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Gadhrain
30-08-2008, 19:54
Hi everyone,
First thread I've started btw after years of lurking. :)

Anyway, what does people think of the new DE item Pendant of Khaeleth and how do you deal with it? Cant think anything else then that the guy who wrote the book completely ____ when he created this item...

DE hero, 2+/1+ AS (depending on if he is on a dark steed or cold one) plus rolling equal or lower then strength to ignore the hit (ie equal to 3+ ward vs S4 for 35pts). What do you do against that?

/Gadhrain

Little Aaad
30-08-2008, 20:25
Well if he has all of that, he wont hit hard. So charge them and kill the unit hes with. Take the more vulnerable targets out in the unit and then he wont kill much. Then watch him as he flees and that he wastes 35+ points on worthless protection.

vahouth
30-08-2008, 22:17
Well if he has all of that, he wont hit hard. So charge them and kill the unit hes with. Take the more vulnerable targets out in the unit and then he wont kill much. Then watch him as he flees and that he wastes 35+ points on worthless protection.

If he is inside a Black Guard unit, that's trouble.
Just imagine that there's also an assassin in there :eek:

theunwantedbeing
30-08-2008, 22:27
How do you deal with it?
Like all uber tough things, you deal with it by not dealing with it.

Apply that force somewhere else, and stop him from being able to get any use out of that ward save by not letting him get near the troops that will struggle to deal with him.

Mozzamanx
31-08-2008, 00:03
Hatred, a Lance and a Cold One is hardly weak offense. That's probably as hitty, if not more so, than other characters, while being inpenetrable.

That said, he can't save against pursuit. Just bowl him over with combat resolution from ranks, banners, flanks etc.

Templar_Of_The_Night
31-08-2008, 00:47
i'm a dark elf player and thought i would add my piece. The pendent does make him a nice character espcially against heavy hitters like chaos knights and other equally powerful characters. This main way to deal with him has been mentioned use rank bonus and flanks to make him run, but that being said thats not exactly going to be the easiest of things to do. Depending on how many points your playing you'll prob be looking at a lord with this item, that being the case he's going to have a nice powerful bodyguard to boost him, the weakness i found with dark elves is their lack of armour (knights being the exception) rely on your shooting and magic to weaken the unit before following throught with a powerful charge of your own

The Inspector
31-08-2008, 01:40
How do you deal with it?
Like all uber tough things, you deal with it by not dealing with it.

Exactly.

As an aside, no amount of mad-crazy protection can prevent a character from being destroyed when run down from a broken combat. Either focus on killing the unit he is in, or his mount if he is on a monster. This is particularly well-executed by fear causing units, and for extra assurance a unit of at least five-strong could be placed in the flee-zone to assure it's destruction.

This is how people have been killing Slann for years.

LKHERO
31-08-2008, 02:50
Well if he has all of that, he wont hit hard. So charge them and kill the unit hes with. Take the more vulnerable targets out in the unit and then he wont kill much. Then watch him as he flees and that he wastes 35+ points on worthless protection.

What do you mean all that? It's only 60 points for Armor of Midnight and Pendant of Kaleth..

Shamfrit
31-08-2008, 11:40
Or even better, give him the full mundane armour upgrades with a Cold One for a what, 2+ save anyway?

This frees up more magic item slots, and makes the unit he's with cause fear and stupidity on LD 10 is hardly a re-occuring chance.

Str 6 attacks from the lance on the charge, or if you want to give him a magic weapon you've plenty of scope to do so.

But yes, run the damned thing down, or wade in with something Str 6 with lots of attacks, like an 8 attack Saurus Lord etc.

DOS
31-08-2008, 12:23
As HE, if attacking the mount or unit the character is with to gain CR is not an option;

Steal Soul, lore of Death
Lure them into a challenge with Caradryan
Take them out of the fray with an impervious Arch mage (Folariath's robe, talisman of Saphery)
Vaul's Unmaking ofcourse

Best bets.

Scythe
01-09-2008, 19:39
As a dark elf player, I'll add my bit. I wouldn't worry too much about the Lord. Indeed, with the Pendant and a 1+ save he is almost unkillable. But he doesn't really deal damage comparable to combat characters. After all, he is still only an elf. I mainly have my lord hanging around for leadership, not for his amazing killyness. Don't put too much effort in taking down the lord the direct way. Just go for combat resolution on the unit the lord is with. Ward saves do not help you when you get trampled to the ground.

