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Grunge
18-08-2008, 23:25
There was a time when lots of new players came up from everywhere! At those far forgotten times, we did mostly small point games and god they were fun (after years playing 2k!).

We had been playing with different armies and we found cool combos and stuff. Time went by and we still do lots of smaller games. Lists were tuned up, armies got bigger and still the ocasional 500 points game takes place in a random table corner.

So basicaly: I want to win every 500 point game from now on.

What list should i go for?


Bretonnian Lance of Doom? (aka 8 Knights of the Realm + BSB with Virtue of Duty)? Or Fanatic-spitting-goblin horde?

Throw here some of the lists that area hateful, unfair, broken AND unbeatable at 500 points!

gorenut
19-08-2008, 01:20
I think the armies that can amass more troops tend to do fairly decent. At 500 pts, I would recommend just using the Warbands rules. It definitely makes games more interesting because it offers you the ability to have variety since you don't need to meet the standard minimum unit requirements.

Makarion
19-08-2008, 01:58
I can see an all-ethereal list work quite well at 500 points. There's a good chance you'll face armies that cannot wound you other than by crumbling.

The other nasty alternative might be to try and overload on magic. At 500 points, people probably won't even have a caddy, so you'll face 2 DD (unless you run into dwarves). With 2 level 2 wizards plus a bound spell or two, perhaps something that generates a PD as well... I can see that do quite well. See if you can support it with missile units.

Kalec
19-08-2008, 03:49
An ethereal vamp with some wraiths, with minimal zombies for the core.

Good luck finding an opponent.

Stinkfoot
19-08-2008, 04:01
20 zombies cost as much as the much better 10 ghouls or skellies. If you don't have LotD, ghouls are probably the way to go. I don't think I'd make the vampire Etheral either, as it limits your hitting ability... How about Flying Horror, Avatar and Flayed Hauberk? That's probably tough enough to survive a 500 point army, and can crank out some pain.

Vampire
-Flying, Avatar, Flayed

2x10 ghouls

3 wraiths

I think most armies will have a very hard time dealing with that. Wraiths can easily deal with artillery lists. Wraith and vampire team will dominate in combat. Seems solid to me.

PeG
19-08-2008, 08:57
Several armies are rather strong at 500 points, One of them that I see in action rather often is WE. Hail of doom really hurts at this point level. Avoid Tomb kings, Ogres and some others.

ROCKY
19-08-2008, 10:38
An ethereal vamp with some wraiths, with minimal zombies for the core.

Good luck finding an opponent.

AHEM ^_^ Demon army. all demons attacks are magical thus hit itheral creatures. you would die pretty fast.

isidril93
19-08-2008, 11:02
swordmaster army. one unit that cannot almost not be defeated in cc. with nothing big to stand up to it and not a lot of shooting not much will be a match for it.

Mentat
19-08-2008, 11:16
a level 2 battle wizard, 2 units of 10 free company each, and a steam tank

ROCKY
19-08-2008, 12:53
swordmaster army. one unit that cannot almost not be defeated in cc. with nothing big to stand up to it and not a lot of shooting not much will be a match for it.

they arent a core unit are they? and btw whats their I?

the Khaki Campbell
19-08-2008, 13:03
Flyers. they zip around the flanks block marches. in small games there isn't reallyy anything that can deal with them, like lots of war machines, lots of skirmishers.
gyrocopters are expensive but steam gun is awsome. tzench? sorcerer on flyin disk or screamers flying over causing hits or ven a phyco vampire with fly, hatred g'weapon etc

Kamizanate
19-08-2008, 16:01
High Elves

Unit of spears/archers, and a Dragon Mage.

Whoops

random.brown
19-08-2008, 16:33
2 x Units of 10 Gobbo Spider Riders
1 Unit of Night Gobbos with Netters, 3 Fanatics, etc.

Oh yeah, need a leader in there, huh?
Drop a fanatic and get a Goblin Shaman, maybe?

Grunge
19-08-2008, 19:11
This is getting where I wanted it to go. Excuse the cheesy question, but that was only to start your engines.

