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Zoink
07-11-2005, 15:46
What was this game like?

Would it be a good basis for a WHFB campign? It looks kinda funky but it's one of the ones that passed me by at the time (oh when GW had so many games you couldn't play them all!).

Anyway any comments welcome, especially if you've tried to run a campaign for FB using it.

Crube
07-11-2005, 16:27
I played it when it first cam eout and it was a cool game. Seemed to work really well.

the hex tiles that came with it make it ideal IMO for running a WFB campaign. The events etc that are there are also pretty workable.

I would imagine that your main problem would be to get a copy. IIRC a decent copy will cost a fair bit on eBay. you could try gettin an incomplete set, as you can get away with the map tiles and rule book

Having said that, the minis that came with it for villages etc are pretty cool

Darkest Apostle
07-11-2005, 16:34
The only problem with it (like most campaigns) is getting all the players at around the table at any given time. But the expanded rules (pirates, wizards towers, siege engines) were really cool. Its gonna come back some day, though in what form I dont know.

kd7svh
07-11-2005, 18:42
Specialist Games did provide it as a free download (PDF rule book, tiles, etc) in their Warmaster section last year but it seems to have been taken down. I believe I still have all the PDFs they released somewhere if your interested.

Hercco
08-11-2005, 08:15
I have the Warmaster Mighty Empires PDF. If you need it just PM me.

Morph
08-11-2005, 12:41
It's a fun game on its own if you use all the random rules and things.

I wouldn't recommend it for a Warhammer campaign though, since it requires a lot of dedication on the parts of the players. The campaign will be very slow moving since you have to get everyone together, decide your moves, then fight all the Warhammer battles. Takes a long while.

Plus highly uneven games of Warhammer are less than fun.

Keravin
08-11-2005, 14:38
Fantastic fun as a game on its own and it does work for campaigns, but it really pays dividends to use all the rules they put in White Dwarf.

It also pays to have more than one set so you can have decent sized playing area and tactics.

Griefbringer
10-11-2005, 20:51
I have a set that I bought second-hand, but unfortunately I have never managed to get to play it properly. However, all the map tiles and plastic models in the box look quite neat, and I have also acquired for cheap a pile of the metal pieces they made.

However, all you really need are the rules - suitable hegagonal map tiles can be made by hand, and you can use cardboard counters or Warmaster models to represent the armies.

Anvilbrow
24-01-2006, 04:09
Having played in or run at least half a dozen ME-based Warhammer campaigns I can say with authority that they can be fantastic. Personally I love the unbalanced games of Warhammer, where living is not an option, simply taking as many of the furry bastards with you as possible is the ultimate goal (yes, I have gone to war too many times with Skaven rulers).

The key, as already implied, is that your group of players MUST be dedicated and record-keeping is essential. Having said that, I've played in a campaign that fell apart shortly after the first turn as well as a 20 player affair that lasted nearly a calendar year with meetings every week on a 4x8 map consisting of 4 sets and including Man-o-War and Warhammer Seige for appropriate battles (that's no exaggeration, I can point you to the website with photos of the map and)! I'm the guy in red leaning over the map.

http://www.gameempire.com/pics/stored.htm

I personally have 3+ sets, enough to run a good 12-16 person campaign quite comfortably on a 4x6 map. Storing it is problematic, although all of my hexes are magnetized as are the cites, fortresses, fleets, villages and the numerous special release sets such as seige trains, necropoli (word?), temples, mines, etc.

I'd be more than happy to give advice to anyone who is interested in running a ME campaign as well as many house rules for adding man-o-war to the campaign, new equinox magic, new army special rules (Beasts of Chaos, Lizardmen, Ogre Kingdoms etc) and other such goodies.

IF (and that is a BIG IF) you can manage to get at least 6 dedicated players
(8-10 is better) and two sets it can be hands-down, the best campaign ruleset ever. Keeping track of points, magic items, baggage and experience of all your banners (armies in ME terminology) can be daunting, but ultimately rewarding. Some of the best stories I have of 20 odd years of Warhammer games are from campaign generated games. Ask me about defeating 3000 points worth of Skaven with 1200 points of Dwarfs in 4th edition (can you say "Tactical Thermonuclear Runelord?").

