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View Full Version : I just read Codex Necrons for the first time; some thoughts



Magos Explorator
30-08-2008, 10:13
As the title says, I have just finished reading Codex:Necrons. Mainly because when I was last actively involved in the hobby there wasn't one, and I wanted to see how their background had developed. Please bear in mind this is also pretty much the only fluff I've read on the matter, so if these points are expanded on in other books then it's news to me!

It seems fairly heavily implied, then, that there is a C'Tan on Mars (Void Dragon?) and a schism is forming within the Mechanicus, between those who see it as the Machine God as opposed to the Emperor being the Omnissiah. The reading also suggested to me that humanity's technological development was partially due to reverse-engineering of Necron artefacts. Perhaps this is what led to the Iron Men/AI techno-heresy in the Dark Age of Technology?

I am thinking along the lines that Asirnoth (the dragon who Ferrus Manus wrestled and got his metal hands from) is probably not the Void Dragon, although could've been some other Necron. My reasoning for this is that the Void Dragon would've been on Mars (not Medusa) and probably asleep at this point (unless it awoke earlier but hasn't been active. Perhaps the Machine Spirits of the Imperium are all manifestations of the Void Dragon? Now there's a scary thought). However, I did think it was interesting that the book contains quotes about the Machine from the Iron Hands. I wonder, with their ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, whether they're aware on some level of the Void Dragon.

The story of Corteswain was also pretty cool. Am I correct in assuming that he saw the Outsider, rather than the Void Dragon? That'd fit with the Dyson sphere, as Corteswain's description sounds like being on the inside of one. The questions, then, would be:
- Why was Corteswain able to escape? Did the Outsider let him, knowing this may spread fear of the C'Tan/result in the exposure of the Void Dragon, thus hampering the other Star God's plans? (As I get the picture they're fairly competitive with each other).
- If it was the Outsider, how did Corteswain make the link between it and the Machine God/Void Dragon? Aside from the Necron ship landing on Mars, was there any other reason to suspect a connection?

I don't really understand Flayed Ones (why do they flay their targets? Just to scare others?) or Pariahs (it implies they're in some way not Necrontyr but humans made into Necrons?). Any more info on these two?

Finally, did the C'Tan insert the Pariah gene into humanity, or are they merely taking advantage of it to smother the influence of the warp?

What do people think? Anything else you'd recommend I read? I wonder what GW will do with it.

ChrisMurray
30-08-2008, 10:54
It's been a long time since I read my Necron Codex, and I don't have it on me at the moment but I'll try and answer what I can. My replie's are in the quote below in capitals.



As the title says, I have just finished reading Codex:Necrons. Mainly because when I was last actively involved in the hobby there wasn't one, and I wanted to see how their background had developed. Please bear in mind this is also pretty much the only fluff I've read on the matter, so if these points are expanded on in other books then it's news to me!

It seems fairly heavily implied, then, that there is a C'Tan on Mars (Void Dragon?) and a schism is forming within the Mechanicus, between those who see it as the Machine God as opposed to the Emperor being the Omnissiah. The reading also suggested to me that humanity's technological development was partially due to reverse-engineering of Necron artefacts. Perhaps this is what led to the Iron Men/AI techno-heresy in the Dark Age of Technology?

THIS IS ONE OF THE THEORIES GOING AROUND-DO A SEARCH YOU'LL FIND MASSIVE TOPICS ON IT (PLENTY OF READING). I THINK MOST PEOPLE NOW AGREE THAT IT IS THE VOID DRAGON ON MARS AND HOPEFULLY GW WILL EXPAND ON THIS IN THE NEW CODEX. AS FOR YOUR REVERSE ENGINEERING THEORY, SOME PEOPLE THINK THE VD IS SOMEHOW CONTROLLING MANKINDS TECH DEVELOPEMENT, THERES A STORY OF HOW A SCIENTIST WENT SEARCING IN THE MARS ARCHIVES TO LOOK FOR NEW TECH BUT DISAPEARED AFTER BEING ATTACKED BY CREATURES THAT HIGHLY RESEMBLE WRAITHS.


I am thinking along the lines that Asirnoth (the dragon who Ferrus Manus wrestled and got his metal hands from) is probably not the Void Dragon, although could've been some other Necron. My reasoning for this is that the Void Dragon would've been on Mars (not Medusa) and probably asleep at this point (unless it awoke earlier but hasn't been active. Perhaps the Machine Spirits of the Imperium are all manifestations of the Void Dragon? Now there's a scary thought). However, I did think it was interesting that the book contains quotes about the Machine from the Iron Hands. I wonder, with their ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, whether they're aware on some level of the Void Dragon.