The true meaning of this thread was to have a rather rational study on smaller point games. Trying to find unbalanced things is just that, studying.

So general opinion seems to go on the all Ethereal army. Others that do well at where I play are a Bretonnian guy who uses the lance with loads of static CR. That lance can break almost everything you can find at such low point games, and beeing ir pratically all he has, he manages to charge -> break/pursue -> manouver -> repeat. All that comes from a magic item combo used often at 2k but insanely better at 500!

ROCKY
19-08-2008, 19:40
hehehehe herald of slaanesh an the ether blade (always strikes first and no armor saves) assuming he can land all 4 hits and wound 4 times ^_^. but the good news is that the unit hes with will strike first as well (5 more daemons in the frontline and a champion is 11 WS5 S3 armor piercing attacks) while given its not alot of damage the sheer number of hits and wounds will cause alot of dice rolls and say u kill 4 only out of all those attacks thats that many less attacks on you ^^ not to mention demons wont run and that u can always flank ^_^.
my list has been working well

Herald of slaanesh with da ether blade
flamers
daemonnettes
small unit of letters

supermonkey101
25-08-2008, 07:19
never had a battle at this point cost but o well.

hereld of khorne with juggernaught-190pts- 3 ws7 s7 flaming attacks reroll to hit

and 2 ws5 s5 attacks

armour of a 0+
ward of a 5+
t4

5 furies=60

20 blood letters=240
with musisian

ROCKY
25-08-2008, 10:14
never had a battle at this point cost but o well.

hereld of khorne with juggernaught-190pts- 3 ws7 s7 flaming attacks reroll to hit

and 2 ws5 s5 attacks

armour of a 0+
ward of a 5+
t4

5 furies=60

20 blood letters=240
with musisian

Its nice but i think u need two core units (furies dont count), i would suggest that u drop furies and take letters in 2 units of 12 with a champ. but this list means u gotta get to close combat otherwise you will be shot to pieces.

Shamfrit
25-08-2008, 12:07
Chieftain, BSB, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour.
Warpstone Amulet.
103

---

22 Clanrats
Musician, Standard.
125

21 Clanrats
Musician, Standard.
120

20 Slaves
40

20 Slaves
40

5 Nightrunners.
35

5 Nightrunners.
35

(498)


---

Easy as pie :D

Waywatcher-
25-08-2008, 12:14
I play alot of 500point 40k necrons, and with my experince of tomb kings in 40k i say you need a balence of shooting and cc ability. Not a great insight, but thats all ive got.

Waywatcher

Braad
25-08-2008, 12:22
Just a little something... If this list is supposed to follow warband rules, there is a max of two characters, no lords, and the characters together should never exceed 150 points. So no lords on juggernaughts...
If normal rules are used, this doesn't apply. So... what's it gonna be?

I had a bit of luck with sheer numbers. An all night gobbo horde (no fanatics) and then swamp the enemy (bretonnia). Combined with cheap gobbo shamans, very nice!

Conotor
25-08-2008, 12:29
Night goblins. 60 points gets you static 4.

Grunge
25-08-2008, 18:35
Normal rules ;)

Deamons, Gobbos, Vampires and Skaven have been covered. How about other races?

Are TK simply unplayable at these points?

ROCKY
25-08-2008, 18:45
Chieftain, BSB, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour.
Warpstone Amulet.
103

---

22 Clanrats
Musician, Standard.
125

21 Clanrats
Musician, Standard.
120

20 Slaves
40

20 Slaves
40

5 Nightrunners.
35

5 Nightrunners.
35

(498)


---

Easy as pie :D

lol thats just nasty! wow your warband is the size of my army ahahaha

Nightsword
25-08-2008, 19:28
Tk aren't unplayable, they just require alot of skill to play with. I've played a couple of games at 500, with roughly a 50% of winning, mainly down to the screaming skull catapult, wiping out the opposing army with some well guessed shots. Considering the price of skellies though, and the fact you need two core units, they aren't exactly easy to win with, especially since you have to have a liche priest, which is a fifth of your army right there.

winkypinky
25-08-2008, 19:30
saurus scar-vet: Great weapon, light armour, shield, spawning of sotek and a pair of sneakers.

