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Lupercal!
23-08-2008, 00:02
This poll is opinion based and purely personal. Back up your choice with facts surrounding the incident, why it's the most heroic, and what consequences arose afterwards.

I know I probably left out a lot of heroic moments in Warhammer 40k's history, choose other and specify which incident.

...

I chose the defense of Terra for obvious reasons.

Mozzamanx
23-08-2008, 00:11
Aurelian on Angron was fairly awesome.

100 Grey Knight Terminators teleporting to certain death, in the form of 12 Bloodthirsters and a Daemon Primarch. Just more evidence of why Daemonhunters roxxor your soxxorz.

Flame Boy
23-08-2008, 00:28
I vote for the self-sacrifice of Sanguinius during the Horus Heresy. That is the only example where he was 100% certain he was going to die, yet he still did it anyway out of loyalty. There are more impressive deeds, such as Yarrick's work on Armageddon, but standing up to the most powerful Primarch at the height of his power is the most heroic in my book.

CHOOBER SNIPES
23-08-2008, 00:31
have to agree with flame boy. heck, if Sanguinius didnt do that, Horus would have had enough strength to COMPLETELY kill the Emperor. Maybe even before the Emperor killed him. So maybe Sanguinius saved the Imperium by giving the Emperor the chance :p

Narf
23-08-2008, 00:32
I've voted for yarrick's defence of Armaggeddon, though i thought Ghazgul only turned up twice, and the first battle was Space Wolves / Grey Knights against Chaos

NARF

Lupercal!
23-08-2008, 00:36
I've voted for yarrick's defence of Armaggeddon, though i thought Ghazgul only turned up twice, and the first battle was Space Wolves / Grey Knights against Chaos

NARF

Yeah, you're right. Yarrick defended Armaggedon three times. Had so many details to remember when writing the poll. :confused:

Koryphaus
23-08-2008, 00:52
G. Thraka waged war on Armageddon twice. The 1st War of Armageddon was 500 years earlier.

Personally, I voted for the defense of the Emperor's Palace during the Horus Heresy. Although I have to say that Rogal Dorn's sacrifice to stop the 1st Black Crusade rates very highly, as does the Ultramarine's last stand on Macragge.

Hicks
23-08-2008, 01:37
Defence of Armageddon all the way. The sheer number of different Imperial forces is crazy cool as is the amount of Orks present. It's not just what Yarrick did, it's what the whole Imperium did to save this planet that I find wonderfull.

Chem-Dog
23-08-2008, 02:19
Emperor pwning Horus, of course :D

Tanith Ghost
23-08-2008, 03:29
Sanguinius vs Horus- Horus finds out that his angelic brother has great big brass ones.

Uber Scroober
23-08-2008, 03:38
Defence of Cadia just because i think gaurd are cool :P

ironcurtin117
23-08-2008, 03:58
I voted for Pretty boy vs. Horus but I really believe that any stand made by any sentient morally concious population (not orks, necrons, or chaos) against the 'Nids is pretty damn heroic. I mean any stand against a force known as the Great Devourer is pretty heroic

Grimbad
23-08-2008, 04:22
Armaggedon was attacked thrice, Yarrick only defended it twice.
But in seriously epic ways.

Nazguire
23-08-2008, 04:50
Horus vs. Sanguinius.

When Horus realises that those wings are good indicator of how big his kahunas are.

Seriously. Sanguinius knew he was going to die fighting Horus. No other outcome. Only if he joined Horus and Chaos would he survive. But he continued to fight for his ideals and died for them, not betraying his friends or beliefs. Even managed to stab Horus too :)

Sanguinius: Has a bigger penis then you.

clanfield
23-08-2008, 05:18
sanguinus he knew he would die and went anyway

Zephyr_Azure
23-08-2008, 06:06
All of those above have never been narrated enough for my liking to convey the sense of heroism shown in the "Brothers of the Snake" novel by Dan Abnett.

Allow me to clarify.

Tactical Squad Damocles is tryling to hold the line so their fellow brother squads could attempt a breakout from the ork cordon. During this battle, Brother Dyognes starts getting swarmed by the orks, the corpses of those he killed weighing him down as the green tide dragged him under. Brother Natus sees this and charges bolter blazing to save him. Upon pulling him to his feet, Natus is wounded, shots tearing off his bionic arm and two landing deep in his chest plate. He fights on at Dyognes side regardless.

Then a Nob emerges from the horde and tackles Natus, its jaws latching on and crushing half of the marines helmet with a bite. Dyognes turns to help, his bolter tearing the nob apart before kneeling and taking off the helmet of his fallen brother. Natus is down, but he still is barely conscious. Both of his eyes were gone.

'Get up! Get up!' -Dyognes
'Where? Where are you, lad? -Natus
'Come on old man!' Dyognes shouted back.

His voice is cut off. An ork pike has transfixed him straight through his chest, the tip splintering out from chestplate, blood gushing out from the horrendous wound. He sank slowly to his knees, still snapping off bolt shots from his weapon as the orks enclosed upon the two wounded marines. He found Natu's hand and placed his brother marine's bolter into it.

'Keep shooting!' he gurgled.

Sightless, Natus took the gun and fired wildly. Dyognes held onto his waist and tried to guide his shots into the incoming orks before his strength gave.

'Dyognes! Dyognes!'-Natus

But there was no answer. Dyognes slowly sagged and slumped to the ground, the spear that transfixed him awkwardly propping him up from the bloodsoaked ground.

Still calling his brother's name, Natus continued to fire until the clip ran out.

--------read the novel to see the full battle play out, the best 40k novel I ever read.



This won the heroism award for me. Not some named character doing something that probably had more influence on the universe but the struggle of men bound by blood and honor fighting to the last despite all odds. Hats off to Dyognes for his bravery. He made marines seem much more human in my mind by showing they still have emotions and personalities underneath. Completly changed my outlook upon how marines tend to be portrayed.


P.S: these are not the direct lines from the novel.

IncrediSteve
23-08-2008, 06:16
I was totally about to pull something from Gaunts Ghosts or Brothers of the Snake [basically anything by Dan Abnett] but Zephyr_Azure beat me to it.

Agreed x 10

Lothlanathorian
23-08-2008, 07:03
Yeah, Yarrick only defended it twice. Also, I think I am going for Sanguinius. He knew he would die, but went and did it anyways, knowing the cost.

Burning Star IV
23-08-2008, 07:30
Whats with all this Sanguinus love? He's a *******' primarch, so he'd better be heroic. Why commend him for something he should do anyway?

Thor. I voted for Thor.

Poukis
23-08-2008, 07:40
I voted for Sanguinius. Although i think that he teleported to Horus' room by accident (at least that's in the Chaos codex isn't it?) he went after defending the palace and killing the daemon, with almost no strength left, and still gave Horus a tough time. I know he is a Primarch, but it's still a pretty damn cool scene :)
Cheers

Radium
23-08-2008, 09:19
W00t! First Yriel vote!

Eldar don't generally sacrifice themselves, and by doing this he crippled the hivefleet. Which would probably have eaten a rather large portion of the Imperium if it hadn't be stopped...
My second choice would have been sanguinius, but he's a primarch, so he's supposed to be all heroic like.

Idaan
23-08-2008, 10:03
Every single fight in which Imperial Guard fights against overwhelming enemy and emerges victorious. So let's say both Armageddon wars vs Ghazghkull.

Seriously, Marines aren't heroic. Heroism is overcoming fear and your weakness, which isn't possible when you're brainwashed not to know fear. It's like saying that that lone Necron warrior fighting against whole squad Terminators was a hero - he just has no other possibility and doesn't value his own life. He is ordered to do it, so he does it.



Other than that I'd vote for Eldanesh vs. Khaine. Seriously, your most powerful god goes insane and is hellbent on destroying your race. Other gods are separated from you by Asuryan's barrier. You are the last one capable of communicating with them, you are the messiah of your race and your mission is to restore the order that was before the War in Heaven. To do that you have to go and kill your god, the one you worshipped for your whole life, and on whose side you fought, seen him take on other gods on equal footing and defeat them. So you go and fight him. And you lose.

rickie8437
23-08-2008, 10:28
my vote is for the defence of Terra

3 under strenght legions stopping 8 legions (EC are in city playing with locals) i would say that battle would have had many heroic moments and would have been a good fewlast stands as they tryed to hold back the traiter legions

but im sure when we get to the terra books we will see should be around 2020 as gw will keep bring out books that have nothing to do with the story (decent of angels )

tsutek
23-08-2008, 10:29
My money's on all the loyalist marines that died a heroic death while protecting Terra from their fallen brothers. Had they given up the fight, the imperium would be worshiping Horus as their God in the 41st millemium (and we all know how lovely that would be)

Guards are heroic because they overcome their fear? I guess so, but still, a fanatic battle monk defending their father and their father's kingdom against their own kind, man, just oozes psycho-pressure all over (being crazy and being a hero, there's a really fine line in between..)

"For every battle honour, a thousand warriors die, unsung and unremembered."

abasio
23-08-2008, 12:55
The defence of Terra, many non-famous acts of heroism. Thousands probably!

Templar-Sun
23-08-2008, 16:11
I have two in mind.

1: From HH novels when Fulgrim puts his fist through the Eldar Avatar's face. I play both marines and Eldar and this showed me what kind of bada$$ Fulgrim is.

2: Again from HH. The story talks about how Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus are blood brothers, they forge weapons for each other and fight back to back against numerous foes and blah blah. Fulgrim goes to Ferrus to recruit him for Horus certain he would join. Instead, Ferrus, without hesitation calls him a traitor and then explains how he will personally destroy him for it... Rofl Sadly Ferrus dies for it but still, pure, unqestioning devotion and loyalty to the Emperor ftw!!

Templar-Sun

The Anarchist
23-08-2008, 17:16
I gotta go with the Space Marines that realised their legions had gone to far, and choose to stand with the Emperor ratehr than their legions and Primarchs.

its true heroism to stand aganst all your brothers and the men is whos image you are made; your primarch! yet we know some astartes did; Loken, Garro, and so many more.

Kronos
23-08-2008, 17:56
Whats with all this Sanguinus love? He's a *******' primarch, so he'd better be heroic. Why commend him for something he should do anyway?

Thor. I voted for Thor.

Totally agree, one on one don't seem to heroic to me, especially as he is a primarch.


Marneuas Calgar on the other hand, fighting off a horde of varacious bugs, definitly.

Slaaneshi Slave
23-08-2008, 17:57
The Guardsmen who climbs out of the trench to throw a demo pack at the Carnifex.

Lord Merlin
23-08-2008, 19:07
read fifteen hours, that's got to be the most heroic thing in the galaxy, or Malcador strapping himself into the golden throne to try to save the imperium.

