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Tarquinn
24-08-2008, 08:18
If this is more suitable for the M, P&T forum, please move it. Thanks.


With the release of Black Reach/the new SM codex I am starting collecting a Ultramarines 2nd company army. I know, that's probably the most common army worldwide, and that's why most people cannot stand them anymore, but believe me, in my gaming group it will be absolutely unique.

I own the 2nd edition Ultramarines codex, and to be honest, that's where most of my knowledge of the Ultramarine fluff and colour schmes comes from. As far as I am aware, most of it hasn't changed, but it's these few changes I am interested in. Mostly regarding the paint scheme. I've checked various GW sites, but didn't get conclusive answers to my questions.

I hope our warseer Ultramarine veterans can lend me a helping hand.

Here we go.

Sergeants: These days every single squad is led by a veteran sergeant, and not only by a mere non-verteran sergeant. Is that correct? If yes, that means that time of red helmets for sergeants, and/or red helmets with white stripes in the middle of them for veteran sergeants is over. Every full squad is now led by a white helmeted veteran sergeant. Can you confirm that? What about the trim of the shoulderpads? White, or company colour?

Techmarines/vehicle crew: In the 2nd edition these guys used to have a completly, except for the left shoulderpad, mechrite red armour. Now it seems that only the helmet is painted in mechrite red. Is there a definate rule?

Apothecary/Librarian/Chaplain: No change to these guys, except for the removal of the different levels of the librarian (Lexicanum, Codicier, Epistolary), right?

Armour/Tanks etc . in general: The main colour isn't ultramarine blue with a black basecoat anymore, but regal blue with black basecoat? Also Ultramarines have a lot more "bling" than they used to have, which is the only change which I want to keep to a minium. Too much gold starts too look ridiculous after a certain point.

Fluff: Besides the introduction of new types of squads and other goodies, and the aforementioned newly discovered love for everything that is golden, and can be stuck to power armour, are there any other important changes to good old blue boys?

Paddy Mcfee
24-08-2008, 08:37
I'm not exactly a Warseer vet, but seeing as I've collected Ultramarines for around about 8 years I'd say I'm qualified to answer. :)

Sergeants:
I was not aware this was the case, most sergeants are still sergeants with plain old red helms, and Veteran sergeants shud still be red helms with white stripe. Shoulder pads should still remain company colours. Trim should only be white if the sergeant is a veteran sergeant of a veteran squad AFAIK.

Techmarines/Vehicle Crew:
Techmarines I'm not so sure on, as the one seen in the current Codex: Space Marines is blue with a red helm, whereas I'm sure I recall the techmarine pictured in the relevant Index Astartes article to be all red. Any one else any clearer? Vehicle crew are ususally all blue as vehicle crews are drawn from the reserve companies.

Librarians/Chaplains/Apothecary:
No changes but the ranks of librarian still exsist, thought AFAIK there isnt a specific symbol or rank identification that can be painted on.

Armour/Tanks:
This appears to be personal choice, blue is blue, just depends how dark and gothic you want your tanks to appear. There are no formal rules on the shade or amount of 'bling' to put on your tanks, other than squad markings for Rhinos.

Fluff:
Only major point I can think of is the mention in the 5th edition rulebook about the astromicon becoming weaker and flickering, making communication with the eastern fringe, Ultramar included, difficult to impossible.

Hope that helped, if anyone else knows better I'll happily be educated.

Drogmir
24-08-2008, 08:46
Technically the only reason it's Regal Blue instead of Ultramarine Blue is because 2nd edition was infamous for Candied Colored Marines. While the current status quo is realistic colored marines.

It's your choice in the end, but I actually enjoyed the candied colors, so go figure. :p

Also fluff wise in the 4th edition SM codex Ultramarines got honor guards and Tyranid vets, which isn't too new fluff wise but somewhat different.

alphaecho
24-08-2008, 08:57
The source book "Insignium Astartes" shows the red helmet/white stripe as being the marking for a veteran sergeant. Individual veterans within a squad can have the white helmet no matter their company or squad. All it means is that a suitable gap has not opened in the First Company for them to be elevated yet. The shoulder pad trim of the sergeant will always be the colour of the company he is in.

At present Studio Techmarines are Blue with red helmets as opposed to all red.

