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Fire Harte
27-08-2008, 15:23
Hi warseer!

Could a plasma bolt, be deflected/stopped by a power weapon, in any way shape or form?

I ask this question because I am fascinated by these two weapons, and want some answers from a wide audience of people.

Thanks in advance!

Iuris
27-08-2008, 15:31
Not by any rules found so far. However, background allows for rare versions of weapons with extraordinary capabilities, which could allow for one. Of course, you'd need to keep in mind that:

A) such a weapon would be extremely rare and expensive, like the inferno pistol or graviton gun, so you'd expect something like that in the hands of Inquisitors and above.

B) you'd still need to be trained very very hard to block a shot with a melee weapon.


And ALL that only works on rule of cool. Any real life analysis would quickly point out the reasons why such things are not done in real life (projectiles are too fast to see, the training level required would exceed the abilities of a human, a shield would be better, a plasma blast is not solid and would probably just flow around the blade or detonate on impact,...)

pookie
27-08-2008, 15:33
i would have thought so, they can be stopped by Storm Shields, which create a power field, much like a power wep would, dont see why not? (unless the power field on the SS is diffrent to that of a PW )

Sai-Lauren
27-08-2008, 15:41
Possibly block, but the bolt would then blossom and splash around the field of the power weapon and hit the target anyway - taking wide spread 4th degree burns as opposed to a localised 6th degree burn still means you're a :skull: - assuming the field generator doesn't short out and detonate, taking the wielders hand with it, with the remainder of the bolt then burning straight through what's left of the weapon and into the person behind it.

Deflect? No chance.

Power weapons aren't light sabers, and the odds of of getting the weapon in the way of the bolt after launch aren't great anyway.

Failing a big solid wall or an energy field, you're better off trying to dodge, or throwing a smoke grenade to try and get something in the way that'll cause the bolt to blossom before it hits you.

heretics bane
27-08-2008, 15:44
I though the SS field was like a refractor type to try and ward blows away and isnt it suppose to be poor against ranged combat? and its only designed for close combat fighting.

Erm id say it would melt it like any other thing in its path

Cavalier
27-08-2008, 15:49
Yeah, sure, why not? Sounds cool to me.

djinn8
28-08-2008, 19:01
I always imagined a plasm shot to be a huge wave of burning energy that can be swept about the battlefield like a firemans hose from hell. Get a mate to spray you with a hose pipe and try not to get wet by deflecting it with a stick.

Oberon
28-08-2008, 19:08
Power weapons aren't light sabers, and the odds of of getting the weapon in the way of the bolt after launch aren't great anyway.


Well Eisenhorn had a light saber (a hilt which had an energyblade, no tangible blade), but even he could not deflect bullets with that. He needed a ancient "normal sword" for that (attuned psychically, of course). Could not have deflected/blocked/whatever a plasma shot with anything, those things melt a person from ankles up, all is dust and so on.

madtroll
28-08-2008, 19:12
I always imagined it to be a ball of plasma but the eisenhorn books described it as a stream, much like how I imagined a melta blast would be.

I like ball of energy better and I think you would be able to block it with a power weapon then. A force weapon would be able to for sure.

Also, why doesn't a plasma pistol give you a "power weapon" like attack in close combat?

olmsted
28-08-2008, 19:56
like a power bat or something

Fire Harte
28-08-2008, 22:21
I always imagined a plasm shot to be a huge wave of burning energy that can be swept about the battlefield like a firemans hose from hell. Get a mate to spray you with a hose pipe and try not to get wet by deflecting it with a stick.

Ha Ha! Worth a try actually!


I always imagined it to be a ball of plasma but the eisenhorn books described it as a stream, much like how I imagined a melta blast would be.

I like ball of energy better and I think you would be able to block it with a power weapon then. A force weapon would be able to for sure.

Also, why doesn't a plasma pistol give you a "power weapon" like attack in close combat?

I would possibly think the Plasma Pistol would be a bit more 'dangerous' to use up close.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys and girls!

azimaith
28-08-2008, 22:39
Plasma weapons supposedly fire out a bolt of energy, that on impact, explodes with into essentially, a small sun, obliterating things hit by it.

All that power weapons do is disrupt armor using a "power field" to cut through it more easily. This doesn't give it any special deflecting power though it may certainly stop bullets by chance (bullets being destroyed as they pass through the energy field) if it even gets a chance to intereact with them at all.

