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Templar Ben
23-08-2008, 03:00
Are there any in the IG?

Obviously the models are all male but is that because of fluff or is it like Cadians and the simplest models to sculpt were male.

Ageman
23-08-2008, 04:08
i believe it is that the vostroyan firstborn are made up of every first born son, to a familey so no women there

TheBlueGrassGamer
23-08-2008, 04:13
Obviously the models are all male but is that because of fluff or is it like Cadians and the simplest models to sculpt were male.

There's a fluff reason. If I recall, the Vostroyan's background goes something like this:

The Vostroyans refused to give aide to the Emperor of Mankind in the time of his greatest need (i.e. - during the Hersey). Once the Hersey had been decided, the Vostroyans were visited by Robutte Gilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, and forced to answer for their inaction.

As punishment, Robutte forced the Vostroyans to give up their first born sons to the Imperial Guard. Since the punishment hasn't been lifted, and the Vostroyans aren't willing to go against the word of the Primarch, the Vostroyan regiments raised for the Imperial Guard are composed only of the first born. Hence why the Vostroyan regiments are called the Vostroyan First Born.

Thanks,
Bluegrass

MrBigMr
23-08-2008, 04:49
I know the first borns are force to join, but what's to stop more from joining up? Ever heard of reducing the sentence through good behavior. Naurally they would probably end up in less than great roles. And what about the PDF?

Vostroyan First Daughters
Vostroyan Brothers of the First Borns
Vostroyan People With Same Names As The First Borns

Clockwork-Knight
23-08-2008, 04:59
It depends how often the Imperium actually visits the planet to steal/take away the men into the Imperial Guard. If it would be yearly (which is actually expected), then only first-borns wouldn't be enough. However, if the Imperium comes to collect the tithes every 10 years, or perhaps even longer, there would be no problem to make up several regiments consisting of many firstborn men. After all, warp-travel isn't that reliable, collecting tithes takes much time, the Adeptus Terra has to remember to collect it in the first place, ships have to arrive there at all, and even the most safest planets could be suddenly engulfed in a warp-storm for years, perhaps even centuries (sure hope that no daemon-invasion happens then, of course).

Malevon
23-08-2008, 05:05
In Vostroyan society, a man is measured by his mustache. A man without a mustache is not considered to be a full man. How do you think they feel about women then? Vostroya is a male-dominated society; I doubt a woman would be allowed to do what is considered in that culture to be a man's job.

Tommygun
23-08-2008, 05:08
In Vostroyan society, a man is measured by his mustache. A man without a mustache is not considered to be a full man. How do you think they feel about women then? Vostroya is a male-dominated society; I doubt a woman would be allowed to do what is considered in that culture to be a man's job.

A female Vostroyan?

TheBlueGrassGamer
23-08-2008, 05:13
I know the first borns are force to join, but what's to stop more from joining up? Ever heard of reducing the sentence through good behavior. Naurally they would probably end up in less than great roles. And what about the PDF?

I think that the First Born regiments are the *only* form of Guard tithe that the Adepts Terra expects from Vostroya. There are more First Born regiments/units, due to the fact that Vostoryan First Born are given numeric designations. In any case of the Vostroyan First Born, it's specifically in their background that the First Born only take the first born sons from the planet.

A lot of this info comes from the WDs published around the release of Cities of Death and the Medusa campaign. I'm too lazy to dig them out at the moment.


It depends how often the Imperium actually visits the planet to steal/take away the men into the Imperial Guard. If it would be yearly (which is actually expected), then only first-borns wouldn't be enough. However, if the Imperium comes to collect the tithes every 10 years, or perhaps even longer, there would be no problem to make up several regiments consisting of many firstborn men.

Interesting you should mention that. The First Born background specifically states that due to Robutte's punishment, the First Born are constantly replenished because of it's unique status. So we know that the First Born sends troop ships every, say, two decades to pick up the next batch of First Born.


even the most safest planets could be suddenly engulfed in a warp-storm for years, perhaps even centuries (sure hope that no daemon-invasion happens then, of course).

You mean like Medusa V.... the campaign/world where the First Born were first made known to the public at large?

