PDA

View Full Version : The WorldEaters...Gone?



Johnator
27-08-2008, 14:07
I am sorry if this has come up and I know that there are a lot of other flaws to dwell on in my beloved 40K universe but I always think about how the World Eaters just should not exist anymore. Here are my reasons.

1. All they are interested in is spilling blood. Not recruiting. Not preserving the legacy of their chapter. Blood for the Blood God. That is it. I honestly don't picture the World Eaters even TRYING to make more World Eaters at all instead they are fighting or getting ready to fight.

2. They fight even each other. Kharn is of course the prime example of this. But I can easily see any berserker type World Eater just start ripping into his allies.

3. Their battle strategy. They basically charge across the field and get into combat. This is hardly a life-preserving philosophy so I picture their casualties being higher than other chapters.

Put all this together and after 10,000 years I honestly don't think ANY of them would exist except for Kharn and Angron. Any reasons you can think of for their continued existence? I am seriously curious what you think.

Ravensgard
27-08-2008, 14:23
You make sense, but I think that there are some individuals on some worlds who are guided by khorne to become a world eater. Leading them to a battlefield were some world eaters were deafeted and now they take up these arms and armour and become new members of the world eaters.

Or Khorne takes his chosen and trows them on the planet of the world eaters in the Eye of terror were they get their equipment.

Maybe they recognize new potential "soulmates" for their legion or are impressed when a mere mortal has slain hundreds of people in close combat.

abasio
27-08-2008, 14:24
I'm sure some of space marines in many chapters go berserk & love the kill a little too much turning to chaos. Maybe these marines migrate into the World Eaters legion?

malkavianmadman
27-08-2008, 14:29
Or it could just be that angaron has a lil forethought and has 'hired' good old Mr. bile to make more of them. but thats just my 2 cents

Lord Inquisitor
27-08-2008, 14:32
Fundamentally, there have been many different incarnations and perspectives on the World Eaters. However, to try and justify their existance...


1. All they are interested in is spilling blood. Not recruiting. Not preserving the legacy of their chapter. Blood for the Blood God. That is it. I honestly don't picture the World Eaters even TRYING to make more World Eaters at all instead they are fighting or getting ready to fight.
They aren't just interested in spilling blood. Maybe the most insane like Kharn, but they can't just run around screaming and chopping off heads. They are cultists, they will be recruiting new cultists. Remember that Khorne can embody a twisted martial honour as well. They must be recruiting - the idea of Khorne-worshipping demented apothecaries that turn recruits into psychopaths is a cool one!

Now, they do like a bit of blood-spillage, don't get me wrong, but most of them at least must be able to contain that until they get into battle. Once in battle, of course, they often descend into a blood-spilling frenzy.


2. They fight even each other. Kharn is of course the prime example of this. But I can easily see any berserker type World Eater just start ripping into his allies.
Again, this is something that isn't necessarily the case. Kharn, yes, but he's just nuts. Sure, World Eaters fight one-another but then so do the Emperor's Children. Members within a warband are not going to fight one-another except in certain situations. Of course, in the throes of the blood-frenzy, they might hack into allies, but that's not going to happen outside of bloody combat.


3. Their battle strategy. They basically charge across the field and get into combat. This is hardly a life-preserving philosophy so I picture their casualties being higher than other chapters.
This is where the background is somewhat contradictory. I think it's safe to say that they don't just charge across the battlefield. It isn't clear that they definately don't have any fire-support, just because bezerkers can't have big guns doesn't ipso facto mean that the whole World Eaters Legion don't use guns bigger than a pistol - certainly they have armour that can give covering fire, plus they can always have allies like obliterators. Dreadclaws and aircraft can drop them right among the enemy. Just because they like hand-to-hand doesn't mean they are stupid about it.