THIS IS ALSO ANOTHER THEORY, BUT WE KNOW IT CAN'T BE THE VOID DRAGON AS YOU SAID HE WAS ON MARS ASLEEP AT THE TIME. I PERSONALLY DON'T BELIEVE IT TO BE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE NECRONS, BUT THERE ARE GOOD ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST IT.



The story of Corteswain was also pretty cool. Am I correct in assuming that he saw the Outsider, rather than the Void Dragon? That'd fit with the Dyson sphere, as Corteswain's description sounds like being on the inside of one. The questions, then, would be:
- Why was Corteswain able to escape? Did the Outsider let him, knowing this may spread fear of the C'Tan/result in the exposure of the Void Dragon, thus hampering the other Star God's plans? (As I get the picture they're fairly competitive with each other).
- If it was the Outsider, how did Corteswain make the link between it and the Machine God/Void Dragon? Aside from the Necron ship landing on Mars, was there any other reason to suspect a connection?

I DON'T REMEMBER WHICH STORY THIS IS SORRY, IF IT'S THE ONE ABOUT THE SERVITOR\MAGOS WHATEVER HE WAS BEING INTERIGATED THEN I BELIEVE IT WAS THE OUTSIDER AND HE WAS ALLOWED TO ESCAPE.


I don't really understand Flayed Ones (why do they flay their targets? Just to scare others?) or Pariahs (it implies they're in some way not Necrontyr but humans made into Necrons?). Any more info on these two?

FLAYED ONES ARE ALL ABOUT FEAR, ALSO REMEMBER THAT NECRON WEOPONS ALL "FLAY" THEY'RE TARGET.

PARIAHS ARE MADE FROM HUMANS WHO HAVE THE PARIAH GENE. THE GENE WAS POSSIBLE INTRODUCED BY THE DECIVER MELENIA AGO AS IT NEGATES THE WARP AND THE NECRONS WERE TRYING TO REMOVE THE WARP ABILITYIES OF THE OLD ONES CREATION.


Finally, did the C'Tan insert the Pariah gene into humanity, or are they merely taking advantage of it to smother the influence of the warp?

ANSWERED IN THE ABOVE.

What do people think? Anything else you'd recommend I read? I wonder what GW will do with it.

THE END OF DARK APOSTLE HAS A NICE NECRON BIT IN IT WHICH IS POSSIBLY INSIDE THE DYSON SPHERE. THE FOLLOW UP BOOK WHEN IT'S RELEASED SHOULD BE MORE HEAVILY NECRON.


Sorry about using capitals, not meant to be shouting just trying to make my comments different for OP text.

Koryphaus
30-08-2008, 13:35
There's a follow-up book? Sweet, I'm sold already!

Magos Explorator
30-08-2008, 14:32
Thanks for the comments, ChrisMurray. Is Dark Apostle part of a series? If so, are they any good? The Corteswain story is the one where the guy in the cell's being questioned, yes, and he's torn out his bionics.

ChrisMurray
30-08-2008, 15:43
Well here's the details of the next book, dark disciple, due for release in dec. It doesn't specificly mention the necrons as being in it but as the artifact was stolen from them and there's a mysterious faction it really does have to be them.

http://www.blacklibrary.co.uk/product.asp?prod=60100181081&type=Book

Dark apostle isn't listed as going to be part of a series but this is the sequal so who knows about a third.

Gatsby
30-08-2008, 22:51
ooo a post involving necrons, i have to be involved somehow...

for the OP in my opinion Necron Fluff is the best fluff there is (and the coolest army:chrome:) you can pick up on some necron fluff in other codex's as well just gotta look around.

Ive never actualy read any Black Library books, are there any based around necrons?

Lord Malorne
30-08-2008, 23:10
Xenology is a good one.

Kage2020
30-08-2008, 23:11
No, it is not. It's awful. But it is based around Necrons, so that at least is true.

Kage

Lord Malorne
30-08-2008, 23:20
I thought it was good so there :p.

Lord Malorne

Lord Damocles
30-08-2008, 23:59
It seems fairly heavily implied, then, that there is a C'Tan on Mars (Void Dragon?) and a schism is forming within the Mechanicus, between those who see it as the Machine God as opposed to the Emperor being the Omnissiah. The reading also suggested to me that humanity's technological development was partially due to reverse-engineering of Necron artefacts. Perhaps this is what led to the Iron Men/AI techno-heresy in the Dark Age of Technology?
We can be as certain as is possible that the Void Dragon is on Mars ('Visions of a Sleeping God', Eldar codex map, Necron attack on Mars, Cortswain ect.

On the technology point, 'Codex: Imperialis' says that mankind's downfall during the Age of Strife was due to their over-reliance on technology. I'd propose that the Necrons were only indirectly responsible therefore ( although given the age of Imperialis, this could change).

