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Overt_Spy
28-08-2008, 07:05
Hey all, so I've been looking through the Blood Angels WD-codex, and one thing I've noticed is that there is a lot of variation between all the models painting wise. Most of the differences are minute, but I was wanting to know if thats just because some of the models are old/out of date, or do the individual markings and schemes vary from marine to marine?

I know that the helmets change colour, red is for tactical marines, yellow for assault, blue for devestators, and gold for honor guard. Their shoulder trims however are sometimes black, though most of the time they're red. It seems that the higher ranking guys have black trims, is that one of the symbols of their status? Same thing with black insets on their shoulders, only certain marines have that.

Also, what colour are the aquila's and decorations supposed to be? The marines are shown in to have black decorations, but the terminators have bone coloured decorations and crux's. I personally think the bone looks cooler, but is that something reserved for the termies only?

Can any knowledgeable Blood Angel vets help a young aspirant out? I know this is all kind of minute, but I want my BA's to be by the books, so to speak, and want to keep them to their noble and unique looks.

Spyros80
28-08-2008, 10:38
I don't think there is a definite "codex" appearance. I mean even in the ultra-codex-followers Ultramarines, the 2nd Co. yellow trim has turned to gold now, probably due to rule-of-cool.

Back in the 2nd ed. GW appeared to have a more standardized paint scheme, so look for old pictures. The shoulderpads trim was almost always black (and the sergeant's black soulders had red trim, obviously), the chest eagle was mostly yellowish.

My personal standardization is black on shoulderpads trim, black on the belt, and black on left kneecap (along with whatever color is on the right that has the squad insignia). On captains I design on the right shoulderpad, that usually has the company badge (colored blood drop), the company banner scheme.

Wraith
28-08-2008, 12:55
Before 3rd edition BAs would universally have black shoulder trim but at the onset of 3rd edition and beyond this was dropped for unknown reasons.

You'll see similar inconsistencies like the colour of Dark Angel weaponry which is portrayed often with red casing but other times as metal / black / green.

Cherubael
28-08-2008, 13:26
As others have said the black trim is a throwback to 2nd edition when it was common to all Blood Angels mini's. Personally i keep it for any BA that i paint, mostly because thats what their paintscheme was when i started the hobby. In the end they are your mini's so do what you like the look of best, afterall you are the one who has to live with them.

pookie
28-08-2008, 13:28
iirc the Black rims/back ground is for sgts and higher ranked officers

Unlike Other codex style chapters who use coloured trims on there shoulder pads, the BA use a diffrent coloured Blood Drop, the Sgts also use the Yellow BA Symbol, where as 'normal' marines use the standard Black BA Symbol.

if you can get hold of the 2nd ed Angels of Death Codex then you will get a lot of info about company markings etc.

Leftenant Gashrog
28-08-2008, 13:59
During 2nd edition the Eavy Metal team did always show BA with black trims, however when Mk7 was first released in RT the paint guide stated that although the BA's full uniform had black trims they are often omitted or painted over whilst the chapter is on campaign. The 3rd edition Blood Angels IA showed examples of two regular marine pads - one with black trim, one with red - specifically labelled as being from different companies, I've always interpreted that to mean the original fluff still stands: that some company captains prefer to omit the trims whilst others prefer to retain them.

Black shoulderpad insets are not used by higher officers: it denotes that the marine is either a Sergeant or a Squad Leader*, there is some confusion about this however as the Eavy Metal team (rather sensibly) decided to paint up one of the example Honour Guard squad as a Squad Leader ~ this marine has occassionally been pictured on his own, which has led a vocal portion of BA players (who apparently missed every other example VAS and Honour Guard..) to claim that black pads denote veteran status..

Note that Sgts & Squad Leaders reverse the colours of their pads ~ so even if the rest of the squad have black trims the Sgts & Squad Leaders should have red trims.

* there have never been rules for squad leaders, but fluffwise each 10-man squad should included a regular marine painted up as one: when the squad splits he commands one combat squad whilst the sergeant commands the other.

Sephiroth
28-08-2008, 14:15
The black shoulder pad trim is optional, as it doesn't signify anything organisation-wise. The same for the colour of the chest-eagles/wings.

Squad-type is shown through helmet colours. Companies through the colour of the blood-drop on their left shoulder-pad. A sergeants' marking is inverted shoulder pads, so the interior is black with a red/yellow icon, instead of a black symbol on a red background. Squad number is determined by a symbol on the right knee-pad.

Veterans are marked by golden helmets. The 1st company have a white-skull instead of a blood-drop. Honour guard units have a black skull instead.

EDIT: You'll notice this if you get into a painting situation, but the Blood Angels markings haven't been considered as well regarding some parts. This may stump some of the other posters in this thread to consider this too (I was for awhile):

If a Blood Angel comes from the Fifth Company, how can you portray a black blood-drop on the reversed shoulder-pad of the sergeants?

pookie
28-08-2008, 14:26
During 2nd edition the Eavy Metal team did always show BA with black trims, however when Mk7 was first released in RT the paint guide stated that although the BA's full uniform had black trims they are often omitted or painted over whilst the chapter is on campaign. The 3rd edition Blood Angels IA showed examples of two regular marine pads - one with black trim, one with red - specifically labelled as being from different companies, I've always interpreted that to mean the original fluff still stands: that some company captains prefer to omit the trims whilst others prefer to retain them.

