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Lord_Crull
30-08-2008, 21:36
It seems whenever the topic is mentioned people rail against it. Many SW players flatly refuse to believe that it could happen. Some have said that no Space Wolf has ever gone tratior.

GW has stated that the only Space Marine chapter which has never lost a member to Chaos if the Grey Knights, period. End of Story. It is supported in the codex.

The codex is an offical Gw publication that takes precedence over any other publication. The Wolf of Fenris if offical and trumps any other non-codex source. Wulfen are stated to have been protected from chaos but the regular space wolves are vulnerable to Chaos. The codex trumps the Ragnar novels.

olmsted
31-08-2008, 00:16
as before we dont like the idea of wolves turning traitor but and i do mean BUT its not unheard of for individuals and squads to turn traitor or up and leave.


with the space wolves the canis helix helps wolves resist the powers of chaos and those that have gone fully over are even stronger against the powers of chaos as the helix has been strengthened through the transformation into a wulfen.


wolves may turn traitor or they may turn renegade (still loyal to the Imperium BUT not the current great wolf (Logan)).

so there you have it. we dont like it and we shove our fingers into our ears going lalaalalal i cant hear you!

but as i said almost every chapter has a marine or two that goes rogue. most are killed on sight if they are caught before they can make good their escape others get away.

Clockwork-Knight
31-08-2008, 00:31
In the most current Chaos Space Marine Codex, there is a short story about how the infamous Huron Blackheart manages to defeat a Space Wolf Strike Cruiser, and the surviving Space Wolves join him, impressed by his strength, his ***** thinking, and the promises of loot and absolute freedom that you can do (even more than what Space Wolves already do in contrast to the strict Ultramarines). Imagine killing innocents just for fun, having nobody to protect than yourself, no restrictions by superiors, and no obligations. This things apply to all Space Marines turned traitor. And then, some go further to become true Chaos Space Marines. Space Wolves do undergo mental brainwashing like every other chapter in the galaxy. Once this brainwashing fails, every Space Marine, be it the valourus Space Wolves of Fenrir, the heroic Ultramarines of Macragge, the Blood Angels of Baal, or whatever chapter exists, non so far could resist the lure to abandon its duty toward mankind and just do whatever they want with this phantastic new body of theirs.

Some say that the geneseed of the primarchs, being infused with warp-powers in the first place, makes it quite normal for the Space Marines to listen to the whispers and promises of the Fell Powers. This is why all Space Marines are brainwashed all the time, after every long mission, and after every contacts with the traitorous forces of the warp-spawn that call themselves the Greater Gods of Chaos.

Lord_Crull
31-08-2008, 00:41
I know of the story and that's what insipred this after reading about it in other threads. Now I understand that peice of fluff is somewhat disappointing for SW players, but it is canon.

don't get me wrong, I don't hate the Space Wolves, they are pretty cool, any chapter who can swig beer is good in my eyes. But to act like they can repel Hive Fleets with their bare hands and wrestle Bloodthirsters to the ground is wrong.

robertsjf
31-08-2008, 00:57
But to act like they can repel Hive Fleets with their bare hands and wrestle Bloodthirsters to the ground is wrong.

Bah! More like repel hive fleets with one hand and wrestle Bloodthirsters 2 at a time! Then again, they are Space Wolves....

olmsted
31-08-2008, 03:08
and our Leman Russ is the only primarch to beat the emperor in 2 out of 3 challanges.

and we do take on the nids with our bare hands and we do wrestle blood thirsters to the ground.


wulfen.... use their fangs and claws (bare hands & TEETH)

ranulf moved a land raider with his own brute strenght into a lava flow so his company could keep moving. (also as far as i know Wolf Lords are the only space marine commanders that can destroy an entire squad in one charge.)

clockwork-knight your wrong only a sicko or already disturbed person would ever take that deal. yes wolves do go renegade (theres a renegade wolf in the ultramarines book) however it is known that the space wolves are far more helpful to the surrounding imperial citizens then most other chapters and stand against the genocide that the =][= and munitorium multiple times.

to say that wolves would split just to do as they please is foolish and against the pack mentality. wolves would not split unless the entire squad split or they were abandoned or all alone. (the wolves in a squad are pretty much cub mates raised into marines together and die together)
,


just face it Space Wolves are better story tellers, drinkers, fighters, & just all round better then most if not all space marine chapters.

