then go back to sleep and hope that theres still a galaxy left when they wake up.

Lots more technical stuff in the Eisenhorn books.

Im sure i also remember reading stuff about the pylons being spread all over the galaxy in an attempt to cut off the warp and real space. If they did build enough of these then chances are some would end up fencing in the eye. Acting as a natural wall stopping it from spreading even further.

Xisor
18-08-2008, 21:15
Cadia might be an artefact world to the Eldar Empire, a museum, almost. When the Eldar won after the Enslavers, they set about the Galaxy doing their business, removing most of the 'safe' Necron technology (i.e. not disturbing tombworlds, but otherwise being actively destructive). They might've preserved Cadia just by chance.

Harking onto an earlier idea there. The Pylons might not be mobile, but Cadia probably is (if you are so concerned and willing to shift it)...

chaos0xomega
18-08-2008, 22:21
One thing I never understood about the cadian gate. Why bother fighting for it, when you could bypass it? I understand it's supposedly the "only stable passage into the heart of the Eye," but why would that be an issue (to the chaos marines/traitor legions)? I mean, actually look at a map of the EoT, there are planets in the Eye of Terror, amongst them Medrengard, the Iron Warriors home planet. If the Iron Warriors(and indeed other CSM legions) are capable of travelling through the Eye of Terror and controlling planets within it, then why would they need something like the Cadian Gate? Obviously, the EoT poses little to no threat to them, judging by this, so why not make a dash straight out of the Eye instead of trying to take the Cadian Gate? Especially considering that Abaddon had the blessings of all 4 of the (greater) Chaos Gods, who would presumably have the capability to protect the Chaos ships from any percieved danger they may be in...

Also, why not just travel through the warp normally? Come out in the Terra system? Or if you insist on a warp storm, the Storm of the Emperors Wrath or the Maelstorm? Not only that... but are you telling me that if the traitor legions want to attack any Imperial planet, they first have to breach Cadia? That doesn't really seem to sit right with me, considering that the Chaos Legions were at least in part present on Armageddon, along with numerous other worlds throughout the galaxy. Unless not all the traitor legions are in the Eye of Terror, which would seemingly be contrary to the fluff.

Malevon
18-08-2008, 23:58
I don't think it's necessary to say that Pylons or Cadia are mobile; it's more likely that they were built to contain the Eldar's psychic activity. Also, with all the power possessed by the C'Tan, the ability to see into the future doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility. No more so than Cadia being a mobile Necron artifact, anyway.

Nazguire
19-08-2008, 03:15
One thing I never understood about the cadian gate. Why bother fighting for it, when you could bypass it? I understand it's supposedly the "only stable passage into the heart of the Eye," but why would that be an issue (to the chaos marines/traitor legions)? I mean, actually look at a map of the EoT, there are planets in the Eye of Terror, amongst them Medrengard, the Iron Warriors home planet. If the Iron Warriors(and indeed other CSM legions) are capable of travelling through the Eye of Terror and controlling planets within it, then why would they need something like the Cadian Gate? Obviously, the EoT poses little to no threat to them, judging by this, so why not make a dash straight out of the Eye instead of trying to take the Cadian Gate? Especially considering that Abaddon had the blessings of all 4 of the (greater) Chaos Gods, who would presumably have the capability to protect the Chaos ships from any percieved danger they may be in...

Also, why not just travel through the warp normally? Come out in the Terra system? Or if you insist on a warp storm, the Storm of the Emperors Wrath or the Maelstorm? Not only that... but are you telling me that if the traitor legions want to attack any Imperial planet, they first have to breach Cadia? That doesn't really seem to sit right with me, considering that the Chaos Legions were at least in part present on Armageddon, along with numerous other worlds throughout the galaxy. Unless not all the traitor legions are in the Eye of Terror, which would seemingly be contrary to the fluff.

Thought it was the only stable route both into and OUT of the Eye which is what the main purpose is. While they are capable of slipping out every now and then and avoiding detection, large armadas of Chaos Marine forces are not able to.

A lot of the Traitor Legions managed to flee in part to the Maelstrom too, which is far calmer then the Eye of Terror.

chaos0xomega
19-08-2008, 04:33
I thought it was the traitor chapters (I.E. post heresy renegades) that used the Maelstorm, and the Legions that used the Eye.

Meh, I'm writing it off as a(nother) plothole. If small groups can "slip" through, then why not find another staging ground, and have a steady trickle of traitor forces "slip through" and assemble elsewhere, rather than just butting heads at cadia. It hasn't worked the 1s times before after all, why try the same failed strategy a 13th time?