Black shoulderpad insets are not used by higher officers: it denotes that the marine is either a Sergeant or a Squad Leader*, there is some confusion about this however as the Eavy Metal team (rather sensibly) decided to paint up one of the example Honour Guard squad as a Squad Leader ~ this marine has occassionally been pictured on his own, which has led a vocal portion of BA players (who apparently missed every other example VAS and Honour Guard..) to claim that black pads denote veteran status..

Note that Sgts & Squad Leaders reverse the colours of their pads ~ so even if the rest of the squad have black trims the Sgts & Squad Leaders should have red trims.

* there have never been rules for squad leaders, but fluffwise each 10-man squad should included a regular marine painted up as one: when the squad splits he commands one combat squad whilst the sergeant commands the other.

aye, agreed, i knew i was graspng a little, been a while since i was a BA player and probably as long since i picked up the AoD dex.

Wraith
28-08-2008, 14:38
I own codex Angels of Death from second edition and have it in front of me now and I'd just like to backup what Leftenant Gashrog states regarding squad leaders and sgts having reversed shoulder pad colour schems markings. Interestingly though the sgt's and squad leaders are depicted with chapter symbols not red (as per a direct reverse of the colour scheme indicates) rather yellow (despite their company colour being white [3rd company]).

The Dark Angels are also depicted as having squad leaders but they are only differentiated by the addition of a backpack banner (similar to the sgt's). The Blood Angel banners see the Sgt with a black banner and red chapter symbol while the squad leader has a red banner with a black chapter symbol.


If a Blood Angel comes from the Fifth Company, how can you portray a black blood-drop on the reversed shoulder-pad of the sergeants?

The black blood drop would no doubt have a red relief around it to make it standout.


Interestingly the Blood Drinkers Space Marine chapter is a Blood Angel successor however they are a codex chapter and they represent their company colours on their shoulder pads as you'd expect. What would be interesting is whether their Sgts keep red helmets or whether they reverse the Ultramarine colour scheme and have blue helmets?

Super Ninja
28-08-2008, 14:38
If a Blood Angel comes from the Fifth Company, how can you portray a black blood-drop on the reversed shoulder-pad of the sergeants? :eek:

Maybie if the shoulder pad is entirely black, then it's a given that the Sergeant is from the fifth company?

EDIT: Wraith's explaination makes more sense.

Here's how it goes:

Armor: Red (duh).

Shoulder trim: Black or Red, your choice.

Eyes: Green. In the past (1st-2nd edition, perhaps 3rd) BA eyes were sometimes blue.

Trim (skulls, aquilas, rims): gold, gunmetal, bone or black.

Wraith
28-08-2008, 14:44
Blood Angel Devastators' blue helmets are depicted with red eye pieces as is the black chaplains and deathcompany and the blue librarians.

Another interesting note is the BA Terminators in Codex AofD are shown to always have their left gauntlet painted black (regardless of weapon).

Leftenant Gashrog
28-08-2008, 15:08
Cover art has sometimes featured some peculiarities with regards to eyes, the 2e Wargear book shows what appears to be glossy black eyes (somewhat odd as it was based on the studio army which had green & red eyes), whilst the 3e codex cover has metallic gold eyes ~ both of which look rather awesome.



The black blood drop would no doubt have a red relief around it to make it standout. Another option would be for them to leave the relevant pad red (in RT it was only the chapter badge pad that had its colours swapped).



Interestingly the Blood Drinkers Space Marine chapter is a Blood Angel successor however they are a codex chapter and they represent their company colours on their shoulder pads as you'd expect. What would be interesting is whether their Sgts keep red helmets or whether they reverse the Ultramarine colour scheme and have blue helmets? Due to the similarity of colours between the BD and the Genesis Chapter I'd lean towards blue helmets, though How to Paint Space Marines shows a helmetless BD Sgt with a black pad with yellow trim, but that just makes me cringe..

pookie
28-08-2008, 16:56
Cover art has sometimes featured some peculiarities with regards to eyes, the 2e Wargear book shows what appears to be glossy black eyes (somewhat odd as it was based on the studio army which had green & red eyes), whilst the 3e codex cover has metallic gold eyes ~ both of which look rather awesome.


oh in deed, a white DC Chappy springs to mind ( oh and a white armoured Sgt )

Wraith
28-08-2008, 17:17
Some of the pictures of pre-heresey BAs in my 'collected visions' book have yellow eye pieces which look particularly cool.

I also remember old artwork depicting some Dark Angels back when their colour scheme was black. The artwork depicted the bareheaded marines as crew cut sporting aryans but what was particular of note was the white chalk like kill marks on the armour and the metalic golden eye peices.

Overt_Spy
28-08-2008, 17:30
Whoa, thanks for all the replies!

So the general gist I've been getting is that the colour scheme has some minor variations depending on the age in which it was portrayed. Really all that seems constant is the bright red armor.

I think I'm going to go with red trims and red insets on the normal guys, and black insets on ranking marines. Mainly going off the schemes and company/squad markings in the WD 'dex, as it's the most recent.

Also wondering, when did the BA successor chapters get revealed? It seems that the Angels Encarmine now embody the 'old' scheme, since they have black trims, and a gold aquila.

Wraith
28-08-2008, 17:39
The successors (including the Angels Encarmine) were all featured in codex Angels of Death (2nd edition).