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Vostroyan
31-08-2008, 05:51
I hate going to gamesworkshop and finding so many people play space marines there is absoulty no variety. Last week at seattle I went to play kill teams there were around 16 people but I didn't care i still got 2nd but anyways everyone there without a lie was playing marines and I was the only one using steel legion ig. It really stunk because there was absolutly no vareity everything was the same every game. Also why does everyone keep their marines blank with no prime i personally am getting to prime them because I just started my steel legion army.

onermedboxer
31-08-2008, 05:57
hahah its like the new england patriots(bandwagon football team for anyone not from america) people love them because they are good and cool and all those fancy words. i can proudly say i dont play SM, everyone can conform as they like.

Vostroyan
31-08-2008, 05:58
Finally someone who dosen't lol

onermedboxer
31-08-2008, 05:59
they are few and far between

Malevon
31-08-2008, 05:59
Out of at least a dozen armies in my group, not one is vanilla Space Marines, so I've never experienced this, but I'd guess it's because they have a lot of plastics (so they're cheap), are relatively easy to paint, and are the flagship army.

olmsted
31-08-2008, 06:02
do space wolves or 13th company count as marines?

Vostroyan
31-08-2008, 06:03
I hope you don't have to experience it it gets so annoying and yes they do count

Malevon
31-08-2008, 06:05
Oh, well we've got Grey Knights, Deathwatch, a Blood Angels successor Chapter, Relictors, and three Chaos Legions, but nothing using just the Marine Codex.

CHOOBER SNIPES
31-08-2008, 06:06
i dont really understand it either. I think theyre cool, but not cool enough for them to be so dominant. At my LGS, its just the "new" army (its orks now) and SM. Not really much else. I play chaos, but thats because of two reasons (good ones too :D):
A) I love chaos and i love the customization for champs and to make daemon princes and all that chaosy goodness. (whys half of it gone now sadface)
B) I play HE in fantasy and i need a change (ie something big, burly, and covered in armor and spikes, as well as being very elite)

Malevon
31-08-2008, 06:25
How are Orks new?

Vostroyan
31-08-2008, 06:29
the new codex

SPYDER68
31-08-2008, 06:31
There are many reasons why people play marines..

#1 Reason: They Look Awsome
#2 Tough army 3+ saves T4 around
#3 Nice rules and fluff
#4 Easiest army to recover from a strategic Mistake
#5 Can do great at Close Combat, Shooting, Infiltrating, Speed, Mechanized, Drop Pods(who else can drop in safe with no chance of blowing up except off the table ?)

Also i myself refuse to have a Marine army.

ORKY ARD BOYZ
31-08-2008, 06:32
Well space marines are endorsed by GW. They're pretty much the poster boys of 40K and have a large range of detailed models as well as being awesome and all that.

Sidstyler
31-08-2008, 06:32
The only thing I don't understand is why someone has to make this thread every week? On every 40k forum?

"lolz guyz why does people play teh space marinez"

Because GW shoves them down our throats, if there's a 40k or GW logo on it there's a Space Marine on it somewhere. Because they have the most kits, and nearly all of them in plastic now. Because they're easy to paint and look good on top of that. Because they have the best learning curve, easy to recover from a mistake. Because you know for a fact they will continue to be top priority at GW and get the best rules and the most support, you will never have to worry about "Squats treatment" when you're a Marine player, or sit around for 10 years waiting for a codex or even one new kit. Because they have the best background, they're toted as "the good guys" fighting the good fight to save humanity, even though your average Marine would shoot a human for getting in his way and couldn't care less about protecting mankind.

It's a very, VERY easy question to answer. If frogs could talk you could go outside, pick one up, and it'd tell you the same thing, right before pissing in your hand and hopping away. There's really no need whatsoever to make these kinds of threads, all you need to do is open your eyes and look.

You could also just ASK people why they play Marines at your store.

Drogmir
31-08-2008, 06:34
* playing the world's smallest violin *

My heart bleeds for you :rolleyes:

Atog
31-08-2008, 06:36
Is that special warseer forum style, to complaining about things you can not interference?
Will dozens of SM put away theirs smurfs and fighting tomatoes, and begins play something like SoB or catachans after OP's speech? NO!
So what the point of complaining?

