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View Full Version : Slaanesh dominated daemons and what to do with the Siren Song



Kroxigore
22-08-2008, 16:03
Hi Guys, I'm thinking about a daemon army list, which is mainly dominated by slaanesh daemons and would like to get some opinions on some Slaanesh tactics.

I think, that a slaanesh army can be really powerful, if you use its advantages properly. For instance the Siren Song is IMO one of the most powerful gifts in the game, as it can shred your enemies battle plan to peaces. Let me explain what I mean with the help of some uses for the Siren Song:

1. Isolating and flanking the enemies uber cavalry unit:
You place a herold with the siren in a unit of daemonettes with that standard that makes the first instability test a stubborn one (can someone tell me the english name, I only have the German version?!). Then you let the enemy charge (usually one should be able to prevent him from fleeing with a carefully placed unit of Furies, which are either placed behind him or which threaten to declare a charge in your next turn, when the cavalry unit is fleeing). In the following combat you might lose a few daemonettes and the combat as well, but that's okay IMO. In your following CC phase, you are free to flank the unit with whatever you like (i.e. a KoS or else). Of course you can also use a KoS with Siren Song to lure enemy cavalry towards you.
2. Killing enemy warmachines:
If I'm not mistaken, it should be possible to force a warmachine crew to charge you. The way to do it is pretty simple: use a herold on his own or in a unit of light cavalry and move near the warmachine.
3. Extra movement:
If the enemy has an easy to kill unit, that may not flee or the enemy is stupid enough to let it charge instead of fleeing, you can force it to charge, destroy it and overrun afterwords. This can give a unit of daemonettes an extra movement and can open a flank for them. This is nasty especially when combined with that siren banner, which disallows enemies to flee from a charge, as you can potentially get into an armies flank in turn 2.

However, comments on the tactics mentioned above and other tactics with slaanesh daemons are much appreciated!

Xavier
22-08-2008, 17:35
The banner you refer to is the Standard of Ecstasy.

In regards to point 2, warmachine crews can never charge; forced or otherwise; so that won't work.

Really with a mono Slaanesh list you have to concentrate on leadership warfare so to speak; by this I mean reducing the enemy leadership with the banner that confers -2 to the enemy leadership; then forcing as many psychology tests as you possibly can. Terror; Fear; Stupidity and of course Pavane and Slicing Shards.

It takes quite a 'delicate approach' to use Slaanesh daemons well without any other gods daemons in the list; very fragile; and don't hit that hard comparatively; you just need to pick the fights; and go for combined charged; and deal with any shooting threats as a priority. Taking furies can help with this regard (I know, not technically Slaanesh; but so what... just make them look Slaaneshi :p)

If the enemy has any magic you really need to try and take out the casts fast; whether that be with suicide charges of Fiends or mounted Daemonettes.

MrBigMr
22-08-2008, 20:01
I've ran a pure Slaanesh list since SoC and I've forgone all the playing around for the basic benefits of Slaanes: Speed. Apart from 'nettes, my army has pretty much a 20" range and fast cavalry to boot. Top that with ASF and some gifts, and you can pick your battles anywhere you like.

I agree that Ld. is where Slaanesh is good at hurting. Anything that's immune to it is going to be a bit of a problem. BSB with -2 Ld. banner, allure and torment blade is a hard target to move in CC. Ld. test at -2 to hit her, Ld. test at -2 when suffering wounds from her. If you fail, you don't get to hit. And on top of that you get +1A for the blade (jury's still out on that, but so far the FAQ does support it).

But the thing Slaanesh lacks is punch. My ladies have taken down giants and fully pimped black coaches, but it has always been a long and hard process. Only things that are above S3 are my heralds, prince and fiends. I miss the old days of S4 'nettes.


Furies are perfect escort for a prince, if you choose to walk the path of the loser and not take a Kipper (as many seem to think). They can screen the prince from enemy fire and charges, while giving it a good punch in CC as they charge the same target. And they benefit from the prince's Ld. if its the general.

TheWarSmith
23-08-2008, 06:36
Well, the nastiest combo is to have the masque do the -2 Ld dance, then have the -2 Ld banner,

Then you can park your Keeper of Secrets and force terror checks at -4, and go nuts casting slicing shards, and making things stupid for the rest of the game.

Cragspyder
23-08-2008, 07:49
Do either of those abilities have any restrictions, or do they hit everything on the table?

veilwalker
23-08-2008, 14:54
The masque can select 1 enemy unit and reduce its LD by 1d3 within 12" (can't recall) but does not need LOS.