Nazguire
19-08-2008, 04:49
I thought it was the traitor chapters (I.E. post heresy renegades) that used the Maelstorm, and the Legions that used the Eye.

Meh, I'm writing it off as a(nother) plothole. If small groups can "slip" through, then why not find another staging ground, and have a steady trickle of traitor forces "slip through" and assemble elsewhere, rather than just butting heads at cadia. It hasn't worked the 1s times before after all, why try the same failed strategy a 13th time?


A large force of Word Bearers are in the Maelstrom, and that's just one example. Kor Phaeron fled to the Maelstrom after the Battle of Calth.

Also, leaving a fortress world with millions of troops behind your invading army isn't that good an idea.

Idaan
19-08-2008, 10:34
"The only thing that is indisputable is that today the area of the galaxy once home to the ancient Eldar worlds is instead dominated by the Eye Of Terror" pg 62 of the Codex Imperialis, 2nd Ed.Yes, this and lots of other quotes say precisely that, that the Croneworlds were once home to the Eldar. But it doesn't say that one of them was where they originated, and the fact that the Eldar themselves don't know its location or name points to me that it wasn't in the current EoT area.
Compare: where I live now is my home, but I didn't have to be born there or even live there during my childhood.
Or (in a hypothetic 43rd millenium): The only thing that is undisputable is that today the area of galaxy once home to the ancient human worlds of Ultramar dominion is instead ravaged by Orks of Octarius and Tyranids of Hivefleets Kraken and Behemoth. Yes, this area of galaxy was home to the humans, and that's where Ultramar was located, but it isn't where all humans come from.

Iracundus
19-08-2008, 10:46
So much distorted and misremembered information in this thread... To set the record straight:

First off, the pylons themselves:



The Pylon was vast: half a kilometre high and a quarter square. The upper facing of the smooth black stone was machined with delicate craft to form holes and other round-edged orifices no bigger than a man's head. It was through these slim, two hundred and fifty metre tubes that the machine moaned and howled.

And the tubes weren't straight. They wove through the pylon like worm tunnels. Tech-magi had tried running tiny servitor probes through them to map their loops, but generally the probes didn't come back.

...Five thousand, eight hundred and ten known pylons dotted the surface of Cadia, not counting the two thousand others that remain as partial ruins or buried relics.

No two are identical in design. Each one rises to a precise half kilometre height and is sunk a quarter kilometre into the ground. They predate mankind's arrival in this system, and their manner of manufacture is unknown. They are totally inert, by any auspex measure known to our race...

p. 5, Eye of Terror Codex



The pylons, which had until now been utterly inert, began resonating with an almost imperceptible vibration...Microscopic stress fractures were developing along the previously impenetrable surfaces of the pylons and all were resonating at an amplitude similar to that produced by a Gellar Field, the invisible energy field that shields a starship travelling through the Warp. The pylons appeared to be fighting to hold back the power of warp storm Baphomael, but were, slowly but surely, destroying themselves in the process.

p. 11, Eye of Terror Codex

The Necrons are responsible for the pylons on Cadia and on other worlds:



Since that time, increased Necron activity in the sector has prevented any Imperial forces from capitalising upon these victories, and remote orbital pict-captures have even revealed several structures almost identical to the Cadian Pylons sprouting across the landscapes of these four sentinel worlds.

Death by a Thousand Cuts, Eye of Terror Campaign result WD article, Aus WD 287, p. 98

On Medusa V, the Necrons also attempted to raise pylons to shield the world against an advancing warp storm, thus showing the pylons are the result of Necron efforts. An insufficient number of pylons were completed and so the warp storm ultimately scoured the world.

It is known from the Necron Codex that the "Great Work" they are attempting is to create a section of the galaxy warded off from the warp. On p. 64 of the Necron Codex among the scattered manuscripts, in the background there is a letter describing how one human found a system where the warp was incredibly calm. On the surface of one of the planets he found "great astrological engines" and "twisted geometries". Given that the previous quotes have shown the Necron pylons to ward against the warp, it is highly probable they are part of the Great Work, or rather the plan for the Great Work really consists of a huge network of such pylons and monolithic structures that ultimately shield a large section of the galaxy from the warp permanently.

Lord Malorne
19-08-2008, 11:00
Weren't the pylons made as part of the Necrons 'grand plan' to destroy/seal off chaos/enslavers/warpspace and that is why they are there?

I'm sure thats what I read in regards to pylons being a part of the 'grand plan' then something (I think the deceivers eat your buddy drive) reduced there power and there was less to 'eat'.

Note: this is all off the top of my head.