Heimlich
31-08-2008, 06:42
I hate going to gamesworkshop and finding so many people play space marines there is absoulty no variety. Last week at seattle I went to play kill teams there were around 16 people but I didn't care i still got 2nd but anyways everyone there without a lie was playing marines and I was the only one using steel legion ig. It really stunk because there was absolutly no vareity everything was the same every game. Also why does everyone keep their marines blank with no prime i personally am getting to prime them because I just started my steel legion army.


hahah its like the new england patriots(bandwagon football team for anyone not from america) people love them because they are good and cool and all those fancy words. i can proudly say i dont play SM, everyone can conform as they like.

Despite what you say, space marines have so much background and variety, that people get tied up with the fluff and the "cool factor" and lust to collect and paint that chapter. Personally, I collect salamanders. I like the fact that they have a gene-seed defect which makes their eyes a fiery red, and their skin an obsidian black. I also have always enjoyed flame weapons in any game, setting things on fire is enjoyable. The fact that salamanders use a variety of those weapons, along with thunderhammers is exactly what I want in an army. I don't consider myself a "conformist", and call me what you want, I could care less. I will continue to collect and paint my diverse battle company of the (decimated by their brothers which turned to chaos) Salamander's first founding legion. That is also why they don't have any recorded second founding chapters, but hey, my Primarch is still alive :D
I also spend just as much money as you, if not more, so what how can you both really say these things?

Vostroyan
31-08-2008, 06:48
will steal legion has awsoem fluff and i can get them out of many strategic mistakes easily and they look cool but they take a bit of converting here and there also i using steel legion sqauds to represent guardsmen

Heimlich
31-08-2008, 06:58
will steal legion has awsoem fluff and i can get them out of many strategic mistakes easily and they look cool but they take a bit of converting here and there also i using steel legion sqauds to represent guardsmen

My good friend plays steel legion, I agree that they are an army with a good background, along with amazing looking miniatures. They are also quite a fun army to play against, and I imagine also to play.

Vostroyan
31-08-2008, 07:01
they are quite fun to play

Damocles8
31-08-2008, 07:12
Lets see here....I started SM's over 3 years ago....because they were like Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie).....then I picked up Guard and sold off my marines....my guard went through a drop troop phase, a light infantry phase, and ended up mechanized.....then I got even more guard (one "Shield company" worth, plus lots o tanks and grenadiers), then I got back into Marines this past holiday season....for one simple reason.....Horus Heresy....I read the series and have based my marines off of Loken (his gene-seed survives....) and have been painting and minorly converting my SM's since.....I'm the only constant vanilla player at my venue....we have 2 or 3 sporadic ones that show up every now and then.....Now I've got DH and WH to add a little "kick" in games.....

Ambu
31-08-2008, 09:55
Wow Op asked a loaded question.

Well besides being cheap, cost effective money wise, being in every starter set GW ever put out. yada, yada...

But everyone has posted that.

Before I quit years ago the (me included) were a dime a dozen. So I branched out and played DA. That lasted for a few monthes before everyone jumped on the bandwagon, so I switched to orcs, a few more monthes and a good bit were playing that as well....

Fast forward to current day. I play CSM (do they count :p )

Odd thing is, I only know of 2 people who play them in our area now. One guy has been playing them since 2nd ed (Smurfs, and he plays them very well), and the other guy bought them because all my group was playin 40k again (wants to do whatever we do) , but I don't expect he will EVER actually play.

Most in my area play Nids and Tau with IG and Orcs tied in a close 3rd. Dang it I wanna play crons or Eldar once. Hell I will even take a DE player at this point.

Atog
31-08-2008, 10:17
In our metagame less than 50% plays marines =) Of course there is lots of us, becouse marnes's high cool factor, but "everyone" not propper word.

As for me, when i start play (i guess 1999) I knew about eldar, marines,chaos and orks, and i choose marines, becaus of Chaos Gate. That game rrocks =)

Freefire
31-08-2008, 10:58
I always kinda figured that if you have at least three armies ONE of them would be Marines. For me it is the variety available. There's a lot of unit choices in there. Plus after playing my main Guard army, its nice to play something that can shoot and take a few hits instead of die in droves. But I also have a tendency to roll poorly consistently so an army with a little extra leeway is a breath of fresh air. It does help keep my interest in the game cause getting chopped up all the time can put a damper on your enthusiasm after a while. That said, my armies are Guard and then Eldar, usually playing one of my friends' Marine army if I play them at all.

