PDA

View Full Version : Most point effective Orc warboss?



Malorian
21-08-2008, 16:56
At 2000 points what would be the most point effective war boos?

Sure you can give him a bunch of magical gear, but does it really make him more effective?

It seems obvious that from reading a lot of the posts that a black orc warboss on a boar is the best way to go, but then what do you give him?

The one I saw on Avians site has: Akk'rit Axe, the Kicking Boots, and Best Boss 'At.

The best boss 'at is probably a must to keep him alive while fighting in the front ranks. Kicking boots is more of a question though. Is the price really worth the +1 attack? And how about the akk-rit axe? There doesn't seem to be one weapons that stands out from them all to be the most point effective.


Thoughts?

Mozzamanx
21-08-2008, 18:09
Personally, I like the idea of a Black Orc Boss with Kickin' Boots. He's cheap as chips, and puts out 6 Strength 6 hits a turn. For what it's worth, this is the same output as a Chaos Dragon.

Alternatively, give him the Brew if you're feeling adventurous, for extra cheap killiness.

semersonp
21-08-2008, 18:14
"point effective" boss...

savage orc... extra attack, ward save thrown in...

if you want nasty give him the armour of gork and a great weapon - S7 T6...

if you want el cheapo just give him the great weapon and have faith in his paint!

Malorian
21-08-2008, 18:26
Well it's not just about keeping him cheap. It's about getting the most offense/defence to point ratio.

The comparision to a dragon is a nice one : )

So protection wise is seems a black orc boss with heavy armor/shield on a boar is nice for 2+. Then it's a matter of what weapon to give him.

Semersonp: I don't know if having a frenzied general is a good idea...

Felworth
21-08-2008, 18:30
Yeah, I pretty much follow avian's warboss setup except I also give him the Enchanted Shield for added armor. So, 1+/5+.

Akrit Axe is an absolute godsend for me as I generally miss with all of my Warboss' attacks the first time through. 3+, bah, may as well be 6+.

semersonp
21-08-2008, 19:14
Semersonp: I don't know if having a frenzied general is a good idea...

you're right... its a GREAT idea! :)

who better to lead a cavalcade of greenskinned madmen than a brain-baked orc covered in war paint in which he believes so hard it actually gives him a ward save! throw him in a unit of savage orcs or regular boys (who know they gotta charge too otherwise the boss man is gonna leave them behind). great model... near naked orc with streaks of yellow death all upon him and an axe as big as he is over his head...

great i says, great! :)

but i got what you're after...

azhag would actually be the most effective... re-rolling animosity for units within 6" is stupid good, "akkrit axe" proxy, 2 wiz, wyvern, ward save... all this for the same cost as a black orc warboss on wyvern... but im sure other peoples have pointed that out...

skarsnik is a super choice for his tricksy traps... having an opponents war machines / heavy cav etc being deployed from his table edge is gamebreaking... plus throwing down 5 S6 power level 5 bolts a turn doesn't hurt things either...

and the others...

but personally i don't take special characters except upon request - i have the old skarsnik, back when gobbla was cute as all get out...

my standard 2250 force is lead by a black orc warboss on boar smack dab in a block of 30 boys...

akkrit axe, best boss hat, slashas... that's what i give him all for <235 points...

ld9, quell animosity, re-rollable misses, killing blow with 2/5 save... hasn't failed me yet... well, except my giant landed on him in turn six to turn a minor victory into a tie...

but these things happen :P

jpf1982
21-08-2008, 19:26
Black orc big boss on a boar with shaga's, kickin boots and your choice of either enchanted shield (take a regular if not) or the 6+ ward save

I mean I know the 5+ ward save is better than a 6, but come on, let's face facts. Your still going to fail and he's still going to die.

This way he'll have six ST6 attacks and he'll get +1 attack and +1 ST for every character in the 12" bubble around him. So if theres one guy now he's 7 ST7; 2 8 ST8 and he's etiher got a 1+ armor save or a 2+ and a 6+ ward.

Kaos
21-08-2008, 19:46
I have a black orc warboss with T6 and 5+ wardsave, keeps him alive most of the time and he doesnt really need much armor. And he got all the weapons he need with him. Hes 225 Pts.

I got a new savage orc warboss who will ride in a chariot having T6 -1 to hit and Best Basha. This will make him WS 7 thus most will hit him on 5s only and ws3 or lower on 6s. And most other characters and such have S6 so only wound on 4s. And also since he got a chariot he can run backwards to avoid being pulled and also a small wardsave on a 6. Hes 305 Pts.

If its most costeffective i dont know but its different to the standard 1+ save boar blorc with 5+ wardsave and rerolling hits with either killing blow or boots. And i like different..

