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Chem-Dog
24-08-2008, 18:22
OK, so I'm currently trying to get a decent all inclusive LatD successor list together.

At the moment I'm trying to work out a Heavy Support vehicle which could feasibly stand in for a Russ, Malcador and maybe even a Predator (working on the assumption that the LatD can either manufacture their own versions of Imperial Vehicles OR have managed to steal or loot some) but I want it to have the flexibility to represent non Imperial Vehicles (like the STeG 4, AT70 Reaver and AT83 Brigand tanks of the Blood Pact, not to mention the Stalk tank) or even vehicle that are improvised tanks based on everyday vehicles like Cranes or Bulldozers (probably with guns added on) and maybe even allied Xenos vehicles, for the adventurous modeller out there.

Initially I was hoping to put all heavy tanks together as a single modular entry with lots of interesting variants bought as bolt-ons like the Ork Battlewaggon but I don't see a way of doing it neatly without a list of 100's of of variable weapon options, armour upgrades and new weapons mounts.

At the moment I've got a box with Armour F13 S11 R10 and Bs3 and that's about it :(

Help?
++++EDIT

OK, here's what I have at the moment, I'm nowhere near happy with it, but not getting anywhere with it either....

Name: Killermatron 500 (working title ;))
Type: Tank.
Armour: F13/S11/R10
Ballistic Skill: 3
Points: 35

Options:

Armour:
Buy additional point of armour for FRONT facing 20points

Buy additional point of armour for SIDE facings 10points
OR
Buy two additional points of armour for the SIDE facings 25points

Buy additional point of armour for REAR facing 10points
OR
Buy two additional points of armour for the REAR facing 25points

Hardpoints. The vehicle has one Hardpoint, This is the Hull front, you may upgrade your tank to carry a second hardpoint in the shape of a turret for XX points.
Main Weapon, the Vehicle may only ever mount one of these weapons, even if your Tank has two Hardpoints.
Twin Linked Heavy Stubbers 10points
Twin Liked Heavy Bolters 15points
Twin Linked Heavy Flamers 15points
Twin Linked Autocannons 20points
Twin Linked Lascannons 25points
Twin Linked Assault Cannons 35points
Plasmacannon 35points
Inferno Cannon 35points
Demolisher Cannon 65points
Battle Cannon 60points


Secondary Weapon: This can be placed on the Hull Hardpoint if a main weapon is mounted on a turret or Vice Versa, should the vehicle have no Main weapon, it may choose one of the following for the hull Hardpoint AND the Turret hard point, if it has one.
Heavy Stubber 5points
Heavy Bolter 10 points
Heavy Flamer 10 points
Autocannon 15points
Lascannon 20points


Sponsons:
These additional weapons are not Hardpoint weapons and may be included irrespective of what weapons, if any, are used on the Hardpoints.

Heavy Stubber 15points
Heavy Bolter 20points
Heavy Flamer 20points
Lascannon 30points


Obviously I'll include a selection of true upgrades like Searchlights and Dozer blades later, but I'd like to know how people find this to start.
How do various established patterns fit into this one?
How can the list be constructed better and is there any reasonable way of making the max armour all round option less of a no-brainer if it's even necessary.
C&C are obligatory :D stick up examples of good builds, bad builds and abusive builds, I'll appreciate any input on the points values as I damn near frazzled my brain trying to back-engineer them to fit existing tanks, I'm especially interested to hear how this fits FW tanks not covered in GW codexes.

The Guy
25-08-2008, 00:00
If they're a LaTD successor wouldn't they just steal other imperial tanks?

Although it's likel they would make their own. Have you tried looking into other sci fi settings to loot ideas? Command and conquer might be a good bet, with the flame tanks and all.

But what do you want your tanks to be more about? Speed, armour or firepower?

Cap'n Facebeard
25-08-2008, 03:19
You need a template unit like the Ork Looted Wagon or the Carnifex. Have a standard chassis that can be upgraded to match various styles. Something like a BS 3 Predator with a battlecannon or demolisher would match the tank hunter role well. Alternatively, something with pintle weapons and "wreckin ball" type upgrades would match the improv vehicle style.
Do you have the latest Ork codex? Andy Chambers' LatD had a lot of similiarity with the Orks so a Battlewagon / Looted Wagon style vehicle prob wouldn't rock your balance boat too badly.

Bathfinder
25-08-2008, 12:17
Why not look to the old vehicle design rules? Start with one or a few types och vehicles (chassis) and have all the weapons and gear as options. Perhaps including more armour and speed. Sure, as you say, it will be hundreds of options, but it is a good way to have generic vehicles.