Fire Harte
23-08-2008, 19:36
I have to say other, the Brothers of the Snake showed heroes.

Also I thought in the end of the IG book Desert Raiders (yes it did suck), there is about 7 or 8 holding off a tyranid invasion force, almost all of it, yeah they fail, but it takes balls to do that.

Lupercal!
23-08-2008, 19:55
How do you define heroism though? People made good points that heroism is overcoming fear and Space Marines know no fear. Sanguinius was bred with loyalty in his gene-seeds. Wasn't he just doing his job?

Slaaneshi Slave
23-08-2008, 19:57
How about the Necromundan 8th "Spiders" voluntarily getting off the evacuation ships to hold off the enemy so that Warmaster Solon could evactuate at the Battle of Deucalion. They were killed to a man, and knew it would happen.

Treadhead_1st
24-08-2008, 00:26
Hmm. Tough one - either way, I'm going with "other" :P

1) Armageddon, the Salamanders destroying 3-9 (can't recall the exact number) Ork Roks along the Hemlock River Fortress from the inside out As in getting inside them and blowing them to hell - with not exactly great numbers of teleport available.

Seriously, Ork Roks are hard - the story where a large portion of a titan legion getting destroyed to take one on is epic, and the Marines do it on foot. And they're a shooty (albeit short-range) chapter, not like the Blood Angels, which would have excelled in the close confines.

2) Any time (Ciaphas Cane, short story in Nid dex [Carnifex battering way into base etc], Fall of Malvolion [particularly]) the Guard stand up to Nids. Fall of Malvolion is brilliant - the Guardsmen see the Lamenters land, get slaughtered - and keep fighting. Yes, they're shortly butchered to a man, but they know they have no hope but fight anyway (ok, so they were trying to flee the planet, and made a suicidal cross-continental run to attempt to out-'fleet' the Nids, which was doomed to fail, but they fought anyway).

gamer2456
24-08-2008, 02:53
I voted for Yarrick, but i have to say the defence of Vervunhive always struck me as the pinnacle of heroism. The defenders were heavily outnumbered and surrounded by millions of chaos fanatics. Yet they continued to resist and halted every enemy attack. Even when the walls were finally breached they continued to fight.

GodofWarTx
24-08-2008, 06:43
How do you define heroism though? People made good points that heroism is overcoming fear and Space Marines know no fear. Sanguinius was bred with loyalty in his gene-seeds. Wasn't he just doing his job?

The primarchs were not marines.

Sanguinius's best friend and closest brother, Horus, turned on him. Not only did it happen, but Sanguinius knew he was going to be betrayed. To walk a delicate tightrope on an analogy here, it was like Jesus knowing Judas was going to betray him, but proceeding anyway. If you *know* in your bones that you are going to die by your closest brothers own hand, and you can run away or avoid the confrontation to preserve yourself, you can. Its pretty heroic going to die a *horrible* death, a death so severe your decendants still feel your pain 10,000 years later.

Of course, this is after taking to the skies for several days fighting the King of all Bloodthirters and his minions.

Tired, broken, and alone with the knowledge he is going to die, Sanguinius faced his brother and stood his ground. It was a much more personal, intimate, and emotional refusal of evil, fear, and temptation than any defiance of an outside and alien threat.

DarkMatter2
24-08-2008, 07:01
My vote went to the Ultramarine's defense of Macragge. You just can't get more heroic than that sort of "no hope of survival" battle.

ryng_sting
24-08-2008, 08:48
Yarrick has saved Armageddon twice, not three times, by the way.

Sanguinius all the way.

Deus
24-08-2008, 09:15
Yarrick has saved Armageddon twice, not three times, by the way.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Third_War_for_Armageddon

2nd paragraph of "The Feast of the Emperor's Ascension, take two"

Most heroic moment: When my scout squad rolled triple 6 to kill a necron monolith with a krak missile in 4th edn :P

But seriously, when Sangy defied Horus on his own ship, now that is tough.

Master Stark
24-08-2008, 09:22
All hail Ollanious Pious.

Rasmus81
24-08-2008, 12:31
I voted other, because my favriot is the rearguard action lead by Col. Wilder in His Last Command (one of the Gaunt's Ghost books). I got goose bumbs when reading it.

Rasmus

abasio
24-08-2008, 12:52
I gotta go with the Space Marines that realised their legions had gone to far, and choose to stand with the Emperor ratehr than their legions and Primarchs.

its true heroism to stand aganst all your brothers and the men is whos image you are made; your primarch! yet we know some astartes did; Loken, Garro, and so many more.

Really got to agree with this. The true heroism is standing up for what you believe is right even when all your peers are against you.

Sanguinius stood up for Horus but his main peer, The Emperor, also stood against Horus.

Imagine all your family, all your friends & colleagues fought on one side but you still had the heroism to go against them all for your ideas. That's true heroism.

Lord Damocles
24-08-2008, 15:42
Voted Sanguinius vs Horus.

Sanguinius fought even though he knew that he was going to die. Even when offered the chance to join Horus and save himself he stayed true to the Emperor.



Oh, and Yarrick only defended Armageddon twice. ;)

Slaaneshi Slave
24-08-2008, 15:54
I fail to see how some genetically engineered super human who has been bred to know he is the best of the best doing the right thing is at all heroic. Your average Joe Guardsman fixing bayonettes, climbing out of his trench and running at those Guants. That is the only true heroism of the 41st millenium.

Treadhead_1st
24-08-2008, 15:56
Hmm, yeah - the Elysian trooper in IA:Anphelion Project, where he charges a Gaunt in hand-to-hand with a Bayonette, kills it, and jumps on another. Assaulting Tyranids is one thing. Doing it again and again is another.

Slaaneshi Slave
24-08-2008, 16:09
I remember that guy, he gets slashed, he's bleeding to death, and he still charges another Guant.

Messiah
24-08-2008, 19:11
Yriel, overcoming his eldar pride to come to the rescue of those who cast him out.

heretics bane
24-08-2008, 19:26
I remember that guy, he gets slashed, he's bleeding to death, and he still charges another Guant.

This guy sounds a true hero!

Xisor
24-08-2008, 20:10
The Flight of the Eisenstein

I mean, how could it not be?

Also, Cadia wasn't attacked thirteen times. The 12th Black Crusade, for instance, was the Gothic Sector War. According to Liber Chaotica: Khorne the first black crusade wasn't at Cadia either, 'the fortress at Cadium' isn't constructed until the second black crusade.

Bloodknight
24-08-2008, 20:17
Ollanius Pius wins for me.

baphomael
24-08-2008, 20:21
Ollanius Pius wins for me.

Damn right. Got beat to it, I was gonna bring him up :D

All hail the patron saint of meatshields.

Lord Raneus
24-08-2008, 20:37
I'd say the Siege of Terra, because it is simultaneously the ultimate "light versus dark" scenario, and it's incredibly epic.

Sangunius would be second, especially since backup capable of saving him got there soon after.

Helsing
25-08-2008, 00:06
Sanguinas was said to have had visions of his death at the hands of Horus. But in the name of duty and honor he went anyway, in the name of humanity's freedom and the sacrifices he had made.

Helsing.

Lyinar
25-08-2008, 03:32
I'd have to say Captain Garro of the Death Guard and the flight of the Eisenstein... not only did he defy his own Primarch, but he stood his ground in front of Rogal Dorn after royally pissing him off with the news of Horus's betrayal.

imperial_scholar
25-08-2008, 04:11
Oh yea!? How did Loken and Garro not make the poll?!
Maybe it was just to easy of answer.
I chose the defense of the Imperial Palace. Just because it was Epic!

Did anyone ever see them do the recreation of the battle for the Imperial Palace... I saw it on portent back in the day... Holy COW!

Koryphaus
25-08-2008, 04:37
Also, Cadia wasn't attacked thirteen times. The 12th Black Crusade, for instance, was the Gothic Sector War. According to Liber Chaotica: Khorne the first black crusade wasn't at Cadia either, 'the fortress at Cadium' isn't constructed until the second black crusade.

True the 1st was stopped by Dorn

MasterDecoy
25-08-2008, 04:58
definatly the last stand of maccrag.
Seeing titans being pulled over by the sheer weight of bodys clinging onto it has got to test the nerve of even the bravest, and 'roided up superhumans.

To be fighting in the artic and have your guns glow "red hot" and jam becouse your firing so much would have to make even a space marine a little uneasy.

To walk through your fortress, finding the bodys of your enemys piled 5 and 6 high all the way through, and still have your finest soldiers die at their hands would definatly make the bravest soldiers courage waver.

I mean comon, to take on a threat like that, AND live to tell the tale, thats more than heroic, thats badass.

laudarkul
25-08-2008, 05:46
For sure the Cadia resistance.
Why?
'cause I play Guard, 'cause it is about the human not the uber alles SM, 'cause the bayonette just beat Chaos and beat and beat :cool:

Ubermensch Commander
25-08-2008, 17:01
meh, heroic. I would classify it more as epic for most of these.
But-for those that more or less fall intot he Heroic and Epic category=The Emperor's Great Crusade. Most heroic. He sought to save the Human Race.
Failing that, Khaine Vs Slaanesh. The gods had been devoured by this cosmic obscenity and still the bloody handed god marched to battle against it....particularly suprising given what a dick Khaine usually was.

EDIT* JUST noticed the "defending Cadia for 13 crusades" and i was struck by a dilema....does this show how heroic the defenders are or how PATHETIC Chaos is?=) Seriously though, holding back the hordes of madness is an impressive feat. The enitre POPULACE holds true to their duty. And yes, it wasnt hit by a 13 Black Crusades, but Cadia HAS held watch over the only stable route out of the Eye of Terror for millenia. That is pretty cool.
Siege of Terra....also cool.

Slaaneshi Slave
25-08-2008, 17:07
Khaine fought Slaanesh to a standstill, realised it was a battle neither of them would win, and so shattered himself into the shards we now see as Avatars. Not very often you see a God volunteer his life. :p

Lupercal!
25-08-2008, 17:09
I think a lot of people are overlooking Solar Macharius's contributions to the Imperium. It's said he went on the greatest crusade since the Emperor's times. Even when he was at the edge of the Astronomican's visibility at the end of the Milky Way he wanted to continue. To keep going into the darkness without any guiding light, that's heroic.

Slaaneshi Slave
25-08-2008, 17:19
He sat on his flag ship while the soldiers under him kept going. He was a hero, he was after glory. The guys who marched to hell and back for him are the heroes there.

bobbles
25-08-2008, 17:24
I fail to see how some genetically engineered super human who has been bred to know he is the best of the best doing the right thing is at all heroic. Your average Joe Guardsman fixing bayonettes, climbing out of his trench and running at those Guants. That is the only true heroism of the 41st millenium.


Thats the true stupidity of the 41st millenium ,not heroism.