As a side note, technology which we know for certain is reverse engineered include the C'tan Phase sword (Thorian Sourcebook) and the Eversor stasis pods ('Deus Ex Mechanicus').



I am thinking along the lines that Asirnoth (the dragon who Ferrus Manus wrestled and got his metal hands from) is probably not the Void Dragon, although could've been some other Necron. My reasoning for this is that the Void Dragon would've been on Mars (not Medusa) and probably asleep at this point (unless it awoke earlier but hasn't been active. Perhaps the Machine Spirits of the Imperium are all manifestations of the Void Dragon? Now there's a scary thought). However, I did think it was interesting that the book contains quotes about the Machine from the Iron Hands. I wonder, with their ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, whether they're aware on some level of the Void Dragon.
Asirnoth was probably a Wraith-type construct. It's almost certain that it was a Necron of some kind since the valley it came from had 'mysterious monolithic structures' or somesuch which is like GW code for 'Necrons are here!' ;)

The Iron Hands are interesting. It's possible that they worship the machine rather than the Machine God. Certainly their attampts to move conciousness from flesh to machine (Paulian Blantar only had his brain remaining as far as organic componants go; and tank crews are sometimes bound into their vehicles ('Index Astertes: Chaos tanks')) suggests to me that they may be towards the more radical end of the Ad Mech spectrum.
Interestingly one source said that Ferrus Manus may have been taken to Mars after being defeated by Fulgrim (although the Iron Hands denied this). Sadly I've forgotton where this is from (2nd ed. somewhere?). This has been firmly retconned by the Horus Heresy series which has Fulgim taking Ferrus' head to Horus... but maybe there was some truth in the Iron Hands having a leader on Mars...



I don't really understand Flayed Ones (why do they flay their targets? Just to scare others?) or Pariahs (it implies they're in some way not Necrontyr but humans made into Necrons?). Any more info on these two?

Finally, did the C'Tan insert the Pariah gene into humanity, or are they merely taking advantage of it to smother the influence of the warp?
Flayed ones are all about causing fear - and what could be scarier than a robotic killing machine wearing your friend's skin like a sweater?
The 'Tau and Necrin Collector's Guide' has an interesting tidbit about Necrons who are able to infiltrate an otherwise inpeneterable fortress by disguising themselves as men. Presumeably this is refering to flayed Ones.

Pariahs are indeed humans (whether other races can be turned is up for debate). There's a quote in the Codex along the lines of 'In ages past the C'tan planted a terrible seed in humanity, whivh is only now comming to fruition'. This and Pariahs being 'the next phase of Necron evolution (text next to their unit entry) suggest that the Pariah gene was of C'tan origin.


Sorry about the poor quotes - I haven't got my codex to hand at the moment. Well, that and it's 1am :D

Khaine's Messenger
31-08-2008, 00:27
This has been firmly retconned by the Horus Heresy series which has Fulgim taking Ferrus' head to Horus... but maybe there was some truth in the Iron Hands having a leader on Mars...

And Horus had half the Mechanicus in his pocket, up to the Fabricator General himself. While it's certainly true that the current Horus Heresy background makes Ferrus' rest on Mars unlikely, it's not ruled out entirely. If the Mechanicus HH book doesn't even touch on this as an easter egg, I'll be a little disappointed. Of course, as far as the Iron Hands are concerned per the novel Iron Hands, it's not so much something they deny as something which they simply believe to be untrue. There's actually scriptural debate over the transcription/translation of texts as to whether Manus was "taken to the crucible of mars" or "taken by adepts of mars to Crucible," leading to one of the plot points of that novel. Amusing for a chapter that prides itself on replacing fallible flesh with machine-like precision. This coming from an Iron Hands fanboy. ;)

However, I'll point out that the 5th edition rumor-mill for the Necrons has thrown into doubt the exact nature of the current tabletop C'tan, or any manifestation of the C'tan one may run into. It's entirely possible that a loony lord with powers similar to the current tt C'tan existed on Medusa. We'll probably never know, though. I personally preferred my interpretation where the C'tan could transmit themselves between their bases and so the whole hoopla about their sleeping places was pointless, but I suppose that's not really thematic and probably doesn't match the intent of the background as presented/formatted.

As to the Mechanicus...it's always been schisming. There was a war when the Emperor showed up, there was a war when the Horus Heresy broke out, and the AM is just as willing to turn on its own as the Imperium. Adding the Necrons in just adds another layer of complications as far as I'm concerned.

Corteswain is a bit of a mystery as far as I'm concerned. However, the degree to which the Outsider can be said to "plan" may be incredibly limited and just about as convoluted and self-defeating as Tzeentch. So...I dunno.