The banner reduces enemy LD by 2 within 12" of the banner.

So the combination will reduce 1 unit LD by 3 to 5.

thisisntnotjt
23-08-2008, 15:09
I've been playing a list that utilizes these tactics, though I've thrown in a dash of Tzeentch. I used the masque for a while, but frankly I found her way over the top, leaving my games with no real challenge. Instead I sacrificed some points to take a HoTzeentch with Master of Sorcery so he can know the LoDeath for Doom and Darkness. It's a bit more harsh, but not a guarentee if my opponent has half a brain.

TheWarSmith
23-08-2008, 15:14
Yeah, the Tzeentch herald w/ doom and darkness only makes it worse. But that's something that the enemy player has at least SOME control over, as he can hopefully dispell that one if he has half a brain and realizes that whatever unit it was cast on is either going to run like a schoolgirl, or get bladed to death by the keeper.

I saw this tactic work against an orc unit(only masque, banner, and Keeper), and the ENTIRE unit of 30 died in one turn.

Kroxigore
24-08-2008, 10:49
In regards to point 2, warmachine crews can never charge; forced or otherwise; so that won't work.


D'oh, I new, I remembered something like this, but wait, if they do not have the option to charge, wouldn't they have to flee, similar to a unit, which is immune to psychology and therefore has to charge. I'm not sure about this ruleswise, so I wouldn't use this as a regular tactic, but it does make sense to me somehow.


It takes quite a 'delicate approach' to use Slaanesh daemons well without any other gods daemons in the list; very fragile; and don't hit that hard comparatively; you just need to pick the fights; and go for combined charged; and deal with any shooting threats as a priority. Taking furies can help with this regard (I know, not technically Slaanesh; but so what... just make them look Slaaneshi :p)

I thought about furies as well, I think, it's absolutely okay fluff wise to have them in a mono-slaanesh list. They should be also useful especially for hunting down units, which chose to flee from the siren song. Also they are increadibly cheap for fear causing flyers IMO.


If the enemy has any magic you really need to try and take out the casts fast; whether that be with suicide charges of Fiends or mounted Daemonettes.

This would be another use for the siren song, just put a herold with siren song in a unit of light cav. and move it in front of the unit, the wizard is in. As the daemonettes in the unit should go first (as they are daemonettes they should, ruleswise), it should even be possible to win the combat, if it is weak infantry. Otherwise one could go for the banner of ecstasy.




Furies are perfect escort for a prince, if you choose to walk the path of the loser and not take a Kipper (as many seem to think). They can screen the prince from enemy fire and charges, while giving it a good punch in CC as they charge the same target. And they benefit from the prince's Ld. if its the general.

I never thought of that, I think, the DP is one of the only units, that is a monster, but not a big creature, so you can screen it. The problem with that is just, that the stuff, that is dangerous normally are warmachines and shooting units on hills and cannons. As both pretty much ignore the screening, the use of that tactic is very dependent on the enemies army.


I've been playing a list that utilizes these tactics, though I've thrown in a dash of Tzeentch. I used the masque for a while, but frankly I found her way over the top, leaving my games with no real challenge. Instead I sacrificed some points to take a HoTzeentch with Master of Sorcery so he can know the LoDeath for Doom and Darkness. It's a bit more harsh, but not a guarentee if my opponent has half a brain.

I thought about a slaanesh/tzeench list too, as a bit more powerdice increase the chances of getting some spells through. The thing that is really, really mean about the masque, is that it really reduces the ld value instead of giving a penalty to ld tests such as doom and darkness. This makes it possible to just use the masque on the enemy general to make him useless for ld purposes most of the time.


Yeah, the Tzeentch herald w/ doom and darkness only makes it worse. But that's something that the enemy player has at least SOME control over, as he can hopefully dispell that one if he has half a brain and realizes that whatever unit it was cast on is either going to run like a schoolgirl, or get bladed to death by the keeper.

I saw this tactic work against an orc unit(only masque, banner, and Keeper), and the ENTIRE unit of 30 died in one turn.

The combination of all tose ld penalties with shards is increadibly mean. 'At least' there is no guarantee to get the shards, as that would IMO be a bit over the top.
All in all, I think, the meanest combo, that one could think of would be a KoS with siren song and lvl 4 wizard, the masque, a BSB with the great icon of dispair and a tzeench wizard with master of sorcery and lore of death. I would combine this with one or two units of horrors, to weaken the magic defense of the enemy (the rest of the army would be slaanesh stuff) and voila you have the army of doom (and darkness...). You agree?