The_Warsmith
31-08-2008, 11:04
becaus of Chaos Gate. That game rrocks =)

QFT

it's what got me into 40k and my first army, chaos (played fantasy before that but not 40k)

i've never played marines, chaos and necrons are my only armies

fisheyedbunny
31-08-2008, 11:16
i play Ultramarines, Space wolfs and Chaos SM's...I also play Guard and Daemonhunters too. I play SM's becasue its the ones I started with and at the moment I like to paint them. Plenty of choices in the list and alot of redundancy in thier. 3+ Save, good in CC, good at Shooting. For me who is not the best player ever they are a very forgiving army to play. I love the 40 Universe and fluff so I tend build my lists on what I think would be fighting rather than tailoring my lists to each opponent (thus my fabulous loss record :P).

I did a game against Nids where I had an entire company on the table, 6 Tactical, 2 Assault, 2 Dev and command. Got wiped out to a man but it was a good game and interesting to see how a Company actually did against a swarm.

Guard started as an extention of the SMurfs and I just never stoped collecting. I plan to eventualy collect Necrons and if they ever bring Squats back then i'll sell everything I have to buy them :)

Eryx_UK
31-08-2008, 11:56
1. Because they look great.
2. Ease of play.
3. Ease of painting for the most part.
4. They are the icon for the 40K universe (and hey, why not!).
5. Other armies can and do require some thought to design and play, so its easier to go with the simple option.

rossco13.com
31-08-2008, 12:34
i play marines and still have the amry but i find thm boring cause you can just walk out into fire and barely any would die and i just dont find them that tactical

Slaaneshi Slave
31-08-2008, 12:37
People play Marines because not everybody is cool enough to play Imperial Guard.

ashc
31-08-2008, 12:42
Whenever I look at building a new army it seems to always end up being some kind of marine army (chaos or loyalist). I always feel so dirty and ashamed afterwards though.... :(

Ash

Grimtuff
31-08-2008, 12:46
Finally someone who dosen't lol

Please do not use "lol" as a punctuation point. In fact, use punctuation full stop. :rolleyes:

Yes there are lot of SM armies as they are the most forgiving army in just about every aspect of the hobby. Tactics, painting etc. they are all easier than most.

chromedog
31-08-2008, 12:54
I play eldar, Daemon Hunting Grey knights, Imperial Guard (footsloggers with walker support) oh, and SM.

Why SM?

I've been playing with SM since RT. This is longer than most of my club have been alive for. I've never played UM or BA or DA or SW or BT or any other SM chapter with their own codex. Up until 3rd ed, they were crimson fists. They were THE posterboys of RT, not UM (although the blue-boys were " ... like ... Ultra " ). I play SM by right of this. I've been playing for ages, and no-one who has come onto the scene in the last few years can gainsay me otherwise.

When the traits came out, and CF cost more to field, and limited my choices from my model collection, I went vanilla - no traits at all. Gave them a custom colour scheme (and background reflecting my other hobby) and continued from there. Unlike other players in my area, they weren't just vanilla until the next codex came out. I've never even used a min-max squad. 5 man squads, yes, but they only had bolters.

Earthbeard
31-08-2008, 13:02
Maybe because they like them? Shocking I know

elvinltl
31-08-2008, 13:14
I play Eldar and they are cool. In fact my gaming team only has 1 SM Player. The rest are Necrons, Tau, Tyranids and Orks.

One main reason why SM is the dominant army is because if you noticed, 60% of all the 40k books are centered about SpaceMarines. Horus Heresy is one fine example. The remaining 30% is about Imperial Guards. Only 10% of the 40k books are about other races. And people are usually inspired by stories before starting on armies. Tada! SM Domination. >.<

Take for example Eldar... As far as i know, the only book dedicated to Eldar is the Prophecy Book. And unfortunately, it is so "Beautifully", "Awesomely" and "Accurately" written by C.S Gotto... Hell. Opps!
I think there is an ancient book called Farseer about Eldar and i was told it was well written. Can't seem to find the book though.