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

11 skinks: blowpibes

499

Gonna catch them all....
I for one wouldnt like playing against it.

ROCKY
25-08-2008, 21:23
saurus scar-vet: Great weapon, light armour, shield, spawning of sotek and a pair of sneakers.

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

10 skinks: blowpibes

11 skinks: blowpibes

499

Gonna catch them all....
I for one wouldnt like playing against it.

whats the range for blow darts?:confused:

Grunge
25-08-2008, 22:31
whats the range for blow darts?:confused:

12", I guess.

Wouldn't that be fairly easy to control? The opponent just has to rush into combat!

90 rats still sounds pretty awesome to me!

Dairym
25-08-2008, 22:43
All the same that's alot of shots. Maybe swap a couple of units for salamanders - many 500 point armies would prove highly flammable.

From personal experience, 2 wizards is quite nasty - which brings us back to goblins or skaven, although 2 skink shamans is also possible.

I've found wood elves suffer from lack of numbers at 500 - I'd probably go with something like 20 archers, 5 waywatchers, a great eagle and a noble.

Grunge
25-08-2008, 22:47
Wardancers look good at 500! Maybe spam them could work!

2 Skink Priests + all skinks might prove pleasent too!

winkypinky
25-08-2008, 23:37
Wouldn't that be fairly easy to control? The opponent just has to rush into combat!


And what would he "rush" into?

The skinks that are behind him, or the ones to the sides? Or the 1 skink unit he may have in LOS that will just flee?
*It dosnt sound like you have played against a lot of skink hordes. It is even more frustrating than chasing woodelves for 6 turns.

sir_valance
26-08-2008, 14:25
I like this topic since I'm quite keen on 500pts games...

But aren't you guys forgetting some restrictions concerning Border Patrols?

Max 1 Hero
Max 4 units

Minimum 1 unit with 10 Infantry

No single model more than 125 pts

Max 25 models per unit

Or am I totally amiss?

$

Trimmey
26-08-2008, 14:48
Border patrol rules are optional you can just use the ordinary army construction table for 500pt games. Although personally I prefer to use the warband rules as it makes for more balanced forces.

I have just started a tale of four gamers type thing at my club and we have started at 500pts. It is really fun and I have had lots of victories with my High Elves.

I take:

1xlevel 2 mage.

20x spearmen.

16xarchers.

RavenBloodwind
27-08-2008, 03:36
Two plain but workable (and highly annoying) WE builds. One asrai one forest spirits:

Asrai:
Noble on elf steed w/HoDA, Helm of hunt, light armor (using spare point)
2x 10 glade guard
1x 5 glade riders

Shed-load of shooting for 500pt game, maneuverable enough. No hard hitters but can shoot yours before they need one.

Forest Spirit:
Branchwraith w/cluster and annoyance
3x 9 dryads
great eagle

Eagle for march blocking to get you time to set up your combined charges.

ROCKY
27-08-2008, 09:56
Two plain but workable (and highly annoying) WE builds. One asrai one forest spirits:

Asrai:
Noble on elf steed w/HoDA, Helm of hunt, light armor (using spare point)
2x 10 glade guard
1x 5 glade riders

Shed-load of shooting for 500pt game, maneuverable enough. No hard hitters but can shoot yours before they need one.

Forest Spirit:
Branchwraith w/cluster and annoyance
3x 9 dryads
great eagle

Eagle for march blocking to get you time to set up your combined charges.

wow...why is everyone shooting in these small games lol.:eek:

supermonkey101
28-08-2008, 09:26
had a 500 point game with a friend with no rules and no pd /dd for the army and i came victorious with.

HOT.winged and mos

3 nurglings

3 flamers.

10 blood letters with banner.

kobo1d
28-08-2008, 09:38
had a 500 point game with a friend with no rules and no pd /dd for the army and i came victorious with.

HOT.winged and mos

3 nurglings

3 flamers.

10 blood letters with banner.

So only 1 core was allowed? I think the OP needs to decide what rules the lists can be made by.

Border Patrol, Warbands, or Standard?