Personally, I see them as being similar to any bloodythirsty chapter. They will act with intelligence and deploy only in the most favourful or glorious assaults, using supporting formations, heavy armour, daemon engines or cultists to allow their marines to close and flush the enemy out in bloody combat. There's no requirement for them to line up on the field and run across!

reds8n
27-08-2008, 14:33
I I honestly don't picture the World Eaters even TRYING to make more World Eaters at all instead they are fighting or getting ready to fight.



Actually this comes up in an old short story.

Long story short and hopefully without spoiling too much, the crux of the story revolves around an infamous World Eater apothecary and ...

his plan to get his hands on the geneseed of the defeated marines

I guess they might also deal/bargain with Fabius, Abaddon etc for geneseed and/or slaves/recruits.

That said.... yeah.. there does seem to be a lot of them. From memory the current chaos codex mentions something like 50,000 bezerkers helping conquer a system.

Guess it's Chaos performing some form of time wibbliness. :)

Lord Inquisitor
27-08-2008, 14:48
You need to put a [/spoiler] tag on the end of that! ;)

Shas'o Lar
27-08-2008, 14:54
Another fact to be considered - in warp, things like "time" or "space" is really hard to define. And seeing how many of the current marines are actually *the* traitorous members that took part in the Horus Heresy, it may be that for them, it has passed barely a few years. So, what for Galaxy is a few centuries of peace, for the CSM may be just a free weekend to catch a breath and polish the gear.

Besides, the CSM incursions aren't as often as one would think, if it wasn't the case, then the Inquisition wouldn't be restricting the info on Chaos. When an incursion happens once every few hundred years, then yeah, we can close down that IG regiment and a couple million of civilians so that they don't spread the word. But if the attacks would appear every weekend all across the Galaxy, then even the almighty Inquisition wouldn't be able to stop all the rumours and information.

ChaosTicket
27-08-2008, 14:57
Simple thing is that World Eaters are not stupid. Not all followers of Khorne change headlong into an enemies guns.

World Eater Apothecaries created new World Eaters, using captured Progenoid glands from other astartes, or having Fabius Bile create it for them.

Fabius Bile is the prime creator of new Traitor Astartes, but each of the Legions and traitor Chapters also have Apothecaries to create new ones.

Tonberry
27-08-2008, 15:02
3. Their battle strategy. They basically charge across the field and get into combat. This is hardly a life-preserving philosophy so I picture their casualties being higher than other chapters.


Page 49 of the new Chaos codex has a short in which a squad of Berzerkers take cover in a ruined cathedral, showing that they are not all lemmings who charge blindly into fire.

Iuris
27-08-2008, 15:24
You mean the "Khorne save us! Kharn!" story? I loved that one :)

Anyway: the chaos backlines are much less destructive than it would seem. You get more barbaric versions of normal societies. Several demon worlds showed functional societies. Even the one in the third Grey knight book - you get a lot of combat, but it's not ALL combat.

Books often make MORE sense than 40K the game :)

pookie
27-08-2008, 15:24
about the WE and recruitment:

They dont need new Gene seed to creat a Zerk, all they need is a Marine ( of any flavour ) who happens to follow Khorne ( or is willing to convert ), the creation of a Zerk is down to surgery, not down to there Gene Seed.

a piece of fluff indecates that captured Marines will be forced to dual with Zerks, and if they win, can be offered the opportunity of joing the warband, if they refuse, well then its fight on again, until they either relent and join or are killed.

Tonberry
27-08-2008, 15:46
Surely they could convert any marine, no-matter their willingness into a Berzerker. Take an Ulltramarine, mess with his brain until he is a frothing madman bent on a destrucive rage, keep it in a cage until needed then point it at the enemy - instant Berzerker.

Ubermensch Commander
27-08-2008, 16:29
I am sorry if this has come up and I know that there are a lot of other flaws to dwell on in my beloved 40K universe but I always think about how the World Eaters just should not exist anymore. Here are my reasons.

1. All they are interested in is spilling blood. Not recruiting. Not preserving the legacy of their chapter. Blood for the Blood God. That is it. I honestly don't picture the World Eaters even TRYING to make more World Eaters at all instead they are fighting or getting ready to fight.