Satan
26-01-2006, 08:50
Guess who got a copy complete with all extra rules from WD for less than 30$? :D
It's great for playing campaigns, you might want to limit the size of the map though, otherwise it might be a tad slow. It makes for great games, and I find that if you follow the points given in the ME rules (despite these being old...) you get lots of smaller games of warhammer instead of big ones which can be played out pretty quickly.

ArcheiosAggelos
30-01-2006, 22:55
It really is a great game, but I'll second the folks who say that it requires dedication. I'm working up a campaign of it for this summer or next which will use Fantasy Battle, Warmaster, and Man o War, which proving to be quite the challenge, but it will be worth it.

You really do need more than one set to play the big games, though. I've never played it as a stand alone game, but I've heard good things.

Griefbringer
02-02-2006, 13:26
I have the originally boxed set, which I bought second hand some years ago.

Looks interesting as a game, but to use it as a basis for WHFB campaign one needs to have a dedicated group (drawback of all map-based games).

Avian
02-02-2006, 13:44
Our local campaign is (or at least the first version of it was) based on the ME rules. Our local games club has a copy of the box and we use the counters and used to use the tiles.

Can't really say the rules impressed me much, too much "Roll a D6 and see if something interesting happens"* and some parts of it were horribly unbalanced (play Undead, hope you find a Necropolis, potentially get several thousand points extra for your army for free).



I personally have 3+ sets, enough to run a good 12-16 person campaign quite comfortably on a 4x6 map. Storing it is problematic, although all of my hexes are magnetized as are the cites, fortresses, fleets, villages and the numerous special release sets such as seige trains, necropoli (word?), temples, mines, etc.
What I did was photograph the map using a digicam and then write a little script using PHP reading from an SQL database to draw in invasions and control markers:

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~tarjeia/trondhammer/06/map.jpg

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~tarjeia/trondhammer/06/round2.jpg


* also a recurring theme in the General's Compendium, I'm sad to say.

Anvilbrow
08-03-2006, 00:49
While I agree that it can be unbalanced, that's what draws me to it. I f I want a nice balanced game I go to a tournament. Mighty Empires for me is more about the story than the outcome. Take on a 2000 point list with your 500 points and you quickly come to realize that winning isn't really an option, but taking as many of the enemy with you as possible certainly is a noble cause! And it often leads to some really entertaining battles.

Avian
08-03-2006, 10:17
Yeeees, to a certain degree I agree with you, but in my experience playing 500 pts versus 2000 gets dull very quickly and either leads to a massacre in turn 3 or a game of Hunt the Skinks. That's why I added certain options into the campaign to make games more interesting.

For example, on monday my Ogres sent 600 pts of my 1650 pt army to aid my team mate's Empire army in a battle against our Orc neighbours. In the normal case, my remaining 1050 pts would not have been able to do much when attacking our neighbours and any such battle would have been very dull (three previous campaign seasons have taught me this). This is where the option to Raid comes in. The opponent gets reduced to the same amount of points as you have, but the result of the battle gets shifted three levels in his favour.
That led to a much more interesting battle and though I didn't manage to do much, my General splatted his General who has now ended up with a loathing for magic items, refusing to carry any (understandable since all his Ward saves failed).

So telling a story is essential, but "Big army splats little army" is not an entertaining story in the long run.

Anvilbrow
10-03-2006, 02:47
I'll agree with you on that to a point. Assuming you play Pitched Battles, the games can be very one-sided. However, we use a series of factors to determine the scenario played to even the playing field to a degree. In addition, our current rules allow significantly smaller armies to manipulate the terrain, deployment and ability to go first due to their smaller, more maneuverable size (call it taking the high ground or something like that). In addition, people have learned to respect the 1-2 punch of a 500 point banner followed by a 2000 point banner. The entire nature of the game changes, as does how you play, when the objective is either to A) cause as much damage as possible before you die or B) avoid damage entirely if possible against someone who has not a care for combat results and table quarters etc.