ROCKY
28-08-2008, 10:35
So only 1 core was allowed? I think the OP needs to decide what rules the lists can be made by.

Border Patrol, Warbands, or Standard?

i think u need to have 2 core. and i think thats illigal u can have 1 special OR one rare. i would suggest that he takes:
HOT= power vortex
10x bloodletters
10x daemonnettes
3x flamers

supermonkey101
29-08-2008, 09:56
i am sorry if it wasnt clear but i meant we didnt have any unit restrictions like need 2+ core apart from the army had to be less than 500 pts.

i was trying to send my point across that this was much funner than having to keep with restrictions.

ROCKY
29-08-2008, 11:09
i am sorry if it wasnt clear but i meant we didnt have any unit restrictions like need 2+ core apart from the army had to be less than 500 pts.

i was trying to send my point across that this was much funner than having to keep with restrictions.

while restrictions do sometimes lessen the amount of innitial fun, it helps regulate, because some armies elite and rare units are VERY hard thus taking the fun out for other players (poor beastmen). plus you would have to think logically a guy running a small 500point force will mostly have BORDER PATROL troops not elite Jack Daniels men.:D

Lorcryst
30-08-2008, 14:47
Oooooh, nice idea !

Since making 500 points lists using the standard Warhammer rules and restrictions is a silly hobby of mine (works better than counting sheep when I cannot find sleep), I'll post a few of my "little lists".

But first, a warning : my army lists tend to be more "fluffy" than "WAACish", I don't really know why, my brain is wired that way ...

For starters, here's a Dwarf list, the backstory being a Master Engineer field-testing a "new" (as in, less than 100 years old) cannon :


Dwarf Master Engineer with Brace of Pistols and Dwarf Handgun (90pts).
10 Dwarf Thunderers with Shields and Full Command (175pts).
10 Dwarf Quarrellers with Shields and Full Command (145pts).
Dwarf Cannon (90pts).


Quite compact, but with a lot of shooting, and since Dwarf missile troops come with T4, light armour and a hand weapon, adding the shield gives them a rather solid 4+ save in close combat, so they should be able to stand their ground in melee too.
The Cannon will be very reliable with a Master Engineer deployed with it, and quite hard to shift with the Entrenchment special rule to boot.


And then, because Dwarfs need enemies to shoot at, here's a small group of Night Goblins going back to their caves with something huge in tow :


Night Goblin Big Boss with Light Armour, Shield, and Martog's Best Basha (49pts).
24 Night Goblins with Spears, Netters, Full Command and 1 Fanatic (176 pts).
22 Night Goblins with Shortbows and a Musician (70pts).
Giant (205pts).


This one relies hugely on the Giant, anything with Terror is quite brutal in 500 points games, but the unit of Speargobs can win fights with static CR and a bit of luck for the Big Boss attacks, and the bow-armed gobboes are there for the annoyance factor (and because I needed a second Core choice to make the list legal).
The Fanatic, well ... could be monstruously effective, or could run straigth back in your units ... worst case scenario : it develops a crush on the Giant, and destroys your heaviest hitter ...


I still have a lot of those small lists somewhere, I was thinking recently about Ogres at 500 points or a Wolf Riders thematic list (move 9 and lots of fast cav can be a pain on the small tables used at this level of points), but before I go digging through my boxes of archives, let me know if you want to see more of my small armies :p

Disciple of Caliban
30-08-2008, 17:54
Dragon mage will be essentially indestructable in 500pts, that should make for a brutally short game.

All fast cav is also lots of fun, since you can just avoid combat all day long, reduce 1 unit to below half strength and you'll win

Lorcryst
30-08-2008, 18:30
I'm not sure that a Dragon Mage will be indestructible at 500 pts ... Dwarfs can get Bolt Throwers at 45 points, with a 2 for 1 Special slot deal, and O&Gs have the same Bolt Throwers, with the same deal, but 10 points cheaper ...

Take my Dwarf list a couple of posts above, swap the Cannon for 2 Bolt Throwers, and you're looking at an awfull amount of shots at that Large Target ... or keep the Cannon, and remember that when a Master Engineer joins the crew and uses his Artillery Master special rule, a Dwarf Cannon does D6 wounds after the to-wound roll ...