2. They fight even each other. Kharn is of course the prime example of this. But I can easily see any berserker type World Eater just start ripping into his allies.

3. Their battle strategy. They basically charge across the field and get into combat. This is hardly a life-preserving philosophy so I picture their casualties being higher than other chapters.

Put all this together and after 10,000 years I honestly don't think ANY of them would exist except for Kharn and Angron. Any reasons you can think of for their continued existence? I am seriously curious what you think.


Yep. This is where the whole "All World Eaters are Beserkers..." line falls apart. Berserkers are those lost on the path of Khorne and at Skalthrax the World Eaters Legion tore itself apart and splintered into warbands.
But if all WE are berserkers....what about the psycho surgeons who make their way to Abaddon or make new Zerks for the WE? Who repairs their armor and weapons? Flies their ships through the warp? After all they cant Fleet to the nearest planet. What about the Predators in the WE army?

In older fluff the WE were not COMPLETE lunatics. The latest ruleset for Chaos mirrors this concept, unlike the 3.5 rules which sometimes had Zerkers hacking at Land Raiders they couldn't hurt or chasing after skimmers like psychotic power armored dogs chasing a car. They all turned to Khorne, but not all to the same degree. A berserker is one lost on the path to his god. Others just PRAISE Khorne and ask his favor in battle. These are the "saner"(everything being relative) members of the Legion.
Ergo: You have Khornate Terminators and Havoc Squads.


Basically, you are correct given that interpretation of the WE fluff. If we take the view that "All World Eaters are Berserkers" , in the sense that all of them are Khorne Berserkers the unit type from the various Chaos Codices, it somewhat shatters suspension of disbelief that such a force could exist for long without being wiped out. Their apothcaries, weapon smiths, fleet masters, etc would all be too busy screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD and wailing away at one another with chain axes to be factor in 40k.

Taking it as more of a "The whole Legion fell to the worship of Khorne and some went COMPLETELY nuts like Kharne while others didnt fall as far into madness"(note: AS FAR...they are all still good and crazy.) is a bit easier to believe.

Johnator
27-08-2008, 23:06
You make sense, but I think that there are some individuals on some worlds who are guided by khorne to become a world eater. Leading them to a battlefield were some world eaters were deafeted and now they take up these arms and armour and become new members of the world eaters.

Or Khorne takes his chosen and trows them on the planet of the world eaters in the Eye of terror were they get their equipment.

Maybe they recognize new potential "soulmates" for their legion or are impressed when a mere mortal has slain hundreds of people in close combat.

I REALLY like this idea. Quite creative and I can see this as a possibility.

Johnator
27-08-2008, 23:09
Fundamentally, there have been many different incarnations and perspectives on the World Eaters. However, to try and justify their existance...


They aren't just interested in spilling blood. Maybe the most insane like Kharn, but they can't just run around screaming and chopping off heads. They are cultists, they will be recruiting new cultists. Remember that Khorne can embody a twisted martial honour as well. They must be recruiting - the idea of Khorne-worshipping demented apothecaries that turn recruits into psychopaths is a cool one!

Now, they do like a bit of blood-spillage, don't get me wrong, but most of them at least must be able to contain that until they get into battle. Once in battle, of course, they often descend into a blood-spilling frenzy.


Again, this is something that isn't necessarily the case. Kharn, yes, but he's just nuts. Sure, World Eaters fight one-another but then so do the Emperor's Children. Members within a warband are not going to fight one-another except in certain situations. Of course, in the throes of the blood-frenzy, they might hack into allies, but that's not going to happen outside of bloody combat.


This is where the background is somewhat contradictory. I think it's safe to say that they don't just charge across the battlefield. It isn't clear that they definately don't have any fire-support, just because bezerkers can't have big guns doesn't ipso facto mean that the whole World Eaters Legion don't use guns bigger than a pistol - certainly they have armour that can give covering fire, plus they can always have allies like obliterators. Dreadclaws and aircraft can drop them right among the enemy. Just because they like hand-to-hand doesn't mean they are stupid about it.