In games terms, there may not be as many different levels of Librarian, but on a modelling level, why not keep the markings. Its better than a plain yellow tabard.

As for vehicles the Space Marine painting guide shows a codex grey Rhino with only certain panels picked out in Ultramarine Blue.

Generally you seem to be pre-occupied with what is an "official" Ultramarine colour scheme.

Again, referring to "Insignium Astartes" (I know not everybody has a copy), the Codex Astartes recommends that a Chapter change its markings periodically to confuse an enemy that may have been encountered over a long period. Examples shown use the double pointed horizontal arrow (commonly seen on the Studio Dark Angels) rather than the vertical white arrow on the Studio Ultramarines to denote a Tactical squad.

To that end, YOUR Second Company can use whatever markings or colours you think looks cool. All I would suggest is that they are not wildly left field (ie Space Wolf pack markings, using pink to indicate Second Company) and they are standard across your army ( all tactical squads use same symbols, all veteran sergeants have same helmet colour, all vehicles use the same scheme).

It just means MY Second Company were cleansing the galaxy fifty years before yours are.

Narf
24-08-2008, 11:54
Try painting non-metallic-metals if you dont want lots of gold on the models. ie base coat black, and highlighting up from dark brown, adding white each time, with a little yellow/white mix at the end. cant do it myself yet, but when its done well it looks really good. Same can be done for silvers, with grey as the higlighting colour. This means the moel wont be covered in "shiny" bling, but would still have variations in the scheme.

I'm sure someone else can give a better method for NMM

NARF

Minister
24-08-2008, 18:07
Here we go.

Sergeants: These days every single squad is led by a veteran sergeant, and not only by a mere non-verteran sergeant. Is that correct? If yes, that means that time of red helmets for sergeants, and/or red helmets with white stripes in the middle of them for veteran sergeants is over. Every full squad is now led by a white helmeted veteran sergeant. Can you confirm that? What about the trim of the shoulderpads? White, or company colour?

This one vexes me too (I am restarting my Ultramarines, being fed up with deploying horde armies). I am currently intending to sidestep the issue. Models which I want to have as veteran sergeants will have red helmets with a white stripe, others will (in best Space Marine tradition) go bareheaded.*

In all cases, shoulder pad rims remain company colour.


Techmarines/vehicle crew: In the 2nd edition these guys used to have a completly, except for the left shoulderpad, mechrite red armour. Now it seems that only the helmet is painted in mechrite red. Is there a definate rule?

Apothecary/Librarian/Chaplain: No change to these guys, except for the removal of the different levels of the librarian (Lexicanum, Codicier, Epistolary), right?

Not all vehicle crew will be Techmarines (or Techmarine initiates) and so some will be in fully blue armour. Otherwise, it seems that current doctrine is more lax on whole-armour colours, with chapter heraldry being more prominent. Personally, I intend to stick to the old rule.


Armour/Tanks etc . in general: The main colour isn't ultramarine blue with a black basecoat anymore, but regal blue with black basecoat? Also Ultramarines have a lot more "bling" than they used to have, which is the only change which I want to keep to a minium. Too much gold starts too look ridiculous after a certain point.

The exact shade of blue used is a matter of choice. I'm intending to have a shot with Mordian as a base myself. In any case, the red side panels seem to have been removed (though I'm tempted to retain them).


Fluff: Besides the introduction of new types of squads and other goodies, and the aforementioned newly discovered love for everything that is golden, and can be stuck to power armour, are there any other important changes to good old blue boys?

There have been a few changes to named characters (Agemman, for example, is the captain of the 1st company and Regent of Ultramar at the close of the 41st millennium), however the fluff has remained reasonably constant.

It is of note, however, that the Arch-Arsonist of Charadon, having been left to build up his forces whilst the Ultramarines have been dealing with the splinters of the Kraken and encroaching Tau, has launched an attack on Ultramar.. This is presumably the setting for the Black Reach game, but I am yet to see the thing myself.



* My assumption remains that the models on the tabletop are representations of the individuals in the sort of poses that a painting would give. Not only was the Veteran sitting on my desk probably in a rather more subdued version of his heraldry, he was wearing his helmet during the battle, and almost certainly not spending the entire game looking dramatic on top of a rock outcropping.

Tarquinn
24-08-2008, 18:24
Thanks everybody. You were most helpful. :)