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Jelle
21-08-2008, 22:09
hi guys, just a quick question i was hoping some of the more experienced players could answer for me:

I have a mounted hero in my infantry unit. Can I put the hero in the middle of the unit? This would result in the second rank having only 4 models.. is this acceptable? I am willing to lose the rank bonus but I would prefer not to play this way if it wouldn't be allowed in a tournament game

Gazak Blacktoof
21-08-2008, 22:13
Most people will find this perfectly acceptable and generally consider a model to count for the spaces of as many rank and file as it displaces.

Its best to check with the people you game with and any tournaments if you're particularly concerned.

Jelle
21-08-2008, 23:20
damn I actually thought this would be a common question, was hoping there was some kind of consensus on it


but you're right, I just play with friends and they'll let me have the rank bonus for sure

thanks for your reply!

Ethos
21-08-2008, 23:28
I called GW about this one.

The mounted hero counts for both the front and second rank. But not the third, as it doesn't fill the entire space of a model in the third rank.

Condottiere
22-08-2008, 00:14
Which leads to the interesting question, are rank and file space requirements to be counted as full ranks, considered fulfilled if the base size of a model joining a unit is as large or larger than the minimum size required?

Ethos
22-08-2008, 01:02
I would think so.

Skarsnik would take 6 spaces of Night Goblins, as would a Corpse Cart.

Khorne Herald on Juggernaut would take up 4 Bloodletters, and thus be counted as 4 Bloodletters for purposes of ranks. Same thing for other Heralds.

Apparently, the "5 models wide" goes for the unit models, not characters that join them. Thus, it would become "5 rank and file models wide", and any characters that displace any number of 'rank and file models' would count as such for purposes of ranks.

EvC
22-08-2008, 01:30
You're getting some pretty good, colid answers from GW customer support, thanks Ethos. Makes me think that they've briefed the trolls, perhaps even let them see a forthcoming FAQ in advance... which makes me optimistic :)

Zachary
04-09-2008, 21:18
Wow
Ive always thought that mounted units couldnt go in unmounted units. Thx for the info!!

Mark_of_Greenskins
04-09-2008, 21:46
I think that tou should be able to do it but you will lose the rank bonus

Condottiere
04-09-2008, 22:24
As long as you have a minimum of five models in each rank, you get the bonus.

Spirit
05-09-2008, 02:43
Wow
Ive always thought that mounted units couldn't go in unmounted units. Thx for the info!!

Mounted units have always (as far as i have played) been allowed in rank and file, but in previous editions, they could still be targetted by shooting, making them a bit pointless. Now however, there is no such restriction.

TheDarkDaff
05-09-2008, 04:33
I called GW about this one.

The mounted hero counts for both the front and second rank. But not the third, as it doesn't fill the entire space of a model in the third rank.

There isn't anything in the BRB to support this.

The basic history is in 6th Ed an Errata was released to allow models on larger base sizes to "count as" as many rank and file models as they displace in the unit when the BRB didn't ever consider this option. When the 7th Ed BRB was released they used the exact same wording from the 6th Ed BRB for this area. So the arguement is if GW meant for Characters on larger bases to count as the space they take up they should have put it into the normal rules (which they didn't).

So basically as the BRB is at the moment it supports that a model can only be counted in a single file (T10 has a great diagram for this) but that means you end up with big empty spaces in the unit(unless you are one of the specific exceptions to this Slaan, Screaming Bell and Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers). Most people just use the outdated 6th Ed errata.

Please mote there is nothing in the BRB that says you can't count a model for each rank it is in but there is a very specific bit about only a single model per file and each rank must contain the same number of models (except the rear rank).

MrBigMr
05-09-2008, 04:34
At least around here people have always counted mounted characters as space fillers.

But riddle me this, would an unmounted character in a mounted unit fill in the space in the ranks?

TheDarkDaff
05-09-2008, 05:32
At least around here people have always counted mounted characters as space fillers.

But riddle me this, would an unmounted character in a mounted unit fill in the space in the ranks?

As per the BRB yes they do. It is all about the number of models per rank/file. The size of the models base is irrelevant unless otherwise noted.