Personally, I see them as being similar to any bloodythirsty chapter. They will act with intelligence and deploy only in the most favourful or glorious assaults, using supporting formations, heavy armour, daemon engines or cultists to allow their marines to close and flush the enemy out in bloody combat. There's no requirement for them to line up on the field and run across!

You do make some interesting points. I guess the fluff kind of works against a lot of things since the only cases I seem to read about (outside of HH before the betrayal) is basically frothing madman who do nothing but kill. I recall a berserker story where a Khorne warrior turns his axe on himself to basically spill more blood (can't remember the reference).

Johnator
27-08-2008, 23:09
Actually this comes up in an old short story.

Long story short and hopefully without spoiling too much, the crux of the story revolves around an infamous World Eater apothecary and ...

his plan to get his hands on the geneseed of the defeated marines

I guess they might also deal/bargain with Fabius, Abaddon etc for geneseed and/or slaves/recruits.

That said.... yeah.. there does seem to be a lot of them. From memory the current chaos codex mentions something like 50,000 bezerkers helping conquer a system.

Guess it's Chaos performing some form of time wibbliness. :)

Do you happen to know the name of the story? I like any tales of Chaos Marines that I haven't read yet and this one sounds pretty interesting.

Johnator
27-08-2008, 23:13
Yep. This is where the whole "All World Eaters are Beserkers..." line falls apart. Berserkers are those lost on the path of Khorne and at Skalthrax the World Eaters Legion tore itself apart and splintered into warbands.
But if all WE are berserkers....what about the psycho surgeons who make their way to Abaddon or make new Zerks for the WE? Who repairs their armor and weapons? Flies their ships through the warp? After all they cant Fleet to the nearest planet. What about the Predators in the WE army?

In older fluff the WE were not COMPLETE lunatics. The latest ruleset for Chaos mirrors this concept, unlike the 3.5 rules which sometimes had Zerkers hacking at Land Raiders they couldn't hurt or chasing after skimmers like psychotic power armored dogs chasing a car. They all turned to Khorne, but not all to the same degree. A berserker is one lost on the path to his god. Others just PRAISE Khorne and ask his favor in battle. These are the "saner"(everything being relative) members of the Legion.
Ergo: You have Khornate Terminators and Havoc Squads.


Basically, you are correct given that interpretation of the WE fluff. If we take the view that "All World Eaters are Berserkers" , in the sense that all of them are Khorne Berserkers the unit type from the various Chaos Codices, it somewhat shatters suspension of disbelief that such a force could exist for long without being wiped out. Their apothcaries, weapon smiths, fleet masters, etc would all be too busy screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD and wailing away at one another with chain axes to be factor in 40k.

Taking it as more of a "The whole Legion fell to the worship of Khorne and some went COMPLETELY nuts like Kharne while others didnt fall as far into madness"(note: AS FAR...they are all still good and crazy.) is a bit easier to believe.

I COMPLETELY agree. The information as I interpret it seems to indicate thus and every case I read about depicts them all as frothing madmen. It does make sense that they WOULDN'T exist without some kind of er....more sane Chaos Marines that are turned to Khorne. I guess logic dictates making some assumptions out of the fluff but based off what I have read I just haven't seen any cases yet but would really love it if they did. The closest I have seen so far is Skraal in Battle for the Abyss but that was before the main events of the Heresy.

CHOOBER SNIPES
27-08-2008, 23:51
To me, it seems like, as said before, there are a bunch of crazy guys, and some more sane ones too. My idea is that, being superhumans, they are very smart, and so realize that to maximize their blood spilling potential, they would use tactics. The more "sane" ones would use cunning and strong tactics to allow the most blood to spill, as this is their goal; ie they want the most blood spilled possible, so they use ALL of their resources (for the "sane" ones this also includes incredible strategic sense as well as combat awesomeness) and are able to do better in a battle than you would think a raving band of lunatics charging across an open field would do.

