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View Full Version : Chaos Pact, Slaan, Underworld - Practically Official!!



Cirrus the Blue
25-08-2008, 06:28
So, now that the teams are pretty much good to go having been unanimously approved by the Blood Bowl Rules Committee, how many of you here on Warseer besides myself are planning on starting up teams for these fresh new lists? If you are, why did you choose the one you did?

- Cirrus

the anti santa
25-08-2008, 09:56
Sadly the 3 new teams won't be "officially official" until there are models for Slann. For some reason GW won't allow the other 2 teams to be official on their own, it has to be all 3 or none.

I believe there's talk of all 3 being allowed in non-GW NAF tournaments which would be cool. But we may have a long wait for any more Bloodbowl models to be released. :cries:

-fen-
25-08-2008, 10:19
Sadly the 3 new teams won't be "officially official" until there are models for Slann. For some reason GW won't allow the other 2 teams to be official on their own, it has to be all 3 or none.
It's not that.

The thing is, the Slaan team is the one which really doesn't have any suitable alternatives in the existing BB or WH/40K ranges. So they don't want the Slaan team to become official and provide a window for some other company to create complete 'frogman/folk' teams and piggy back off their product. Which is understandable really.

But if the BBRC put the Chaos Pact and Underworld teams actually into LRB6 then the Slaan team moves away into an area where it has almost no chance of ever making it in. Keeping it as an all or nothing increases the odds of Slaan becoming official and getting miniatures at some point.

So it's not GW who's made this choice, it's the BBRC (who are not GW).

guillaume
25-08-2008, 19:43
In fact, I have been playing a slann for a while now.

Model wise, I have used: kroot bodies and legs, with saurus lizardmen arms and heads (which I have shaved the back head piece).

Slann are the most fun to play. They really are different to play. Leap and Very Long Legs really are fun together, and Ag 4 catchers with L and VL are just a lot of fun.

They move fast and leap everywhere. A dauntless catcher with Ag4 can be a real cage breaker and a killer safety.

I started with 3 blitzers, 2 catchers and 6 lineman with 2 re-rolls and 5 FF although 2 blitzers and 7 lineman is 50K cheaper which would buy you another reroll.

Playing lizardmen, I know that kroxigors can be great, but somehow, I think that they dont really fit in. Slanns already have 3 types of players which can always be tailored to special role on the field.

But yes, slann, go for it, they are a lot of fun.

EmperorNorton
25-08-2008, 22:02
I could have happily lived without these three teams, although I have to admit that the Slann are somewhat interesting.
Not a fan of the other two at all, though.

Cirrus the Blue
26-08-2008, 06:43
Well, to be fair, each of these three teams did at one point used to be in the official rules set. They just weren't for most players' Blood Bowl careers since 3rd Edition. How come you don't like them though? Not that I'm disagreeing with your opinions, but instead just out of simple curiosity. It's not as though they haven't been mentioned numerous times in the background, the historical team examples being: the Chaos All-Stars, the Underworld Creepers, and the Lustria Croakers. :p I personally think it's about bloody time they brought out a proper Chaos team.

As for the Slaan teams, I have to say that they look like lots of fun to play and there really aren't any other teams that work in at all the same ways (as well with the other two teams) with the L/VLL basically making them perfect for pulling apart cages with little effort. :D I'll need to look into your idea of using Kroot figures as a base for the physique and give my own Slaan team a try.

I think the new teams are fantastic and am looking forward for when the NAF approves them for the rankings, too! I think that it'd be great fun to see these in actual tournament play for some fresh new additions to the pitch.

Hopefully Specialist Games will finnish off a Slaan team so that these can become official. Apparently though, they've got several plans of expanding many of their games in the upcoming year, so that's some good news at least. :)

- Cirrus

EmperorNorton
26-08-2008, 08:55
Well, to be fair, each of these three teams did at one point used to be in the official rules set. They just weren't for most players' Blood Bowl careers since 3rd Edition. How come you don't like them though? Not that I'm disagreeing with your opinions, but instead just out of simple curiosity. It's not as though they haven't been mentioned numerous times in the background, the historical team examples being: the Chaos All-Stars, the Underworld Creepers, and the Lustria Croakers. :p I personally think it's about bloody time they brought out a proper Chaos team.


I knew that there used to be a Slann team back in the day, but I didn't know the other two teams existed before as well.
That doesn't really change my opinion about them, though, but I may be unfair as I have a little trouble differentiating between the Warhammer universe and the Blood Bowl universe.
Considering game play I think Animostiy might make those teams unplayable or at least hard to play.
I don't see the benefit of the Underworld Team at all. It takes half a Goblin Team and half a Skaven Team, eliminates their main strengths (secret weapons and Gutter Runners, respectively) and adds Animosity on top. Goblins having access to mutations does not counterbalance that IMO and isn't really enough for me to make the team unique, although it admittedly opens some interesting modelling possibilities.
In the Chaos Pact Team I'm mainly disappointed in the Marauders, which are just boring. The many 0-1 choices give you lots of options, but although you get a bit of everything you don't get anything to define your play. The big guys are too expensive to make this a strength team and you don't really have any good options for handling the ball.
The Slann I like better, but they seem similar in style to the numerous Elf teams with the exception that their linemen are too cheap.