It's the guardsman who climbs into the large, relitavely slow moving shed, which even it makes it down is just delivering him into a death trap whos the hero.

x-esiv-4c
25-08-2008, 17:37
One man. Ollanius Pious.

SonofUltramar
25-08-2008, 21:16
I voted for the Defence of Terra during the Horus Heresy as it seems to be a time of great deeds and heroes struggling to save the entire Galaxy from an eternity of damnation!

Also it was the time of Sigismund who went forth into the breach and faced the most powerful champions of Chaos and slay them in single combat, time and again.

omera
25-08-2008, 21:30
I really need to pick up the horus heresy books. /sigh

heretics bane
25-08-2008, 21:34
Im in total agreement with every guards man thats charged to their deaths,knowing it and nothing but a bayonet to see them through.

Screw marines and their fancy equipment, true men go down with their enemy knowing that a pointy stick is to be feared.

silence
26-08-2008, 23:25
The Iron Guards defense of Mordia. Full on chaos incursion and not a marine in sight and they kicked ass. That was heroic!

Voleron
26-08-2008, 23:45
Yarrick. Seriously, that man is too utterly Badass not to qualify. Anyone who considers passing out from a severed arm and blood loss as a "luxury" has more balls than most Space Marines. Plus, he's like, ninety when that happens? Yeah.

Yarrick is 40k's Chuck Norris.

Treadhead_1st
26-08-2008, 23:48
Old Man Yarrick is the best character in 40K, IMO.

Gaunt's a wee nipper, Marines are bio-engineered - he's an old man who beats on the Orks and, even when loosing his arm, keeps fighting - taking a trophy, no less - and then using the trophy to beat on MORE Orks.

Given that the majority of the later years of his life are heroic, I don't know if you can count him as "heroic moment" - there be lots of them where he's concerned.

Lt.Rasczak
27-08-2008, 03:01
For me it has to be the Battle of Istvaan III after the virus bombing. The marines of the World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, and Luna Wolves were betrayed by their brothers, set upon by Angron and Mortarion and faught on with amazing resolve for months to make the Traitor Legions pay for their betrayl. Saul Tarvitz especially for leading the men and making thier lives count when they knew they were as good as dead. At their bleakest moment the loyal marines refused to die and turned their last stand into one heroic fight. Thats why the battle of Istavaan III gets my vote.

LexxBomb
27-08-2008, 05:32
personaly for me it has to O'kais the fire warrior and his battle against chaos. he was a true hero. I wish GW would do something with him as they left him doing his trial of fire (which happened to be overcomming inanity and the loss of a leg and arm).

EmperorEternalXIX
27-08-2008, 06:34
For me it is a weird choice, but I give my vote to any man who is willing to become a space marine.

Any man who is willing to surrender his life, his family, his well-being...that is one thing. But when you become a space marine...you agree to have your body invaded and your organs rearranged, so that you can be hooked up to ancient armor and sent into the stars, into the jaws of the most horrifying things in the entire universe. Unlike the Guard, who are a defensive structure, the Space Marines are actively on the hunt. If you survive the battle, you will be sent to something even more horrible.

The Marines and the Guard both have this in common, of course. Some say the guard are more heroic, in that they will rush to their seeming doom and haven't got the stacked deck that a marine has. But I say any man who steps forward and says, "Destroy everything I ever was so that I can be a killing machine to protect my race" is fairly heroic.

It is pretty easy to be brave when you are a guardsmen and there are 70000 other lasgun-toting miscreants at your heels. Space Marines are meant to fight and win and each of them has made a sacrifice few can imagine in order to be able to withstand the immense pressure of what they need to be able to do.

My vote is for the space marines overall.

LexxBomb
27-08-2008, 22:52
Id have to disagree with your assumptions on guard being for defence and marines being actively attacking. Space Marines are not used to conquer worlds and expand the Imperium that is the job of the Imperial Guard. It is the Imperial Guard that continues the expansion of the Imperium and hence the Crusade... The Space Marines area the Imperiums defenders. They act more like an antibody attacking invading infections. Since the Horus Heresy no space marine chapter has conquered a planet.

Also Guard units Serve for 10 years (their relative time) constantly fighting and once thay have done this they can then conquer their own planet and settle down.

Inquisitor Redclaw
28-08-2008, 08:13
For me it would have to be the siege of terra.
The fact that the Sky itself turned black with drop pods and landing ships and knowing that no other help can reinforce youu. Also truely heroic for garro and the other loyal traitor legion marines knowing that you must kill your old brothers in arms and seeing your corrupted primarches in their dark glory.
What about the "crusader" chapters am sure they have conquered a planet. At least in the dark angels codex it states that they conquered a newly found human world that were led by a massive machine thing. Also in ghostmaker doesnt it state that the ghosts arrive after the space marines have effictivly conquered the planet and they are there for mopping up.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-08-2008, 08:59
For me it is a weird choice, but I give my vote to any man who is willing to become a space marine.

Any man who is willing to surrender his life, his family, his well-being...that is one thing. But when you become a space marine...you agree to have your body invaded and your organs rearranged, so that you can be hooked up to ancient armor and sent into the stars, into the jaws of the most horrifying things in the entire universe. Unlike the Guard, who are a defensive structure, the Space Marines are actively on the hunt. If you survive the battle, you will be sent to something even more horrible.

The Marines and the Guard both have this in common, of course. Some say the guard are more heroic, in that they will rush to their seeming doom and haven't got the stacked deck that a marine has. But I say any man who steps forward and says, "Destroy everything I ever was so that I can be a killing machine to protect my race" is fairly heroic.

It is pretty easy to be brave when you are a guardsmen and there are 70000 other lasgun-toting miscreants at your heels. Space Marines are meant to fight and win and each of them has made a sacrifice few can imagine in order to be able to withstand the immense pressure of what they need to be able to do.

My vote is for the space marines overall.

You don't haev a clue do you? If I was a main battle tank with legs, I'd walk into the jaws of hell too. As I am, I am just a guy with a flak vest, a rifle, a bottle of water, and 9 friends. And I still walk into the jaws of the abyss, kick it in the teeth, spit in it's eye, and come out the other side whistling.

Da Black Gobbo
28-08-2008, 09:49
One of the books of HH, when Traitor legions bomb with viric misiles the planet and minutes before Saul Tarviz scapes in a Thunderhawk and send a message to the Loyals so they can get cover.

Most emotive, in the same book when a Deathguard dreadnought and a veteran are about to die due to the virus, and they blow them selves while huging.

x-esiv-4c
28-08-2008, 11:15
"blow them selves while huging."

Lamest moment in the history of the deathguard.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-08-2008, 11:21
How does a dreadnought "hug"?

Lord Malorne
28-08-2008, 11:29
Very carefuly and crunchily ;).

Yarrick on armour'geddem 3 times?

fenrir31
28-08-2008, 11:37
I fail to see how some genetically engineered super human who has been bred to know he is the best of the best doing the right thing is at all heroic. Your average Joe Guardsman fixing bayonettes, climbing out of his trench and running at those Guants. That is the only true heroism of the 41st millenium.

The only reason that guardsmen climbed out of that trench was because a commisar with a bolt pistol just executed his buddy standing next to him for refusing.....

Super Ninja
28-08-2008, 15:39
Good God, the Marine hate...

I'd like to see one of you guys, at a young age with your whole life ahead of you, willingly volunteer to be taken away from your family, friends and home forever to be sliced open, probably die and have extra gibblies sewn into you. Then after that I want you to be super trained all day every day for ten years, probably die again, to become a seven foot tall acid-spiting bone breaking mega soldier. Then I want you to go out with all your marine buddies who also somehow survived what you just went trough, and die. Just die. Die fighting some of the most pants-pissingly scariest monsters, hugest sanity-smashing bug swarms and the most mind-bendingly over-jacked extra-dimesnional super death guys ever ever for a whole lifetime in order to safeguard the lives of trillions of people across the galaxy, most of whom you have never met. AND, I want you to agree to have it done to you. Do it.

Look I'm not saying that the stunts that these Guardsmen pull arent heroic, and they are... realy! But there are lots of diferent kinds of heroism in this life.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-08-2008, 15:56
I and most of my friends volunteered to be seperated from out friends and families. We volunteered to subject to some of the harshest training known to man, and then go and face down against the scariest drug fueled, indoctrinated, righteous monsters known to man with no protection other than a set of body armour and an autogun, and a few friends in our fireteams.

Marines have nothing on soldiers, 40k or otherwise.

heretics bane
28-08-2008, 16:13
The only reason that guardsmen climbed out of that trench was because a commisar with a bolt pistol just executed his buddy standing next to him for refusing.....

Not all guards men have a commissar to shoot them, they are there to inspire troops and shoot deserters not start shooting people when he himself could be terrified to step out.

Super Ninja
28-08-2008, 16:26
I and most of my friends volunteered to be seperated from out friends and families. We volunteered to subject to some of the harshest training known to man, and then go and face down against the scariest drug fueled, indoctrinated, righteous monsters known to man with no protection other than a set of body armour and an autogun, and a few friends in our fireteams.

Marines have nothing on soldiers, 40k or otherwise.

Well thats absolutely fantastic, but you didnt die. Not to get too serous about this but when a kid become a Space Marine, he cant go back to his normal life. When he makes that descision to go Marine, he is locked into it forever. He will die horribly, not just fighting drugged up terrorists, but Demons, Aliens, and prehistoric metal monsters that get back up after you've blown them to bits. You came back, and thats great, but they dont come back. Does'nt that count for something?

LexxBomb
28-08-2008, 17:35
Well thats absolutely fantastic, but you didnt die. Not to get too serous about this but when a kid become a Space Marine, he cant go back to his normal life. When he makes that descision to go Marine, he is locked into it forever. He will die horribly, not just fighting drugged up terrorists, but Demons, Aliens, and prehistoric metal monsters that get back up after you've blown them to bits. You came back, and thats great, but they dont come back. Does'nt that count for something?

Go read the short story about the deathwing tyerminators rescuing their home world from genestealers. it is implied in it that space marines can bread with normal humans. so in theory they can live normal lives if they were allowed to.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-08-2008, 17:46
Well thats absolutely fantastic, but you didnt die. Not to get too serous about this but when a kid become a Space Marine, he cant go back to his normal life. When he makes that descision to go Marine, he is locked into it forever. He will die horribly, not just fighting drugged up terrorists, but Demons, Aliens, and prehistoric metal monsters that get back up after you've blown them to bits. You came back, and thats great, but they dont come back. Does'nt that count for something?

99.99% of the Guard do not go home. Space Marines generally aren't recruited, so much as conscripted. "We want your 10 best warriors. No, no is not an acceptable answer. We will take your warriors now." Just the same as Guardsmen are.

dookie
28-08-2008, 18:17
peh! Who is really going to choose Yriels sacrifice?

