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ChaosBeast
21-08-2008, 21:32
in legion, the chaos bone in one of the hets throat makes him sing a song called the bedlame song. Soneka said in passing that his mother used to sing it to him, this was never expanded on in the book. why would soneka's mother know a chaos song? obviously the author leaves you to draw your own conclusions. however it does not seem to add anything to the story line except possibly hint that chaos had already crept in to the imperium.

could soneka's mother been a chaos cultist, or an untrained phyker, unknowingly tainted by chaos. opinions.

Rabid Bunny 666
21-08-2008, 23:43
Perhaps it was to hint at Chaos being fairly widespread and not always evil and spikey.

Fire Harte
22-08-2008, 00:04
Chaos isn't evil, its just politics.

But in all seriousness though, I think I have to agree with Rabid Bunny 666.

MrBigMr
22-08-2008, 00:43
Well, I haven't read the book, but what I've seem to have come up with little googling:
"A man named Shiban talks to Soneka how he remembers all his dreams and recites the “Song of Bedlam” (also known as a poem called “Tom O’Bedlam”, this is an old Scottish rhythm about an insane asylum and all sorts of events that we would call “Chaos” in nature)." (http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8065)
And:
http://home.blarg.net/~efreeman/Basement/TOB.html


So maybe it's just one of those things that have survived through the centuries and/or the author thought it sounded cool. It's not like GW hasn't made literary homages before (Lionel Johnson and his poem Dark Angel). Could be just an old tale/rhyme and nothing more. Doesn't make it overly "Chaos", but maybe that's not how the Inquisition sees it. There's plenty of old tales and folklore that has passed from ancient times to this day. Like the old tale of the Scorpion and the Turtle/Frog, which I believe derives from some India work and some of those can be well over few millenia old.

Brother Siccarius
22-08-2008, 05:43
in legion, the chaos bone in one of the hets throat makes him sing a song called the bedlame song. Soneka said in passing that his mother used to sing it to him, this was never expanded on in the book. why would soneka's mother know a chaos song? obviously the author leaves you to draw your own conclusions. however it does not seem to add anything to the story line except possibly hint that chaos had already crept in to the imperium.

could soneka's mother been a chaos cultist, or an untrained phyker, unknowingly tainted by chaos. opinions.

Perhaps it simply wasn't a "chaos song", but a song about chaos. Perhaps the het knew the song as well because he was taught it the same way, by his mother (especially likely considering the peculiar nature of the particular guardsmen unit he was with, if I remember correctly). It'd be like all fairy tales and folk songs, singing about dangers and monsters to avoid.

Mechanicus
22-08-2008, 08:39
You could even say it's a song about how the Chaos gods will corrupt Horus (not my work - this bit is towards the end of the post I've linked to) (http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8065&PID=169361#169361). It's interesting; but as to whether that's what it's meant to be... Anyway, I'll quote from his post:


From the hagg and hungrie goblin
That into rags would rend ye
And the spirit that stands by the naked man
In the Book of Moones – defend ye!
This speaks to the Genesis of the Primarchs from the Emperor’s Custody. The naked Horus (naked man in the Book of Moons, Lunar Wolves anyone?) has a spirit next to him that would want to defend those thrown into the warp (The Emperor anyone?). The Primarchs are being thrown through the warp and there are creatures that would seek to devour them or, tear them into rags.

That of your five sound senses
You never be forsaken,
Not wander from your selves with Tom
Abroad to beg your bacon
May you not suffer the fate of Horus, stripped of his sanity

(Chorus; sung after every verse)
While I doe sing “any food, any feeding,
Feeding, drink, or clothing”,
Come dame or maid, be not afraid,
Poor Tom will injure nothing.
Way of saying come and join us (Chaos), Horus will not hurt you

Of thirty bare years have I
Twice twenty been enraged,
And of forty been three times fifteen
In durance soundly caged.
Reference to Horus being on Cthonia, he’s been trapped there for many years, like all Primarchs he had to fight to bring peace/order for many years, and had peace for many years with the fighting.