Meathook
28-08-2008, 00:19
Next time just edit a post to include all the stuff rather then making four. But I remember an old White Dwarf where it had like a 6 page story with Kharn murdering up a pile of Slaanesh cultists and a champion,an even then he's still semi coherant and fueled by thought. Albeit a though pattern to kill as many people as possible.

I really think that everyone is taking Kharn as the model for all World Eaters. I mean, we have a lot of the Warseer forums who have brought up counter points in just the fiction including World Eaters, this should be more then enough to help "change" their image from lemmings to something a little more akin to a fighting force.

Firaxin
28-08-2008, 01:13
You make sense, but I think that there are some individuals on some worlds who are guided by khorne to become a world eater. Leading them to a battlefield were some world eaters were deafeted and now they take up these arms and armour and become new members of the world eaters.

Or Khorne takes his chosen and trows them on the planet of the world eaters in the Eye of terror were they get their equipment.

Maybe they recognize new potential "soulmates" for their legion or are impressed when a mere mortal has slain hundreds of people in close combat.


I REALLY like this idea. Quite creative and I can see this as a possibility.

Unfortunately, normal humans can't just be lead to a field of battle and pick up shattered chaos armor to become space marines. There's the whole long bioaugmentation/geneseed part that they're missing.

Also, what's with the quadruple post Johnator? :confused: You know there's a multiquote feature, right?

Arkhar
28-08-2008, 07:47
Most people take world eaters for brainless warriors that just want to kill in combat. They're more than that but I guess it´s difficult to understand :D.

Ddraiglais
28-08-2008, 08:22
about the WE and recruitment:

They dont need new Gene seed to creat a Zerk, all they need is a Marine ( of any flavour ) who happens to follow Khorne ( or is willing to convert ), the creation of a Zerk is down to surgery, not down to there Gene Seed.

Surgery isn't even required. All that's required is an individual really likes killing (in combat of course). After a few decades or centuries, said individual follows the path of Khorne. Eventually he'll be lost to the insanity of being a bezerker. Of course not all bezerkers are WE, but some probably find WE groups and join up.

pookie
28-08-2008, 13:57
Surgery isn't even required. All that's required is an individual really likes killing (in combat of course). After a few decades or centuries, said individual follows the path of Khorne. Eventually he'll be lost to the insanity of being a bezerker. Of course not all bezerkers are WE, but some probably find WE groups and join up.

Surgery is required its what seperates a Zerk from a normal Khornate Marine.

Hrw-Amen
28-08-2008, 14:35
Perhaps for those deamed worthy Khorne does something similar to what happens with Lucious and just at the moment of death spirits them away to a secret World Eater resurection planet in the EoT or somewhere, even if it is only in spirit and they get stuffed into a new body, maybe a cultist is sacrificed to the marines spirit so that they can inhabit the body? They get to go on a fight another day, obviously after undergoing the transformation back into marine form, no doubt a gift from Khorne.

pookie
28-08-2008, 15:24
@ Hrw-Amen - although could be true, it isnt backed up in the Fluff, which admitadly is a little Lacking when it comes to recruitment.

personally i can see it being a trial by combat type thing, the WE being the pinicle of what some Khornate Marines aspire to, maybe they sware oaths of loyalty to Angron or undergo trial by combat ( or more probable both ), before being able to join the WE, if trial by combat is used, maybe they are gifted the slain WE equipment etc as a prize, and if not currentlya Zerk they undergo the surgery needed to transform them from Uber Killing machine into Uber Loon Killing Machine.

Whitehorn
28-08-2008, 15:48
Things to consider:
They don't just kill 24/7. These guys need to eat, drink, pee...

They are not an organisation any more - there wouldn't be any typical marine creation because World Eaters are now splintered warbands.

It's been stated that marines turn to chaos every day. Humans too. Anyone can turn to Chaos at a whim, so there's one source for their ranks.