][nquist0r
31-08-2008, 03:49
Sure they dish, but all my TS marines have a ward saves =D

olmsted
31-08-2008, 04:13
btw your welcome for that.

Clockwork-Knight
31-08-2008, 04:56
clockwork-knight your wrong only a sicko or already disturbed person would ever take that deal. Ehrm, what do you think that a Space Wolf who discards his oath of servitude to the Imperium and Leman Russ is? Of course a Space Wolf becomes a psychopathic monster. All Space Marines will, once they shake down their mind shackle, think about how much superior they are to normal humans and just don't want to have to kiss buts to the Imperium anymore?

yes wolves do go renegade (theres a renegade wolf in the ultramarines book) however it is known that the space wolves are far more helpful to the surrounding imperial citizens then most other chapters and stand against the genocide that the =][= and munitorium multiple times. Yes, still loyal Space Wolves are like that. But renegade Space Wolves do not only abandon the principles of protecting mankind from all dangers, within as outside, they also start to become monstrous, uncaring, warmongering, and only thinking of themselves.
In the end, a Space Marine, no matter what chapter, is only a brainwashed killing machine that has to suppress all his desires for the goal to protect short-living humans who worship a rotten mummy and have forgotten that the man on the Golden Throne refused to not be seen as a god, but only as a man. Traitorous Space Wolves won't only have beer... They will start raping women, and seeing children cry because of the massacre that was done on their parents.

Don't forget, Space Wolves come from a primitive planet where such things happen all the time. The non-SM-inhabitants of Fenrir are neo-vikings enjoying raping and pillaging galore. After their "death", they get chosen, and brainwashed to become Space Knights fighting Space Orks, Space Elves, Space Insect-Dinosaurs, evil Space Knights, Space Demons, Space Robot-Zombies and Space Hindu in japanese manga-esque battle armour.

to say that wolves would split just to do as they please is foolish and against the pack mentality. wolves would not split unless the entire squad split or they were abandoned or all alone. (the wolves in a squad are pretty much cub mates raised into marines together and die together)And yet, there are lone wolves on earth that don't fit with their pack, and form their own or join another one. For the Space Wolves to do the same isn't incredible. In fact, they joined a new pack. That of Huron Blackheart, Tyrant of Badab and Master of the Red Corsairs, who sails the Maelstrom and promises riches and eternal freedom from the pitiful mortals that serve the High Lords of Terra. The Space Wolves only did what any normal wolf would do. Join somebody who has proven to be stronger by defeating you, just the same as Leman Russ was defeated by the Emperor. They joined the ultimate Alpha Male. And in this case, it was a fellow Space Marine with selfish desires.

olmsted
31-08-2008, 05:05
Ehrm, what do you think that a Space Wolf who discards his oath of servitude to the Imperium and Leman Russ is? Of course a Space Wolf becomes a psychopathic monster. All Space Marines will, once they shake down their mind shackle, think about how much superior they are to normal humans and just don't want to have to kiss buts to the Imperium anymore?
Yes, still loyal Space Wolves are like that. But renegade Space Wolves do not only abandon the principles of protecting mankind from all dangers, within as outside, they also start to become monstrous, uncaring, warmongering, and only thinking of themselves.
In the end, a Space Marine, no matter what chapter, is only a brainwashed killing machine that has to suppress all his desires for the goal to protect short-living humans who worship a rotten mummy and have forgotten that the man on the Golden Throne refused to not be seen as a god, but only as a man. Traitorous Space Wolves won't only have beer... They will start raping women, and seeing children cry because of the massacre that was done on their parents.