And yea, SM are the poster boys for GW. If they release a poster collection of 40k, they will probably release a collection of the different SpaceMarines Chapters instead of releasing 1 poster per race.

Another move GW did which horrified me was the fact they remove Eldar craftworlds rules. Obviously, they can't be bothered with a "secondary" race. I agree craftworld rules are a little overpowered but removing them completely is pretty irresponsible. I would appreciate if they could try to balance the rules out and make Eldar Fan Boys like me happy. ^^

blackroyal
31-08-2008, 13:26
To get everyone else to complain about it.

The_Outsider
31-08-2008, 13:27
Put it this way, SM make up of nearly half of GW's sales (not just 40k, all sales) so if people are playing them there is a damn good reason for it.

Lordsaradain
31-08-2008, 13:28
Space marines are lame. Chaos is an exception though... :P

leo_neil316
31-08-2008, 13:34
Because we want to.

The_Outsider
31-08-2008, 14:16
I'll play space mairnes if it funds the next DE codex.

Takitron
31-08-2008, 14:22
I play marines because I like marines. They look cool, they have cool fluff, they have big guns, and they survive. Why I play my army is of no concern to you, if you dont like MEQ, then dont play against MEQ. if you cant FIND anyone who doesnt play MEQ, then tool up your list to own them and maybe, just maybe, you'll change someone's mind.

Threads like this is why this place is referred to as Failseer.

Lord Raneus
31-08-2008, 14:29
My FLGS only has one real Marines player currently (me.) We have OVER 9,000 Chaos players, Orks, Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Tyranids, but only one Marines. Marines also have something like 1/2 of the current Codexes, so if 1 out of 2 people plays some form of Marines in your group, well, that's about on par with an even spread. Plus, at least with last edition Marine/CSM codex, Chapter Traits/Legion traits allowed you to have very interesting mirror matches, as you can have radically different armies, whereas a Tau or Necron mirror match is going to be far more boring as both armies will most likely have a similar composition or playstyle; not so much for Ultramarines vs White Scars, or infiltrating Blood Ravens against Deathwing. Furthermore, I'll bet most people who play Marines do it because of the reason most other people play their armies; Marines look cool, the fluff is cool, the models are cool
So please, OP, don't whine about our preferred army, and I won't whine about whatever army you like.

Overt_Spy
31-08-2008, 14:35
Because Space Marines are freaking badass. Simple as that.

Venerable_Bede
31-08-2008, 14:37
Space Marines are cool looking, the good guys, the stars of 40k. Why is it suprising that many many people like to play them? (Disclaimer, while I started with Black Templars, I now play IG and Orks).

RCgothic
31-08-2008, 14:48
Space marines got me into 40k. They were easy to paint, looked awesome, low in model count and I loved the fluff. I love all the imperial fluff. Even now as I'm branching out I'm still firmly an imperial man, though I'll probably dabble with the Xenos scum at some point. The only reason I don't have another complete army is that I get distracted easily.

I've been making a mixed gender cadian IG regiment. (10 personell or 1 chimera short of min strength, currently no heavy or special weapons.)
I got a baneblade and taught myself to airbrush it.
I got a warhound titan, my first major resin kit, and spent ages with that.
Apocalypse got me excited enough to expand to a full battle company of marines.
Apocalypse Reload has got me expanding my terminator collection for a first company.
I bought forgeworld's new Reaver Titan.
I read the entire Horus heresy series, the entire Commissar Cain series, 15 hours, Deus Ecarmine and Deus Sanguinius.
I looked seriously into starting Tyranids (despite having an unfinished guard army).

I have such a big to buy and to do and to paint list it's frankly ridiculous. I want an additional 2 baneblades. All of the macharius tanks look awesome. I want an entire squadron of thunderbolts, another of lightnings, and an air-cav vulture/valkyrie set for my IG. I have the new space marine drop pods to equip for my entire battle company. If a plastic thunderhawk comes out, well that's just awesome too. I have another 50 or so terminators to paint for my first company. 3 Hellhounds would be nice as well. And 3 more Lemans to go with my demolisher. Earthshaker artillary? Awesome.