Aladin_sane
28-08-2008, 22:47
I think it would probably pass through the sword, or cook the wielder of the power weapon as they would still have to be in close proximity of the plasma. Plasma is ionized gas so its mass is minimal so it isn't a solid object to be deflected, it would be similar to trying to deflect a ball of fire, which itself contains a very small portion of plasma.

Grimbad
28-08-2008, 23:38
In inquisitor you can block projectiles with a power or force weapon. There is also a chance that the projectile rebounds and hits whoever is shooting at you.

Helsing
28-08-2008, 23:43
Simply put, no. The plasma bolt would most likely envelop the blade, and even if it did not it still generates the heat of a star which would incinerate the wielder.

Helsing.

Herman the Heathen
29-08-2008, 04:21
Why not?

If that's anything to bo by, there's a small part in the end of the Battle for the Abyss when the main character does just that. Storming forward, using his power sword to deflect both shells and plasme bolts.

azimaith
29-08-2008, 05:07
For the most part black library books are so random in what 40k tech does its hardly worth considering. If we accept Battle for the Abyss are we going to accept braying wraiths from CS Goto? What about Wave serpents being destroyed because dirty children literally, shoved rocks into the muzzle of a *freaking laser* causing it to explode.

totgeboren
29-08-2008, 06:32
speaking scientifically, there is no way any human, marine or not, could deflect shots with his sword. (psychers on the other hand is a different story)

I mean, nowdays, even the quickest people cant deflect arrows. They are waaaay to fast.

ofc, there is nothing stopping a plasma bolt acually hitting a powersword, so you could hold a sword infront of you and be lucky that the shot hit the sword instead of you.

Though, it has to be said, consider that plasmaweapons can take out quite heavy armoured vehicles. Its a humungous amount of enery in a plasmabolt. Even if the forcefield of the powerweapon holds, that enery has to go somewhere.

If it cant convert the sword into gas, is will turn all that energy to kinetik energy, meaning you have a powersword going straight through you. Probably broadside first...

bah, rule of cool I guess wins out in the end...

Faustburg
29-08-2008, 10:07
bah, rule of cool I guess wins out in the end...

Yes, especially when it is up against unfounded pseudoscience and misunderstandings like what you have there... :p

Of course you are not dodging or deflecting a bullet or arrow fired at you, you are, based on how the firing weapon is pointing at you, dodging or placing your sword in the calculated path of the projectile...

Slaaneshi Slave
29-08-2008, 10:53
No way would. Even if the power field could stop it (of which I have my doubts) the entire sword isn't surrounded by such a field. First the hilt (and hand it is attached to) melts, then generator, then the rest of the sword. By this stage it doesn't really matter because you have lost your arm, chest, head and probably even a few bits you didn't know you had to the heat.

Sai-Lauren
29-08-2008, 11:06
Plasma weapons supposedly fire out a bolt of energy, that on impact, explodes with into essentially, a small sun, obliterating things hit by it.

I've always thought they're basically "beam riders" - the plasma weapon creates a tunnel by firing a powerful laser, heating up the air and making it less dense, then launching the plasma bolt (IMO, roughly the size of a grape for plasma pistols, an orange for plasma cannon) down that tunnel. When it hits, it detonates and the heat vaporises anything within range.

Without that tunnel (say the laser focussing crystals get jarred slightly out of alignment, or some smoke drifts across in front of the muzzle, disrupting the beam), the bolt would hit much denser air than normal and detonate almost immediately. If the gunner's lucky, he can probably scram the coils and safely vent the heat and gases (a saved "get's hot" wound) - otherwise, he probably wouldn't have time to know what's happened before he got turned into free floating atoms.

Also explains why Eldar plasma weapons don't have the "gets hot" rule - they've also got lance weapons (which I see as like the starship beam weapons in Babylon 5), and the laser beam is effectively a lower powered lance, whilst the imperium don't have that level of laser technology - they may even only use laser pulses to heat the air.



speaking scientifically, there is no way any human, marine or not, could deflect shots with his sword. (psychers on the other hand is a different story)

Remember, the force will be with you, always... :D

A powerful telepath might be able to pick up the shooter targetting (difficult on a battlefield), or a precog may see themselves blocking the shots, but they'd still need the reflexes to get the blade in the way, or the ability to distort time around themselves - and if they can do that, then they might as well just dodge and avoid possibly damaging their weapon.