Don't forget, Space Wolves come from a primitive planet where such things happen all the time. The non-SM-inhabitants of Fenrir are neo-vikings enjoying raping and pillaging galore. After their "death", they get chosen, and brainwashed to become Space Knights fighting Space Orks, Space Elves, Space Insect-Dinosaurs, evil Space Knights, Space Demons, Space Robot-Zombies and Space Hindu in japanese manga-esque battle armour.
And yet, there are lone wolves on earth that don't fit with their pack, and form their own or join another one. For the Space Wolves to do the same isn't incredible. In fact, they joined a new pack. That of Huron Blackheart, Tyrant of Badab and Master of the Red Corsairs, who sails the Maelstrom and promises riches and eternal freedom from the pitiful mortals that serve the High Lords of Terra. The Space Wolves only did what any normal wolf would do. Join somebody who has proven to be stronger by defeating you, just the same as Leman Russ was defeated by the Emperor. They joined the ultimate Alpha Male. And in this case, it was a fellow Space Marine with selfish desires.

then again just because the ones that have disjoined have followed a certain path doesnt mean all do. some may go through a peaceful or at least honorable route. Uriel Ventris anyone?

you are right and wrong. however you seem to have a disdainful view of the wolves. i understand the fact that well you dont like them. the same could be said of all those with "lesser" armies.

Michael M.
31-08-2008, 05:21
To make some things clear.
SW Great Companies who left the Fang cause they donīt like the current Great Wolf doesnīt became renegades. No Wolf Lord swear an oath to the Great Wolf. They always swear on Russ and the Emperor (See the article from Andy Chamber about the Lost Companies in german WD53/May 2000). So theyīre no renegades. They can still ask for support from official sides and they can always return to the Fang (if they wish).

SW are more resistable against chaos then any other SM, but theyīre not immun against it. Itīs possible that some SW defect from their brothers and turned traitor but that happend to every chapter from time to time. Those SW who joined Huron will pay for their betrayal. And donīt think that we will allow Huron to keep the ship. We will recapture it. It may take itīs time but we will get it back.

Clockwork-Knight
31-08-2008, 05:33
then again just because the ones that have disjoined have followed a certain path doesnt mean all do. some may go through a peaceful or at least honorable route. Uriel Ventris anyone?Uriel Ventris was actually banished from the chapter because he joined the Deathwatch temporarily, you know that. It's not by his choice, and he's not a renegade either (although he joined a band of renegades on the Iron Warriors-planet, but that was rather out of necessity, not because he agreed with them, in fact, the surviving renegades have sworn vengeance on him for wasting their lives in doing the work of the Emperor).

you are right and wrong. however you seem to have a disdainful view of the wolves. i understand the fact that well you dont like them. the same could be said of all those with "lesser" armies.No, I'm right, and you know it. I'm not saying that all Space Wolves have become traitors, if that's what you're reading. What I say is why some of the Space Wolves can become traitors, and why not even the Space Wolves are infallible. Just like Michael M. says.

As for the Space Wolves themselves, I actually don't care much about them, nor do I despise them. I always write very verbous, others can confirm this. :p

kikkoman
31-08-2008, 08:17
It seems kinda odd to me that the space viking guys who don't listen to the inquisition that occasionally mutate into horrible werewolf monsters are actually resistant to Chaos.

and WHF's vikings being Chaos's biggest human supporters.

Shibboleth
31-08-2008, 09:15
I don't know why it's this story in the latest Chaos Codex that has got Wolf players panties in a bunch.
The previous Codex had an actual picture of a traitor Space Wolf in a Red Corsair squad years before this.

...and until a Space Wolf sprue comes out with actual bearded heads on it, they can't legitimately be called 'Vikings' in space. At the moment they look more like swedish night clubbers.

