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Kroxigore
24-08-2008, 14:03
Hi there, I would like to get some clarification on what happens, when I use the siren song on a warmachine. I do know, that a warmachine cannot charge. The wording of the siren song includes that the unit subject to it has to either declare a charge or flee. As a warmachine cannot declare a charge, I assume, that it has to flee as this is the only one of the two options, that it has. Can somebody please veryfy or contradict this? Thanks in advance!

Atrahasis
24-08-2008, 14:42
It would appear that this is the case.

However, given the flawed reasoning used to justify the ItP answer, Sigmar knows what the GW response would be.

EvC
24-08-2008, 14:57
Does it not say you can only use it on a unit that is able to declare a charge? If so, it can't be used on a regular warmachine (Note word warmachine before someone comes in and smugly says "what about the gyrocoptor, bucko?!" ...or even the Steam Tank. I'd love to see that get Sirened in, no idea how it would work).

Loopstah
24-08-2008, 15:00
I agree, War Machine crew cannot declare a charge so you cannot use Siren Song on them.

Atrahasis
24-08-2008, 15:22
I stand corrected, misremembered the Siren Song wording.

As for the Steam Tank, I believe the sequence would be this:

1. At the "Start of Turn", the empire player declares how many Steam Points to generate.
2. If the Tank generates 1 or more points, then the Daemon player can nominate it, and force it to declare a charge
3. The Empire player decides how many steam points to use for the charge
4. The effect of Siren Song is then calculated as normal.

Shallowain
24-08-2008, 20:13
IIRC a steam tank does never charge, it just counts as charging, when it moves in btb with the enemy, doesn't it?

Atrahasis
25-08-2008, 08:13
You do not remember correctly.

alextroy
26-08-2008, 01:36
He's remembering 6th Edition Steamtank. Purge that monstrositiy from you memory Shallowain.

gortexgunnerson
27-08-2008, 14:26
Also isnt the steam stank immune to non strength based magical spells preventing siren song from being cast upon it?

decker_cky
27-08-2008, 14:46
Siren Song isn't a spell, so could be used.

Faustburg
27-08-2008, 15:41
I stand corrected, misremembered the Siren Song wording.

As for the Steam Tank, I believe the sequence would be this:

1. At the "Start of Turn", the empire player declares how many Steam Points to generate.
2. If the Tank generates 1 or more points, then the Daemon player can nominate it, and force it to declare a charge
3. The Empire player decides how many steam points to use for the charge
4. The effect of Siren Song is then calculated as normal.

But then again, it must be able to charge, and that in the meaning of in a reasonable range? A steamtank generating, say, 2 steam points to stand stationary and fire the gun, will not be able to charge the siren if it is 10-12" away, in the same vein as you wouldn't target any other unit on the other side of the table, obviously outside of charge range.


My money is on an updated FAQ, or various tournament house rule conventions saying "treat it as a spell, it have no effect", since it really doesn't work out as written now...

Briohmar
27-08-2008, 16:17
Original question, Siren song can only be directed against a unit that can normally charge according to the rulebook, therefore, using the Siren against a warmachine is a waste of 25 points. It would neither charge, nor flee. Siren song would also not work against a STank as it does not charge according to the normal rules. Besides, who would want a STank to do its impact hits on their keeper anyways. Granted, the Kepper could wipe away a STank in two rounds if s/he had an etherblade, but you'd definitely want to charge the tank to do it, so that it wouldn't have 7 points worth of impact and grind.

Bob the Butcher
25-09-2008, 20:46
However it could be used on an Ogre Scrap launcher as it is also a chariot.

DeathlessDraich
27-09-2008, 11:12
Original question, Siren song can only be directed against a unit that can normally charge according to the rulebook, therefore, using the Siren against a warmachine is a waste of 25 points. It would neither charge, nor flee. Siren song would also not work against a STank as it does not charge according to the normal rules. Besides, who would want a STank to do its impact hits on their keeper anyways. Granted, the Kepper could wipe away a STank in two rounds if s/he had an etherblade, but you'd definitely want to charge the tank to do it, so that it wouldn't have 7 points worth of impact and grind.

You are right - no sane player would sing the song at a fully functional Stank.

1) There is 1 circumstance where a Slaaneshi character might use Siren Song against the Steam Tank:

When the Steam Tank is badly crippled i.e. less 3 wounds or so. There is a good chance of the Tank inflicting further damage on itself when rolling for SP, even if it chooses to generate 1 SP.

2) There might seem to be some uncertainty whether Siren Song would affect the Stank.
The Stank "declares charges as normal" whereas Siren Song requires that the affected unit "must be able to charge normally"

However the FAQ does indicate that 'unusual charges' - "random movement", which is not a normal charge, would be affected by Siren Song.

Therefore the Stank is affected by Siren Song.


However it could be used on an Ogre Scrap launcher as it is also a chariot.

Forcing any chariot through difficult terrain presumably.

EDIT:
If the Stank had generated 2 SP say, and it was found to be out of range of the Slaaneshi character, Siren Song fails.

Therefore the Stank does not have to move (towards the Slaaneshi character) and can use the 2 SP for shooting etc but maybe not for a different charge?