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terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 14:35
I'm looking to start a Tomb Kings army, I'd like it to be sort of magic heavy. I figured I'd start with getting the TK Battalion to start, but what other pieces should I look at picking up? As for a point value, probably looking to go around 2,000.

Arbiter7
28-08-2008, 14:55
Get 3-4 carrion for anti-warmachine and skirmishers, get 1-2 scorpions, if you want magic heavy take a casket of souls, some liche priests, one tomb king to represent your king/prince, and a screaming skull catapult because it rocks.

From there you might want to think it out. What is your playing style etc. Infantry? Some tomb guard are in order? Monsters? Get some ushabti, then. Do you like a fast chariot army perhaps (remember fast cav!)

Just stay away from the bone Giant and the tomb swarm.

The tomb swarm is so bad with the new rules.

It takes wounds from CR both from being a swarm and from being undead.

That means double wounds due to CR.

The book could use a re-write someday soon... I guess we'll get something like march 6" from the general etc.

Lazarus15
28-08-2008, 15:19
I wrote the new TK army review, not sure though if SPIKEDOG posted it yet though. Whenever it is up though, I would check that for other advice to fine tune your army or ask questions.

An all magic army is pretty nasty. There are a few key ingredients you need though.

*Liche high Priest-Neferra's Plaques of Mighty Incantations is a must, and whatever other gear you want to give him...I like having Cloak of Dunes on him, so he can fly to where he is needed or away from a threat.

Tomb Prince-Golden Ankhra and a great weapon, light armor shield is a good build, if you do not give the Golden ankhra to the LHP.

Liche Priest-assorted gear, dispell scrolls, or staff of sorcery or blue Khepra, Casket of Souls
Liche Priest-assorted gear, heiratic jar

You can have 14 incantation dice with 16 in one phase using th heiratic jar, depending on what gear you take.

3 dice, twice for the LHP
2 for the Tomb Prince
2 for LP #1
2 for LP#2
2 for Casket
=14 dice+bound items/banners

For core, I would take skeleton warriors, hand weapon, LA, Shield, two blocks of 24 each.
I would also take a block of tomb guard with mirage banner to protect against range.
For cav, I would take one to two squads of chariots. Either do 1-2 squads of 4-5 chariots, or do one block of 6-8 chariots. If you do the latter of the two, you could add in your Tomb Prince on a chariot, instead of having him in the Tomb Guard. After that, I would load up on a few Scorpions, and a catapult. That way you have a solid line of troops, a flanking fast unit, and at least two to three war machine hunters, not to mention the best stone thrower in the game that can potentially fire twice at turn, park it next to the Casket----on the opposite end of the hill they both sit on.

Don't be afraid to spend points on your characters, as they are what keep your army "alive" for the most part. They allow them to potentially attack or shoot twice, summon more dead guys, or move a second time/charge.

Red_Duke
28-08-2008, 15:27
Well, for me i prefer a King on chariot to High Priest, but then i like having a hugely fast, dynamic hammer unit :)

Id reccommend Tomb Guard, as they are extremely durable, and are one of the few TK units that can work as an adequate hammer unit.

for warmachine hunting, i generally find scorpions and tomb swarms to be enough (do note, that under the new rules for swarms, the Tomb Swarms are NO WORSE than before, as they have always crumbled), and the scorpions especially have a number of uses - especially character assassination what with their poison and killing blow :)

Ushabti are nice models, but i often find them struggling somewhat in combat, especially if they fluff their attacks due to lack of any static CR.

SSCs are superb, and personally i take two over a casket, as the casket locks down one of your priests, and im yet to see one last more than a couple of turns, what with the plethora of flying units out there, not to mention scouts...

Whatever you go character wise though, make sure you take as many as you can get - they really do rely on being able to get some spells off to work as an army, and things like chariots really need a character in the unit to avoid them just bouncing off stuff.

I must say though, they have to be my fav. fantasy army :)

terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 17:16
Here's something I came up with, taking in some of these suggestions and my own personal preference...

Liche High Priest: Neferra's Plaques, Cloak of the Dunes - 295

Liche Priest: Casket of Souls - 280
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh - 140
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh - 140

Skeleton Warriors x24: Spear + Shield, Musician, Champion - 227
Skeleton Warriors x24: Spear + Shield, Musician, Champion - 227
Skeleton Heavy Horsemen x5: Champion - 94

Tomb Guard x15: Musician, Champion - 198
Ushabti x3: None - 195
Carrion x5: None - 120
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85

TOTAL: 2001

I know it's a point over 2k, not looking to play any tournaments or anything for a while, just games with some friends.