Fire Harte
29-08-2008, 11:29
Okay guys, we have mainly used powerswords as the example, but what about the good old poweraxe?

Would there be any major differences? Or just the same?

Slaaneshi Slave
29-08-2008, 11:34
Would be even less useful, since there is more axe handle to melt. You're not getting this whole "melts everything within a certain radius" thing are you? It doesn't need to hit you to kill you.

Faustburg
29-08-2008, 12:50
As for the bolt vs. continous stream of plasma hosing you down;

In all accounts it has always been described as "bolts", small packages of plasma held reasonable coherent until they strike the target. The rules have reflected this (being a an short burst automatic weapon type gun in all editions, be it the actual rules have varied over editions, from "following fire", to using sustained fire dice to in the last three versions being 'Rapid Fire') . The one instance, to my knowledge, in where is has been an all-out hosing down of the target like a flame thrower, is in the Eisenhorn series...

Now, it would be easy to do the knee-jerk "Black Library, so it doesn't count!", especially since the good Mr. Abnett has been known to take liberties or just miss some finer points of established background...

But... If we want the give him the benefit of the doubt; without too much spoilers for those who have not read the books, consider the situation it is used in, it is a conspirator using a plasma gun to utterly destroy an unarmoured (literally naked even, iirc) human, with the intent of leaving no corpse to be examined!

Would it not be possible that his pattern of Plasma gun, or all for that matter, had a "hose" setting, normally not used as it is less ideal for hard targets, and/or empties the cells to quickly?

Sai-Lauren
29-08-2008, 16:05
I guess that would depend on whether plasma weapons have a magnetically confined plasma reservoir that small amounts are "pinched" off from to be fired, or whether the plasma bolt is created as required.

I think the latter is more likely for normal Imperial weapons, the energy requirements for the former are probably too high for anything man-portable (titan plasma wepaons supposedly work like that, taking plasma directly from the main reactor, but that would mean there's a pipe from the main reactor to all of the weapon mounts, as a titan can conceivably be refit with weapons for each campaign, depending on what it's expected to face).

Maybe Eldar plasma weapons have a reservoir, but probably not Imperials.

Adra
29-08-2008, 18:35
The ability to deflect bullets with a sword due to speed is immaterial to this thread. The deflection could happen by accident.

Defelct a plazma shot? No, not as in bouncing it off in another direction. Its not made of solid material, its more a not lump of liquid fire heading for you.

Possible to hit the powersword and thus survive the shot? Sure, why not. The mini explosion wouldnt be uniform in shape so maybe the power field of the sword would sheild the user just enough to protect them, although they would probably get some splash damage.

heretics bane
29-08-2008, 20:37
Splash damge would still be more than likely fatal to the recipetent.

british nut
29-08-2008, 20:48
well if you have ever read about a plasma weapon in a 40k novel, you can clearly see that its a spay kind of attack like a flamer, but not as burny. the only way i can see a plasma weapon blocked by a power weapon is if that guy was a rattaling and the sword got in the way :P

Faustburg
30-08-2008, 01:37
well if you have ever seen a plasma weapon in a 40k novel, you can clearly see that its a spay kind of attack like a flamer, but not as burny. the only way i can see a plasma weapon blocked by a power weapon is if that guy was a rattaling and the sword got in the way :P

How do you "see" things in a novel?

But really, as stated above, the Flamer-esque effect is in one novel, in others it is "bolts"...

For example, the story where Kharn and a warband of berserkers storm a Slaanesh cult temple.

Zherghegg
30-08-2008, 07:58
For the most part black library books are so random in what 40k tech does its hardly worth considering. If we accept Battle for the Abyss are we going to accept braying wraiths from CS Goto? What about Wave serpents being destroyed because dirty children literally, shoved rocks into the muzzle of a *freaking laser* causing it to explode.

haha! what??! I heard about Goto and the multilaser using marines, but I hadn't heard about braying wraiths and children tankbusters!! :wtf:

Jos
30-08-2008, 09:34
If you are gordon freeman....
I guess that if the PW was based on radiation and/or light like a light sabre then it would if not stop it, at least pacify it somewhat

Dr_Jimboedius
30-08-2008, 17:21
I reckon that while it would not "deflect" the plasma shot it would absorb some of the energy, and if it didn't kill the weilder in an overload then the power weapon would get more powerful, if only for a short amount of time.