Marlow
26-08-2008, 08:56
I think Chaos Pact should have been merged with Chaos to make a more interesting team. Underworld Goblins could have been added to existing Skaven, Slann at least add something different.

Also I am not a fan of Animosity skill.

Cirrus the Blue
27-08-2008, 08:35
Animosity might be a pain in the ass, but I'm planning on playing around it entirely at that level. My Skaven player's only gonna be taking Block and Frenzy and won't be holding the ball 9 times out of 10 anyway, the Gobbo will only need to hold onto it for the 1-turn TD's hence won't need to pass, and my Dark Elf I'm turning into a ballcarrier, so he won't need to be throwing 'to' anyone 9 times of 10 either. :)

I agree on the fact they should've merged the Chaos team roster though to add the aspect of Beastmen and Warriors, (even one Warrior and a choice between Beastmen and Marauders would've worked, but on the aspect of Beastmen, all it takes is just 1 Mutation to get Horns and I'm using some of them in place of Marauder figures and a Slaaneshi Warrior conversion in place of the Dark Elf anyway, so that's not a massive problem for me at that level.) but I know why they didn't - due to balance purposes as Warriors are pretty darned strong, and Beastmen get the Strength on the Blitz, not to mention the team's already got 3 Big Guys and a dude with AG 4. :p Another thing I'm a bit disappointed about (but understand for the same reason as before) is the fact that the Chaos Pact list doesn't have access to any 'former' Chaos All-Star players such as Grashnack Blackhoof, Ripper Bolgrot (Troll), or Lord Borak. This, again, is due to balance purposes because having a Big Guy Cage that works how much more effectively than on an Ogre team backed up with players that aren't Snotlings would be kinda extremely cheezy.

And I agree to a point regarding the Marauders being boring, although only to a point. They're better than ordinary humans in the fact that they have access to Passing, Strength, and Mutations!! :D I'd say that this makes them pretty darned interesting in the long-run assuming you're playing them in an actual League as opposed to 1-off games. That's just how I feel about them, though. *shrug*

So long as you know how to play around Animosity, it should work out pretty great. Had a game and this actually worked for me without problems, so it's not that bad, especially if you're playing the Underworld team which has like.. 6 Skaven anyway making Animosity a bit of a minor setback as opposed to something that can cost games. You can still pass to a different player of the same race if the initial choice fails throwing to a different race.

Also, regarding the aspect of the new aspects of the Underworld team, the big part of this one is that it allows them extra chances of 1-turn TDs with the use of tossing Gobbos across the field which the original Skaven team couldn't ever do before. Not to mention, Mutations are much easier to take than on an ordinary Skaven team which is a plus, also the Troll can take them normally, too! I think it's a pretty solid and unique team! These are just my personal opinions though on the new teams and I'm bloody well stoked to see how my Chaos All-Stars progress in league play. :D

- Cirrus

Marlow
27-08-2008, 09:28
So long as you know how to play around Animosity, it should work out pretty great. Had a game and this actually worked for me without problems, so it's not that bad, especially if you're playing the Underworld team which has like..
It is a lot easier to avoid Animosity on the Pact team since Marauders do not have it. I would use Elf & Goblin as Catchers since they can dodge into the end zone and build the Marauders into Throwers & Blitzers with a few mutations. I would not even use the Skaven on my team.

Underworld is a bit harder since the actual Throwers have Animosity. It makes me wonder if it is even worth taking them at all...

Cirrus the Blue
27-08-2008, 22:28
Thing is though that the Skaven don't need to roll at all for Animosity if they're throwing to the other Skaven. With proper strategy and there being 6 Skaven on the team, this makes it pretty straightforward for passing I'd say, so long as you keep your Skaven relatively organized on the field from becoming too seperated when you need to in fact make a pass.

At that rate, I'd say that Animosity is actually more difficult to get around on the Pact team as there's nobody of the same race who has Animosity, meaning that passing with one of the 3 players who do have it should only ever be a last resort. If they fail the dice roll to pass, there's nobody else to pass to as opposed with the Underworld team having other options in case the diceroll for Animosity fails. Animosity only fails to work if the initial diceroll fails to pass to a different race AND there's nobody in range to pass to who is of the same race. Furthermore, you don't even need to roll for it if passing to a member of the same race to begin with. :)

- Cirrus

(edit) By no means am I telling anyone to like these teams, but I'm just giving reasons why I think they're great and why they're actually not nearly so bad as some people might already think.

Krootman
28-08-2008, 22:38
can you guys put a link up for this?