Oh!! the same amount of people who chose Thor backhanding Vandire!???

My Emperor! Thor all the way!!

djinn8
28-08-2008, 18:24
For me its Ignance Karkasy's attempt to reveal the ugly truth about the Sons of Horus, whilst still living aboard Horus's flagship. Imagine being a man (and a pretty weak man at that) living amoungst a thousand sociopathic superhumans with superiority complexes and killer instincs and telling it them they're out of line.

And yeah he didn't exactly die with dignaty, but you're gona leave a steaming puddle on the floor when those guys come to silence you.

Ubermensch Commander
28-08-2008, 18:29
Guardsmen...brave? Try "indoctrinated". I mean, yes, that is how ALL militaries work, but taken to the Nth degree with Guardsmen.
Just because the average guardsmen is pathetic compared to some of the things he fights, this makes him brave? Because that seems to be the focus of most of this "Ooo-rah Guardsmen" posts.
What about Gretchin out on the battlefield? He is underpar even against a Guardsmen! But he is still out there!
If guardsmen are brave just for dying on the battlefield, what about guardians?
Eldar, a dying race with incredibly long lifespans that extend past a humans and experiencing greater pleasures than a human, with the potential for having your soul eaten by a cosmic obscenity after death...and still they fight to protect their race.
And the Guardians(any Eldar really barring Exarchs and Harlequins) dont have COMMISSARS and HEAVY BOLTERS at their backs to make sure they fight.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-08-2008, 19:02
Guardsmen indocrinated? Bwahahaha. Compared to Marines Guardsmen are free men. A marine undergoes hypnosis, psychic indocrination, and mind scrubs to ensure his loyalty.

heretics bane
28-08-2008, 19:12
SS is right, guards men are as faithful as they are brought up marines are basicly strict warrior monks and live that life.

You dont hear alot of marines drinking etc.

Ubermensch Commander
28-08-2008, 19:18
@ Bane and Slave
Simply because a Marine is indoctrinate to a GREATER degree does NOT mean a Guardsmen is not indoctrinated.

heretics bane
28-08-2008, 19:19
But he isnt! there brought up with the imperial creed while marines have it drilled into them. big,big difference.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-08-2008, 19:22
Everybody in the Imperium is indocrinated, in a similar way that you and I are indocrinated, but to a much greater degree. For Marines it is a physical thing though. For a Marine to do his own thing is for him to die. He cannot survive without the apothicarium and it's life giving drugs. This ensures his loyalty and that he is willing to do insane acts. A Guardsmen does it for his friends. And his next meal. And for his family.

Ubermensch Commander
28-08-2008, 19:23
But he isnt! there brought up with the imperial creed while marines have it drilled into them. big,big difference.

Ok, seriously, you JUST proved my point. From birth, many guardsmen, particulalry Cadians, are told that they must serve the Emperor, they own their LIFE to the the Emperor "Your lives are the Emperor's currency, spend them well."
Being raised in the Imperial Creed from birth and then having it drilled into them WHILE IN THE IMPERIAL GUARD is indoctrination. There is no two ways around it. Commissars are examples of strict adherents to the Imperial Creed and it's enforcers and I believe they are picked out of the common masses.

Ubermensch Commander
28-08-2008, 19:34
Everybody in the Imperium is indocrinated, in a similar way that you and I are indocrinated, but to a much greater degree. For Marines it is a physical thing though. For a Marine to do his own thing is for him to die. He cannot survive without the apothicarium and it's life giving drugs. This ensures his loyalty and that he is willing to do insane acts. A Guardsmen does it for his friends. And his next meal. And for his family.

Actually, a Marine can survive just fine on his own and sacrificed his very humanity for the greater good of the Imperium. The Adeptus Astartes give the greatest sacrifice they can in the name of the Emperor. Are they indoctrinated? Oh hell yes. EVERYTHING in the Imperium is indoctrinated. ANY government and military uses indoctrination. That is how they get meat and gristle for the war machine. But if we are going to call a Guardsmen brave, even accepting indoctrination, HOW does it make him braver than an Astartes? Simply because he isn't as awesome?

As for bravery and fighting for friends and family, Guardsmen are conscripted in many instances and fights so that he does not get hanged/shot by his superior officer.
Again, just because an Astartes is superior to a Guardsmen, doesn't make him less brave. Especially if we look at the Savlar Chem Dogs and others of their ilk. Why do they fight? Because it is better than the Hellish worlds they came from. Because they do not want to be SHOT by their own insitution. Where does their courage come from? Hitting those Chem Inhaler's baby, yea!
A Guardsmen inherent chumpness does not equate to bravery. It just makes them human.

Frankly i think any Eldar is braver since the crazed indoctrination of the Imperial Creed is absent and the consequences of death are more dire.

heretics bane
28-08-2008, 19:40
Marines can not live on their own unless they have access to all the drugs they die as their bodies reject the organs:eyebrows:

It all depends on the world aswell, some worlds see the emporer as a god who lives on terra while on another world hes the god of seasons, meaning that just because your in the imperium dosnt mean you share the same idiologies or traditions of the Emporer. And marines are intensly indocterinated so saying thats the same reason as gaurdys charge to thier death if pretty wrong.

And some imperial worlds are beautiful pretty much blows your point of them doing it to escape their terrible worlds right out of the water, the sevlar chem dogs are from a prison planet so that dosnt mean every gaurdy is and imperial indocterantion is hardly "crazy".

spacecorsair
28-08-2008, 20:01
I think perhaps the poor Eldar "Young Prince" who steps into the Avatar's chamber to be char-broiled and have his soul gobbled up. That's a pretty heoric thing to do for your species.

Yarick however is no nameless lamb, I've got to wonder what "really" happened on Armageddon ;) as the books a written from an "Imperial Slant" ;)

LexxBomb
28-08-2008, 20:10
Guardsmen indocrinated? Bwahahaha. Compared to Marines Guardsmen are free men. A marine undergoes hypnosis, psychic indocrination, and mind scrubs to ensure his loyalty.

and speaking of mind scrubbing if we used the older Fluff (in my opinion better fluff) any guardsmen who had fought against chaos and in particulr deamons would be killed. Mind scrubbing is only for the Adeptus Astrates. So one could say that even Guants Ghosts would have been executed a long time ago fluff wise.

As for those going on about marines constantly neding meds from the Apothecaries... you are worng. reasons
1. Chaos forces have no apothecaries - and they have been fighting for 10,000 years
2. we have clear evidence of marines operating without chapter support for extended periods of time - including upto decades... Lets see now Blood Quest... Deathwing...Raven Gaurds Shrike...The 13 Company of Space Wolves... Uriel Ventris and The Fallen Dark Angels (including Cypher).

as long as a marine doesnt take massive damage his body will produce all the chems he needs in conjuncton with his armour. A marine will not suffer from organ rejection because his DNA is restructured to be compatible with ther new organs... hell they dont even reject mechanical implants.

Templar_Victorious
28-08-2008, 21:18
Siege of Terra, Sigismund going in single combat against 24 Chaos Champions and the like, including Khârn, later with the name The Betrayer. And surviving them all to start the sofar longest crusade in the age of the Imperium.

Phoenix King
28-08-2008, 23:37
I voted for Marneus Calgar's last stand, since fighting to the last man seems like the very definition of heroic to me. But I guess there are many smaller battles in the 40.000 universe that took more courage than this one...

heretics bane
29-08-2008, 15:28
and speaking of mind scrubbing if we used the older Fluff (in my opinion better fluff) any guardsmen who had fought against chaos and in particulr deamons would be killed. Mind scrubbing is only for the Adeptus Astrates. So one could say that even Guants Ghosts would have been executed a long time ago fluff wise.

As for those going on about marines constantly neding meds from the Apothecaries... you are worng. reasons
1. Chaos forces have no apothecaries - and they have been fighting for 10,000 years
2. we have clear evidence of marines operating without chapter support for extended periods of time - including upto decades... Lets see now Blood Quest... Deathwing...Raven Gaurds Shrike...The 13 Company of Space Wolves... Uriel Ventris and The Fallen Dark Angels (including Cypher).

as long as a marine doesnt take massive damage his body will produce all the chems he needs in conjuncton with his armour. A marine will not suffer from organ rejection because his DNA is restructured to be compatible with ther new organs... hell they dont even reject mechanical implants.

Fluff contridiction then, so nobodys wrong or right. a marine does need various meds to surviveit says that on the GW website fluff itself. maybe the suits can give a very "basic" level of care for the marines for a time.

british nut
29-08-2008, 21:17
for me it will always be the story of the 5 dark angels Terminators who cleared a whole hive of genestealers before being wiped out to the last man, this is why dark angels Terminators have white Armour. it was that story that got me into 40k in the first place and it ill always seem the most heroic in my eyes

StarshipBOb
30-08-2008, 00:50
I'm going to say when the Domina Astra kamakazied Hive Fleet Behemoth and sent them straight to the Warp.

EmperorEternalXIX
30-08-2008, 03:55
I still think the marines are by far the bravest.

For what it's worth, if you read the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, it flat-out LIES about the offensive capabilities of the Imperium's enemies. It says that a Tau railgun is no more powerful than a lasgun and that "fear not; your armor will protect you!"

Half the time guard seem ignorant to the facts of their opponents, especially warp-based creatures. They also tend to be very indoctrinated to fighting specific types of enemy fairly consistently. Commissar Yarrick slew an Ork warboss in a feat of superhuman determination, yes...but did he then immediately ship out to fight a bloodthirster, then a lord of chaos, then a horde of dark eldar raiders with torn open human slaves dangling from their ships, then a tyranid invasion?

The guard are heroic in that they are mortal men fighting and surviving through sheer determination (and numbers, ahem). But the Space Marines are a different animal entirely. They sacrifice their bodies and their minds so that they can be sent out into the galaxy a handful at a time to fight things that an army of millions of men with tanks, artillery, and orbital support couldn't quite handle.

You don't hear too many stories about the Imperial Guard besting the Tyranids, for example...

Not to take anything away from Commissar Yarrick and his men, but the orks seem like they would be the easiest foe to stop in all of 40k outside of their numbers. They are basically half-retarded animals who run blinding into your gunfire with no armor and mostly weapons made out of old junk, with all the grace and precision of a bent sledgehammer. I think almost any other foe in 40k outside of maybe the Tau would terrify and obliterate even the best guard regiments...

Schismotive
30-08-2008, 04:29
In my opinion, there are MANY heroic points in space marine histroy, and space marines only for the most part, save a few. But the imperium itself is loaded with epic and heroic moments that make your hair stand up. I think any of the acts of the primarchs during the heresy was venerable. Especially the emperors meeting horus on his own ship. Amazing.
I couldn't decide for this poll. I also thought Calgar's defense of Macragge was also amazing, against the Tyranids. Any of the famous characters have epic moments, like chaplain Grimaldus's (a favorite of mine) fighting on Armageddon.