EDIT: Iracundus summed up my thoughts better than I ever could.

Mercer
19-08-2008, 12:25
I think, as others have said, the pylons were built around the Eldar home worlds, to dampen any warp connections.

The enslaver plague then come on, and the necrons went into hibenation. The pylons were in the right place at the right time when the eye opened.

Though a big ass tomb under cadia would be interesting, but I think IG forces would have found it. Also putting pylons over a tomb is like waving "we're over here!" lol.

Mercer

aim
19-08-2008, 13:09
When I read stuff like this, it makes me chuckle to myself a little.

Can you imagine what a race as aincient as the old ones that evolved in a different, more friendly or lonely, galaxy would think if they stubled into the milky way?

They find.....

A giant warp space hole thats trying to bleed its way accross the galaxy and is only being held back by pylons that were coincidentally built for an entirely different reason.

A slowly awakening, aincient race that sold their souls to giant non-coporeal star eating beings wandering about the universe trying to kill everyone.... and who coincdentally stopped they warp from getting all over everything and presumably destroying the universe.

A slightly less aincient, dying race, that managed to tear open said warp space hole and let it leak into realspace and are running away wanting nothing to do with their mess.

An empire divided down the middle which worship either a dead psyker on life support or warp creatures and spend most of their time trying to kill everything, including the race trying to stop the warp from leaking all over everything.

.... That would be a case of 'wtf are you guys doing?' /insert lots of killing everything and trying to fixthe mess here.

TheBigBadWolf
19-08-2008, 14:20
IIRC an inquisiter found a way to copy the pylons and was going to place more around the eye, he theorised that it would close it for good, but was declared heretic and killed, so as some people say they could have been built from a copied design by the eldar to keep the eye in check

heretics bane
19-08-2008, 15:28
IIRC an inquisiter found a way to copy the pylons and was going to place more around the eye, he theorised that it would close it for good, but was declared heretic and killed, so as some people say they could have been built from a copied design by the eldar to keep the eye in check

Yes that was Quixnus(sp? dont have my eisenhorn copy with me) IIRC that tried to recreate the pylons but was stopped by eisenhorn.Didnt he also write the book on how to create deamon hosts.

As for the pylons i dont think the eldar would have had the time or resources to build them after there race was pretty much obliterated.

MrBigMr
19-08-2008, 18:47
What if the answer is as simple as the fact that the Necrons haven't turned a blind eye on the world, but merely manipulated everything from the shadows? People talk of the Necrons as they were one single entity. Yes, bulk of them have been in stasis, but surely some would have cracked the tomb lid a bit to look around. How else would they know that there's life in the galaxy? It's not like they set the alarm clock to 65 000 000 years and rested back.

So if they monitored the galaxy, having a major tear within the fabric of space the place the C'Tan don't like and which the last time foiled their plans, kicking some troops into gear and trying to stop this would have been an important event indeed. And the chaos of the Fall of Eldar and the rise of the IoM is a perfect opportunity to work as there's no central thingy monitoring things. Back during the Eldar empire, a planet being attacked or something mysterious happening, would be investigated and rise suspicion. But when it's all for themselves, no one is gonna care or even notice such things when the entire galaxy is in turmoil. Maybe that's why they've chosen to fully rise now, as there's no unified front against them.

Lord Damocles
19-08-2008, 18:55
Yes, bulk of them have been in stasis, but surely some would have cracked the tomb lid a bit to look around.
Well, we know that there were active Necrons on Medusa (near the Eye of Terror ;)) around 10,000 years ago (from 999.M41) (Index Astartes: Iron Hands), and we also know that there was some kind of large scale awakening in the Halo Stars 5000 years ago (Thorian Sourcebook).

Seems that the Necrons haven't been sleeping as peacefully as some would have us belive...

Gatsby
19-08-2008, 19:58
Quick clarification to many who have made reference to when the necrons lost/retreated at the end of the war. they never lost nor retreated after the war, they won, but after the c'tan looked around and saw that there wasn't enough left so decided to hibernate until there was more to consume.

MrBigMr
19-08-2008, 20:25
The version I've heard, the Old Ones were actually starting to win (Blackstone Fortresses, wraithguard, Orks, etc. starting to kick ass), but this also led into the Enslavers to break on through the other side (the Enslaver Plague) to kill pretty much anything with psychich activity and all the Warp energy spilling out made the world a bad place for the C'Tan and the Necrons.

But that's what I've heard/understood/put together.