On the lordly lofts of Bedlam,
Horus joins the Imperium
With stubble soft and dainty,
He is fresh and uncultured after coming from one of the gangs ruling Cthonia
Brave bracelets strong, sweet whips ding-dong,
The Emperor gave him a gift of the bracelet with the Zodiac and Horus takes up the reins of command (in this case whips, sweet because they are a positive thing in this case)
With wholesome hunger plenty.
He has plenty of unfulfilled ambition

With a thought I took for Maudlin
And a curse of cockle pottage,
With a thing thus tall skie blesse you all,
I befell into this dotage.
Thing thus tall = possibly reference to the Anathema, which put him in “this dotage”?

I slept not since the Conquest,
Horus has not rested since Ullanor
Till then I never waked,
Till the roguish boy of love where I lay
He has not awoken after being pricked by the Anathema until his brought by the rogue astrates who loves the Chaos Gods, Erebus and imitated the lieutenant commander who Horus loved like a brother/son
Me found and stript me naked.
He was stripped naked for the ritual. Can also refer to bearing his soul.

When I short have shorne my sowre face
And swigged my horny barrel,
When Horus has gotten rid of his old face he had while in service to the Emperor and swigged from the wine of his ambitions…
In an oaken inn I pound my skin
As a suit of gilt apparel.
He impounds his skin to the Chaos god, his deliverance to them as valuable as a suit of Gold.

The moon’s my constant Mistresse,
The Lunar Wolves are Horus’s constant love
And the lowly owl my morrowe,
Magnus will be Horus’s friend in later events (the morrow, can mean “mate” or tomorrow = literally “day to come”, possibly Abnett using both meanings at once)
The flaming Drake and the Nightcrow make
Angron/Alpharius? (Can mean either or both) and Mortarion will…
Me music to my sorrow.
Be compassionate and sympathetic to his feelings.

The palsie plagues my pulse
When I prigg your pigs or pullen,
Chaos is present in Horus as he corrupts elements of the Emperor’s Guard/Tech Priests, the Emperor’s basic stock…
Your culvers take, or matchless make
As well as when he steals the Iron Warriors (culvers = doves = creatures that often are put into smaller cages, which greatly annoy them to no end seeing as how they wish to be free, Peterabo was forced to be in sieges and garrisoning worlds brought to compliance all the time, making him excessively bitter leading to his revolt)
Your Chanticleers, or sullen.
Chanticleer was a rooster in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales who foresaw his own death and went a bit insane from it, an obvious reference to the Night Haunter

When I want provant with Humfire
I sup and when benighted,
I respose in Powles with waking souls
Yet never am affrightened.
Refers to Horus’s meeting with the Shadow Lord Undivided Greater Daemon a wee bit before he virus bombed Istavaan.

I know more than Apollo,
Horus knows more than the Emperor
For oft, when he lies sleeping
For while he is gone on Terra
I see the stars at bloody wars
He sees war sweeping the galaxy
In the wounded welkin weeping.
Refers to the wounded arch in the sky, Eye of Terror anyone?

The moone embrace her shepherd
The Luna Wolves follow Horus into damnation
And the queen of Love her warrior,
Slaanesh takes Fulgrim into her embrace
While the first doth horne the star of morne,
Horus fools the Emperor into believing he’s up to nothing
And the next the heavenly Farrier.
Fulgrim’s attempt to convert Ferrus Manus, Farrier = Hasphaestus, the Greek God of the Forge.

The Gipsie Snap and Pedro
Are none of Tom’s companions,
Two other Primarchs will never join Horus, Khan and Guilliman?
The punk I skorne and the cut purse sworne
Punk = Other loyal Primarch, cut purse (stealthy) = Crovax
And the roaring boyes bravadoe.
Lemann Russ

The meek, the white, the gentle,
Me handle touch and spare not
Horus kills all loyalists, possible reference to Istavaan?
But those that cross Tom Rynosseros
Do what the panther dare not.
Those that cross Horus do “what panthers will not”, possible reference to the Flight of the Einstein

With a host of furious fancies
Whereof I am commander
With a burning spear and a horse of air,
To the wilderness I wander.
Horus takes his new forces and goes to the wilderness.