Anyway,the Imperium (namingly the space marines) has too many epic moments to put down all on one list.

Mojaco
30-08-2008, 07:49
Yriel. He and sangiunus knew they condemned themselves, with the difference being that Sangiunus was already a hero, respected and valued and with only betrayal as the other option. Yriel however was regarded an outcast. He could've stayed away and live his life the way he always had. Despite that, he still doomed himself for the greater good of Eldar that previously didn't even like him. Seems pretty heroic to me.

Mojaco
30-08-2008, 07:51
I still think the marines are by far the bravest.

For what it's worth, if you read the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, it flat-out LIES about the offensive capabilities of the Imperium's enemies. It says that a Tau railgun is no more powerful than a lasgun and that "fear not; your armor will protect you!"

Half the time guard seem ignorant to the facts of their opponents, especially warp-based creatures. They also tend to be very indoctrinated to fighting specific types of enemy fairly consistently. Commissar Yarrick slew an Ork warboss in a feat of superhuman determination, yes...but did he then immediately ship out to fight a bloodthirster, then a lord of chaos, then a horde of dark eldar raiders with torn open human slaves dangling from their ships, then a tyranid invasion?

The guard are heroic in that they are mortal men fighting and surviving through sheer determination (and numbers, ahem). But the Space Marines are a different animal entirely. They sacrifice their bodies and their minds so that they can be sent out into the galaxy a handful at a time to fight things that an army of millions of men with tanks, artillery, and orbital support couldn't quite handle.

You don't hear too many stories about the Imperial Guard besting the Tyranids, for example...

Not to take anything away from Commissar Yarrick and his men, but the orks seem like they would be the easiest foe to stop in all of 40k outside of their numbers. They are basically half-retarded animals who run blinding into your gunfire with no armor and mostly weapons made out of old junk, with all the grace and precision of a bent sledgehammer. I think almost any other foe in 40k outside of maybe the Tau would terrify and obliterate even the best guard regiments...
Ever heard of Cadia? There's no orks nor Tau anywhere near. This guys fight Chaos nearly 24/7.

Sceleris82
30-08-2008, 08:32
I don't get it when people say marines are less hero likes than guardsmen. Sure guard doesnt have all the fancy stuff space marines does, but the missions space marines goes on are 1000 times more dangerous/nervewracking so it totally evens up.

And Sanginus not being a hero cause he was bred to be a hero ? **** as far as i know all the Primarchs was WAY to human, im pretty sure all the traitor Primarchs was created to be loyal to, but no the chaos gods managed to make them all way to human.
Sanginius holding the eternity gate, fighting on for days, killing the most badass stuff evil could throw at him, then sacrificing himself for his father and humanity.

My vote is for him.

heretics bane
30-08-2008, 10:53
All the primachs where great physical beings but when it boiled down to it they where not incurroptable somthing the emperor didnt see.

And thats his job basicly, but how many BA and IF died at the SOT? thousands yet no one has mentioned them, with out them sanguaues would have been useless.

PARTYCHICORITA
30-08-2008, 14:50
I voted for Yriel's sacrifice, sacrificing your life and your soul to save your people is pretty heroic to me.

Adra
30-08-2008, 15:16
Marines are made to not fear anything. Really isnt as impressive as a mortal man standing up to horror.

Nerak
30-08-2008, 21:43
Hm.... This is hard, but I think I'll have to go with the defence of terra. However, I'm not talking about the marines but of the guardsmen there. Thing is that when Horus showed up he hade already "turned" half of the imperial guard garrision stationed at teh spaceport. Once he invaded the soldiers threw of all bands of loyality and attacked there brothers-in-arms. The still loyal guardsmen where trapped between the traitors and the now incoming rebel marines. Instead of surrendering or even making some sort of counter attack they decided to keep the defence laser silos alive for as long as possible. They where all wiped out but the fact that the silos hade been kept working for as long would in the end have a crucial effect on the outcome of the battle, as the reinforcments that Horus so heavily relied upon hade sustained far heavier losses than he hade expected them to.
Now that's heroic.

Otherwise, why isn't the incredible glorious and fearless Commissar Cain anywhere....?

Chairman_woo
30-08-2008, 22:21
As the ultimate Heroic charachter i'd have to go with Sanguinius, the , charachter, sacrifices and achivements seem almost unparaleled to me. arguably he was the "best" of the loyal primarchs (i'f I was forced to choose as he has some pretty stiff competition from his brothers").

However the most heroic achivement for me was the combined actions of the imperial/ultramarine fleet and the ultramarine 1st company, both of which made huge sacrifices to win what for my money was possibly the closest and bloodyest battle in 40k history (relativeley speaking). Yes the seige of the emperors pallace or even the 3rd armageddon war was bigger in terms of forc3es deployed (tho i'm far from certain, it was an entire hive fleet let us not forget) but on macragge there was no way out for either side. Either they killed every single enemy ort they were all killed.

I can only speak with gut feeling tho obviousley, its impossible to quantify heroism, and the like, but for me they are the two most "heroic" acts in 40k history.

Chairman_woo
30-08-2008, 22:28
Actually now I've had a think, if I was going to pick one event and one event only it'd be the mass suicide of the shaman to create/give birth to the emperor himself. 100's of 1000's of them all makeing the ultimate sacrifice in the hope that thair species might one day escape the clutches of the endlessley toiling warp and its various dark intelegences.

(This was as the fluff used to be, so forgiveme if GW has changed any of the creation myth's recently. (i know they are bastards for that *cough* *cough* starchild *cough* illuminati etc.)

Starchild
31-08-2008, 05:12
My vote goes to the Eldar campaign on the Exodite planet Haran, when they got invaded by a gigantic army of Daemons and Chaos Space Marines. The Daemons were trying force their way in, so they could use the webway portals on Haran to attack the Craftworlds.

Eldar from all over the galaxy gathered for the fight, and though the cost in Eldar life was terrible, the Chaotic host was driven back. [Codex Eldar 1994]

A close second would be the defense of Lugganath by the Fir Iolarion (Eagles Born of Fire) titan clan. Daemons found access to Lugganath through a webway portal. The titans of Fir Iolarion counter-attacked, but suffered great losses, being reduced to the weakest of the Eldar titan clans.

However, over time, the Fir Iolarion not only regained their former numbers and strength, but exceeded it tenfold. The leaders of clan realized that the daemonic assault had been a baptism of fire. [Codex Titanicus 1989]

Koryphaus
31-08-2008, 05:56
Colonel Schaeffer. 'Nuff said.

EmperorEternalXIX
31-08-2008, 08:10
You know, Malcador sitting on the throne even though it was certain to kill him in the process was also fairly brave.

Corporal Chaos
31-08-2008, 20:14
In my book it is when a lone guardsman with a melta gun chased an Eldar wraithlord for 2 turns on an obscure battlefield written nowhere in history only in my memory. The Eldar won that contest but that was heroic.

Slaaneshi Slave
31-08-2008, 20:20
If two men do the exact same thing, such as charge a Genestealer, and yet one is a simple man who was on his farm two months earlier who is fighting for his land and family but really knows he stands no chance of killing the thing, and the other is a walking tank who actually stands a chance of taking it down, who is more heroic?

Darkstar2586
01-09-2008, 11:05
Is the genestealer attacking the guys farm? hes got more incentive to protect his family ;)

Na i think both can be very heroic, and yes i can see the reasons why your saying this about space marines being immune to fear, and death means little due to the gene seed, but they do have feelings to battle with, in HH when a sm turned against his fellow marines, and they refused to shoot him cause it hadn't ever happened before, even holding the pistol at him he couldn't pull the trigger.

In the end, arnt most heros those who have over come fear and thus dont fear anymore, allowing heroic acts to be done? its not the over coming of fear which is heroic but the actions of the individual??

Ive voted for the defence of the ultramarines, being a excellent last stand, especially the terminators dying in a ring around each other, the last to fall, back to back, but think one of the most heroic acts ive heard is the dock workers welding themselves into their own dock cranes at armageddon as their hive was falling to try and take out giant ork structures. They knew there was no escape, they had sealed them selves in and waited in a immobile structure for vehicles that had taken out titan legions!

Sceleris82
01-09-2008, 21:01
If two men do the exact same thing, such as charge a Genestealer, and yet one is a simple man who was on his farm two months earlier who is fighting for his land and family but really knows he stands no chance of killing the thing, and the other is a walking tank who actually stands a chance of taking it down, who is more heroic?

Yeah, but the fact is that where the normal guardsman is supposed to maybe fight 1 genestealer.

A marine is fighting 10.

Yes marines are tougher, but the stuff they fight is 10 times tougher than what the guardsmen fight.

And marines do feel fear, sure they are well trained, but hell the marines who went into horuses battlebarge felt alot of fear, hell they basicly turned insane.
We also have stories where marines encounters deamons, and show signs of dread.

Sure they donn't run away, but thats because they are disciplined, they do feel as much fear as the rest, they can just control it.

Grindgodgrind
02-09-2008, 00:32
I go with other, and my answer is for the defenders of Hades Hive during the second Armageddon war. Not just Yarrick, who is a badass, but the guys who had lost their families and went, for instance, naked into the air filtration systems to hunt down Stormboyz.

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 05:31
In the end, arnt most heros those who have over come fear and thus dont fear anymore, allowing heroic acts to be done? its not the over coming of fear which is heroic but the actions of the individual??

No, heroism is when you are crapping yourself but still do it.

Sceleris82
02-09-2008, 06:57
Eh no its not, not even a true guardsmen crap his pants, he is *********** scared, but still his disipline make him stay put and do his job.

Who is more heroic the dude who get insanly scared and craps his pants.
Or the dude who gets insanly scared, but still does his part and controls that fear.

Darkstar2586
02-09-2008, 11:22
Exactly, think of a modern day equivalence, say a child is about to get ran over by a bus, in a fraction of a second you either fear its too risky and watch the child go smoosh or you quell it and dive out there and roll you both to safety.

Its like saying the over exaggerated last stand of the 300 Spartans wasn't heroic because they lived for war... they still bought time for others

Lord Merlin
02-09-2008, 11:50
It doesn't matter who's more heroic.


Also the marines do not, let me repeat that DO NOT go around go around saying. 'Hey little boy come with us and we'll put you through the most painful thing short of a dark eldar charnel pit and then make you into one of the many mindless tanks with guns that we are so you can repeatedly march into death and then again and then again.' I don't think aspirants would be too keen on that then.

While the guard recruting posters are evenly mixed between. 'Serve the Emperor' and 'Woo hot chicks dig the guard, join today.'