Speaking of different i have played a couple games with a savage shamanlord with boots, wand of kaloth, waaagh paint and collar of zorga in a unit of blorcs with banner of butchery. Combined with magic that makes orcs or the whole army reroll hits and move around in the magic phase i found this to be a very scary killer indeed. thats four hits in one round and rerolling misses plus a unmodified leadershiptest or bye bye! :D and in combat he cast magic even better. Pretty fun to play so far.

Malorian
21-08-2008, 20:30
Seems like there are a lot of different opinions out there... makes it a tough choice...

And Semersonp, I'm not talking about special characters here (although I totally agree that skarsnik can ruin you opponents day depending on how you roll).

blurred
21-08-2008, 20:45
I've used a savage orc warboss with the Kickin' Boots, the Amulet of Protectyness and a great weapon succesfully: 6 S7 attacks is nasty and he's a beast in challenges against characters because of the amulet. Alternatively, one could give him an additional choppa instead of a great weapon for 7 S6 (on the first turn of combat) attacks. :)

Mozzamanx
21-08-2008, 20:47
I've used a savage orc warboss with the Kickin' Boots, the Amulet of Protectyness and a great weapon succesfully: 6 S7 attacks is nasty and he's a beast in challenges against characters because of the amulet. Alternatively, one could give him an additional choppa instead of a great weapon for 7 S6 (on the first turn of combat) attacks. :)

Sounds nasty, but personally I would go with the Akkrit Axe over the Great Weapon. S6 is still awesome and almost always wounds on a 2+, it just means you get alot more hits in. Plus you can get him mounted up with no downsides.

Malorian
21-08-2008, 20:56
Magical weapons are also nice incase you need to face vampire counts and need to take care of some wraiths or spirit hosts...

sulla
21-08-2008, 22:08
I like martok's best basha and iron gnasha's for offensive potential, and the spiteful shield and boss 'at for defence, all on a black orc on a boar.

But if you really want best value, I'd probably just say Gorbad (at the back of your army) since Ld 10 and rerolled break tests for all the army within 18" is far more valuable than a few attacks in cc.

Jelle
21-08-2008, 22:16
I don't take any magic items with my warboss.. the main reason why I want one is as a leadership boost and I take a cheap magic weapon with my non-BSB big bosses instead

if i took a magic item it'd be a defensive one for sure

Makaber
22-08-2008, 02:08
I like martok's best basha and iron gnasha's for offensive potential, and the spiteful shield and boss 'at for defence, all on a black orc on a boar.

Y'know, I looked a little at it yesterday, and Best Basha is a pretty poor choice for a Black Orc Warboss. WS7 is the magic number, WS8 isn't nearly as good because it has no effect on how easily you get hit by rank and file. WS3 will still need 5+, and you need WS9 to make the same go for WS4 enemies. Best Basha is awesome on a vanilla Orc Warboss or a Black Orc Bigboss, though.

So, disregarding WS, what you're left with is +1 Initiative, which raises you from 4 to a pretty mediocre 5 (still more than rank-and-file, still less than most other characters).

And the +1 Strength you can get elsewhere, either from the free Choppa if on foot, or a (slightly) cheaper Sword of Might.

So all in all I think it's a weapon best reserved for other character choices.

Malorian
22-08-2008, 05:45
Ok, so if you were going to give a warboss a magical weapon is Avian's way pretty much as effective as you get?

Killingblow instead of +1 attack might be nice IF you get luckly or are fighting something really nasty...

Braad
22-08-2008, 08:06
Best basha = goblins only, if you ask me. The +1 S also comes from the choppa (and if you just take choppa's, take 2) and too much points for the rest of the benefits.

Screamin' sword, kickin' boots and maybe something else to put the icing on. All this on a boar or something bigger, and of you go.

ser_hag
22-08-2008, 08:57
im totally sold on gorbad. general and bsb rolled together and a HUGE 18' ld 10 umbrella? woah. makes trolls exciting again.

Shamfrit
22-08-2008, 10:10
Orc Warboss, Effigy of Mork, Spiteful Shield, Choppa, Nibbla's Itty Ring. Wyvern.

Black Orc Warboss, Gnashas. Full mundane armour & Boar.

Either of the two work :D

ubertechie
22-08-2008, 10:28
Savage Orc warboss - Runefang - never fails - especially in a unit of 24 (6 wide) savage orc big uns

Gobbo Lord
22-08-2008, 17:51
im totally sold on gorbad. general and bsb rolled together and a HUGE 18' ld 10 umbrella? woah. makes trolls exciting again.

Until he takes a wound and the distance is reduced to 6", making him far worse than any other Lord level character, special or not, whose distance constantly remains at 12". And with toughness 5 and a 3+ armour save with no Ward Save, he will be taking a wound without much trouble.