Apart from that, if you have magic item destroying powers, you could always use those. And there's the scraplauncher. A S2 killing blow almost seens to be made to deal with characters like this. :p

DarkStarr
02-09-2008, 06:58
well i have a de army and ill tell you what in hth with a unit of black guard you wont kill this guy, and he will kill whatever ubber amazing lord/hero you can immagine, that being said, black guard have a 5 up armor save and are not immune to magic and shooting, problem solved, once his unit is dead to the last man from shooting, he is breakable, just surround him in whatever unit hes in and beat them in combat.

do not and i meen do not even consider charging a unit of black guard with the banner that strikes first, and one of those guys in it, shoot them or magic them, gl. oh and if you dont think he doesnt do that much damage your wrong, w a base str of 4, a lowlie sword of might str 5 with eternal hatred in a black guard always re rolling is nothing to sneeze at, now if he has gw in said unit with always strikes first banner, even worse on the recieving end of things, do not underestimate his killing power or youll be dead like all my opponents.

Valaraukar
02-09-2008, 08:54
Simplest ways I have found is using items/spells which do not have a strength and so no ward save i.e the slaanesh and nurgle pass a Ld or T(obviously the better of the two) test or take D6 wounds no ASv allowed so he's got a - save from armour and a - save from his ward. Of course they're unlikely to let you get the spell off if they know what they're doing. There is also the creeping death strength 2 hits I think or is it 1? With no ASv allowed so bugger all ward save too. For O&G there is the item which means models in base contact can't take wards coupled with the -3 ASv weapon. Many others I am sure.

Avian
02-09-2008, 13:02
Realistically, most combat characters aren't really something you can kill with even quite capable troops and anyway it isn't usually critical to kill a DE fighter lord (not like a Vampire Count or a Greater Daemon).

So yes, this item IS insanely cheap, but it doesn't break the game.

Scythe
02-09-2008, 17:22
well i have a de army and ill tell you what in hth with a unit of black guard you wont kill this guy, and he will kill whatever ubber amazing lord/hero you can immagine, that being said, black guard have a 5 up armor save and are not immune to magic and shooting, problem solved, once his unit is dead to the last man from shooting, he is breakable, just surround him in whatever unit hes in and beat them in combat.


That's the weakness... putting him in a unit of Black Guard makes them even a bigger target as they usually are. Generally speaking, I think he is best in some cheap troops like warriors in the center of the battlefield, radiating his Ld10 and benefitting from the units large static combat resolution, while protecting the unit against killer characters at the same time.

- Human
03-09-2008, 01:06
Yeah, the item is way undercosted, but the characters wielding it don't have that many offensive options really. Not a whole lot to worry about. Think of it as an annoyance of netlings that happens AFTER hitting and wounding and saves, instead of before ;).

Brother xavier
03-09-2008, 10:20
A common way I've seen it used is on a lord with the S6 magic halberd, a 2+/1+ AS, and mounted on a Dragon.

You can't kill him in combat as the armour save and ward save cover each other.

Maybe use a low strength weapon that ignores AS, or Magic such as Lore of Death's Steal Soul.

apbevan
03-09-2008, 16:37
Curse of Years which wounds on a 5+ then 4+ ect, that does not have a strength value and does not allow Armour Saves works quite well.

Cast this on a Dread Lord mounted on a Dragon. If I didn't have a miscast on the next turn the it would have been a Dead lord.

Scythe
03-09-2008, 17:45
Curse of Years which wounds on a 5+ then 4+ ect, that does not have a strength value and does not allow Armour Saves works quite well.

Cast this on a Dread Lord mounted on a Dragon. If I didn't have a miscast on the next turn the it would have been a Dead lord.

The curse only does a single wound if the roll is failed. It isn't all that powerfull against characters on their own.

Conotor
04-09-2008, 03:38
Never attack dark elf heroes?

Conscript#1404
04-09-2008, 04:10
I hate to break up this party, but I think that in a 2000 point game, an unkillable lord that deals out 4 s5 attacks isn't bad. He wont do much damage to troops, and killing dark elf units isn't exactly tough. Shoot it up and charge it with a small, fear causing unit.

Repsajanus
04-09-2008, 16:30
charging dark elves is not always that easy with harpies and dark riders in the core section you know ... DE are pretty fast, and they've got some nice shooting too.
btw, the dreadlord can easily get 4 s6 attacks and with caledor's bane s7 on the charge.