The World Eaters were a legion - anything up to 40,000 strong before they turned to Chaos. They have a small size advantage over 1,000 strong chapters. Hardly rare :)

Burning Star IV
28-08-2008, 16:16
You mean the "Khorne save us! Kharn!" story? I loved that one :)


So did I. It always struck me as funny that someone would ask Khorne to save them. If Khorne heard that prayer, his reaction was probably something like "HA! YOU FIGHT AND YOU DIE! SKUUUULLLLZZZZ OM NOM NOM!"

but OT: World eaters, though my least favorite legion, have my utmost respect. The reason they aren't all gone is that they're too mean to die out entirely. Yep. Too mean.

heretic
28-08-2008, 16:32
So did I. It always struck me as funny that someone would ask Khorne to save them. If Khorne heard that prayer, his reaction was probably something like "HA! YOU FIGHT AND YOU DIE! SKUUUULLLLZZZZ OM NOM NOM!"

The "light" path of Khorne is more of warrior skill and battle, not just mindless, mass slaughter... at least not back in the day.

Burning Star IV
28-08-2008, 17:03
The "light" path of Khorne is more of warrior skill and battle, not just mindless, mass slaughter... at least not back in the day.

I'm aware, but thats not nearly as comical.

Ddraiglais
28-08-2008, 17:19
Surgery is required its what seperates a Zerk from a normal Khornate Marine.

There is fluff that would suggest otherwise.

reds8n
28-08-2008, 17:37
Do you happen to know the name of the story? I like any tales of Chaos Marines that I haven't read yet and this one sounds pretty interesting.


Took some digging this ! Tale is called "Apothecary's Honour" by Simon Jowett. Printed in the Dark Imperium collection way back in 2001.

Long sold out/out of print I'm afraid.

Industrial Propaganda
28-08-2008, 17:41
Well the World Eaters legion still exist.
They are split into many different bands but the 4 greatest are :

- Angron's Chosen, under the direct orders of their Primarch.
- Kossolax the Foresworn's warband.
- Lord Skckalick's Elite.
- Han's Kho'Ren's Skulltakers.

Those are the 4 greatest World Eaters warbands. Then come all the other small ones.

Khârn isn't really anymore with the World Eaters. Once the left hand of Angron, he is now just the favourite Berserker of Khorne. He doesn't wear anymore the shoulder pad of his Legion too. He is the Traitor.

pookie
29-08-2008, 09:44
There is fluff that would suggest otherwise.

out of intrest, where can i read this fluff?

TheRedAngel
29-08-2008, 11:55
.. there does seem to be a lot of them. From memory the current chaos codex mentions something like 50,000 bezerkers helping conquer a system.

Take an Ulltramarine, mess with his brain until he is a frothing madman bent on a destrucive rage, keep it in a cage until needed then point it at the enemy - instant Berzerker.Just remember: Most WEs are Berserkers, but not all Berserkers are WEs, not by a long shot.


I recall a berserker story where a Khorne warrior turns his axe on himself to basically spill more blood (can't remember the reference).It's in the story about Kharn assaulting a Slaneesh temple together with a bunch of WEs.
One of these is wounded mortally and decapitates himself for the glory of Khorne.

jipimus
29-08-2008, 12:38
Is the world eaters geneseed not quite stable? I always thought it was the brain implants that them a bit irritable. Could the WE apoth's not harvest own geneseed after the Bezerkers have calmed down.

pookie
29-08-2008, 13:26
Just remember: Most WEs are Berserkers, but not all Berserkers are WEs, not by a long shot.


slightly wrong, ALL WE are Zerks, not 'most'.


It's in the story about Kharn assaulting a Slaneesh temple together with a bunch of WEs.
One of these is wounded mortally and decapitates himself for the glory of Khorne.

its a short story in Inferno - between issues 1-6 iirc, although not sure which, i love the Kill Counter he has in that story!

Tonberry
29-08-2008, 13:42
its a short story in Inferno - between issues 1-6 iirc, although not sure which, i love the Kill Counter he has in that story!

