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Toyship
19-08-2008, 03:52
Vampire Lord 310
Helm of Commandment
Flayed Hauberk
Avatar of Death
Great Weapon

Wight King 100
Wight Blade
Shield
The Accursed Armor

Necromancer 105
The Book of Arkhan
Power Stone

20 Skeleton Warriors 180
Hand Weapons
Shield
Full Command

20 Skeleton Warriors 200
Spears
Shield
Full Command

Corpse Cart 100
Unholy Lodestone

20 Grave Guard 315
Banner of the Barrows
Wight Blade
Shield
Full Command

5 Black Knights 280
Barding
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armor
Shield
Lance
Full command

5 Black Knights 280
Barding
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armor
Shield
Lance
Full command

All together-1870

Lord with helm will boost the Wight King in the Grave Guard unit. The 2 skelly units will go on either side of the GG. Corpse cart and necromancer will sit behind eveyone casting some spells,and the Knights will be on the flanks to prevent attacks/attack flanks. I've never played Warhammer in my life, I've played 40k though, so this is new to me.

Basically its more of a fluff army, which I'm working on now. I most likely will never play a tourney with them, but you never know.

What do I need to add or subtract and then add for a full 2000 points?

Stinkfoot
19-08-2008, 04:07
If you're going to take this little magic you're better off leaving the necromancer at home, or at least confining him to the roll of scroll caddy (that's to take, give him two dispel scroll and hide him in a forest all game). Similarly, your corpse cart should have balefire instead of lodestone. I think the VCs work best with lots of magic, but that isn't everybody's style. If you do decide to go magic heavy, aim for at least 10 power dice and the ability to use at least half of them (ideally more) with a Lord of the Dead or Summon Ghouls caster.

Anyway, as to the rest of your list... You don't have enough troops considering your lack of magic. All of your skeleton units should be at least 25 and probably 30. The GG should be upped to 25. It probably wouldn't hurt to up the knights to 6 either if you still have points.

Toyship
19-08-2008, 13:52
Vampire Lord 310
Helm of Commandment
Flayed Hauberk
Avatar of Death
Great Weapon

Wight King 100
Wight Blade
Shield
The Accursed Armor

Necromancer 105
2 Dispel Scrolls

30 Skeleton Warriors 260
Hand Weapons
Shield
Full Command

30 Skeleton Warriors 315
Banner of the Endless Nightmare
Spears
Shield
Full Command

Corpse Cart 100
Balefire

25 Grave Guard 375
Banner of the Barrows
Wight Blade
Shield
Full Command

6 Black Knights 329
Standard of Hellish Vigor
Barding
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armor
Shield
Lance
Full command

6 Black Knights 304
Barding
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armor
Shield
Lance
Full command

Total-2458

Thats revised, Im unsure what to do with the last 42 points. I tried adding a couple of magic banners and stuff, and changed around some numbers, I also switched the Necromancer to the role of scroll caddy. Let me know what you think. Thanks for your time!

Frgt/10
19-08-2008, 14:01
take lord of the dead on the vamp. since you're running skellies it will help them stay topped up. also maybe make the wight king a bsb, but no magic banner so you can still take magic items

Spirit
19-08-2008, 14:05
Cant believe noone noticed this one before me!

You need 3 core in a 2k army, only skeletons, ghouls and zombies count as core for vampires, not corpse carts.

Gokamok
19-08-2008, 20:54
I'll be commenting on the first list posted, since it seemed you're looking to play 2000 points, not 2.5k.

First of all, if you're planning on being competitive, you'll need more casting dice. Magic IS the VC army's greatest strength, but if you want to play low on magic, feel free to disregard this:D

Both your Black Knights units cost 100 points less than you've calculated, so there's an extra 200 points available :)

If you're not going magic heavy, I think Unholy Lodestone is a waste. Either go with Balefire instead to give the opponent a harder time casting or skip the cart completely.

Skeletons should never be fielded with spears. Extra attacks with WS2 and S3 will not make up for the better armour save of HWS.

The HoC+T6 Wight King combo is always nice, but you are wasting a bit of the flexibility from HoC by more or less forcing yourself to use it on the WK's unit rather than giving WS7 where it's most needed.

Regarding Characters:

1) I think you should take 2 necromancers with 1 Dispel Scroll each. The main benefit of taking 2 is that you gain an extra dispel dice and also don't risk losing both of your scrolls to a lucky cannonball or a charge from flyers/fast cav. The extra casting dice could also prove useful once in a while.

2) Add Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte and a Staff of Sorcery to your Lord. This will allow you a decent chance to keep your skeletons alive, and will also give you an extra dispel dice and +1 to dispel.

3) Make the Wight King BSB. The 25 points are well spent to ensure your units crumble less, especially since you'll likely run a very tight battle line.