Akuma
05-09-2008, 07:29
How About BsB Master with Kaleth and Soulrender in a unit of BG with Hag Greaf Banner and Tower Master with ring of hotek ? - Apart from shooting you've gaint nothing on this unit :D

Ps Does anyone knows what colours hag greaf should be painted with ?

DarkStarr
05-09-2008, 09:00
yeah ok so basicly shoot the unit hes with, or if hes with a really crappy unit like warriors ignore him, the point of putting him in a unit of black guard is to get the bennifits of hatred every round and striking first, so he can challenge the nastiest lords around and laugh at them even if hes only a hero, 1v1 he is over powered, shoot his unit, or his dragon then ignore him.

DarkStarr
05-09-2008, 09:04
yeah ok so basicly shoot the unit hes with, or if hes with a really crappy unit like warriors ignore him, or just beat them in combat and make them break. the point of putting him in a unit of black guard is to get the bennifits of hatred every round, striking first, and being stubborn w leadership 10, so he can challenge the nastiest lords around and laugh at them even if hes only a hero, 1v1 he is over powered, shoot his unit, or his dragon then ignore him. woops sorry bout the double post.

Cyrush
05-09-2008, 15:42
the point of putting him in a unit of black guard is to get the bennifits of hatred every round and striking first

He gets striking first but I don't think he gets eternal hatred, unit abilities are no conferred onto characters in them.

innerwolf
05-09-2008, 16:10
He gets striking first but I don't think he gets eternal hatred, unit abilities are no conferred onto characters in them.

Amen, brother. This character is already overpowered, so the last we not-DE players want is another benefit to the Black Guard deathstar.

My WE heroes don't benefit from Wardancer dances. Yours don't get Elite Warrior.

Scythe
05-09-2008, 18:29
How About BsB Master with Kaleth and Soulrender in a unit of BG with Hag Greaf Banner and Tower Master with ring of hotek ? - Apart from shooting you've gaint nothing on this unit :D


So it dies to shooting and magic (remember, the ring only works on wizards within 12"). It isn't particulary challenging to kill a bunch of expensive T3 5+ save elves.

Besides, the pendant would almost be wasted in such unit. With always strike first combined with a lot of attacks from the unit and S6 from the lord, not much is going to strike back. You won't need a save when your target is dead already.

innerwolf
05-09-2008, 18:52
...(remember, the ring only works on wizards within 12").

And also on spells which affect one point inside this radius. I'm nearly sure the new rules are like this.

Nomad
05-09-2008, 19:37
And also on spells which affect one point inside this radius. I'm nearly sure the new rules are like this.

Yes. It affects "Any wizard (friend or foe) attempting to cast or target a spell with 12" of the bearer".

Akuma
06-09-2008, 11:48
"So it dies to shooting and magic (remember, the ring only works on wizards within 12"). It isn't particulary challenging to kill a bunch of expensive T3 5+ save elves.

Besides, the pendant would almost be wasted in such unit. With always strike first combined with a lot of attacks from the unit and S6 from the lord, not much is going to strike back. You won't need a save when your target is dead already."

1 of all

As pointed by others - You wont be able to magic it - and they produce a 12" boubble to prevent you from nuking anything else in it ...

2 of all

Put 5 harpies in front and you wont shoot it down that easly ... or just go after shooters with your harpies - DE have the most exelnt ways of dealing with enemy shooting - safe for dwarfs no other army can beat them in it ...

3 of all

I said master - not a dreadlord - 1 he is BSB so the unit rolls 9ld with a reroll ... - As for ASF and not worth it thingy - the main purpose of such character is to take away the other thing able to deal with such regiment - buffed up character - it doesnt metter if you have ASF or not if you are getting hit by tooled up chaos lord - he will kill 5 BG ( out of usual 15 ) so in 3 turns he will most certainly grind the unit down - on the other hand - if you have such master - you can go for enemy bloodthrister and most often than dont lought as he tries to put a wound on you ...

This unit is only vanurable to a) shooting b) chariots ( impact hits ) - but both can be taken care by 1 55 pts unit of harpies for flee and screening :)

Yes DE have some sicknes in them - not as much as VC or DL - and thats because I just LOVE the new AB

PS CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO PAINT THE COULORS OF HAG GREAF - BIG BIG PREEETY PLEEES :( ( I want to start painting but i dont know what coulours to use ;( )