Dr Jim

][nquist0r
31-08-2008, 02:02
An exerpt from a book I am writing forgive me for what warseer does to Word Cut/paste!


Durham struggled get his arms free, but then before Muerte’s astonished eyes

Dravidic’s fanged maw snaked over Durham’s left shoulder and clamped firmly onto the

Marine’s neck. Blood exploded from the wound as Dravidic pulled away causing a ghastly

hole. Durham’s trachea was torn, and both carotid arteries were severed. Half of his

devoured Progenoid gland pulsated obscenely from the wound, its gene-seeds destroyed.

Durham’s eyes rolled backwards and blackness quickly closed in.


Michael realized that the time of waiting for a clean shot was over. His comrade, his

friend, was dead! Durham had watched over Michael ever since they were both

neophytes. Although they were close to the same age, Durham had possessed a sagely

quality that gave him an aura of experience. He was the big brother that Michael never

had during his pre-Astartes life. They had laughed in the face of death on a hundred

different worlds together, shared the same fox holes, and told the same stories. Now he

was gone, dealt an ignoble death at the hands of a mutated abomination. Bathing in the

wash of his former comrade’s Heavy Flamer, Michael screamed above the static on his

vox and raised his Plasma Rifle. He didn’t hear Muerte’s desperate shriek or feel his strong

hand tug at his shoulder. With steely determination Michael pulled the trigger, giving his

gun’s superheated workings the deadly impetus it needed to release its awesome power.

For the second time in recorded history, the moon Sanguin witnessed a supernova.


Muerte’s remaining eye desperately tried to sort out the blinding flashes of light that

endlessly swam before it. He couldn’t tell how long he had been unconscious, or if he had

in fact been unconscious at all. One moment he had been attempting to disrupt Michael’s

intention of using his red hot Plasma Rifle, and the next he was here, wherever here was.

Muerte knew that Dravidic was nearby and that these moments could be the last ones of

his life. He closed his eye, and shook his head giving willing his body to obey. How badly

am I hurt he wondered? He couldn’t seem to be able to open his mouth, and his trachea

felt like it was on fire. His helmet was breached, and its HUD destroyed he knew because

he felt the hot air, and he couldn’t hear the warning chimes. He feared his armor’s

machine spirit might have also perished. Finally shadows were forming in the brilliance of

his vision. Muerte lifted his right arm to remove his helmet and was surprised when his

head was jarred to the left. He attempted to do the same with his left arm and his head

rocked to the right. How odd, he thought to himself as he heard a monstrous voice offer assistance.


“Let me help you with your helmet Lieutenant Muerte.” Dravidic graciously offered. “I

would insist that you drop your weapons first, but I see that you have already disarmed

yourself.” Dravidic laughed at his little joke as he reached down and removed Muerte’s

shattered helmet along with half of the melted face that stayed attached to it. The

Lieutenant was a terrible sight to behold, perched as he was upon the precipice of the

molten crater that had been Michael. His armor and legs had melted into a slag that

bonded with the floor, there was nothing but red hot metal from his waist down and his

arms had melted off at the elbows. His new height was around one meter tall; down

substantially from the two and a half meters he used to be. There also wasn’t much left

of his face either, half of it was a naked shining skull, and the other half a wash of

melted scar tissue. His mouth was seared shut, and nose burned completely off.


“Well with that good deed done, I’m afraid that I must be off. I have a shuttle to

catch. I would stick around and kill you, but really Muerte, you aren’t worth the effort..."


Plasma weapons = Very bad. They are not blaster beams from Starwars, and well lets face it a space marine is no jedi either...

=Angel=
31-08-2008, 17:16
Depends on the 'plasma ' we're talking about.

Some authors think plasma weapons fire hissing streams/globs of viscous 'plasma' goo that splash when they hit, much like a flamers prometheium/napalm might do. In that case, no.

The small bolts of plasma balls that detonate on impact like small suns, yep a balefield would likely defend the blade against that.
Inquisitor was the first to suggest that powerweapons have a chance to destroy any weapon that attempts to parry them, except another powerweapon. Balefields then must resist balefields- and balefields simply add destructive force to the blows of the weapon, presumably through heat/electric release.

The 'plasma bolt' will still detonate 'with the force of a caged sun exploding'... just in a very small area relatively. How large that area is depends on the weapon in question... We simply don't know how big the explosion is. If its small enough you migt get away, bigger you may lose your hands..