Mozzamanx
25-08-2008, 14:15
Why not start it like a 13/12/10 transport. Give the option for armour panels, which increase the armour of 1 side by 1.

Maybe it can transport 20, but you can buy a Battlecannon which cuts that down to 10?

Then just have upgrade options. Maybe 2 weapon sites which can either be for combat (each gives 2 attacks and counts as a Dread CCW) or firepower (Up to Autocannon / Plasma Cannon effectiveness). Then just the option of 3-4 bolt on Heavy Bolters which can go anywhere.

Oh yeah, and it starts as a Tank, but you can turn it into a Walker for free- slower and no Tank shock, but can move easier and gains +1 attack.

Chem-Dog
25-08-2008, 17:50
If they're a LaTD successor wouldn't they just steal other imperial tanks?

Although it's likel they would make their own. Have you tried looking into other sci fi settings to loot ideas? Command and conquer might be a good bet, with the flame tanks and all.

Well a lot depends on the exact nature of a LatD force, renegade IG will probably have plenty of Imperial Guard Vehicles, but Chaos Worshipping humans aren't always ex-Imperials, it's entirely possible that a "LatD" force has never been under the rule of the Imperium and they don't hold Imperial Pattern warmachines, preferring to use locally constructed tanks, a particularly parochial sarmy might need to bastardise civilian vehicle in order have some type of armoured support.
I want to try to encompass all of these variables in a clear, concise single Unit entry.


Why not start it like a 13/12/10 transport. Give the option for armour panels, which increase the armour of 1 side by 1.

Maybe it can transport 20, but you can buy a Battlecannon which cuts that down to 10?

Then just have upgrade options. Maybe 2 weapon sites which can either be for combat (each gives 2 attacks and counts as a Dread CCW) or firepower (Up to Autocannon / Plasma Cannon effectiveness). Then just the option of 3-4 bolt on Heavy Bolters which can go anywhere.

Oh yeah, and it starts as a Tank, but you can turn it into a Walker for free- slower and no Tank shock, but can move easier and gains +1 attack.

This is kinda what I was aiming at, I started with a 13/11/10 chassis (as this would enable players to use "Captured" marine vehicles), transport, I don't think is necessary on an expensive HS tank (Could be an upgrade that's bought instead of a Ord weapon though.), there can be transports or lighter transport capable tanks for that.
Armour panels was also something I was considering, but I didn't want to simply say "Add a point of armour on F/S/R for X amount of points.

Sybaronde
26-08-2008, 15:55
Why not make it a wheeled tank? D:

http://www.geocities.com/cavscout031/vehicles/rooikat.jpg

Chem-Dog
29-08-2008, 05:05
First attempt added to the OP :) See what you can make of it :)

Hellebore
02-09-2008, 03:03
Perhaps start with the lowest common denominator and then make the weapons upgrades to this?

ie a Predator destructor starts out as a 13/11/10 tank with an autocannon in a turret, nothing else.

Perhaps two vehicle entries? One for a 'support' tank and another for an 'assault' tank, or MBT.

So starting from that 'blank' you can do the following:

Forsaken Assault Tank


Armour
BS F S R
Assault Tank 3 13 11 10


Type: Tank

Weapons: Turret mounted Twin-linked Heavy Stubbers

Options:
Upgrade Twin-linked heavy stubbers to one of the following:

Twin Liked Heavy Bolters for 10 points
Twin Linked Heavy Flamers for 10 points
Twin Linked Assault Cannons for 30 points
Inferno Cannon for 35 points


Take a hull mounted weapon from one of the following:

Heavy Stubber for 2 points
Heavy Bolter for 5 points
Heavy Flamer for 5 points


Take a pair of side sponsons with one of the following:

A pair of Heavy Stubbers for 5 points
A pair of Heavy Bolters for 10 points
A pair of Heavy Flamers for 10 points


Vehicle Upgrades:
Reinforced armour (+1 F/S) for 20 points


Reaper Support Tank


Armour
BS F S R
Support Tank 3 14 12 10


Type: Tank

Weapons: Turret mounted twin-linked autocannon

Options:
Upgrade twin-linked autocannon to one of the following:

Plasma cannon for 15 points
Demolisher Cannon for 45 points
Battle Cannon 40 points
Twin Linked Lascannons for 15 points


Take a hull mounted weapon from one of the following:

Autocannon for 10 points
Lascannon for 15 points


Take a pair of side sponsons with one of the following:

A pair of Plasma cannons for 25 points
A pair of Autocannons for 15 points
A pair of Lascannons for 40 points
A pair of multimeltas for 30 points



Vehicle Upgrades:
Reinforced Rear armour (+1 S/R) for 20 points

Hellebore