Dominus_Serui
31-08-2008, 10:24
Uhh...this is overlooking the fact that there is a forgeworld sprue with beared wolves a very beardy Great Wolf and about twenty years worth of established background defining them as 'Vikings in Space!'

Phoenix Blaze
31-08-2008, 11:11
Has anybody thought that it's also maybe being one of the original Legions that keeps the Wolves from turning to Chaos? In a lot of the short stories, it's little upstart chapters who have units turning to chaos, not the chapters whose history dates back to the Crusade.

But even with that, Space Wolves are supposed to be the toughest marines around, and obviously that's supposed to extend to being resistant against Chaos too. I thinka fair bit of it is ********, and pretty much all the evidence you need to see why a lot of SW players have such a mighty image of their Chapter. Hell, the SW novels don't help either. I've just started Wolf Blade, and it's pretty evident that by the author, SW can do nearly anything, Ragnar especially, so much so that I'm tempted to start my own SW force!

DantesInferno
31-08-2008, 12:29
<Here> (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104810) is the last time we debated the plausibility of the events of the Wolf of Fenris.

Leman Russ
31-08-2008, 13:16
Please keep in Mind that going "traitor" is different to going "to chaos"

Some Space Wolves have gone "traitor" (hey what can I say, defiance is in their blood) but I'll eat my hat if a single one of my boys has ever turned to chaos

Shibboleth
31-08-2008, 16:15
Please keep in Mind that going "traitor" is different to going "to chaos"
... Since when?
It's kind of implied that anyone who turns 'traitor' inevitably falls to the lure of chaos. If they've turned from the Emperor's light they are vulnerable to Chaos whether they intend it or not.

Some Space Wolves have gone "traitor" (hey what can I say, defiance is in their blood) but I'll eat my hat if a single one of my boys has ever turned to chaos As I said above, there is a pic of a chaos Space Wolf in the old Chaos Codex. He is described as a member of the Red Corsairs and has the eight pointed star of Chaos on his shoulder...

Uhh...this is overlooking the fact that there is a forgeworld sprue with beared wolves a very beardy Great Wolf and about twenty years worth of established background defining them as 'Vikings in Space!'I wasn't talking about the background just the models, for standard Wolf Marines. Are you happy with that sprue of freakshow heads claiming to be Vikings? That's what doesn't match the background...
It shouldn't be up to FW to provide an expensive fix (and still those are Terminator only), or players to have to cut up metal figures to convert basic Marines. As it stands we have to turn to WFB for basic bearded heads.

Lord_Crull
31-08-2008, 17:32
Well the Space wolves will be getting a new codex and new models in a year.

But could we get back on subject please?

I think a lot of this comes from the Ragnar novels which as Black Library novels are not exactly canon.

Clockwork-Knight
31-08-2008, 17:47
Uriel Ventris is also shown to be a super-badass the same as Ragnar, and yet, even Ultramarines go bat-*****-crazy and start doing ultranasty stuff. No Space Marine chapter has been immune to chaos. This honour belongs only to the Grey Knights, and that's because their brainwashing and training methods are even more ardent than those of normal Astartes chapter.
Being more resistant to the lures of Chaos doesn't mean to be immune. Every person understands this difference.

Richter Kless
31-08-2008, 17:57
I find this thread to be quite humorous.
SW players are actually trying to deny that the Wolf Of Fenris incident ever happened.

IT'S A TWO PAGE STORY! Seriously people, you can't discuss the plausibility of it. It simply has happened (in the fictional universe).

From now on, you'll just have to accept that the space furries can get corrupted like everyone else.