Esco Thomson
28-08-2008, 17:26
The tomb swarm is so bad with the new rules.

It takes wounds from CR both from being a swarm and from being undead.

That means double wounds due to CR.


That simply isn't right. Tomb Swarms are one of the better swarms seeing as they can be healed. They also only suffer the "standard" crumble, not the double that you have mentioned.

As for your list, first off you can only have one of a specific magic item in your list, so no two Collar of Shapesh. The exception to this is Dispel Scrolls, Power Stones, and any other item that specifically states this.

Secondly, spears are pretty garbage. Skeleton Warriors aren't really meant to, and generally won't kill anything. Personally I field mine as Archers, so as to keep them cheap as well as make them dual purpose, and they actually stand a chance at killing some things in the shooting phase.

With the setup on your Hierophant, generally it is rounded out with the Golden Ahnkhra to give him a solid ward save as well. As well as you will need to field at least one Tomb Prince for your armies general. I would recommend ditching the Casket of Souls, as I think it is just not worth the points.

Lose the Champion on your horsemen, as you really only want him if the unit has another character in it, and is of a decent size. Save the seven strong challenge trick, but that works best with light horses anyways.

Lastly, your Tomb Guard could stand to be a bit larger if you plan on fielding them. Though you currently have two large warrior blocks as is, dropping them for either a second scorpion, or a chariot unit would probably be better. You may also wish to invest in some catapult(s) this will give your priests a solid target to incant.

Nomad
28-08-2008, 17:33
Liche Priest: Casket of Souls - 280
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh - 140
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh - 140


You're only allowed one Collar of Shapesh per army.

terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 18:41
Made some changes...

Liche High Priest: Neferra's Plaques, Cloak of the Dunes, Golden Ankhra - 340

Liche Priest: Casket of Souls, Dispell Scroll - 305
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh - 140

Skeleton Warriors x10: None - 80
Skeleton Warriors x24: Spear + Shield, Standard Bearer - 226
Heavy Horsemen x5: None - 80
Light Horsemen x5: None - 70

Tomb Guard x20: Standard Bearer, Icon of Rakaph - 292
Ushabti x3: None - 195
Carrion x4: None - 96
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85

Screaming Skull Catapult: None - 90

TOTAL: 1999

Lazarus15
28-08-2008, 19:01
That is a good start, but as stated there are a few things to iron out.

1) Tomb Swarms are great, as for the "It came from below" as well as 5 attacks poison, each base! There are almost no other swarms that have this, so not bad, at least the ones that I have used.

2) The reason for the skeleton warriors is two fold. If you arm them with bows, you can definently shoot, but are going to fold in combat. If you arm them with hw/shield/LA, you will have a 4+ armor save in combat with skeletons, which is pretty danged good. You want them to stop a charge, hold, summon more, then flank with a hammer such as your tomb guard. They are pretty much like road blocks. Spears work as well, you might get lucky with the WS2, S3, but not likely, not to mention you are paying for the spear. It is up to you though, you see our recommendations. Go with what you like.

3) YOU MUST HAVE A TOMB PRINCE OR TOMB KING. Seeing as how you have a Liche High Priest for your lord, you must have a prince. He is your general. Your Tomb Prince belongs in your hammer. Either in your Tomb Guard, or in a chariot squad. Make him as resilient as possible, but give him something like a GW, or the Sword of Might. The Golden Ankhra needs to go to either this guy (in which case the GW works.... great...groan!) or your LHP, so in case he gets targeted, he has a ward save and your army won't crumble.

4) The casket is a debated item. I LOVE it, as it has saved my chariot regiment army many times over. If you stick on a hill, as close to the center of the board and as far up in your deployment as possible, you will have the best LOS for the Light of Death, as well as the furthest range for your LP's incantations. The light of death works well against everyone, even dwarves (those warmachine crew get worked) if you roll half ass decently. Not to mention it causes terror, and all enemy wizards are at a -1 to cast. Not bad for 165 points. I would gladly take it, not to mention the model kicks ass. I painted and based a Fossil Watch Tin Cover and stuck the casket model on that. It looks kick ass!

5) If you want to run a champion in the Skeleton Warriors block, ok if you are going to stick a priest in there. If not, then there really isn't a point for the champion, in my opinion.