MrBigMr
24-08-2008, 11:29
I thought about furies as well, I think, it's absolutely okay fluff wise to have them in a mono-slaanesh list.
Yeah, nothing bad in it at all. Nothing like some harpies or succubuses to fly around. I don't think there's anything wrong about having undivided daemons in a mono-god army. It's still mono-god. To tell the truth, my DP is undivided as well just because there's not a damn thing I would get from dedicating her. 35pts. for the ability to call her Slaaneshi Daemon Prince(ss).


I never thought of that, I think, the DP is one of the only units, that is a monster, but not a big creature, so you can screen it. The problem with that is just, that the stuff, that is dangerous normally are warmachines and shooting units on hills and cannons. As both pretty much ignore the screening, the use of that tactic is very dependent on the enemies army.
Well, naturally it's not the ultimate option, but 60pts. for 5 furies that can save the DP from one or two salvos from enemy fire, is not that bad. Besides, they're (assuming you take wings on the DP) all flying and can cross great distances in one go. So using some terrain features or merely far enough to the side of enemy shooters (out of their LOS), you're sure to avoid most of the problems you've presented.

They can be used to screen others as well. Skirmishers block LOS, right? And chariots aren't large targets, right? Those 5 furies can stretch as loosely as possibly and still block LOS to a chariot, right?


But so far I haven't had a chance to try this tactic out. But there's a 3000pts. tournament coming this fall and I've had to stretch my legion quite a bit to reach that mark. I'll be having a 6 furies to screen the DP. Hopefully they get to do something.

Kroxigore
24-08-2008, 13:38
Well, naturally it's not the ultimate option, but 60pts. for 5 furies that can save the DP from one or two salvos from enemy fire, is not that bad. Besides, they're (assuming you take wings on the DP) all flying and can cross great distances in one go. So using some terrain features or merely far enough to the side of enemy shooters (out of their LOS), you're sure to avoid most of the problems you've presented.

They can be used to screen others as well. Skirmishers block LOS, right? And chariots aren't large targets, right? Those 5 furies can stretch as loosely as possibly and still block LOS to a chariot, right?

All three are right. The thing with it though is, that you can block LoS to your DP or chariot or else, but you won't be able to charge with whatever you have screened. At least you can't charge enemy shooters, which is not too good IMO.



But so far I haven't had a chance to try this tactic out. But there's a 3000pts. tournament coming this fall and I've had to stretch my legion quite a bit to reach that mark. I'll be having a 6 furies to screen the DP. Hopefully they get to do something.


Going with a DP to a tournament is very brave of you IMO. :) The thing with the DP is, that you can actually screen it, but if you took a KoS, you wouldn't have to screen it that much, as you need not be afraid to get charged and you have a bit more survivability to shooting (although the -1 to shooting at the KoS due to being a large target is a bit of a bummer). If I were you, I would take a KoS.
Has anyone else around here ever tried out a DP?

MrBigMr
24-08-2008, 18:54
Going with a DP to a tournament is very brave of you IMO. :) The thing with the DP is, that you can actually screen it, but if you took a KoS, you wouldn't have to screen it that much, as you need not be afraid to get charged and you have a bit more survivability to shooting (although the -1 to shooting at the KoS due to being a large target is a bit of a bummer). If I were you, I would take a KoS.
Has anyone else around here ever tried out a DP?
I don't have a KoS and though I've highly coveted the Ultraforge Pleasuredemon, I've come to the conclusion that I will not yield before the fab of the day. My army worked before without a Kipper and who knows, maybe some day it'll work again. I won't spend $80 to satisfy GW's view on things. My army has a theme and a once mortal DP is pretty much a key element in it. I could take my dwarfs I'm working on, but I can't stretch them to 3000pts. They're done as "competitive" as possible.

A DP can have ASF as well, so not so much fear of being charged. Along with the Corona gift, I get more hits before the enemy. And with wings I get to pick my fights. In the end, the amount of points I save I can put into more daemons.


All three are right. The thing with it though is, that you can block LoS to your DP or chariot or else, but you won't be able to charge with whatever you have screened. At least you can't charge enemy shooters, which is not too good IMO.
Here's two pics to illustrate some uses. They're not that accurate in scale or such, but I hope you get the idea.
-Pic one. A chariot is advancing towards a unit, but a bolt thrower threatens it from the side. The furies fly in and block the thrower's LOS.
-Pic two. DP is advancing on two shooting units. The furies position themselves so that only a limited number from one of the units has LOS to the Prince, giving it a LOS on them and allowing it to charge with the Furies during the next turn.