All it takes is a good range guess, and a bit of luck, and *poof* goes the Dragon Mage ...

But I agree, a Large, flying, terror-causing monster with a mage sitting on it is a scary prospect, even more so with a very small amount of points to design a counter ...

ROCKY
30-08-2008, 20:58
[QUOTE=Lorcryst;2907646]Oooooh, nice idea !
[LIST]
Dwarf Master Engineer with Brace of Pistols and Dwarf Handgun (90pts).
10 Dwarf Thunderers with Shields and Full Command (175pts).
10 Dwarf Quarrellers with Shields and Full Command (145pts).
Dwarf Cannon (90pts).

LOL sarcasm aside thats a pretty nice list, i might tweak it a bit but it looks fun enough :skull:

Lorcryst
31-08-2008, 01:47
It's not an optimized list, just something that popped in my head a couple of nights ago, but I think that it could work ... probably not against some of the "harder" lists in this thread tough : the Skink Extravaganza, the Skaven Horde or a good Daemon list could easily break it ...

But as I wrote, I'm almost unable to make a WAAC list, that's quite frustrating sometimes, but I mainly play for fun :p

TheDarkDaff
31-08-2008, 06:15
Just to try with Druchii
Master, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Dark Steed

5 x Dark Riders Repeater Crossbows
5 x Dark Riders Repeater Crossbows

Hydra
Total 499

Ward.
31-08-2008, 08:52
It's not an optimized list, just something that popped in my head a couple of nights ago, but I think that it could work ... probably not against some of the "harder" lists in this thread tough : the Skink Extravaganza, the Skaven Horde or a good Daemon list could easily break it ...

But as I wrote, I'm almost unable to make a WAAC list, that's quite frustrating sometimes, but I mainly play for fun :p

I dunno that list seems pretty hard to me, maybe I'm missing something.

My two ideal lists, ESHIN
Assasain -warpstone thowingstars
25 clanrats - musc, standard - rattling gun
20 slaves
3 X 5 X night runners -throwing weapon

OR

Enginner
2 X clanrats, musc, stan 1 rattling gun.
2 X PWG
2 X night runners extra hand weapons.

Scythe
31-08-2008, 09:48
I am quite surprised noone mentioned the steam tank yet. If you desperately want to win and have people stop playing you, take one of those. It even gives you enough pts left to fill compulsory 1 general / 2 core....

Yes, I have seen a guy actually play this...


Just to try with Druchii
Master, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Dark Steed

5 x Dark Riders Repeater Crossbows
5 x Dark Riders Repeater Crossbows

Hydra
Total 499

Also encountered something like this. Quite nasty indeed.

ROCKY
31-08-2008, 11:27
I am quite surprised noone mentioned the steam tank yet. If you desperately want to win and have people stop playing you, take one of those. It even gives you enough pts left to fill compulsory 1 general / 2 core....

Yes, I have seen a guy actually play this...



Also encountered something like this. Quite nasty indeed.
I was about to say DAMN lol:p a war hydra in this little of a game is scary.... deffinately need a fire mage or herald of khorne O_O.

Lorcryst
31-08-2008, 12:58
I dunno that list seems pretty hard to me, maybe I'm missing something.


Well, my dwarf list is rather small (25 models including the cannon and crew), and there isn't a magical weapon in there ... an Etheral list (mentionned on page 2 ?) would be basically immune to the hails of shots of the Dwarfs :p



@Scythe : I think there was a mention of a Steam Tank on the first page, but without a detailled army list to go with it ...

vinny t
31-08-2008, 15:57
2 lists......

Daemons
Tzeentch Hearld with Master of Sorcery
Tzeentch Hearld
10 Horrors
10 Horrors

495pts
8 PD
6 DD

Empire
Wizard
10 Handgunners
10 Swordsmen
Steam Tank

492pts
3 PD
3 DD

Mmmmmmm, chedder!!!

Lorcryst
31-08-2008, 19:12
Mmmmmmm, chedder!!!