6) The Heavy Horsemen are not so great, if you don't have alot of them. They don't move as fast cav and only have 4+ armor saves, S4 on the charge. If you like the models, or want to make a beefier squad, then go with it, otherwise I would recommend, perhaps some tomb swarms, and make the TOMB GUARD at minimum of 20. The idea behind the numbers is this;

with 24 guys, you have 4 ranks total or 6 guys in each rank, while with 20 guys you have 4 ranks total with 5 guys in each rank. Now calculate casualites, if you are charged, and you lose a couple of guys, you no longer get to count that rank. Like a buffer in a way.

7) Lastly, Tomb Scorpions need to be run in pairs. If you want to run the carrion then go for it, but I would do minimum two scorps as it is depressing when one gets buried "too deep". I honestly run three in my list, because several game, I have rolled 2 misfires in a row.

cm2008
28-08-2008, 19:07
you must have a prince or king as your general, since priests cannot be generals.

and you need a priest as your hierophant.

the prince only rolls 1 d6 for my will be done, the king has 2 a 1d6.

terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 19:26
More changes!

Liche High Priest: Neferra's Plaques, Cloak of the Dunes, Golden Ankhra - 340

Liche Priest: Casket of Souls, Dispell Scroll - 305
Tomb Prince: Light Armor, Shield, Crook & Flail of Radiance - 154

Skeleton Warriors x10: None - 80
Skeleton Warriors x24: Spear + Shield, Standard Bearer - 226
Light Horsemen x6: None - 84
Light Horsemen x6: None - 84

Tomb Guard x20: Standard Bearer, Icon of Rakaph - 292
Ushabti x3: None - 195
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85

Screaming Skull Catapult: None - 90

TOTAL: 1996

cm2008
28-08-2008, 20:15
I would get the jar in there and 4 ushabti is nice for the 4 wide frontage extra attacks.magic wise i'd take another naked priest.

Esco Thomson
28-08-2008, 20:59
More changes!

Liche High Priest: Neferra's Plaques, Cloak of the Dunes, Golden Ankhra - 340

Liche Priest: Casket of Souls, Dispell Scroll - 305
Tomb Prince: Light Armor, Shield, Crook & Flail of Radiance - 154

Skeleton Warriors x10: None - 80
Skeleton Warriors x24: Spear + Shield, Standard Bearer - 226
Light Horsemen x6: None - 84
Light Horsemen x6: None - 84

Tomb Guard x20: Standard Bearer, Icon of Rakaph - 292
Ushabti x3: None - 195
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85

Screaming Skull Catapult: None - 90

TOTAL: 1996

This is starting to look a lot better, however I must stress that Tomb Kings Magic phase works off from stacking incantations. There is a reason most Tomb Kings armies will always max out on characters.

Personally you would be better off dropping the Casket in favor of even another Prince here. I also can not stress enough how poorly points spent on spears are.

terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 21:18
This is starting to look a lot better, however I must stress that Tomb Kings Magic phase works off from stacking incantations. There is a reason most Tomb Kings armies will always max out on characters.

Personally you would be better off dropping the Casket in favor of even another Prince here. I also can not stress enough how poorly points spent on spears are.

So how about this, I'll just post the changes.

Liche Priest: Dispell Scroll, Serpent Staff - 165
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh, Hieratic Jar - 165
(Tomb Prince)

Skeleton Warriors x24: Shields, Standard Bearer - 202

Esco Thomson
28-08-2008, 22:49
So how about this, I'll just post the changes.

Liche Priest: Dispell Scroll, Serpent Staff - 165
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh, Hieratic Jar - 165
(Tomb Prince)

Skeleton Warriors x24: Shields, Standard Bearer - 202

Solid...

BUT

Come on, you knew there was a but, right? ;)

I would warn against spending points on the Serpent Staff, Priests fall flat in combat, if he is in combat, he's probably dead, so unless it is a great save, don't waste points on combat potential. Better option is to invest in a steed, and when combat appears to be unavoidable, have him run away in the movement phase, and if needed, have him incant himself into the sunset.

terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 23:07
Solid...

BUT

Come on, you knew there was a but, right? ;)

I would warn against spending points on the Serpent Staff, Priests fall flat in combat, if he is in combat, he's probably dead, so unless it is a great save, don't waste points on combat potential. Better option is to invest in a steed, and when combat appears to be unavoidable, have him run away in the movement phase, and if needed, have him incant himself into the sunset.