It should be mentioned that in our version (which has evolved over the last three editions) losses are determined as a percentage of banner destroyed or fleeing, not VPs. This makes it entirely possible for a small banner to actually get a "strategic" win. In addition, some games become assassination attempts because in our rules, if a character dies, there is a chance that the magic tems he or she carried are lost to that player for the remainder of the campaign season or even the entire campaign (okay so you're really assassinating the items, but you get my meaning I hope).

We also keep track of experience and advances for our characters and units somewhat in the manner of third edition with its +1 elite, +2 elite etc. All told, it makes for a very detailed campaign experience, thus my warnings about the dedication it takes to pull it off.

On another note Avian, I really like the method you illustrated for map-making and tracking. Unfortunately, I didn't understand half of what you said, I am by no means computer proficient. I'd like to do something like that for ongiong campaigns as a way for players to ponder the map without having to go to the store, perhaps even submitting orders online if they are going to miss a week.

I'd like to hear more about the "shifting the result three levels" option you mention, and how you determine winner/loser in such games (if you don't mind).

Avian
10-03-2006, 16:43
I'd like to hear more about the "shifting the result three levels" option you mention, and how you determine winner/loser in such games (if you don't mind).
Well, we use a Random Scenario Generator, which has evolved from Gav's original version and has been tested for something like 200 games now and gradually refined. It uses missions which are worth a number of Vps (10% of the size of the enemy army for each of your 2 missions you succeed in).
Degrees of victory are calculated in pretty much the normal manner (though the thresholds are generally significantly higher).

In the case of Raids, they work like this (cut and past from rules):

5.9 Raids
When declaring an invasion, a player can declare that he is launching a raid rather than a normal invasion. This option is intended for those times when a player has a much smaller army than the one he is attacking (for example because he has sent away one or more Support Contingents) and the intent is to make the battle more interesting than the normal “Massacre in two turns” or “Hunt the Skinks” that these uneven battles often turn into. The effect of making a raid is as follows:
• The defending army size will be the same as the attacker’s army size (unless it would normally be smaller). So if a 950 pt army is attacking an 1800 pt army, both players would field 950 pt forces.
• The result of the battle will be shifted three steps in favour of the defender, up to a maximum of a massacre in favour of the defender (see below). So anything worse than a victory for the attacker counts as a massacre in favour of the defender.
• Players do not have to field their Generals in raids; a Senior Officer could act as a substitute General instead (see section 8.5).


Table 5.4 - Result of a Raid
Result* => Counts as
Massacre => Draw
Solid victory => Minor loss
Minor victory => Solid loss
Draw => Massacred
Minor loss => Massacred
Solid loss => Massacred
Massacred => Massacred
* As seen from the attacker’s point of view.

Raids are intended to be used when you have a much smaller army than the one you are attacking (there is no point in raiding a smaller army). You have a decent chance of razing the enemy territory (you just need to win and have an equally large army) and you avoid the dullness of a very uneven battle. The task of the player is to estimate when it’s more effective to fight a regular battle and when it’s more effective to raid.

Raids where the players have armies of only a 1000 pts or less should be played on a 4’ by 4’ table.


Razing, in the campaign, means that the owning realm has to spend resources to rebuild the territory at the end of the turn or get no benefits from the territory next turn (amongst other things, the number of un-razed territories you have dictate the size of your armies).




On another note Avian, I really like the method you illustrated for map-making and tracking. Unfortunately, I didn't understand half of what you said, I am by no means computer proficient. I'd like to do something like that for ongiong campaigns as a way for players to ponder the map without having to go to the store, perhaps even submitting orders online if they are going to miss a week.
Uh, well, it does take some level of computer proficiency to make it work. Basically there is a table (well, several tables, really) with an entry for each territory on the map which can be edited from our campaign website. Then the script that displays the map reads from the table and draws in the appropriate coloured dots and arrows on top of the map. Once a battle has been played, the arrow will turn grey and if the battle went well enough in favour of the attackers (Solid victory or Massacre) the territory changes hands and colour.


http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/trondhammer/07/round2.jpg
Map at the start of the turn

http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/images/round2_now.jpg
Map at the moment (as you can see those Yellow bastards have taken one of our nice, Red territories over on the west coast)