Grom Hellscream
22-08-2008, 18:44
Orc Warboss, Effigy of Mork, Spiteful Shield, Choppa, Nibbla's Itty Ring. Wyvern.:D

Drop the ring, take kickin boots (or gnashas) and a sword of might -
that's my guy.

i've been toying with though:

black orc warboss, sword of striking, effigy of mork, armor of gork, shield.
248 pnts - 4 S5 attacks hitting mostly on 2's, enemy attacks hit usually on 5's (6's for rank and file), and characters wound on 4's (6's for rank and file)
mount him on a wyvern and he kicks some r+f butt.
WS7 S5 T6 A4 as 5+

or you could drop armor of gork, add enchanted shield and kickin boots, and heavy armor. 246
WS 7 S5 T6 A5 as 3+


but to mention the spec characters again... they're just better... Azhug is like worth 50ish more points than the 450 on his entry. just take him if you want a wyvern boss.

Shimmergloom
22-08-2008, 19:18
Until he takes a wound and the distance is reduced to 6", making him far worse than any other Lord level character, special or not, whose distance constantly remains at 12". And with toughness 5 and a 3+ armour save with no Ward Save, he will be taking a wound without much trouble.

And he's not even a black orc. Somehow the greatest orc warlord in history can't even keep his own units from squabbling and can't afford a decent armor or ward save.

Shamfrit
22-08-2008, 22:16
Nibbla's Ring on your Boss is a viable option. He has the toughness to carry it if it does go wrong, and it can slap the character he's fighting if you don't quite manage to carry off a kill, or take out Unit champions.

Da GoBBo
22-08-2008, 23:42
Until he takes a wound and the distance is reduced to 6", making him far worse than any other Lord level character, special or not, whose distance constantly remains at 12". And with toughness 5 and a 3+ armour save with no Ward Save, he will be taking a wound without much trouble.

You must inflict two wounds to reduce the distance to 6".


And he's not even a black orc. Somehow the greatest orc warlord in history can't even keep his own units from squabbling and can't afford a decent armor or ward save.

Animosity isn't that much of a deal. You can use other BO characters to minimize effects if needed.

I don't see what's not to like about Grimgor. Ok, he's not the most sturdy of fighter characters, but he is so much more. He's the only way to distribute ld. 10 among yer army, and not only that, distribute it up to 18". That's a long battle line. This range is reduced when wounded? Try to make sure he doesn't get wounded. There's enough tricks to make sure he stays unscathed. When he does enter battle, he is still more than able to hold his own. With al those Big Un units you can take with him, hitting power won't be a problem either. Bottomline, Grimgor gives you an (elite) army that is very difficult to impress with psychology and thats worth a lot.


Nibbla's Ring on your Boss is a viable option. He has the toughness to carry it if it does go wrong, and it can slap the character he's fighting if you don't quite manage to carry off a kill, or take out Unit champions.

I don't know. The Itty ring was allways a good way to drain dispell dice. If the spell went of, that's nice. 50% chance on wound after use doesn't strike me as a good deal though.

Shimmergloom
23-08-2008, 00:04
yeah it's no big deal when the greatest warlord of all time can't keep his own unit from not moving for an entire turn or keep his battleline in order.

LD10.

ser_hag
23-08-2008, 00:33
gorbad is on a boar, you can kinda pick the fights he gets into. he is a pretty fierce fighter, so if he gets the charge he should be safe from getting wounded. if you stick him in front of a tooled up vampire or some such, you deserve to have a crappy ld umbrella. but 18 inch ld 10 with bsb rerolls? how can you not love that for orcs?

Shamfrit
23-08-2008, 00:33
It's only on the roll of a one. And Str 5 against T5 with a 2+ armour save Warboss?

Pfffft.

'EADBUTT!

Gobbo Lord
23-08-2008, 00:58
Sorry double post.

Gobbo Lord
23-08-2008, 01:05
You must inflict two wounds to reduce the distance

Please read your book before making characters better than they are. Pg 33 "However, if Gorbad (Not Grimgor as you call him, hes someone else on page 36) suffers a wound his ladz will quickly lose some of their confidence in him and the range of both abilities is reduced to 6"."

Notice the use of the phrase SUFFERS A WOUND. This indicates 1 wound, whereas for your imaginary mounted "Grimgor" it would have to replace the letter "a" with the number 2 and pluralize the word "wound" ...

You also mention all the elite Big Uns that you can take with him. Gimmie a break...Big Un upgrade is second only to Boar Boyz for wasting points in our book. You lose the minor advantage we have in numbers if you upgrade everyone to Big Uns.

I stick to my statement, Gorbad is not worth it if you follow his rules...