Some Space Wolves have gone "traitor" (hey what can I say, defiance is in their blood) but I'll eat my hat if a single one of my boys has ever turned to chaos

Well than, enjoy your hat.

olmsted
31-08-2008, 18:20
no one is denying anything. we all accept that the actions of the blood claws on the wolf of fenris were despicable acts. im not entirely sure what the heck the op is trying to get at with this thread. is he trying to say we, space wolf players, dont accept what is canon? or that we just ignore it and say its impossible? lord cull please try to give us some further detail into what you are trying to get across. Also Wolves own all.

Messiah
31-08-2008, 18:22
...and until a Space Wolf sprue comes out with actual bearded heads on it, they can't legitimately be called 'Vikings' in space. At the moment they look more like swedish night clubbers.

Not every viking had a beard, and while the popular depiction of vikings and their beards is of untidy, long beard, this disproves most of it:
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/hairstyl.shtml

Not saying I dont want Space Wolves with shaggy beards, just telling it.

Shibboleth
31-08-2008, 19:18
But to not have any on their own sprue, when that's what they're supposedly known for... :eyebrows:

Lord_Crull
31-08-2008, 20:25
no one is denying anything. we all accept that the actions of the blood claws on the wolf of fenris were despicable acts. im not entirely sure what the heck the op is trying to get at with this thread. is he trying to say we, space wolf players, dont accept what is canon? or that we just ignore it and say its impossible? lord cull please try to give us some further detail into what you are trying to get across. Also Wolves own all.

It's lord Crull, calling me cull reminds me of Kull of Altlantis byt the way.

I have already stated that I am simply wondering why there is such oppsition amoung the community of players about the Wolf of Fenris. After all Richter Kless said it is just a two page story.





,


just face it Space Wolves are better story tellers, drinkers, fighters, & just all round better then most if not all space marine chapters.

That seems to be a pretty self-indulgent thing to say.

][nquist0r
31-08-2008, 22:56
Hmmmm, Space Wolf chaos marines. I should buy up a few and paint them for my TS army. I can call them my Chaos Slaves unit or something...

Phoenix Blaze
31-08-2008, 23:03
With regards to the plastic heads, I've generally seen most of them as being for the Blood Claws, those youths who want to experience the thrill of battle as much as possible, including the sights and smells, hence the lack of beards.

And yes, you can go traitor and not heretic, it's just that the Imperium doesn't really bother to make a distinction. Depending on the view you take, the Chaos legions are traitor first, heretic second. Night Lords and Alpha Legion are far more traitor than heretic. Yes eventually, most if not all traitors will turn to chaos, but for the most part, they only turned to chaos as a weapons to use against the Imperium.


Get me?

olmsted
01-09-2008, 02:07
That seems to be a pretty self-indulgent thing to say.

dont be jealouse you all know its true

Clockwork-Knight
01-09-2008, 06:28
You mean, all those things being self-indulgent being true? Yes, sure, nobody ever questioned that. :D

olmsted
01-09-2008, 15:47
hmm. jealousy rears its ugly head once again

Clockwork-Knight
01-09-2008, 22:08
Why should anybody be jealous at all? It's not that the Space Wolves are better than any other Space Marine chapter. They do the same job, and they fall prey to the lures of the Fell Powers too. Only the Grey Knights have proven to be superior in every capability to all other Astartes order.

olmsted
02-09-2008, 02:06
no one is arguing that. at least not in this thread. space wolves are better then most of the other marine chapters out there in fluff, number of soldiers, bad assness, leaders, drinking, and the fact that our primarch is the only primarch that beat the emperor in two out of 3 challanges.

Leman Russ
02-09-2008, 02:08
In all fairness Vulkan nearly beat him

Drakon
02-09-2008, 04:48
and our Leman Russ is the only primarch to beat the emperor in 2 out of 3 challanges.
....
Didnt know this. Where is this stated??


I know of the story and that's what insipred this after reading about it in other threads. Now I understand that peice of fluff is somewhat disappointing for SW players, but it is canon.
...