By a knight of ghostes and shadowes
I summon’d am to tourney
Ten leagues beyond the wild world’s end,
Methinks it is no jounry.
The “Knight of Ghosts and Shadows” (representative of the Chaos Gods) tells Horus it is time for him to go to battle with another.

ChaosBeast
22-08-2008, 08:59
very well thought out there Mechanicus! sounds good, but there was only one verse in the book and i think the poem was written first, so unless they wrote the whole of 40k background around it, it is unlikely. but its still a good idea and as good as any of them. :)

Mechanicus
22-08-2008, 10:00
very well thought out there Mechanicus! sounds good, but there was only one verse in the book and i think the poem was written first, so unless they wrote the whole of 40K background around it, it is unlikely. but its still a good idea and as good as any of them. Once again: Not mine. But just because something wasn't written with a purpose in mind doesn't mean it can't be adapted to that purpose. Genestealers weren't written with Tyranids in mind, C'tan weren't written with immortal star-vampires in mind, the Biblical war in heaven wasn't written with the Horus Heresy in mind, but each pair, at one point or another, were connected.

x-esiv-4c
22-08-2008, 11:19
ON the topic of Legion, what exactly was the deal with all those little stone heads?

ChaosBeast
22-08-2008, 11:35
id forgotten about them, they also were never expanded on, neither was the question of whether they were all the same face or not answered, which soneka decided was important, but they were attacked before they could check. and the weird man without a heart, what was he? we know he was to do with the alpha legion but was he an alien? there are a lot of lose ends in that book that dont seem to contribute to the plot.

Mechanicus
22-08-2008, 12:13
ON the topic of Legion, what exactly was the deal with all those little stone heads?The identical stone heads, in my mind, are foreshadowing. Like the Alpha Legion saying they are all Alpharius, and all looking alike, the question 'are they actually all the same?' is important. With the Alpha Legion, they turn out not to all be the same.

and the weird man without a heart, what was he? we know he was to do with the alpha legion but was he an alien? No, he was an Alpha Legion operative (hence the Hydra), like Hurtado was later on. We don't know if they all have these augmentations in them, but they might.

Somnicide
22-08-2008, 23:09
uhm, the song wasn't chaos. the chaos was the fact that he knew the song that the mother used to sing.

Chem-Dog
23-08-2008, 02:16
So maybe it's just one of those things that have survived through the centuries and/or the author thought it sounded cool. It's not like GW hasn't made literary homages before

Forget not the Author, Dan Abnett has used stuff familiar to us and plopped it into his books before, Eisenhorn quotes Romeo and Juliet at one point, it's a neat little familiarity trick, so you know these weirdos living so far off in the future on alien worlds are still tied to us, in some tiny way.

Hrw-Amen
23-08-2008, 16:02
Yes, there are many quotes that tie in with current times. It just shows that this is a continuation of our own history. For example, I'm reasonably sure that in the Lightening Tower Malcador has got the Mona Lisa in his quarters somewhere. Its a bit like someone nowadays having a roman sculpture that was originally in some famous temple or something.

But with the song, I guess that when humans go out to the stars they will take them with them and if they go to different planets then those songs will go to all of those planets with them. They may change slightly over the years but will remain essentially the same. A bit like the Lords Prayer, depending on which church you go to, (I try not to by the way.) they have various different lines to it, but it is similar enough to still know what it is and recognise it.

With the heads, well, do we have to know what they are? Wouldn't it be a bit like arriving at Easter Island. All those heads but until recently no-one understood or knew what they were about. It did not change the fact that they were there though. Maybe it is something similar, not everything in life gets explained, or at least not straight away.

Allen
24-08-2008, 20:31
ON the topic of Legion, what exactly was the deal with all those little stone heads?

The Cabal envoys explain that the Primordial Annhilator placed an hidden weapon on the planet, a weapon that was used before. The heads of different size could be the heads of the previous inhabitants of the planet...previous the first activation of the Black Cube.