Mozzamanx
23-08-2008, 01:06
He looks like he's one of the best Lords in the game, especially in context with his army and price. Why would you ever let him be in a position to be wounded? His bubble doesn't care about line of sight, so just stick him behind your battle line, on his own. Hell, make a little box for him out of Goblin units, just prevent any LOS.

Its a piece of pizzle to keep him at full wounds, just don't use him like a fightin' Boss.

sulla
23-08-2008, 02:11
Y'know, I looked a little at it yesterday, and Best Basha is a pretty poor choice for a Black Orc Warboss. WS7 is the magic number, WS8 isn't nearly as good because it has no effect on how easily you get hit by rank and file. WS3 will still need 5+, and you need WS9 to make the same go for WS4 enemies. Best Basha is awesome on a vanilla Orc Warboss or a Black Orc Bigboss, though.

WS8 means he hits almost every lord in the game on 3's.Seeing as a warboss is about the only way Orcs have of dealing with characters (short of a very lucky giant's attack), this is more important than it initially seems.


So, disregarding WS, what you're left with is +1 Initiative, which raises you from 4 to a pretty mediocre 5 (still more than rank-and-file, still less than most other characters).
And the +1 Strength you can get elsewhere, either from the free Choppa if on foot, or a (slightly) cheaper Sword of Might.

So all in all I think it's a weapon best reserved for other character choices.

The choppa's bonus only applies to the first turn of combat. An orc lord is extremely unlikely to kill a VC or chaos lord (or even a DE lord) in a single turn now so s6 is much more useful than s6 for the first turn of combat. For 5 points more than a sword of might, you get +1 ws and I... I look at it that unless I'm gonna give the best basha to someone else, I would take it on the big boss.

Besides, in this case, it's combined with the iron gnasha's for killing blow. With 4 attacks per turn, it's not unreasonable to hope for .5 of a kb each combat phase. That's why the ws is useful.




Its a piece of pizzle to keep him at full wounds, just don't use him like a fightin' Boss.

Exactly. When you have Ld10 goblins (with a reroll) throwing nets, you often don't need a fighting general :D. You just hold the enemy for a turn and then slam something into their flanks.

Da GoBBo
23-08-2008, 09:28
****, I'v always loved the story on Gorbad but ever since Grimgor stepped into the picture I'v been mixing up the names. This even resulted in me ordering Grimgor's miniature which I allready had instead of Gorbads one.


Please read your book before making characters better than they are. Pg 33 "However, if Gorbad (Not Grimgor as you call him, hes someone else on page 36) suffers a wound his ladz will quickly lose some of their confidence in him and the range of both abilities is reduced to 6"."

Notice the use of the phrase SUFFERS A WOUND. This indicates 1 wound, whereas for your imaginary mounted "Grimgor" it would have to replace the letter "a" with the number 2 and pluralize the word "wound" ...

The wound stuff is not the issue i this case. I don't know why but I'v always read "However, if Gorbad suffers a wound ... abilities is reduced BY 6"." Loose 6" each time you loose a wound. That allways seemed logical and perhaps thats why I read it like that. I guess you'r right though and am still a bit baffeled at the moment of writing.
I don't know if he ain't worth it though. Suddenly a 310pt seem very expensive for the purpose of negating a lot of psychology and breaking. A single (tooled up) Warboss and a single BSB is more expensive though. If you don't need your warboss to fight and you know how to keep Gorbad out of harms way(like Mozzamanx pointed out, allthough he is a bit to drastic perhaps) I think he's still worth it.


You also mention all the elite Big Uns that you can take with him. Gimmie a break...Big Un upgrade is second only to Boar Boyz for wasting points in our book. You lose the minor advantage we have in numbers if you upgrade everyone to Big Uns.

Our book? ...
Upgrading everyone is silly because you also want normal Orcs with shields. A big Un unit has never been a bad choice though. Last edition a big Un unit with spears, shields and the banner of butchery was a real treat. This unit became 25 points more expensive and now it stinks? Tool down a character, drop two wolfriders, or consider the fact that you don't have 30 orcs but 25 big Uns and there are your 25 points.
That's one unit. Everybody seems to agree Savage Orc Boar Boyz are worth having too so here is your second unit. Never tried em myself yet though.
You want a third? Personally I like to have Mork's spirit totem in a unit instead of having him on the BSB. It's more secure like that and you need that banner to be secure because you need those 3 dice. No fooling around with the totem. You could use black orcs, but that's more expensive. Like this, it leaves one character slot which I can fill up as I like, or not fill up at all which pays up for the orc unit I just upgraded.

All are viable options in my book. I don't know If I'd take them all in a regular battle but I can easily put 6000 points on the table without goin mad on characters. Suddenly those upgrades arn't that expensive, a welcome addition to your army and suddenly Gorbad is a very good choice.