Dont GW and black library say that nothing is cannon and everything is cannon :p


yes wolves do go renegade (theres a renegade wolf in the ultramarines book) however it is known that the space wolves are far more helpful to the surrounding imperial citizens then most other chapters and stand against the genocide that the =][= and munitorium multiple times.

Ahh but this was not a "SPACE WOLF" it was a wolf brother different chapter but from the same tree.

SW are the hardest and most loyal or ALL SM's but im pretty sure its stated that a "Wolf lord" has never turned renegade/traitor.

But correct me if im wrong please as we dont want to get put into the same category as those traitorious DA's :evilgrin:

Hellebore
02-09-2008, 05:26
Turning traitor and being a mutant chaos scum are two completely distinct things.

Apparently the Canis Helix protects against the ravages of chaos somehow, but it doesn't stop a space wolf making an ass of himself and becoming a red corsair/reaving pirate etc.

There are 'chaos' marines that aren't mutated or even worshippers of the chaos gods, they simply do their own thing and find it in common with the more hardcore chaos marines.

Looking at the Grand Annulus on the inside back cover of the space wolf codex the stone left for the 13th Co. is also left for those that go back on tbeir oaths and turn traitor to the chapter.

I haven't yet seen a single quote from anywhere that says space wolves are magically immune to turning traitor - being mutated by the warp yes, but turning traitor no.

Hellebore

Koryphaus
02-09-2008, 05:45
Didnt know this. Where is this stated??

Probably the Space Wolf IA or something. I do know that he beat him in an eating and drinking contest, then the Emperor smacked him upside the head with his power fist.


Ahh but this was not a "SPACE WOLF" it was a wolf brother different chapter but from the same tree.

The exact same tree, from the exact same genestock..

Shibboleth
02-09-2008, 13:07
Probably the Space Wolf IA or something. I do know that he beat him in an eating and drinking contest, then the Emperor smacked him upside the head with his power fist...They weren't defeats because they were considered an annoying joke by the Emperor, and they were so indecisive that the Emperor finally had to force it to a proper fight, where he won.

Koryphaus
02-09-2008, 13:56
I just thought I smacked him because Russ was drunk..

Lord_Crull
02-09-2008, 16:34
no one is arguing that. at least not in this thread. space wolves are better then most of the other marine chapters out there in fluff, number of soldiers, bad assness, leaders, drinking, and the fact that our primarch is the only primarch that beat the emperor in two out of 3 challanges.

I don't get it. You just said that no one is arguing that SW are better than other chapters but in the next sentence you state reasons why SW are better than other chapters.. It's rather confusing., what are you saying.

Plus the Bt trump the SW in numbers of marines, every single space marine is argubly bad ass and the Grey Knights trump everyone in that area, only Logan Grimmnar is considered a great leader and he is a chapter master and that's more for his abilty to get along with everyone nd I fail to see how drinking is conisdered inportant on the battlefield when it will impare combat effectiveness.

Drakon
02-09-2008, 21:12
Probably the Space Wolf IA or something. I do know that he beat him in an eating and drinking contest, then the Emperor smacked him upside the head with his power fist.



The exact same tree, from the exact same genestock..

I did say that :rolleyes:

olmsted
02-09-2008, 21:30
I don't get it. You just said that no one is arguing that SW are better than other chapters but in the next sentence you state reasons why SW are better than other chapters.. It's rather confusing., what are you saying.

Plus the Bt trump the SW in numbers of marines, every single space marine is argubly bad ass and the Grey Knights trump everyone in that area, only Logan Grimmnar is considered a great leader and he is a chapter master and that's more for his abilty to get along with everyone nd I fail to see how drinking is conisdered inportant on the battlefield when it will impare combat effectiveness.

i said and if you would read that no one is arguing the story about the wolves of fenris. i said that no one is arguing that wovles do go back on their oathes. i then said why they are so great. as their are un-numbered amounts of wolf lords out there that are willing to fight for the emperor but not logan there are many more companies of wolves then most people think. if you think drinking impares SW combat then dont ever get in a drunken space marines bath.

and when the emperor came to fenris to locate his son he challanged Leman to 3 duels of his choice. Leman choose drinking, eating, and fighting. Leman beat him in drinking and eating and fought the emperor for 3 days before he was hit with a powerfist. he was knocked out for three days.




all in all Space Wolves are the greatest heroes around bar none.

