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crouchingotter
26-08-2008, 19:55
Good evening all! I require your assistance.

There's a voice in my head that keeps suggesting I have a go at doing a Space Marine army. It's pointed me towards Black Templars and Dark Angels before but I never got them off the ground. With the new Space Marines Codex, I'm looking to have a proper bash at the idea.

Crimson Fists have grabbed my attention but I know very little about them except that they have red hands and something bad happened to them on Rynn's World involving Orks.

I wanted to ask the following:

1) Do the Crimson Fists have different companies? If so, what markings distinguish one from the next?

2) How do they distinguish one tactical squad from the other ?

3) Aside from Scouts having no red hands, regular Marines having a red left hand and Veterans having both hands of the crimson variety.... are there any other differences between the ranks? Helmet colours? Shoulder trims etc...

4) What are the numbers for the Crimson Fists these days? How many marines are in this decimated company? How many Dreadnoughts? What about Rhinos? Drop pods? Chaplains? Librarians? Commanders? Captains? etc...

5) Do any of you know a good way (other than Wikipedia) of reading about The Battle For Rynn's World?

Well I think that's everything that I was looking to ask. If anyone can help with any of the above, I'll be most grateful.

Many thanks!

John

McMullet
26-08-2008, 23:44
First off, good choice of chapter to collect (even if it is starting to look like the next big thing... :cries: )

The CF follow the Codex Astartes quite diligently. The only unusual feature of their organisation is the 1st Company: It is 128 Marines strong not 100, and the Captain of the 1st is also the Chapter Master. This tradition dates back to the Crusade of Riteous Liberation (I think it was called) when the CF were reduced to 128 strong.

Aside from the red hands, they do not show company or squad markings - no coloured rims or even numbers for the company (according to Insignium Astartes). Squads are differentiated by squad numbers as normal, as far as I know. I think the Sergeants should still have a red skull to mark them out.

Numbers-wise, their Index Astartes entry suggests there were less than 100 marines after the incidnt on Rynn's World. Supposedly there is now close on half a chapter, 4-500 marines "now", though this is only from Crimson Tears, which is a Black Library novel.

A good chunk of the chapter, notably specialists like Techmarines, would have been in orbit at the time, to repel the Ork fleet, so it's reasonable to assume they still have a good complement of Librarians and the like. Also, I guess there would be Terminators ready for boarding actions...

All in all, most vehicles and equipment would probably be easier to replace than Marines, so I would expect the Fists to be well-equipped with vehicles and weapons. Whether the chapter's Dreadnoughts would have been deployed in preparation for the attack or destroyed in the accident is uncertain, but Dreads are cool so let's assume they survived...

crouchingotter
27-08-2008, 06:40
Wow.

Thank you for taking the time to write all that! That's helped a lot actually.

I think I'm guilty of jumping on the CF bandwagon due to their increased exposure. The article in UK White Dwarf #399 made me look at them. Then the Tale of Four Gamers that they're currently doing in White Dwarf also caught my attention and the new miniature for Pedro Kandol is simply awesome.

Anyway.... thanks again!

crouchingotter
27-08-2008, 07:03
The only unusual feature of their organisation is the 1st Company: It is 128 Marines strong not 100, and the Captain of the 1st is also the Chapter Master. This tradition dates back to the Crusade of Riteous Liberation (I think it was called) when the CF were reduced to 128 strong.

The Captain/Chapter Master being Pedro Kantor, right?



Numbers-wise, their Index Astartes entry suggests there were less than 100 marines after the incidnt on Rynn's World. Supposedly there is now close on half a chapter, 4-500 marines "now", though this is only from Crimson Tears, which is a Black Library novel.

Can you recommend this novel? Is it worth a read?


A good chunk of the chapter, notably specialists like Techmarines, would have been in orbit at the time, to repel the Ork fleet, so it's reasonable to assume they still have a good complement of Librarians and the like. Also, I guess there would be Terminators ready for boarding actions...

Are they like other chapters that follow the Codex Astartes in that the Terminator armour is only used by the 1st Company vets?

Thanks again!

rickie8437
27-08-2008, 07:43
good luck with this you have picked one of the best and well writen about chapters other than smurfs, i do think that CF will soon be the big chapter which is right as they did use to be on the front cover of rogue trader and 3ed space marine codex

as for tac marking i still think they have codex marking just like smurfs but no company colour, thats not saying you cant do it, as for dreads im sure i read that most if not all were in the keep when it got hit by the orks

tanks and the like would have been deployed but most would have been killed or looted by the orks as only the 100 marines plus chapter master and his little band were in the city

the novel that you should read in called Crimson Tears its the third book in the Soul Drinkers line by Ben Counter great book and some good fluff on the crimson fists

Chimpeh
27-08-2008, 10:59
There is a very good article on Crimson Fists here (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=137911).

Regarding your questions:

1) Kantor is indeed the Chapter Master. He has new rules in the forthcoming SM codex, which reportedly make him very good (e.g. Str 4, AP4, Assault 4 Storm Bolter and Sterngaurd Vets count as scoring).

3) Yes. Terminator armour is only issued to first company veterans. It's worth noting however that the CF's fortress monastery exploded during the Rynn's World incident. Therefore it is highly likely that CFs have a much depleted number of Terminator suits available to them. You might be best sticking with Sternguard vets for elite choices.

Leftenant Gashrog
27-08-2008, 11:30
3) the IA article shows a veteran sergeant with a blue helmet with a gold skull & laurel on its forehead.

johnmcl7
27-08-2008, 20:39
Can you recommend this novel? Is it worth a read?


I think it's enjoyable enough although the Crimson Fists only come into it in the third book and you need to read the previous two books. I've just recently finished the Soul Drinkers Omnibus and Chapter Wars, while I don't think the author takes as much advantage of the interesting situation as he could do. In general it's a little different to the other Space Marin novels and if you're keen to read a bit of the Crimson Fists then it's definitely worth a read.

I'm not a particularly impartial source at the moment as I'm reading as much WH40K as I can but definitely though the Soul Drinkers were stronger than some of the other omnibuses.

John

McMullet
27-08-2008, 20:52
Crimson Tears is a decent read but it does focus on the Soul Drinkers more than the Fists.

It's hard to say how many Terminators would be left - they are an ancient chapter so they should have had a lot beforehand, and, as I mentioned earlier, it is reasonable to assume there would have been a lot in orbit (teleportation from ships is part of what termies are for, after all).

crouchingotter
28-08-2008, 06:02
It's hard to say how many Terminators would be left - they are an ancient chapter so they should have had a lot beforehand, and, as I mentioned earlier, it is reasonable to assume there would have been a lot in orbit (teleportation from ships is part of what termies are for, after all).

I guess that all I wanted to be sure of with that initial line of questioning was that it was safe to build up a standard SM force and paint them all dark blue with red hands. Outside of special characters from other chapters, am I safe to say that there is nothing else in the SM Codex (be it current or the stuff rumoured to be in the new one) which the Crimson Fists would simply not have access to?

McMullet
28-08-2008, 10:01
Oh no. The beauty of their background is that you can use it to justify pretty much any army composition you like - lots of scouts for n arm themed to just after the incident, lots of dreads for just before, it's really down to you.