Indeed !

That's some potent cheese ... I can't choose the one that scares me the most :evilgrin:

Reepacheep
31-08-2008, 22:37
First post! Longtime Lurker.

I play a lot of 500 pt Border Patrol, and have a hard time losing with-

Engineer
Condenser, Blades, Pistol
Storm Daemon
105

24 Clan Rats
Standard, Musician
Ratling Gun
195

20 Slaves
40

8 Jezzails
160

Someone's always bringing a bunch of knights, and they're always getting torn up by the jezzails first turn. The two casts of warp lightning and the ratling gun pretty much clean up everything else.

Kerrahn
01-09-2008, 01:38
Daemons
Tzeentch Hearld with Master of Sorcery
Tzeentch Hearld
10 Horrors
10 Horrors

495pts
8 PD
6 DD


I had an idea like this, only with

Herald of Tzeentch (115) with 25pt gift (probably Master of Sorcery, Flames of Tzeentch if I want to use Lore of Tzeentch)
10 Horrors (120)
10 Horrors (120)
10 Horrors (120)

Only 7 PD Compared to your 8, but still good. More numbers too.

One list I used to play with old Hordes of Chaos was:

Exalted Champion with Sword of Might and maybe Enchanted Shield
Chariot
Chariot
15 or 20 Marauders with Full Command, Shields and Light Armour

The Exalted Champion was on 1 chariot.

The two chariots ended up hitting a unit of Tomb King skellies and killing all 15 in the unit in one turn (before crumble test) due to attacks and Impact Hits.

Grunge
01-09-2008, 23:11
2 lists......

Daemons
Tzeentch Hearld with Master of Sorcery
Tzeentch Hearld
10 Horrors
10 Horrors

495pts
8 PD
6 DD


Mmmmmmm, chedder!!!

GOD!

Haven't seen many Wood Elf lists. Nor Bretonnia or VC. But I'm mostrly curious about Wood Elves, any ideias?

WhiteKnight
02-09-2008, 00:40
Here's my typical high elf 500 point army

Mage: level 2, staff of sorcery (175)
Spearmen:20, full command (205)
Archers:10, light armor, musician (125)

Works well against small armies. I usually end up against vampires with their uber vampire so i have 3 dispel dice at +2. So i have a good chance of dispelling envocation and all of the other spells they fling out.

If we run by standard rules, this is 500pt.

Mage: level 1, staff of sorcery (140)
Spearmen: 15, full command (160)
Swordmasters: 10, full command, war banner(200)

Well, this list is just pain for other armies. They usually say, WTF and just launch spells and magic at my swordmasters. That's when i just rush with the spearmen on the side just a couple inches ahead.

Mage: level 1, staff of sorcery (140)
Archers:10 (110)
Swordmasters:12, full command, banner of arcane protection, amulet of light (250)

Once again, magic resistant and combat heavy. I can use magic, shoot arrows, and chop down units. It's a Triple Threat. Most armies focus in one aspect in 500pts so i take advantage of the 1 core choice and go balanced instead of focusing on 1 aspect.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
02-09-2008, 10:46
I think skaven are nasty at 500pts

Warlock engineer, full kit - pistol, 85
20clanrats+ ratling 160 pts
20 clanrats+ratling 160
25 slaves 50pts
25 slaves 50pts

Or even Gnoblars
Gnoblar Head honcho, shield, la 24pts
Gnoblar head honcho, bsb, warbanner 70pts

Core
25 manbites, full command 140
20 Gnoblar fighters 40
20 Gnoblar fighters 40
20 gnoblar fighters 40

Special
25 lucky gits, full command 140pts

Models: 112 could be much more if you want

mrspadge
02-09-2008, 14:48
well, here are my border patrols:


Bretonnians:

Paladin - 110pts
- Barded Mount
- Shield
- Lance
- gromril great helm

8 knights of the realm - 216pts
- full command

3 pegasus knights - 165pts



High Elves:

Mage - 115pts
- jewel of dusk

10 archers - 110pts

10 archers - 110pts

5 silver helms - 155pts
- full command
- shields