It's also featured in the short story book 'Dark Imperium', under the title of 'The Wrath of Kharn'.

Faustburg
29-08-2008, 13:57
out of intrest, where can i read this fluff?

You can't, really... it is just pretentious people who like to pretend they know the old fluff and claim they have read that "Khorne used to be about martial dicipline and GW have dumbed it down to just berserkery nowadays", when the actual background, from Slaves to Darkness and on has always been that while Khorne is the God of all forms of battle (having long ranged war machines to pound the enemy into the ground, giving technological weapons to medieval level champions, and being worshipped in his aspect of disciplined soldier by the Khornate Storm Boyz ork renegades), his most faithful believers know that anything other than mindless butchery and the prevail of the strongest is really just distortions of his wishes...


As for needing surgery... well, it could be said that it was the Dark age of technology, outlawed, "aggro-chips" implanted in their brains that made Angron and his warriors susceptible to Khorne and becoming Berzerkers in hte end, but I doubt it is neccecary to make a Berzerker, just usefull...

If possible, when harvesting Gene seed of a fallen brother, a WE apothecary (available in the original RoC list from 1988, if truthfullness to origins is in doubt...) would likely take the bionic modifications out as well, for use with new recruits that has shown exceptional promise. He is going cut off the fallen warriors head and stick it on a pole in supplication to the blood god anyway, so why not take the extra moment needed to bring out the pliers and yank the chip out first... :)

Soupcat
29-08-2008, 14:13
While I am not the most learned of World Eaters fluff, I don't believe that that the lemming charge charge and more charge is completely correct. Even bloodletters, the embodiment of khornes rage are stated to be the most organized of all the deamons. Moving in formations until they hit the enemy lines. So if bloodletters can I dont see why beszerkers would do nothing but rage. Im sure they rage alot... like 80% of the time would not be suprising but I do think that the charging head long image is slightly wrong

Ubermensch Commander
29-08-2008, 16:40
You can't, really... it is just pretentious people who like to pretend they know the old fluff and claim they have read that "Khorne used to be about martial dicipline and GW have dumbed it down to just berserkery nowadays", when the actual background, from Slaves to Darkness and on has always been that while Khorne is the God of all forms of battle (having long ranged war machines to pound the enemy into the ground, giving technological weapons to medieval level champions, and being worshipped in his aspect of disciplined soldier by the Khornate Storm Boyz ork renegades), his most faithful believers know that anything other than mindless butchery and the prevail of the strongest is really just distortions of his wishes...


Wait, so doesnt that just prove exactly what the argument is, that there are those on the Path of Khorne who ARE lunatic lemming charge ******(Berserkers) and those that AREN'T dumber than two bags of steroid charged bricks with chains axes(those that USE long range weaponry etc?)

Ddraiglais
29-08-2008, 17:09
out of intrest, where can i read this fluff?

For starters try Storm of Iron. One of the backstories is the descent of 2nd companies' leader into the madness of becoming a bezerker. There's a twist to the story, but the way it reads makes it seem like IW bezerkers just like killing so much, they eventually become crazed killing machines. Outside of Codex: PoS, where did you get that all bezerkers needed surgery? I know that the WE have been mentioned as having psycho-surgery done, but that was even when they were Loyalists.

Fire In The Hole
29-08-2008, 22:32
I always thought that the heretical 'apothecaries' of the world eaters used simple lobotomisation techniques to remove all fear and allow unquenchible rage to exist unsuppressed by any logical thought of calming down. If there is a problem you get angrier until you rage conquers the challenge before you.
You take a blow to the frontal lobe of your brain ,or get 6 inch nails fired into it or an irate cat mauls it, you can survive (mabye not if a cat attacked it) but with significant changes to you personality, it has been demonstrated, where those affected have been found to be much more aggressive so the idea of a little brain addeling is not out of the question.