Shibboleth
03-09-2008, 14:01
...and you're not even exaggerating or anything, are you? :rolleyes:

The Emperor wasn't beaten in the first two challenges, he just saw that it was pointless to continue, especially because he was being made fun of. Their actual fight was a short one, just long enough for the Emperor to gauge Russ's skills before putting him down, a blow which Russ shook off in an hour, not three days at a time.

Wolflord Havoc
03-09-2008, 16:11
The Codex itself implies that entire Great Companies have in the past forsaken their oaths of fealty to the Chapter and gone off on their own (for reason good bad and downright evil). I recall reading somewhere that Several Great Companies after fighting in the Eastern Fringe vs nids decided that they would stay in the area rather than make the long Journey back to Fenris and got involved in 'forlon battles' etc.

Also there is the Red Corsairs 'fan boy story' in Codex : CSM in which a Space Wolf Strike Cruiser is captured by some Red Corsairs after the Space Wolves on board forgot how to defend it. They were defeated because I quote (badly) "Huron Blackheart knew the tenents of the Tacticas on how Space Marines would defend a Ship" Hmmmmmm yesssss - I think Space Wolves might have used that particular Tactica as Emergency Loo Roll a couple of years After the HH!!!

Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the Ship Being Captured or Space Wolves Turning Traitor due to the malign influence of the warp thingy that Huron Has or <enter reason here> etc. But too say that they were 'easily defeated' because they were following the 'Imperial Space Marines : How to defend your Strike Cruser Manual' step by step which Huron used against them (Cue evil laughter) is um laughable.

Now if they had said that Huron used the last of his Veteran Terminators and Assault Marines and fought bloody and costly ship boarding action in which several Space Wolves turned on their comrades helping tip the balance of power in the Red Corsairs favour - this along with Hurons Knowledge of the Strike Crusers probable weaknesses (these are not identicle Model T Fords after all) and experiance allowed the Ship to be captured largely intact.

Not Blah blah blah most of the crew was killed by the leathal shrapnal of the exploding torpedos (WTF?) Blah Blah Blah The Blood Claws were gunned down trying to charge entrenched Chaos Marines - Blah Blah Blah etc etc Yawn!

Rabid Bunny 666
03-09-2008, 19:14
Also there is the Red Corsairs 'fan boy story' in Codex : CSM in which a Space Wolf Strike Cruiser is captured by some Red Corsairs after the Space Wolves on board forgot how to defend it. They were defeated because I quote (badly) "Huron Blackheart knew the tenents of the Tacticas on how Space Marines would defend a Ship" Hmmmmmm yesssss - I think Space Wolves might have used that particular Tactica as Emergency Loo Roll a couple of years After the HH!!!

Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the Ship Being Captured or Space Wolves Turning Traitor due to the malign influence of the warp thingy that Huron Has or <enter reason here> etc. But too say that they were 'easily defeated' because they were following the 'Imperial Space Marines : How to defend your Strike Cruser Manual' step by step which Huron used against them (Cue evil laughter) is um laughable.

Now if they had said that Huron used the last of his Veteran Terminators and Assault Marines and fought bloody and costly ship boarding action in which several Space Wolves turned on their comrades helping tip the balance of power in the Red Corsairs favour - this along with Hurons Knowledge of the Strike Crusers probable weaknesses (these are not identicle Model T Fords after all) and experiance allowed the Ship to be captured largely intact.