Cirrus the Blue
29-08-2008, 01:35
http://www.blood-bowl.net/LRB_PBBL/2007NewTeams.pdf

- Cirrus

guillaume
29-08-2008, 02:25
My beef with the new teams is that the underworld team is just a bit lame: skavens with goblins....meh.

The chaos pact team, there are at least a few more entries, but still, I think that they are just not that fun.

My experience is that players either like to play with strong teams (by either choosing all cheap linemen in a league, or by using lots of blitzers for one-off games) OR playing for fun with goblin teams with secret weapons and haflings...

Chaos pact and underworld, dont really fall within these two categories...they're just a bit of this, bit of that, nothing great, nothing fun...

The slann on the other hand: well you can max out on blitzers or linemen, and there are no other team like them.

Clearly the Slann should get new models, and should be the team to proceed to full officialness. Hooray for leaping!

Marlow
29-08-2008, 06:33
Thing is though that the Skaven don't need to roll at all for Animosity if they're throwing to the other Skaven. With proper strategy and there being 6 Skaven on the team
The problem I have with that stratagy is that with only 6 Skaven most of them are going to used for the cage protecting the Ball carrier. Goblins replace Gutter Runners on the team, if you are not using them to score it just makes the team into another boring running team...

For me the only thing Underworld has is easy access to Mutations (Normal rather than Double skill) and I would rather just play the odds with a standard Skaven team.


Chaos pact and underworld, dont really fall within these two categories...they're just a bit of this, bit of that, nothing great, nothing fun...
I think Pact are a fun team. What Chaos should have been! They have a nice variety of players with Marauders, Elf, Goblin and several Big Guys.

Cirrus the Blue
29-08-2008, 21:20
I see your point better now regarding the Underworld team having the tendency towards becoming a 'running' team. I still like the list though. :)

And I completely agree about the Chaos team! :D

All that aside, I'm pleased to hear that overall at least a couple of the new teams are being well received on here!

Now, since we've brought up reasons why or why we don't want to play 'with' the new teams, but what about playing against? Would anyone be opposed at having a match against a coach playing with one of the new teams?

- Cirrus

Marlow
30-08-2008, 07:24
Now, since we've brought up reasons why or why we don't want to play 'with' the new teams, but what about playing against? Would anyone be opposed at having a match against a coach playing with one of the new teams?
I have played them all at PBeM.

Slann are like a very oddly developed Wood Elf team. They lack the basic Blodge but are very mobile with Leap, and Diving Tackle slows down other fast opponents. GAS access on Blitzers makes them very easy to turn into Wardancers or Witch Elf style players. Personally I would rather put DT and Leap on my Elves, but that is just me.

Underworld have a few tricks, like Goblin Bomb and multipul Mutations players that you would not expect from a Skaven team. Overall though they just seem to be a slightly weak Skaven team. Most of the time a MA 9 Runner can go around and end up just as well placed as a MA 6 Goblin ignoring TZ with Stunty to dodge through.

With Three Big Guys Pact I have found the hardest team to play against. Sometimes the Grunts just do not roll 1's and you get pounded, and it makes the team seem over the top. Overall though with its lack of reliable high Strength players and poor starting skills (almost none) I think the team is balanced. Once I get a Minotour figure I will run the team in our League at some point.

Cirrus the Blue
01-09-2008, 04:48
That's a pretty good rundown of the teams. :) I've since had a couple of 1-off games using the Chaos Pact list I've got with terriffic results! Both were against powerful teams to begin with (Undead and High Elves), but even though the games were very tight, each one was only 1 TD difference.

The first one against Undead I lost due to a streak of increasingly bad luck over the course of 2 turns in the second half, but it could've easily been a tie if the dice didn't decide to start hating me. :p The second game against the High Elves was looking grim (2-0) up until I started knocking out his players at the end of the first half and won by 1 TD. :D

It's tough to find a Strength team in the teams list that can hold it's own so well right off the hop besides say for the Orcs and I'm very pleased with how the Pact roster plays. :) The negative traits on the Big Guys love to roll 1's for me, but with the rest of the team backing them up, it works pretty smoothly overall. Sort of like a balanced out Ogre team instead of having 6 beefy Ogres and a bunch of measly little snotlings, you get 3 Big Guys and the rest of a team that can actually hold it's own in a sticky situation (or when the Troll forgets why he's in the middle of the field). You'll have loads of fun playing with them once you get that Minotaur!

- Cirrus

Darkson
03-09-2008, 01:48
It should be noted that the Underworld team was planned to have the same w/l percentage as the other "stunty" teams (Halflings, Goblins and Ogres). It's actually turned out in the playtesting to be about the level of Vampires.

Me, I love the Underworld team (Two-headed, Horned, Claw goblins are fun!:D), and I'm happy to have the Slann back, though I personally don't see myself coaching a team of them anytime soon. However, if the Chaos Pact team got pulled, I'd be happy - it's only there because Jervis wants it, as he loves the Chaos All Stars.