Ya, makes sense. I learned that the hard way last night playing a 1k point proxy battle against a friend.

So here's how it looks right now:

Liche High Priest: Neferra's Plaques, Cloak of the Dunes, Golden Ankhra - 340

Liche Priest: Skeletal Steed, Dispell Scroll - 148
Liche Priest: Collar of Shapesh, Hieratic Jar - 165
Tomb Prince: Light Armor, Crook & Flail of Radiance - 152 (Can't carry a flail and a shield, right?)

Skeleton Warriors x10: None - 80
Skeleton Warriors x24: Shields, Standard Bearer - 202
Skeleton Light Horsemen x6: None - 84
Skeleton Light Horsemen x6: None - 84

Tomb Guard x20: Standard Bearer, Icon of Rakaph - 268
Ushabti x3: None - 195
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85
Tomb Scorpion: None - 85

Screaming Skull Catapult: None - 90

TOTAL: 1978

Any tips on where to go with that last 22, if anywhere? Skulls of the Foe for my Catapult possibly?

Oenghus
28-08-2008, 23:22
Grab yourself some champions -- especially for any unit that's going to have a character. You want to be able to choose the challenge. Also, having champions allows you to do the Kings' patented "challenge-die-reraise-rechallenge" cycle if you get hit by something really nasty. Like a bloodthirster.

Kalec
28-08-2008, 23:30
Skulls of the foe is quite nice, probably the best way to spend those points with the possible exception of some champs.

An underrated magic item is the staff of ravening. Granted, S2 is low, but it puts out enough hits to rip apart T3 infantry and light cavalry, which could save you from a rank-negating flank charge or help get off a vital incantation.

terrrrrible
28-08-2008, 23:37
Adding a champion to the x24 warriors and x20 guards gives me 2k exactly. Sounds good.

Esco Thomson
28-08-2008, 23:50
The Crook and Flail does indeed use two hands, so a shield would only be of use for shooting. I personally like to setup my Princes with a survivability kit. If you run something like: Great Weapon, Armor of the Ages, Vambraces of the Sun, you will end up with one more wound than most lord level characters, and be taking away one attack in base. This makes it extremely unlikely that he will pop prior to striking back at a respectable strength six. Heal between rounds, rinse and repeat. His initiative is rather low, so versus enemy strikes first he will likely be going last anyways.

Secondly, I had assumed the shields were on light armored skeletons, which it appears they are not. The only reason to field shields on them over the bows is to go for the 4+ save (in hand to hand and in the front), without it, you are better off shaving the points and keeping them bare.

Next onto the Tomb Guard, I added the points up in AB and have them coming to 292 points, so you are off a bit there.

Also, you could drop one unit of Light Horsemen, and in exchange bump the remaining one to 7 strong with a champion in it. This will give you a way of dealing with really large and nasty heroes. Get them charged / charge a lord on a dragon / Bloodthirster, and challenge. The most he can get from the challenge is 6 CR, and you outnumber, so with the champion, you will only lose 6 models, and have him tied up. Go heal and do it again, or counter charge.

Here is a proposal to you:

If you make the change to the Prince's setup and do the swap with the horsemen, this leaves you enough points to give your shield warriors light armor, and a champion; as well as get a champion and musician for your Tomb Guard.

That seems really solid to me, but play around with the points and setups. Don't feel like I am trying to overpower you, or come down on your list. You still have to make it your own, just want to make sure you walk away with the best list you can muster.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Makaber
29-08-2008, 00:18
The last list there is starting to look pretty good. Personally, I don't think you need to run the skeletons 25. I find a block of 20 (including characters) is enough. Outnumber is nice for infantry that can actually kill something, like orcs or whatever, but skeletons are so horribly bad at figthting they're bound to lose the combat anyway. Their given role is as an anvil unit, where they don't need the extra redundancy. And even if you find yourself a few skeletons short and feel you absolutely need full rank bonus, you can always raise some back.

When it comes to winning combats, they'll need help, which they will get from some other unit in your army. And once you combine the US of those two units, you're guaranteed to outnumber anyway.

I also think they need full command: A champion to get challenges away from your important characters, and a musician because if you tie, and your opponent don't have one, he'll still auto break to fear.

So drop the skeletons to 20, give them light armour and full command, and that unit comes out to 205 points, almost the same as your existing one.