And the fact that the Cadians, Mordians, Kreigans or elysians are even being brought into this equation is ridiculous. The cadians are simply one of the best drilled, most motivated regiments in the guard. But they can't be everywhere, which is why they chill of Cadia. Your 'average' guardsman is a habworker, farmer, or truck driver given nine weeks of basic and then told to go find and kill the enemy, most of which are a lot bigger than you.

So the marines lie to their aspirants, the guard lies to their recruits, but honestly being a space marine has more to do with luck than anything, first you have to do some whacky task and then if you 'match the geneseed the crack you open and shove things while chanting and hope you won't die. And the guard CandC just blows.


So to sum it up GUARD, GUARD, GUARD, GUARD, GUARD, GUARD, GUARD, GUARD, GO GUARD, GO GUARD, GO GUUUAAARD!!!

abasio
02-09-2008, 11:52
But a last stand of 300 farmers would have been far more heroic in my opinion because they would have had less experience of war & probably more fear to overcome.

bobbles
02-09-2008, 12:18
But a last stand of 300 farmers would have been far more heroic in my opinion because they would have had less experience of war & probably more fear to overcome.



Wasteful does'nt mean heroic

Dragonlv8
02-09-2008, 12:23
My Dire Avenger Exarch having his squad shot down by bolter fire, shrugging of more than 10 armour saves before fighting with a chaplin and winning*

*In the game he didn't win against the Chaplin in fact he kind of got owned but I mean cmon, he survived more than 10 armour saves in one turn :p

Sceleris82
02-09-2008, 17:38
300 farmers wouldnt be heroic, it would a a slaughter/suicide aka stupid.

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 18:47
Not a great deal of difference between stupid and heroic. Only difference is Stupid is when you die, Heroic is when you live. It's not heroic if you are more than 50% sure that you'll live. It's doing your job.

heretics bane
02-09-2008, 19:07
300 farmers wouldnt be heroic, it would a a slaughter/suicide aka stupid.

Yes that would. But 300 farmers with weapons defending a crucial junction buying time for there familes and friends time to escape is heroic.

Knowing that your going to die is pretty heroic but willingly sacrificing oneself for his comrades is the greatest heroism ever.

Whats the bible quote "He who sacrifices himself for his fellow man etc" I cant remember it

Sceleris82
02-09-2008, 20:51
Not a great deal of difference between stupid and heroic. Only difference is Stupid is when you die, Heroic is when you live. It's not heroic if you are more than 50% sure that you'll live. It's doing your job.


The 300 died, hell normal soilders in Irak dies, are they stupid ? No ofcourse not, they are heroic.

They would be stupid if the soilders in Irak went to fight with rocks.


And do you honestly belive 50% is good odds ?

Honestly S-Slave i usually really enjoy your post, but this just smells like marine hatred.

Edit: Reply to heretic above. If thoose brave farmers went against a force of 1000000 trained soldiers, and without themself having any training whatsoever. Then yes it would be stupid, since it would be utterly suicide without gaining anything.
This is why we dont ship civilians into warzones, because that would be stupid not heroic.

Yes a lone farmer defending his house against a few bandits would be heroic and not so heroic if it was a soilder.
But soldiers are put into situations the farmer well never ever see.
And the marine will be deployed in sutations that neither the farmer or the soldier will ever see.

So saying that Sang doing what he did at the assault of terra is no big deal is nonsense, yes he was created to deal with crazy things, but that stuff on terra that happend there is way beyond what he is expected to do.

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 20:59
A soldier never knows if he will die.

McPherson
02-09-2008, 21:42
Honestly I was torn between the defense of Terra and Sanginius.

Both are irrevocably tied together in my mind as the ultimate display of heroism and sacrifice.

Horribly outnumbered, with no chance of victory in sight - their backs against the wall the loyalists fought on taking tremendous odds, their faith in the Emperor and his ability to save mankind not faltering. Sanguinius leading the defenses from the walls of the palace, rallying his Blood Angels to continue to struggle deep down knowing that it was in vain - fighting off the mightiest of Bloodthirsters and slamming the golden gate shut as the final act of defiance against Horus's great warhost. Battered and bloody teleporting with the Emperor up to the warlords battlebarge knowing it would mean his death.

Despite all that he went - despite all that he spat defiantly in the face of chaos and gave his life to the Imperium, to all of mankind to give them a chance of survival. Suffering a death so horrible that 10'000 years later his Angels continue to feel the pain of his death.

That is heorics, some might want to slight the level of sacrifice the defenders of the palace put themselves through - some may want to turn around and say "They were marines, they were bred for it." None of that matters, their opponents were marines, bred to be loyal to the Emperor - but they fell, marines are only physically superhuman, if the Horus Heresy novels have told us anything is that they were still human beings with drives, fears and emotions, flawed supersoldiers that have given their all to an ideal.

And honestly, I am biased being a die hard Blood Angels player for the past 10+ years but their story to this day is still touching. They are scorned, hated and not trusted by the Imperium, the very organisation they continue to serve loyally, not asking for any rewards. Many armies refuse to fight along side 'those blood crazy madmen' and every day they themselves have to fight with their 'inner demons' to ensure they dont fall to the Black Rage / Red Thirst.

They were the hardest hit defending Terra.

They were the ones manning the walls and dying for the continuation of your Imperium.

They are the ones that even today suffer from the effects of the Heresy.

They are the ones who fight for men and women who scorn them and plot their demise.

They are the Blood Angels.

FOR SANGINIUS AND THE EMPEROR!!!

- McPherson

PS. The other two chapters defending Terra are also badass, but thats another story...

Sceleris82
03-09-2008, 05:45
A soldier never knows if he will die.

Ofcourse soldiers can come in situations where he knows he will die. But to be honest it seems to me like your grasping for straws at the moment.
Oh and if you want situations where that has occured, then there is plenty of situations in world war 2, the vietnam war and etc.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 05:51
I think you have no idea what you're talking about, honestly.

Darkstar2586
03-09-2008, 07:55
heroism - the qualities of a hero or heroine; exceptional or heroic courage when facing danger
courage- the ability to face danger or pain without fear

Granted its from the free dictionary.com but its along the same lines as i dont have a dictionary to hand it will have to do...

Thus it shows that space marines can be classed as heroic and sceleris82 is right, there are many times where a soldier knows he will die and still goes out anyway... battle of the Somme....battle of Balaclava....the d-day landings when they could see troops on the beach being killed in droves and they still didnt turn the boats around... come on theres so many examples. Except i wouldn't agree about Vietnam so much...was more fear of when you might die then knowing you would

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 08:19
Everytime a soldier on ops picks up his rifle and leaves the camp he knows he may die. More than that, any time of the day, anywhere he is there is a risk he will die by enemy action. If you think a guy who assaults an enemy bunker to give his friends a chance of bugging out is unafraid, you need a reality check. If you're not scared, there is something wrong with your head. Fear keeps you going, it makes you work harder, it makes your run faster, it makes do things you never could. If you're not afraid, I don't want you in my section.

Heroism has nothing to do with being unafraid, is has to do with overcoming that fear, mastering it and using it as a weapon.

Master Stark
03-09-2008, 09:00
Heroism has nothing to do with being unafraid, is has to do with overcoming that fear, mastering it and using it as a weapon.

Thats one definition of heroism.

I believe heroism can also be as simple as thinking the danger at hand is just a 6 on a ten scale, when everyone else thinks it's an 11.

It's not just about overcoming your fears. It is also about being (sensibly) un-afraid in the first place.

Poseidal
03-09-2008, 09:17
How about Khaine?

There's one thing fighting for a people who you love and want to protect.

It's another to fight for a people who don't really like you and you've had troubles with in the past and were your enemies at one point, and were the ones predicted to cause your demise.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 09:21
Thats one definition of heroism.

I believe heroism can also be as simple as thinking the danger at hand is just a 6 on a ten scale, when everyone else thinks it's an 11.

It's not just about overcoming your fears. It is also about being (sensibly) un-afraid in the first place.

That's not being heroic, that's being unaware of your surroundings.

Until you have ever been in a position to do anything heroic yourself, I don't think you will be able to say what heroic is.

Master Stark
03-09-2008, 09:23
That's not being heroic, that's being unaware of your surroundings.

How so?


Until you have ever been in a position to do anything heroic yourself, I don't think you will be able to say what heroic is.

:eyebrows:

Thats ridiculous.

Koryphaus
03-09-2008, 10:20
Until you have ever been in a position to do anything heroic yourself, I don't think you will be able to say what heroic is.

Have you ever seen a Surf Lifesaver? Tell me they aren't heroic. Have you ever seen an emergency services volunteer? Tell me they aren't Heroic. I am neither Surf Lifesaver, nor emergency service volunteer, and I can tell you that they are both Heroes.

I can tell you right now that firefighters, paramedics, police etc etc are all heroes. I am none of those 3.

So come on Slaaneshi Slave, really.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 10:28
The only heroes are those who voluntarily put their lives in mortal danger, with a high risk of buying the farm. Serve in the police for 22 years, you will get out with a fair pension probably never having fired your weapon. In the fire brigade you may very well die, so I grant you that one. 22 years of front line service though, you very probably will die. This is why today we only serve 6 months out of every 2 years (unless we volunteer for more). A paramedic, by default, is not a hero. A paramedic who drags a body from as railway line under effective enemy fire, is a hero. A policeman is not by default a hero. A policeman who takes a bullet to save somebody else is a hero.

Master Stark
03-09-2008, 10:31
A paramedic, by default, is not a hero. A paramedic who drags a body from as railway line under effective enemy fire, is a hero. A policeman is not by default a hero. A policeman who takes a bullet to save somebody else is a hero.

Thats a very artificially restrictive definition.

Rockerfella
03-09-2008, 10:38
Interesting, that a survey here in one of the UK's more salubrius papers, listed the top 50 most dangerous jobs, or jobs you're most likely to lose your life in. Dustbin men, fishermen, and Police men all came substantially above fire fighters, and are all statistically more likely to die in duty than a fire fighter is, in this country.

I think it was in relation to the firemans strike here a few years ago, when they were complaining about their colossal starting wage and two weeks on, two weeks off rota.

Just thought i'd chuck that one in there, see what people made of the 'hero' status now.

Master Stark
03-09-2008, 10:45
Interesting, that a survey here in one of the UK's more salubrius papers, listed the top 50 most dangerous jobs, or jobs you're most likely to lose your life in. Dustbin men, fishermen, and Police men all came substantially above fire fighters, and are all statistically more likely to die in duty than a fire fighter is, in this country.

Why did god create cops?

Because even firemen need heroes!

