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TheWarSmith
20-08-2008, 03:08
Hidily ho.

I'm off to start a DE list, as they finally really appear to have been done very well.

I, like many others most likely, LOVE the new cold ones. I also liked the old ones too. I have a new box of both. I'm wondering how well a "CoK themed" list would work.

Maybe like a unit of 10 and 2 units of 5? Or 2 units of 10? Then 2-3 units of 5 dark riders, and 3 x 10 crossbowmen?

I'm trying to work on a theme, hopefully with a heavy focus on cold one knights.

Cyrush
20-08-2008, 03:47
As I see it, the theme can be played out in two ways:

1) An army consisting of Druchii nobility and their personal guard, similar to a normal balanced list but slightly more elite with a higher proportion of knights and maybe Black guard.

2) A beast themed army, with a Manticore, Dark riders, Cold ones, Hydras, heck, even a Dragon, very mobile and hitty.

Nicha11
20-08-2008, 06:47
Have dark Riders for core.

Take mostly masters and drealords on cold ones.

Take some chariots. Have a unit of shades.

And two big units of COK.

Theme could be noble hunting expedition (looking for slaves, monsters ect ect).

isidril93
20-08-2008, 12:30
malus darkblades retinue from the books.

other than that you can make a beastmaster list.

JamieBHook
20-08-2008, 14:14
As I see it there are 2 roster options built into the Army Book.
1. The Nobles leading an exploritory force into the nearby lands looking for materials and slaves.

2. The Cult of Khain built around the Khaine's Queen and the cultists in the book to form a highly elite army of murderers.

TheWarSmith
21-08-2008, 04:02
I don't really want a beastiary that much.

Here's what I'm thinking:

117 5 dark riders, xbows, musician
117 5 dark riders, xbows, musician
117 5 dark riders, xbows, musician
110 10 xbowmen, shields
110 10 xbowmen, shields


330 10 cold ones with full command and ring of hotek
330 10 cold ones with full command and 25 pt. magic item
100 cold one chariot
126 7 shades, great weapons

200 2 repeater bolt throwers

255 Dreadlord, cold one, armour of darkness, pendant of khaeleth, Crimson Death
135 Master, heavy armour, shield, cold one, hydra blade
150 Sorceress, dark magic, 2x dispell scroll,

That's a rough 2250 list(would be with some tweeking)

What do you think?

Nicha11
21-08-2008, 06:14
Looks Good!

Vasteye
21-08-2008, 10:51
As another theme suggestion, you could do the northern watch towers. I remember an old white dwarf where there were 2 dark elf variant lists, a city garrison (lots of infantry) ad a watch tower patrol force (riders and knights, for galloping from tower to tower warning people about incoming chaos.)

The list looks pretty solid, though the mobile theme (if indeed that was what you were going for) is kinda spoiled by the xbow men and bolt throwers. You already have missile fire from the dark riders. Perhaps slip in a chariot?

TheWarSmith
22-08-2008, 04:11
I'm already at my full special capacity for 2k-2999 with 2 units of CoK, a chariot, and shades.

City Garrison had the awesome ability to have front rank of xbowmen, but back ranks of spears(best of both).

My problem was I feel that the force w/out some backup shooting(and virtually no magic) would be too one trick pony. It seems to need some backup force to get it working properly.

Jericho
22-08-2008, 05:59
I've always found that you can't just rely on one phase of the game to win, having a relatively cheap and dangerous shooting phase is a good thing. Winning combat is 10x easier if the units are whittled down to lose their static CR.

ser_hag
22-08-2008, 08:04
im not a big fan of giant units of COK myself...maybe i have too much MSU in me, but honestly i would rather have 3 units of 6 than 2 huge units. to free up a special slot, i would put a master or the dreadlord on the chariot (us 5 and all).

TheWarSmith
22-08-2008, 23:24
Is a character on chariot US5? I thought it was US4.

I wanted slightly larger units, mainly because they'll often be the main target of attacks, and with only 6 of them, you'd often have only 3-4 of them by the time you hit the enemy, which isn't enough shock to warrant the points of the CoK. Large units have a doublestacked goodness in that their largeness ensures they'll have adequate combat rez, and then the fact that you're hopefully beating him, and outnumbering w/ a fear causing unit

ser_hag
22-08-2008, 23:28
the chariot is us 4, add the character and it takes it to 5.

the point of having more smaller units is that if they do whittle one unit down, you still have 2 others that hit harder than one big unit. and combat res is better achieved by cavalry by kills and taking away rank bonuses than having 1 rank (both situations they will hopefully outnumber, so thats a wash). not to mention that with stupidity, having 6 cold ones go stupid is nnt nearly as punishing as having 10 go stupid.

Scythe
23-08-2008, 12:09
There's some merit in using larger unit though. Especially the fear aspect the cold ones bring can make them deathly in larger units. Win combat, and autobreak due outnumbering. Still, it is a tradeoff.

ser_hag
23-08-2008, 18:15
2 units of 6 > 1 unit of 10, unit size wise, so that logic fails. hit the unit in the front and on the side and you have a better chance of winning than if you hit in the front with one big unit.

Scythe
24-08-2008, 10:02
Not at all. Two units of 6 have a combined frontage of 300mm. A single unit of 10 (5x2) only has a frontage of 125mm. It is not efficient at all to deploy two units like that next to each other, taking up a huge part of your battle line. Also, when engaging the front, the two units take up way too much space, not granting you any significant advantage at all, while making both units a lot more vulnerable to countercharges (any of which is likely to be compensated by the rank bonus the single unit gives). Using two units simultaneously also enhances the negative effect of stupidity hugely, and costs you 2 special slots.

Right, hit the unit in the front and in the side. You don't expect it to happen just like that if you take two units, right? A way more efficient way to achieve this would be a big unit of 10, plus 5 dark riders with the points you saved on the command group / extra models of 2x6. They'll have a lot easier job flanking anything with their extra movement and fast cavalry status.

I'm not saying two different units are without their merits, far from it, but they have different uses compared to a big block of knights. What kind of role you want your cold one kinghts to fullfill is up to you in te end.

TheWarSmith
26-08-2008, 04:05
I agree with Scythe. It's not like Bretonnians where even if you can't flank and front charge with your 2 units, you can always go into the front w/ both and probably get almost all the attacks(in fact, you get MORE w/ 2 units).

And this isn't even a case of the Bretonnians, because they don't have to worry about the special choice thing w/ most of their cav.

There's SOOOO much competition for special slots in the DE list, Possibly the most I've ever run into, so splitting a big unit into 2 isn't desirable for me.