Not Blah blah blah most of the crew was killed by the leathal shrapnal of the exploding torpedos (WTF?) Blah Blah Blah The Blood Claws were gunned down trying to charge entrenched Chaos Marines - Blah Blah Blah etc etc Yawn!

Erm, in my Codex; CSM, Huron used his knowledge on how Marines defend ships, y'know, being a marine himself and all, and i doubt space wolves defence tactics vary too much from the codex as corridor fighting is slightly limited in tactics. Also, losing 50 marines in a Boarding torpedo and the close-ranged bloody fighting that cost Huron alot more marines doesn't count as bloody? The ship wasn't ecovered almost intact, only intact enough so that Huron could repair it. Also, those Torpedoes were boarding torpedoes, not regular ones.

Also, its not a "Fan Boy" story, if it was, it wouldn't be in a codex. Hell, if you don't like negative background about your army you're lucky you're not a Guard player :D

Richter Kless
03-09-2008, 20:58
The Codex itself implies that entire Great Companies have in the past forsaken their oaths of fealty to the Chapter and gone off on their own (for reason good bad and downright evil). I recall reading somewhere that Several Great Companies after fighting in the Eastern Fringe vs nids decided that they would stay in the area rather than make the long Journey back to Fenris and got involved in 'forlon battles' etc.

Also there is the Red Corsairs 'fan boy story' in Codex : CSM in which a Space Wolf Strike Cruiser is captured by some Red Corsairs after the Space Wolves on board forgot how to defend it. They were defeated because I quote (badly) "Huron Blackheart knew the tenents of the Tacticas on how Space Marines would defend a Ship" Hmmmmmm yesssss - I think Space Wolves might have used that particular Tactica as Emergency Loo Roll a couple of years After the HH!!!

Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the Ship Being Captured or Space Wolves Turning Traitor due to the malign influence of the warp thingy that Huron Has or <enter reason here> etc. But too say that they were 'easily defeated' because they were following the 'Imperial Space Marines : How to defend your Strike Cruser Manual' step by step which Huron used against them (Cue evil laughter) is um laughable.

Now if they had said that Huron used the last of his Veteran Terminators and Assault Marines and fought bloody and costly ship boarding action in which several Space Wolves turned on their comrades helping tip the balance of power in the Red Corsairs favour - this along with Hurons Knowledge of the Strike Crusers probable weaknesses (these are not identicle Model T Fords after all) and experiance allowed the Ship to be captured largely intact.

Not Blah blah blah most of the crew was killed by the leathal shrapnal of the exploding torpedos (WTF?) Blah Blah Blah The Blood Claws were gunned down trying to charge entrenched Chaos Marines - Blah Blah Blah etc etc Yawn!

This, people, is why GW can't write about Space Marines losing. The fanboys would simply be boggled by the fact that the Astartes actually lose a battle or two.
We have Guardsmen regiments getting smashed into the dirt all the time, but God forbid if your Space Marine defeat didn't at least include a heroic last stand and the mention that the Marines sold their lives most dearly.

olmsted
04-09-2008, 04:08
im almost possible that goto wrote that crap.


possible theories... the traitor wolves were actually alpha legion.

..... thats about all i got. no evidence to support it or deny it.

Richter Kless
04-09-2008, 10:33
im almost possible that goto wrote that crap.


possible theories... the traitor wolves were actually alpha legion.

..... thats about all i got. no evidence to support it or deny it.

Goto's name is not in the back of the book.
't was all written by Thorpe and Cavatore.

Clockwork-Knight
05-09-2008, 15:13
Alpha Legionnaires being on board of the Wolf of Fenris only makes the Space Wolves look dumber, for not having figured out that such traitors could infiltrate their mighty Strike Cruiser, wear the exactly same armour, and be on board with them together for so long.

Nah, better to accept it that the Sons of Leman Russ can turn traitor too, then letting them become retarded perceptionwise (all Space Marines have excellent perception, so it's not possible at all anyway, so scrap that idea).