Certainly with a plasma cannon bolt you will be dead.

heretics bane
31-08-2008, 17:59
.
The small bolts of plasma balls that detonate on impact like small suns, yep a balefield would likely defend the blade against that.

Yes possible the blade but not the person whos holding the thing.

=Angel=
31-08-2008, 18:14
Yes possible the blade but not the person whos holding the thing.

This is true. However we only know the splash range on a plasma cannon blast, we don't know the explosive radius of a plasma gun/pistol bolt.

Remember It wouldn't take a huge radius to desintegrate your internal organs on impact, say the size of an orange or grapefruit (mmm, citrus) but that blast range wouldn't reach you if a sword (of any description) blocked the shot.

we're not assuming plasma blasts go off like a handful of C4 or a grenade- the deliver localised disintegration.

Faustburg
31-08-2008, 23:57
Anyone not getting that "with the power of a small sun" is merely poetic descriptions is disqualified from discussing...

Sai-Lauren
01-09-2008, 08:38
Anyone not getting that "with the power of a small sun" is merely poetic descriptions is disqualified from discussing...

You do actually know what plasma is, don't you (at least, the version nuclear physicists are concerned with, rather than the straw coloured liquid that makes up most of your blood ;))?

It is a gas (usually Hydrogen, although it could potentially be the gaseous form of any element - Iron plasma is theoretically possible for example) that has been superheated until all the electrons have been stripped off of it - you need to contain it in a magnetic field bubble in a vacumn to stop it from instantly vaporising whatever it touches.

It's not a poetic description - it really is a small sun.

Faustburg
01-09-2008, 10:24
Of course everyone (let's hope) know what plasma in this meaning is...

What makes people look stupid is equating "same process that happens in the sun" to "being a small sun", when they take "the power of a small sun" literally...


It is poetic description...

Cavalier
01-09-2008, 13:36
A plasma bolt would need to be contained by something until impact, otherwise the thing would detonate as soon as it made contact with the atmosphere. This would presumably be some type of energy field, possibly magnetic. Until that energy field is ruptured by contact with some object, the plasma shot would continue unimpeded and would not detonate. We have no way of knowing how that energy field reacts with the energy field around a power weapon. You may very well be able to deflect it without "setting off" the plasma bolt.

The ultimate physics in 40K is the rule of cool. Since Darth Vader batting aside an energy bolt looks awesome, then yes, a power weapon can deflect a plasma bolt.

totgeboren
01-09-2008, 14:08
Yes, especially when it is up against unfounded pseudoscience and misunderstandings like what you have there... :p

Please enlighten me then, since obviously my meager knowledge of physics is oh so lacking (im studying physics and engineering at the university).


Of course you are not dodging or deflecting a bullet or arrow fired at you, you are, based on how the firing weapon is pointing at you, dodging or placing your sword in the calculated path of the projectile...


I would still have a hard time buying it. Normal people cant calculate the trajectories of bullets as they are traveling towards them. They can dodge behind cover and hope for the best. I think this would go for even extraordinarily fast creatures such as eldar too. Scientifically speaking that is. Ofc we can make up aliens that can process information at absurdly high speeds if we want to.

Ok, we dont know how much plasma a plasmabolt/beam is made of, and we dont know what sort of substance the plasma in made of either (as pointed out, it could be superheated iron for all we know, or something that turns to plasma at like 350 K).

Still, what makes me say no is that a plasmabolt can destroy all but the heaviest armoured tanks in 40k. That says something of the energy in a plasmabolt/beam, and what it says is that is it quite staggering.

It just sounds to far fetched to be able parry shots of that magnitude. Its like catching a krakmissile between your teeth or swatting away a bomb with your palm or something like that.

It works in parodies of actionfilms and such, but not if you wanna do a serious story.

If we accept that a plasmabolt has the "power of a small sun", its hard to also accept that the same shot is something you can deflect with a sword, energyshielded or not...

Faustburg
01-09-2008, 14:11
The ultimate physics in 40K is the rule of cool. Since Darth Vader batting aside an energy bolt looks awesome, then yes, a power weapon can deflect a plasma bolt.

Exactly, what people are missing when just asking "can it be done?" is that you, in the games it is even available in the rules, need a specific skill to use it, supposedly only mastered by a select few heroes and villains. It is not something that every Imperial Guard lieutenant with a powersord can do...