Thanks,
Bluegrass

Bregalad
23-08-2008, 11:53
There are female troopers in IG, but, as already said, fluff restricts their use in the Vostroyans. But it should not be too difficult to justify e.g. a single female sharpshootist ( http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=133 9 being the able and famous sister of someone in the regiment.

TheBedla
23-08-2008, 12:26
Well, it's all certainly true what you said about women in the Vostroyan regiments, but the other facts are a bit different - call me picky, but they give a different "feeling" to the Vostroyan.

They didn't refuse to help the Emperor, but instead of sending men-at-arms to aid, they chose to maintain their production, thinking that would help the Imperium better.
They weren't forced by Gulliman to enlist every firstborn son - they chose to do that as a penace (sp?).
And concerning tithe rates - the new rulebook gives us a number: >50,000,000 per annum. That sets the Vostroyan population to a very interesting level, if all these are firstborn...

And - the Firstborn do NOT take it as a punishment, but as a chance - according to the novel Rebel Winter (about Vossies), most characters don't even want to return back home, where all they could get is a lifelong factory shift. Instead, the majority choose to serve for more then the prescripted 10-year period every Firstborn is expected to serve.

TheBlueGrassGamer
23-08-2008, 18:10
They didn't refuse to help the Emperor, but
instead of sending men-at-arms to aid, they chose to maintain their production, thinking that would help the Imperium better.

At a time when the Imperium had an abundance of lasguns. And was lacking the men to use them in defense of the Emperor.


They weren't forced by Gulliman to enlist every firstborn son - they chose to do that as a penance.

The Imperium of Man had just lot it's Emperor in a costly and vicious war, the sentiment toward those who refused to help couldn't have been good. I'd imagine that the general sentiment toward Vostorya was something along the lines of "If you had given men instead of lasguns, the Emperor would not have perished..."

Thoughts like that make people angry. Couple that with the fact that Gilliman, the most beloved of the Primarchs and savior of the Imperium, has come to ask them why they didn't fight?


... that really doesn't sound like much of a choice.

The Vostoryan leaders probably bowing and scrapping as much as they could, doing their very best to convince the Primarch that they were truly sorry, repentant, and wanted to make nice. How could they secure forgiveness and redemption?

Gilliam may have, off-handedly, suggested a tithe of first born sons to the Imperium as Imperial Guard units could serve as a penance. The Vostoryans ran with it.

After a couple of millenia, I'm sure that the Vostoryans could have convinced themselves that it was really their idea to offer up the Vostoryan First Born regiments.


And concerning tithe rates - the new rulebook gives us a number: >50,000,000 per annum. That sets the Vostroyan population to a very interesting level, if all these are firstborn...

And yet, in the first volume of the Siege of Vraks, the Kreig are said to routinely*exceed* even the most stringent quotas that the Munitorum/Adepts Terra place on them. Impressive, considering the Adepts of Terra only accept one tithe from Kreig: Imperial Guard regiments.

And keep in mind, it's only the *first born sons* that get taken into the Vostoryan First Born. Every daughter, even if she is the first born child, gets to stay on Vostroyan. After the first born son is given over the Imperial Guard, all the other sons a couple has are allowed to stay on Vostorya.

Plenty men are lleft to build lasguns, keep up day to day life, and pair off with women so that the Vostroyans can continue to replenish the ranks of the First Born.


And - the Firstborn do NOT take it as a punishment, but as a chance - according to the novel Rebel Winter (about Vossies), most characters don't even want to return back home, where all they could get is a lifelong factory shift. Instead, the majority choose to serve for more then the prescribed 10-year period every Firstborn is expected to serve.

You're right. It is a choice.

... but a choice for the lesser of two evils.


Well, it's all certainly true what you said about women in the Vostroyan regiments, but the other facts are a bit different - call me picky, but they give a different "feeling" to the Vostroyan.

Facts are malleable, fluff is open to interpretation, and gamers have their own preferences. Everything I post is due to my reading of the Vostroyan fluff published in WD. It strikes me a bit truer and more fitting with 40K.

.... but that's because I'm bitter and cynical. ;)

Thanks,
Bluegrass

Templar Ben
23-08-2008, 18:54
Thanks for your help everyone. I was thinking of some female cossacks for Rough Riders but I will stick with men.