In the Storm of Iron topic it is a woman who takes revenge on her berzerker captor, dons his armour(+ some weird biological mutation follows) becomes an 'Avatar of Khorne' and kills a whole load of stuff before slashing a rent in reality and stepping through. 'Wrath of a woman scorned???'

Faustburg
30-08-2008, 01:32
Wait, so doesnt that just prove exactly what the argument is, that there are those on the Path of Khorne who ARE lunatic lemming charge ******(Berserkers) and those that AREN'T dumber than two bags of steroid charged bricks with chains axes(those that USE long range weaponry etc?)

Of course it does, but the pretentious part come into play when they pretend they have read everything and are so clever and insightful when they whine about how GW nowadays say that all Khornates are nothing but berzerkers...

:p

Johnator
30-08-2008, 02:48
Took some digging this ! Tale is called "Apothecary's Honour" by Simon Jowett. Printed in the Dark Imperium collection way back in 2001.

Long sold out/out of print I'm afraid.

Thanks for checking that out! I appreciate it.

Also apologies about the several post thing.

Finally my next thought would be are there still Apothecaries for the World Eaters? Wouldn't they all be dead or gone? I realize time is different in the Eye of Terror but I honestly just don't see it happening. As they deviate more towards Khorne I don't picture any "new" apothecaries being created for a Legion dedicated to Khorne. I understand about people turning to Khorne whether human, Space Marine, etc. but for the World Eaters legion it just seems that their "medics" if you will would be the least of their worries. Again I realize a certain amount of suspension of logic is required but of all the legions that have fallen by the wayside or are almost extinct (Flesh Tearers come to mind) I honestly picture the World Eaters as being dead and over.

DantesInferno
30-08-2008, 02:56
Finally my next thought would be are there still Apothecaries for the World Eaters? Wouldn't they all be dead or gone? I realize time is different in the Eye of Terror but I honestly just don't see it happening. As they deviate more towards Khorne I don't picture any "new" apothecaries being created for a Legion dedicated to Khorne. I understand about people turning to Khorne whether human, Space Marine, etc. but for the World Eaters legion it just seems that their "medics" if you will would be the least of their worries. Again I realize a certain amount of suspension of logic is required but of all the legions that have fallen by the wayside or are almost extinct (Flesh Tearers come to mind) I honestly picture the World Eaters as being dead and over.

The current Chaos Space Marine codex explicitly mentions such Apothecaries, or "Berzerker-Surgeons", who practice the lobotomisation pioneered by the World Eaters. The procedure is described as "complex psycho-surgery", and the specialists in the World Eaters have apparently perfected it to an extent only matched by the Berzerker-Surgeons recruited by Abaddon.

So there are clearly still some among the World Eaters who are lucid enough to perform complex surgery: I'd imagine these individuals would be in charge of the implantation of gene-seed too.

=Angel=
31-08-2008, 17:41
Again with the crazy 24/7 dealy.
Imagine the following situations:

(a)Berzerker Apothecarion waiting room. A newly berzerked berzerker roars as the chip begins to take effect. The apothecary dismisses him and two Huge legion guards help him out the door. His head clearing, he sees all the unsurgically altered guys waiting there, not killing things.

(b) WE starship boarding and take off. 8 man Squad Hackenslash stomps up the bloodstained ramp as the iron and brass doors clamp behind them. They are the last off the battlefield, the scent of blood dying in their nostrils. As their eyes become accustomed to the gloom, they notice a room full of defenceless legion serfs regulating the flow of coolant to the reactors...

(c) Armory, Tminus 16 minutes to embarkation on dreadclaw. Supplies are running low, Brother Slaughterer Grak thought as he found 1 Chainax powercell remaining in the ammo bin. As he opened the cell clasp on his power ax and removed the depleted cell, he noticed Brother Slaughterer Frek reach into the bin and pick the last cell up...


I thought about these and figured The WE had to be able to turn on and off their rage to survive as a legion. The chip likely heightens their rage when in battle. Anyone remember the berzerkers in LOTR smearing blood on themselves before battle? Got em all psyched up and furious.