:angel:

Darkstar2586
03-09-2008, 11:00
Who are the policeman's heroes then? heheh

think we can all agree that there are many broad terms for a hero, and can see where Slaaneshi Slave is coming from, however its more focused on military heroism, but in relation to the topic, & to stop this from getting out of hand....

stop the arguments and get back to posting about the most heroic moment in 40k please?

:cool:

that is all

Canis
03-09-2008, 11:06
I think Alpharius and Omegon's decision at the end of Legion was a heart breaking choice and a heroic decision. Not quite as dramatic as the Sanguinius vs Bloodthirster battle at the eternity gate though, that's probably my favourite heroic combat moment.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 11:55
Interesting, that a survey here in one of the UK's more salubrius papers, listed the top 50 most dangerous jobs, or jobs you're most likely to lose your life in. Dustbin men, fishermen, and Police men all came substantially above fire fighters, and are all statistically more likely to die in duty than a fire fighter is, in this country.

I think it was in relation to the firemans strike here a few years ago, when they were complaining about their colossal starting wage and two weeks on, two weeks off rota.

Just thought i'd chuck that one in there, see what people made of the 'hero' status now.

Just proves a long standing theory held my most squaddies. Civvies know bugger all.

Gdolkin
03-09-2008, 12:29
Slaaneshi Slave, we get it. You've been in some sort of military. It takes all sorts. Please come down off it, 'heroism' can mean different things to different people in different contexts, and you're just sounding smug and arrogant.
On topic, I agree that anyone who found themselves caught up in the Heresy and stood up for loyalty etc. despite being utterly surrounded by traitors is a hero. From Ignace Karkasy to Garro to Solomon Demeter, heroes all. And of course, Sanguinius.

Darkstar2586
03-09-2008, 12:32
Just proves a long standing theory held my most squaddies. Civvies know bugger all.

Don't be like that, really, yes the military is very dangerous, you know this when you sign up, we "civvies" know this, its why the British army still has the support of the public in the war, we know what effort you lads (from all allied countries) are doing out there, and how awful it must be, but theres no need to be confrontational is there?

Sceleris82
03-09-2008, 15:29
Not a great deal of difference between stupid and heroic. Only difference is Stupid is when you die, Heroic is when you live. It's not heroic if you are more than 50% sure that you'll live. It's doing your job.

How you can state this and then being a soldier, well lets just say i think its a bad bad attitude.



Everytime a soldier on ops picks up his rifle and leaves the camp he knows he may die. More than that, any time of the day, anywhere he is there is a risk he will die by enemy action. If you think a guy who assaults an enemy bunker to give his friends a chance of bugging out is unafraid, you need a reality check. If you're not scared, there is something wrong with your head. Fear keeps you going, it makes you work harder, it makes your run faster, it makes do things you never could. If you're not afraid, I don't want you in my section.

Heroism has nothing to do with being unafraid, is has to do with overcoming that fear, mastering it and using it as a weapon.

Uhm, thats what we have been saying all along, thats what space marines learn, thats what the 300 learned. They learned to deal with fear and not panic in the face of danger.

And have you read the Space marines stories, there are plenty of stories where marines sacrifices themself for their brother/brothers.

Sanginius was filled with dread when he entered that battle barge, he controlled it though. Then he proceded to alone attack the god like horus and sacrificed himself for humanity, and the awsome part is, he fully well know he would be killed in a horrible manner.

So following your own logic.
Was very affraid, but managed to control it = Check.
Sacrificed himself for someone else = Check.
He knew he was gonna die doing so = Check.
So following your own logic, he should be the ultimate hero in 40k.

Ubermensch Commander
03-09-2008, 18:16
Ok First all I am gonna chime in off topic.
Being in the military DOES NOT make you a hero. Repeat: DOES NOT.
Heroes save lives.
Paramedics? Heroes
Firefighters? Hereos
Just because your LIFE is in DANGER does not make something HEROIC.
Sky divers are heroic? Nascar drivers?

Back on topic: This is why i feel most the OP question should be "which is the most Epic?" as most of them are more epic than heroic. After all, all those guardsmen dying to support the most terrible fascist regime in the history of mankind......not really heroic when you think about it. Oh sure from their POV they died "serving their Emperor/Imperium." and thus anything they did was justified.
But following that logic, the SS are amognst the most heroic bastards out there. After all, they died while "serving their country and Fuhrer" and all that genocide they did? Well, they took lives to SAVE lives...the lives of the pure Aryan peoples. *rolls eyes* praise their noble and heroic sacrifice.

Sceleris82
03-09-2008, 20:02
Hmmm, you actually make sense, the most epic moment in 40k would proberly have been better. But maybe it makes the choices rather limited to.

LexxBomb
04-09-2008, 07:46
Just proves a long standing theory held my most squaddies. Civvies know bugger all.

yer and not all enlisted or officers (lets call them Ruperts) know yack all either... lets take for instance the prince of Wales... enough said.

I hope you know Slaaneshi Slave that sometimes it actually the civiles that have a harder time. I for instance am the son of an Ex Intelligence Officer and as such am not allowed to serve in the armed forces in a frony line capacity due to the risk of capture.

there is a big difference between someone in combat who knows the risks and someone who shouldn't be there in the first place...

as a side note... if you seek glory it isn't heroic and if it out of survival same goes. it has to be selfless act.
to me giving an organ is the mopst heroic thing someone can do...

Koryphaus
04-09-2008, 08:32
Go us organ doners!

Slaaneshi Slave
04-09-2008, 08:40
to me giving an organ is the mopst heroic thing someone can do...

Morr hjeroic than going into combat against an enemy you have no grudge against to aid people you will never meet? I don't think so.

Master Stark
04-09-2008, 08:49
Morr hjeroic than going into combat against an enemy you have no grudge against to aid people you will never meet? I don't think so.

As I said; thats a very artificially narrow view of heroism.

Commisar Dave
04-09-2008, 19:08
Other - The loyalist marines turned upon by their own on Istvaan, completely surrounded, betrayed, no hope (of victory), no reinforcements.

I would think that qualifies at the very least as quite heroic

ArtificerArmour
04-09-2008, 22:45
The dirty Eldar who killed Ygethmor on Medusa 5...That took some great big hairy balls of the Gods.

Goruax
05-09-2008, 00:20
I'm sure it's been stated, but the trouble is that heroism is vastly subjective.

For a start, many see the Space Marines as 'naturally' heroic, or should be doing heroic deeds as part of their daily routine and thusly a 'heroic' deed by a human (ie, player) standard wouldn't necessarily be that heroic when placed in the context of a Space Marine.

Aside from this, we've got the racial bias. An Ork is going to be deemed less heroic because 'he' (oh semantics how I love thee) is barbaric and less prone, or perhaps ignorant, of certain emotions, and a 'heroic' action from an Ork point of view maybe be deemed as brutality, stupidity or another derogatory reason.
This can be applied to almost any other race, though some are less prone, such as Eldar.

Personally, the heroic deed should be going beyond the measures laid out before the individual/heroes and attempting to perform something impossible by their own standards, and whether they achieve it or not is irrevelant, since the fact they attempted to do such a thing is heroic.


But none of you needed that :angel: oh well!

My personal favourite, even though it is out of my own definition, is Jurgen, Commisar Cain's aid. His unflinching manner against all foes is heroic, despite his own lacklustre approach to the things in his path.
Not so much a 'moment' as a 'hero'[/stupidtiredrant:p]

Zeigfryd
05-09-2008, 03:55
What I think is that it can simply be whittled down to, in the 40k sense, when put in the situation, would you rather face a carniflex as a Space Marine or a Guardsman?

Darkhorse
05-09-2008, 14:47
Jurgan & Cain vs. the Orks when they crash landed behind enemy lines.
The death of Nighthaunter comes a close second though.

Darkhorse
05-09-2008, 14:52
Why did god create cops?

Thought that was the Rt. Hon. Robert Peel MP?

Surgency
06-09-2008, 01:25
I was disappointed to not see the Alpha Legions actions during the Horus Heresy up there. Without dropping any spoilers, I'd say they had the most heroic moment of all, selflessly giving of themselves, for the reasons they gave...

Master Stark
06-09-2008, 02:35
Thought that was the Rt. Hon. Robert Peel MP?

Well, yes. But it doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Dictator
06-09-2008, 02:51
Sanguinius's death was extremely heroic and tragic.

Gdolkin
06-09-2008, 03:05
I'm sure it's been stated, but the trouble is that heroism is vastly subjective.

For a start, many see the Space Marines as 'naturally' heroic, or should be doing heroic deeds as part of their daily routine and thusly a 'heroic' deed by a human (ie, player) standard wouldn't necessarily be that heroic when placed in the context of a Space Marine.

Aside from this, we've got the racial bias. An Ork is going to be deemed less heroic because 'he' (oh semantics how I love thee) is barbaric and less prone, or perhaps ignorant, of certain emotions, and a 'heroic' action from an Ork point of view maybe be deemed as brutality, stupidity or another derogatory reason.
This can be applied to almost any other race, though some are less prone, such as Eldar.

Personally, the heroic deed should be going beyond the measures laid out before the individual/heroes and attempting to perform something impossible by their own standards, and whether they achieve it or not is irrevelant, since the fact they attempted to do such a thing is heroic.


But none of you needed that :angel: oh well!

My personal favourite, even though it is out of my own definition, is Jurgen, Commisar Cain's aid. His unflinching manner against all foes is heroic, despite his own lacklustre approach to the things in his path.
Not so much a 'moment' as a 'hero'[/stupidtiredrant:p]

Thankyou for that sir, this thread needed that.

Gussy
27-09-2008, 16:05
How about the path that the Alpha legion was forced to take after being shown the future by the cabal?

caplen
27-09-2008, 17:53
gotta b the defence of terra i mean cum on its THE defining monent in 40k (except 4 the great crusade but shh)

DrDoom
27-09-2008, 20:46
Horus realizing that the Emporer was a lie and turning his back on the Imperium he had helped build. Horus left everything he knew and betrayed his father in order to follow his beliefs.

WrYpoRrY
27-09-2008, 23:11
I reckon the true bravery went to Garviel Loken, Tarik Torgaddon and Saul Tarvitz as they fought their own traitorous legions on Istvaan III in the name of the emperor. Fighting their former battle brothers just because it was right. Defying their PRIMARCHs for heaven's sake.

ThunderShrike.
27-09-2008, 23:18
The cadians who gave their lives fighting against the hell spawn daemons at cadia are heroic.

philipdgilbert
27-09-2008, 23:33
Sanguinius fighting Horus.

It's not that he knew he was going to die, it's not that he fought Horus to a standstill, its the moment that they stand, brother against brother, light against dark, the whole universe balancing between them, everyone holding their breath to see which was they coin lands. And then, as if at some unheard signal, they both lunge for each other.