Chem-Dog
24-08-2008, 00:05
the Vostroyans were visited by Robutte Gilliman

I don't remember Guilleman being involved,


I know the first borns are force to join, but what's to stop more from joining up?

This is where Vostroyans probably differ from most IG regiments, the people not inducted to the regiment are almost entirely dedicated to supplying the regiments, I imagine PDF duties simply fall to firstborn sons while waiting to be old enough to join the regiment or waiting for the next transport.


In Vostroyan society, a man is measured by his mustache. A man without a mustache is not considered to be a full man. How do you think they feel about women then?

I've seen plenty of moustachioed women in my time and, to be honest, I think a hazardous battleline is the best place for them :evilgrin:


But it should not be too difficult to justify e.g. a single female sharpshootist

Hua-Mulan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Mulan) ;)
All boy army? You're bound to get one or two girls who decide they should do the job...


Thanks for your help everyone. I was thinking of some female cossacks for Rough Riders but I will stick with men.

There are some examples of IG regiments taking on indigenous people as additional strength, a group (tribe/refugees ect) of women with knowledge of horsemeat might just be an example of additional auxiliary troops taken on in a particular warzone and not disbanded as the regiment moves on to another warzone.

Templar Ben
24-08-2008, 00:38
I know I could but I was wanting to stick with a Cossack themed force so no Ogryn, or Ratlings, or other IG forces.

I have scratch built a few tanks (with lots of brass accents) and I am working on my second steam powered sentinel (bean can with legs really).

Chem-Dog
24-08-2008, 00:54
.... no Ogryn, or Ratlings, or other IG forces.

They would simply be an auxiliary unit within the Vostroyan regiment, clothed and equipped by the regiment, although not originally Vostroyan they would quickly adopt attitude and obviously dress of their adoptive Firstborn Regiment.;)

Failing that, a daughter a rulling Tetrarch decides to blow her money on a one way trip to wherever the Vostroyan regiment her boyfriend was shipped off to, a dozen or so servants and friends (all girls) go with you have a Cossack cavalry unit.

Tetrarch has 10 daughters but no sons, they all keenly feel his shame at not having provided a son for the Firstborn regiments so they sneak onboard a ferry craft transporting new recruits and there you go, legitimate, fluff friendly ways of including some lady Cossack troops in your army :)

Orwin
24-08-2008, 01:17
You can easily build a female army with the same rules as the Vostroyan and make them Vostroya's female PDF regiment or even a mixed regiment, if you prefer. I see no reason for not having very similar, if not equal, rules for both the tithed guard and its planet PDF.

It varies a lot in other cases, but i think this one is appliable.

MrBigMr
24-08-2008, 01:34
Hua-Mulan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Mulan) ;)
All boy army? You're bound to get one or two girls who decide they should do the job...
Ever seen the samurai movie Taboo by Takeshi Kitano? Forget Pretty Marines, you can always do Pretty Vostroyans. One fair skinned young man among the big burly, bearded Vossies. They'll take good care of him, I'm sure.


women with knowledge of horsemeat
:angel:


I know I could but I was wanting to stick with a Cossack themed force so no Ogryn, or Ratlings, or other IG forces.
Harasoo:
http://www.rackham-store.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=738&ref=UKCDMU01&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=46

Lyinar
25-08-2008, 03:17
Also, according to Rebel Winter, Vostroyan Firstborn Guardsmen are given leave at the end of their training specifically to go out and have sex.

Griefbringer
25-08-2008, 11:19
Presuming an even distribution between genders (at birth), and that all firstborn sons are shipped off-world, there should be an over-abundance of females left on the world itself.

Clockwork-Knight
25-08-2008, 16:05
Not necessarily. Seeing as medical distribution isn't that wide-spread for the common populace on most imperial worlds, death at childbirth could be quite common. Add in accidents at the factories, the harsh environment, and more emphasizing on letting men survive so that they may go to the Guard, the number of women could easily drop down to be only 1-6% more than the remaining men. The only ones with good health-care are planetary overlords and really really rich merchants. The rest can see for itself. Just turn in your mutant baby, so that you can be tortured for being a possible witch. :p