Gatsby
19-08-2008, 20:37
The war did start to turn in favor of the old ones, but the deceiver managed to trick some of them and found breaks in their defenses leading to victory for the deceivers forces (the night bringer was pushed back as the deceiver led the old ones to attack him giving the deceiver the chance to strike at the old ones while they were focused on fighting the night bringer) and the destruction of the old ones, they didn't bother to kill off the eldar or orcs because they wanted them to grow larger like cattle.

heretics bane
19-08-2008, 21:39
In the fluff it states that -"The old ones through up new races to defend there dwindling holds before finaly falling" or something along those lines showed that they did start to get/did get their butts kicked, i think thats why they all died out?

DapperAnarchist
20-08-2008, 10:22
The "Necrons" can't have been winning, since there is no "Necron" army - there is the army of the Deciever, the Nightbringer, the Outsider, the Void Dragon, The Maker of Really Good Cocktails, etc etc... (that last one was eaten by one of the others. Only later did they miss his fantastic martinis). So it'd be a bit of both - Void Dragon and Deciever were doing well at the cost of the Nightbringer, Outsider was just sort of thrashing... Or whatever.

MrBigMr
20-08-2008, 11:58
Deceiver, Nightbringer, Outsider, Void-Dragon, The Maker of Really Good Cocktails, etc. All served by Necrons. And made in Taiwan.

During the Herese you had Chaos attacking the Imperium, not Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeentch, etc.

DapperAnarchist
20-08-2008, 19:25
During the Heresy the forces of Chaos were (mostly) united under Horus. This is stated - he was Warmaster of Chaos. During the War In Heaven, the C'Tan fought each other - this is also stated. They ate each other cos it tasted nice. So, one army, several armies.

Sekhmet
20-08-2008, 20:54
How about this slight change in perspective:

The Pylons were not placed there to contain the Eye. They were not moved into place. They were seeded throughout the galaxy roughly around the areas where the Old Ones frequented, one would assume that's the area the Eldar inherited. As the Eye formed, it continuously spread until it hit the Pylons. As in, if it weren't for the lucky placement of the Pylons, the Eye would have engulfed the galaxy.

Basically, the size of the Eye during it's formation was determined by the Pylons. The Pylon placement was NOT determined by the size of the Eye.

DapperAnarchist
20-08-2008, 23:47
ooh, nice thinking. I support that.

chaos0xomega
21-08-2008, 00:17
Nice idea Sekhmet, but it raises an important question: are there isolated planets within the Eye that are devoid of the predations of the warp due to the presence of pylons? If a large area of space pre-eye was seeded with these things, I find it hard to believe that only the cadian gate would exist.

Koryphaus
21-08-2008, 02:06
I would say it is perfectly plausible, as we know diddly-squat about inside the eye.

Remember also, the Eldar managed to retake approximately 20-25% of Eidolon in the EoT Campaign. The areas reclaimed are once more ruled by the laws of reality and sanity. If the Eldar can do it, so can the Necrons with their Pylons.

avatar of kaine
21-08-2008, 19:35
well back to what happened to the old ones i remember reading they fled the galxay but back to the pylons I say that they may be similar to the thing that protects the C'tan from the warp and candia is an inhert tomb world....

heretics bane
21-08-2008, 20:44
They where all killed or destroyed,well thats my take on it.

Faustburg
21-08-2008, 21:53
Yup, being the most powerful psykers around the Enslavers would have found them the tastiest of all :)

ashrumx
22-08-2008, 02:09
I believe the pylons to be part of the 'crons 'great plan'. Look at the inside back cover of the necron codex and look at the map of encounters. Imagine in your head the geometry is a pyramid shape ( cant see it as 2 demensional on map). When complete the 'great plan' is going to separate warp from real space within the perimeter and 'souls can not exist'.

Vaz84
22-08-2008, 04:53
If you break up the Eye of Terror into a Pizza. The Pylons block 1 of 12 slices at best. Hardly "containing the eye"

They also aint no bounty paper towel, as you can see the eye usually leaks along side of the pylons, not held back except for the localized area of the eye. Also the Pylons don't repel the eye, they calm it. It'd say they could be great chaos artifacts (go Tzeentch?) Or various other things.

IF there were more pylons, there would be more Cadian gates for chaos to enter the universe from. So the Necron theory is bunk to me.

Malevon
22-08-2008, 06:04
I don't think there's any debate as to whether or not they're Necron artifacts, simply how they came to be if the Necrons went to sleep prior to the Eye of Terror's existence, a question which many people have come up with reasonable answers to.

If they were, as suggested, designed simply to dampen Eldar use of psychic powers, then it would make sense that they don't contain the Eye of Terror perfectly, as they weren't designed to do so.