Armageddon, Magragge, Iyanden, are all just planets, Horus and Sanguinius was the whole universe, personal combat between good and evil.

abasio
23-10-2008, 12:32
Sanguinius fighting Horus.

It's not that he knew he was going to die, it's not that he fought Horus to a standstill, its the moment that they stand, brother against brother, light against dark, the whole universe balancing between them, everyone holding their breath to see which was they coin lands. And then, as if at some unheard signal, they both lunge for each other.

Armageddon, Magragge, Iyanden, are all just planets, Horus and Sanguinius was the whole universe, personal combat between good and evil.

Very dramatic!
Just because that was a very dramatic moment doesn't mean it was the most heroic.

I still think the defense of Terra as there would have been the most acts of heroism. All the way down from the Primarchs to the common soldier. How many soldiers had to face daemons at that time?

ChaplainVarnus
31-10-2008, 13:13
Has no-one mentioned the Deathwatch delivering the Tyrannic Plague into the Norn Queen of Hive Fleet Leviathan's sixth's tendril?!!! Inquisitor Kryptman capturing a brood of Genestealers alive!!! The best, most heroic award in the Warhammer universe could be Fulgrim strangling the Avatar. That rocked (although he (BADLY) scorched his hands in the process.).

Poseidal
31-10-2008, 14:59
The best, most heroic award in the Warhammer universe could be Fulgrim strangling the Avatar. That rocked (although he (BADLY) scorched his hands in the process.).
I guess it's pretty impressive strangling a creature that doesn't breath.

Daugaard
31-10-2008, 15:28
The basic tau fire warrior is the most heroic fighting for the greater good
GO TAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IncrediSteve
31-10-2008, 19:46
I want to change my answer now that I've thought about it.

The most heroic moment in all of 40k, to me, is when Lion'El Johnson punched out Leman Russ. :D

Because I really don't like Space Wolves :p

heretics bane
31-10-2008, 21:02
Has no-one mentioned the Deathwatch delivering the Tyrannic Plague into the Norn Queen of Hive Fleet Leviathan's sixth's tendril?!!! Inquisitor Kryptman capturing a brood of Genestealers alive!!! The best, most heroic award in the Warhammer universe could be Fulgrim strangling the Avatar. That rocked (although he (BADLY) scorched his hands in the process.).

Yeah and stunk of marine fanboism to the max yeah he punched out a massive titan-esque machine filled with the essence of a god with his bare gauntlets(which where powered due to his armour):wtf:

Its like if like Castellian Creed punched out the nightbringer with a power fist.:eyebrows:

IronClaw
31-10-2008, 22:28
I'm going with Ravenor taking on LOADS of nids, having to control the whole group for them to survive. That one is epic, and he is pritty much a man in a wheelchair!

Try Again Bragg
01-11-2008, 00:40
I voted for other and I split my vote between these two:

Everything that Eldrad did during the 13th Black Crusade.

The Space Wolves' 13th Company following Russ into the Eye of Terror.

WLBjork
01-11-2008, 10:43
Pious.

The man who damaged the link of armour that Sanguinius struck to allow the Emperor to kill Horus.

And Pious?

A mere guardsman.

heretics bane
01-11-2008, 13:22
I thought that was just a legend within the BA?

Eblis_Dead_Forever
02-11-2008, 11:58
Here is something of interest for those who like conspiracy theories. Look at the art work of the Emperor vs Horus. Now look at the wound in Sanguinius' chest. You'll see that it was caused by a sword, Horus doesn't have a sword. Also the puncture marks on the armour are outwards. So he was stabbed from behind by a sword. Thus from the art work it looks like the Emperor killed Sanguinius.
Now this contradicts all the fluff. But given how detailed the art is, it would lead one to believe it was done on purpose. It raises some interesting questions if nothing else.
Also Sanguinius by sacrificing himself effectively damned his own legion to the Black Rage and the Red Thirst. Now if he could see his own death at the hands of Horus he obviously knew what would happen to his own legion. So he not only martyred himself, but also risked the future of his own legion so that the Emperor could vanquish Horus.

nedsta
02-11-2008, 12:22
pious all the way, bet the poor sod had actually near the teleporter to fix the soup vending machine,when BAM he ends up in horus' ship so does what any good vending repair man would do, attacks horus with his biro and clip board of power and spanner set of brilliance

Harwammer
02-11-2008, 18:26
The mortal races are all heroic: doomed to die they could just end their own wretched lives themselves, but instead they battle on in life, trying to improve the lives of others so that when they do die they've done something commendable.

heretics bane
02-11-2008, 20:55
Here is something of interest for those who like conspiracy theories. Look at the art work of the Emperor vs Horus. Now look at the wound in Sanguinius' chest. You'll see that it was caused by a sword, Horus doesn't have a sword. Also the puncture marks on the armour are outwards. So he was stabbed from behind by a sword. Thus from the art work it looks like the Emperor killed Sanguinius.
Now this contradicts all the fluff. But given how detailed the art is, it would lead one to believe it was done on purpose. It raises some interesting questions if nothing else.
Also Sanguinius by sacrificing himself effectively damned his own legion to the Black Rage and the Red Thirst. Now if he could see his own death at the hands of Horus he obviously knew what would happen to his own legion. So he not only martyred himself, but also risked the future of his own legion so that the Emperor could vanquish Horus.


Maybee when he was dueling Horus , he got spun around and horus stabbed him in the back with a talon of his lightning claws?

matches
10-11-2008, 16:27
How about Kage vs Genestealer in hand-to-hand combat in 'Last Chancers'? - (hmmmmm chiny rub) !!!!!! :wtf:

Hasan ibn Sabbah
10-11-2008, 18:32
The most heroic moment in history of WH40 WILL be when Emperor finally win over His fears and generally being shy, and shout loud that there is no toilet paper near Golden Throne. After 10.000 years He's still fighting with Himself.

LokkoRex
10-11-2008, 19:00
Yarricks defence of armageddon TWICE!

seriously he's the coolest of all imperial guardsmen, and he's over 50 years old, and still kills orks in boat-loads!
he earned the respect of a chapter master!(Vulkan He'Stan, i don't now how to pronounce his name).

and he beat ghazghkull twice!(apparently Thraka left armagedon, cause he got bored)

hawo0313
11-11-2008, 08:36
Id have to say Sanguinius vs horus he not only knew he was about to die and fought horus out of loyalty to the emperor, he also gave his last moment into one final attack against horus.

Loyal, dramatic, bold and heroic what else could you want

Koryphaus
11-11-2008, 08:42
Here is something of interest for those who like conspiracy theories. Look at the art work of the Emperor vs Horus. Now look at the wound in Sanguinius' chest. You'll see that it was caused by a sword, Horus doesn't have a sword. Also the puncture marks on the armour are outwards. So he was stabbed from behind by a sword. Thus from the art work it looks like the Emperor killed Sanguinius.
Now this contradicts all the fluff. But given how detailed the art is, it would lead one to believe it was done on purpose. It raises some interesting questions if nothing else.
Also Sanguinius by sacrificing himself effectively damned his own legion to the Black Rage and the Red Thirst. Now if he could see his own death at the hands of Horus he obviously knew what would happen to his own legion. So he not only martyred himself, but also risked the future of his own legion so that the Emperor could vanquish Horus.

Could just be that Horus stabbed a whole bunch of people in the back.. You know, being a traitor and all.



Its like if like Castellian Creed punched out the nightbringer with a power fist.:eyebrows:

He was hiding Jarran Kell under his coat.

abasio
11-11-2008, 10:01
Here is something of interest for those who like conspiracy theories. Look at the art work of the Emperor vs Horus. Now look at the wound in Sanguinius' chest. You'll see that it was caused by a sword, Horus doesn't have a sword. Also the puncture marks on the armour are outwards. So he was stabbed from behind by a sword. Thus from the art work it looks like the Emperor killed Sanguinius.
Now this contradicts all the fluff. But given how detailed the art is, it would lead one to believe it was done on purpose. It raises some interesting questions if nothing else.
Also Sanguinius by sacrificing himself effectively damned his own legion to the Black Rage and the Red Thirst. Now if he could see his own death at the hands of Horus he obviously knew what would happen to his own legion. So he not only martyred himself, but also risked the future of his own legion so that the Emperor could vanquish Horus.

On that picture http://gamingtp.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/fullview_emperor-horus.jpg
the black drop of blood on a red background sign on Sanguinius' shoulder pad & mid section, looks like the Eye of Horus :eyebrows:

DonKarst0n
11-11-2008, 13:06
Old Pwnage Yarrick for sure. He doesn't need power armour genetical engineering on him to beat the s*** out of greenskins. He has not been brainwashed like SM (well I don't count daily propaganda into this and his education in a schola progenium).
And he has shown the Imperium how to treat their old people:
1st Old men corps - You don't have to be young to rock

heretics bane
11-11-2008, 16:11
On that picture http://gamingtp.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/fullview_emperor-horus.jpg
the black drop of blood on a red background sign on Sanguinius' shoulder pad & mid section, looks like the Eye of Horus :eyebrows:

Its a black tear drop on a red backround by the looks of it but it does look an awful lot like the EOH.

Commissar Masyk
11-11-2008, 20:42
The Emperor's battle with Horus.

Anything else is heresy.

Maidel
11-11-2008, 20:45
The Emperor's battle with Horus.

Anything else is heresy.


Face-palm-pain...


are you for real?

Lowmans
12-11-2008, 09:13
Erebus guiding Horus toward the light :angel:

Koryphaus
12-11-2008, 09:17
And Masyk does it again!

heretics bane
12-11-2008, 16:00
The Emperor's battle with Horus.

Anything else is heresy.

Its like hes a new breed of Fanboi.....:eek:

Lord Cook
12-11-2008, 16:21
The guardsman Ollanius Pius throwing himself in front of the Emperor to save his life.

DrDoom
12-11-2008, 17:59
On that picture http://gamingtp.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/fullview_emperor-horus.jpg
the black drop of blood on a red background sign on Sanguinius' shoulder pad & mid section, looks like the Eye of Horus :eyebrows:

What's Horus holding in his hand (the one not holding the giant mace)?

Lowmans
12-11-2008, 19:45
Bits of Sanguinius' innards ata guess!

heretics bane
12-11-2008, 20:43
Just looks like his talons, the emporer has an almost identical pair.

Vampiric16
18-11-2008, 16:19
The most heroic act predates the age of the emperor. It was when a man looked at a cow and made a concious decision to pull the pink things between its legs and drink whatever came out.

WastedWhiteBoy
18-11-2008, 17:22
:D

An epic response to an epic thread...all the more epic because it is true!

nedsta
19-11-2008, 00:18
The most heroic act predates the age of the emperor. It was when a man looked at a cow and made a concious decision to pull the pink things between its legs and drink whatever came out.

LMFAO i've just laughed coffee out of my nose at this :D