Sai-Lauren
01-09-2008, 14:29
A plasma bolt would need to be contained by something until impact, otherwise the thing would detonate as soon as it made contact with the atmosphere. This would presumably be some type of energy field, possibly magnetic. Until that energy field is ruptured by contact with some object, the plasma shot would continue unimpeded and would not detonate. We have no way of knowing how that energy field reacts with the energy field around a power weapon. You may very well be able to deflect it without "setting off" the plasma bolt.

I don't like the idea of an open ended magnetic tunnel that also creates a vacumn, especially with imperial tech - hence my idea of a laser beam which heats the air and makes it less dense for the bolt to travel down. The other alternative is some kind of pellet inside the bolt which projects two magnetic fields, one to contain the plasma around it, the other to protect itself.

But either way, the moment the leading edge of the plasma bolt hits something with sufficient density, it's going to blossom/detonate, whether that's a person, an energy field, a dense cloud of smoke or whatever. You try and deflect it with a blade, it'll take your arm off.



The ultimate physics in 40K is the rule of cool. Since Darth Vader batting aside an energy bolt looks awesome, then yes, a power weapon can deflect a plasma bolt.
Different universes, different rules.

The ultimate physics in 40k is, well, physics. The ultimate in narrative is rule of cool. Don't get the two mixed up.

The problem is that some writers feel the need to top what came before, very rarely do the miraculous, millions to one odds against, shots not come off (the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the ML shot against the Baneblade in Honour Guard), or the heroic last stands get utterly crushed without causing any casualties in the enemy, and so on.

Which is why we get the writing of Mr Goto - aka Topper from the Dilbert strips. ;)

To deflect a shot, you'll need the reflexes and precognition, or localised time distortion, telekenesis or energy manipulation abilities, and probably be an alpha-grade psyker (or higher) to boot. To deflect a plasma bolt, you'd need all of those and more.

heretics bane
01-09-2008, 18:26
This is true. However we only know the splash range on a plasma cannon blast, we don't know the explosive radius of a plasma gun/pistol bolt.

Remember It wouldn't take a huge radius to desintegrate your internal organs on impact, say the size of an orange or grapefruit (mmm, citrus) but that blast range wouldn't reach you if a sword (of any description) blocked the shot.

we're not assuming plasma blasts go off like a handful of C4 or a grenade- the deliver localised disintegration.

Small sun on any level is still going to be bad for you if your beside it:eyebrows:...

Cavalier
02-09-2008, 18:28
I don't like the idea of an open ended magnetic tunnel that also creates a vacumn, especially with imperial tech - hence my idea of a laser beam which heats the air and makes it less dense for the bolt to travel down. The other alternative is some kind of pellet inside the bolt which projects two magnetic fields, one to contain the plasma around it, the other to protect itself.

There must be some sort of energy field to contain the blast. Otherwise it goes off when it hits the air immediately in front of the gun.


But either way, the moment the leading edge of the plasma bolt hits something with sufficient density, it's going to blossom/detonate, whether that's a person, an energy field, a dense cloud of smoke or whatever. You try and deflect it with a blade, it'll take your arm off.

Ideally, yes, it "detonates" (for lack of a better term) as soon as the shot touches something. What we don't know is how the heck a power sword works, what kind of energy field surrounds it, or how the thing functions. It may well be that a plasma shot does NOT explode when it hits the field of a power sword. There is no evidence to the contrary, at least.



Different universes, different rules.

The ultimate physics in 40k is, well, physics. The ultimate in narrative is rule of cool. Don't get the two mixed up.

Umm... no. Real physics and 40K parted ways long, long ago. We're talking about sci-fi only in the most generic, least scientific sense. There's nothing "real physics" about power swords or psionics or an emotion-sensitive warp.

Adra
03-09-2008, 00:58
Everyone knows that you can stop bullets with swords....its simple Rule of Cool.

Burning Star IV
03-09-2008, 06:48
Please enlighten me then, since obviously my meager knowledge of physics is oh so lacking (im studying physics and engineering at the university).


Wow, you go to the college with the functioning plasma guns? That must be a great research aid.

OP: Yeah sure it can deflect it. The reason being that in 40k, things don't really have to make sense. So, if thats how you want to imagine your terminator made his invulnerable save against a plasma gun, thats how it happened.

totgeboren
03-09-2008, 13:32
Wow, you go to the college with the functioning plasma guns? That must be a great research aid.