...and as for the units:

1) Add 15 skeletons with HWS and full command to a) make the army legal, and b) act as a bunker for the necromancers and general.

2) I would suggest putting magic standards on the 2 units of Black Knights. War Banner and Banner of the Dead Legion would seem like good choices.

3) Remove spears from the skeletons.

I think this adds up to 2000 points total, but haven't doublechecked it. You will end up with a somewhat decent 7 power dice, and a quite strong magic defense with 6 dispel dice, 2 scrolls, +1 to dispel and a Balefire cart, which should shut down most enemy casting andd give you a decent chance to keep your units alive with IoN.

Best of luck:)

Toyship
20-08-2008, 00:18
Vampire Lord 340
Helm of Commandment
The Flayed Hauberk
Staff of Sorcery
Hand Weapon
Lord of the Dead
Dark Acolyte

Wight King 125
BSB
Wight Blade
Shield
The Accursed Armor

Necromancer 80
Dispel Scroll
Necromancer 80
Dispel Scroll

20 Skeleton Warriors 180
Hand Weapon
Shield
Full Command

20 Skeleton Warriors 180
Hand Weapon
Shield
Full Command

15 Skeleton Warrirors 140
Hand Weapon
Shield
Full Command

Corpse Cart 100
Balefire

20 Grave Guard 315
Banner of the Barrows
Wight Blade
Shield
Full Command

5 Black Knights 205
Banner of the Dead Legion
Barding
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armor
Shield
Lance
Full command

5 Black Knights 205
Warbanner
Barding
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armor
Shield
Lance
Full command

Total: 1950
I took the above advice and added all the things you advised me to do. I have 50 points left over, should I add a magic lvl to my lord? or buy banners for my skellies? Or should I give the Necromancers some gear? I'm liking the look of this list, like you said, it will probably be a very tight battle line. That said, the "bunker unit, should I put the Lord and both necromancers in it behind the battle line? or should it go alongside my GG unit?

Stinkfoot
20-08-2008, 03:47
Bunkers usually tag along in the back, staying out of trouble. Ghouls make better bunkers than skellies though unless you have a ton of LotD casters (they're harder to shoot down due to the higher toughness).

Anyway, people keep on telling you to do this and that to make your lord a better caster. That's all well and good, but it would take a large stylistic change in your list to turn your vampire into a casting God. Unless you're willing to take a support vampire or turn your Lord into a dedicated caster you're not going to be a threat magically. As is, your Vampire is really expensive and not terribly good at anything. You should either turn him into a combat beast with maybe a magical ability or two, or turn him into an uber-caster with maybe a piece of magic armor. 50/50 does not work.

Also, the two-necromancer idea is frankly stupid. A character on foot can easily stay out of line of sight all game assuming there are any forests anywhere near you deployment zone, and one dispel dice is not worth 55 points.

Gokamok
20-08-2008, 12:40
@Toyship:
A solid choice for the last 50 points would be Master of the Black Arts for your Vampire Lord, which would upgrade your magic phase from "somewhat decent" to "quite strong".

However, as Stinkfoot is pointing out, it's hard to be sure if you want to go down a more magic heavy path. The original list you posted was very low on magic, and if you had a concept of playing VC with only little magic in mind, then you should probably go for a completely different approach.

You're stating that you've never played WHFB before, so I don't think you should spend all too much time refining your army list before you try playing with it. It is a lot easier figuring out which units are worth taking once you find out how they work for you rather than what has worked for people with many years of experience that might be thinking in a completely different way.

Toyship
20-08-2008, 23:51
Basically, I wanted to go with a list based on units of skeletons and Black Knights. I love the fluff for the Wight King, so I included him on that principle. The HoC and Acursed armor makes the Wight even more killy, and although I wanted a killy vampire to go along with him, the Helm can only be used when the Vamp is not in combat, so that is sort of my reasoning behind that whole thing. I gave him the 2+ armor so he would be able to survive if he ever got attacked.

Maybe I should kit out the Lord to be more killy and give the Helm to a Vamp hero? Is that possible?

THank you all for your words of wisdom, and thank you for taking your time to help a new player out!

Stinkfoot
21-08-2008, 02:10
Your suggestion with the Lord and new hero is very doable Toyship. I'd suggest dropping the corpse cart for the points, as everything else is either important or required for you army to be legal. I'd probably make the hero vamp a caster with Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte and the Helm. Give the Lord Lord of the Dead and Master of the Black Arts (and the +1 level with the profile option, if you have the points) and you'll actually have a decent magic phase, and still have plenty of points for a killy Lord (maybe dread knight, dread lance and the enchanted shield for combat kit).

Toyship
21-08-2008, 03:25
Thats basically what I was thinking, that way I could have a bit of each, without really sacrificing my earlier plans.