You live in the world where you can make accurate answers using false statements? :P

As I understood it, the topicstarter asked if it was plausible to deflect plasmabolts with a powersword, given what knowledge we have of 40k physics and current day physics. (also, as some have said, plasma could also be a beam-type weapon, meaning it cant really be parried at all. like parrying a flamer.)

My answer, using the information at hand, was that is was comparable to catching a krakmissile with your teeth.

ofc, if you think that would be kewl, go ahead.

Since we are using 40k physics as the base of the analysis (which is false), all answers derived using 40k physics with be true, logically.

Therefor I tried to use what knowledge we have of current day physics and postulate a probable answer, and using that came to the conclusion that being able to deflect plasma with a superstrong sword was most likely a false statement.

Using 40k physics as the base for analysis is meaningless. All statements will be true, and the topicstarter was looking for an answer that could be true/false, therefore i tried to give him one.

Sai-Lauren
03-09-2008, 14:20
There must be some sort of energy field to contain the blast. Otherwise it goes off when it hits the air immediately in front of the gun.

It depends on whether the plasma bolt would blossom the moment it hit any molecules at all, or whether it only did so after hitting a sufficiently dense object - if a laser beam could heat up the atmosphere sufficiently, then not only could it convey the bolt without it losing integrity, it could possibly pick up additional mass on the way.



Ideally, yes, it "detonates" (for lack of a better term) as soon as the shot touches something.

Detonate implies an explosion, what a plasma bolt does is more like being hit by napalm.



What we don't know is how the heck a power sword works, what kind of energy field surrounds it, or how the thing functions. It may well be that a plasma shot does NOT explode when it hits the field of a power sword. There is no evidence to the contrary, at least.

Well, we can work out certain basics - the field will be focused to provide an infinitely sharp edge along the blade, and to do so at maximum power. Power not being infinite, this means that the flat of the weapon will have a significantly weaker field, possibly only enough to maintain the field integrity over the whole of the weapon.

Try and block with the flat - boom, field overloads and weapon is vaporised, and the bolts momentum takes it into you. Try and block with the edge, all you do is cut the bolt in two, meaning you get hit in two separate locations.

No evidence to the contrary, true. No evidence for either.



Umm... no. Real physics and 40K parted ways long, long ago. We're talking about sci-fi only in the most generic, least scientific sense. There's nothing "real physics" about power swords or psionics or an emotion-sensitive warp.
Well, telepathy for example could simply be a sensitivity to the electrical fields produced by someone's brain, and if the environment can affect brainwaves, then maybe brainwaves can also affect the environment.

Two hundred years ago, flying machines weren't "real physics".
One hundred years ago, nuclear power wasn't.

Everything can be defined by physics, whether we know the right formulae to define it in physics is another matter though. ;)

Or, to paraphrase Arthur C Clarke, "any technology sufficiently advanced will seem like magic".

Cavalier
03-09-2008, 17:43
Well, we can work out certain basics - the field will be focused to provide an infinitely sharp edge along the blade, and to do so at maximum power. Power not being infinite, this means that the flat of the weapon will have a significantly weaker field, possibly only enough to maintain the field integrity over the whole of the weapon.

Except you can block power swords with other power swords. So there's some sort of protective benefit from having one. If you try to block another, both swords don't get cut in half.


Try and block with the flat - boom, field overloads and weapon is vaporised, and the bolts momentum takes it into you. Try and block with the edge, all you do is cut the bolt in two, meaning you get hit in two separate locations.

Or you block it with the flat of the blade and the field repulses the plasma in a different direction. We just don't know. So we're left with "what do you think is cool?"

I think power weapons are cooler than plasma guns, so I think they should win.


Well, telepathy for example could simply be a sensitivity to the electrical fields produced by someone's brain, and if the environment can affect brainwaves, then maybe brainwaves can also affect the environment.

Two hundred years ago, flying machines weren't "real physics".
One hundred years ago, nuclear power wasn't.

Everything can be defined by physics, whether we know the right formulae to define it in physics is another matter though. ;)

Or, to paraphrase Arthur C Clarke, "any technology sufficiently advanced will seem like magic".

Yeah, as I said, it's fantasy. :) There aren't any "real" physics involved with most of it, not that we can tell, anyway.