All this in a finals year at uni. The only thing holding me up is time. GW is going to make an absolute mint out of me. So I don't really appreciate it when people go: "Oh, another vanilla marines army." I do what I love. You don't have to play against me, and I don't have to play against you. I might still be holding a grudge when my IG/future armies come to fruition as well.

zeep
31-08-2008, 15:36
Another aspect is that people tend not to like to face armies that are "diffrent".

Play tau, all you here is complaints about gunline and jsj.
Play necrons, its Wbb and monoliths.
Play nids, its Synapse and monstrous creatures.
Play orks and its waagh cheese.
Play eldar and your skimmmer happy or stocking up on wraith's.
Play Ig and its pie plates

The only special rules that dont get complained about, seem to be space marine rules, in point of fact.

Slaaneshi Slave
31-08-2008, 15:46
No complaints about JSJ now, since it is taken a big hit with true LOS.
WBB is on the way out with the next Codex.
Nobody complains about IG. :rolleyes:

Grand Master Raziel
31-08-2008, 15:48
It's actually not true that everyone plays Space Marines. However, you'd never know that from the online forums, because everyone thinks they know everything there is to know about playing Space Marines. As it happens, to a greater or lesser extent, everybody's wrong about that. Even me.

Lord Raneus
31-08-2008, 16:09
Another aspect is that people tend not to like to face armies that are "diffrent".

Play tau, all you here is complaints about gunline and jsj.
Play necrons, its Wbb and monoliths.
Play nids, its Synapse and monstrous creatures.
Play orks and its waagh cheese.
Play eldar and your skimmmer happy or stocking up on wraith's.
Play Ig and its pie plates

The only special rules that dont get complained about, seem to be space marine rules, in point of fact.

I'm fairly sure people complain about ATSKNF and the (soon to arrive) legion of character-specific special rules quite frequently. And things like Fear of the Darkness also seem to be loathed (in fact, this is getting pulled while Eldar get to keep their falcons, and Chaos keeps their own OP psychic power.)

Furthermore, I thought Marines generally didn't win tournaments, wouldn't this be an indicator that it's much harder to build a cheesy, OP list out of the Marines codex than say Eldar?

And also, I don't think I've ever heard someone accuse IG of being overpowered. I also don't see how you figure pie plates and gunlines to be special rules...

sydbridges
31-08-2008, 16:11
Let's see: For non-marines, there's WH, Eldar, DE, Daemons, Tyranids, Orks, Crons, Tau, and Guard. So, 9 codices.
For marines, there's DH, Vanilla, DA, BA, BT, SW, and Chaos. So, 7 codices.

So, assuming each player walks into the GW too drunk to read and just plays the first codex they touch, they have a 7/16 chance of it being a marine codex. Not quite 50%, but not incredibly far from it.

Now, factor in that players don't go in drunk, and are motivated to choose codices by any combination of the following factors:

Availability of fluff
Just read awesome novel X about army
Size of model range
Newness of codex
Cost to get an army built
Look of army
Conversion potential
Inspiring article in WD

Out of those, the marines have an advantage in Availability of fluff (the four IA books, for instance), BL novels, newness of codex much of the time (since about half of the codices are about marines, at any given point you're generally not more than a year or two away from the last marine codex release), they're pretty cheap to build since you can build an all plastic army, and they have a fair bit of conversion potential, and I bet if I were to go through my WD collection, I'd find that there were more White Dwarf issues with at least one article about marines than there were with at least one article for any other single army.

So, yeah, they're going to be common in a lot of areas. If it bothers you, don't play marines and try to get in more games with others who also don't play marines.

Adra
31-08-2008, 16:23
I like space marines they are a pretty cool army. Its hard to not treat them as different from other armies just because they are so much a part of the GW machine but if u can look at them equal to other armies they suddenly seem alot cooler :)

They aint as cool as chaos mind you :P

zeep
31-08-2008, 16:24
I'm fairly sure people complain about ATSKNF and the (soon to arrive) legion of character-specific special rules quite frequently. And things like Fear of the Darkness also seem to be loathed (in fact, this is getting pulled while Eldar get to keep their falcons, and Chaos keeps their own OP psychic power.)

Furthermore, I thought Marines generally didn't win tournaments, wouldn't this be an indicator that it's much harder to build a cheesy, OP list out of the Marines codex than say Eldar?

And also, I don't think I've ever heard someone accuse IG of being overpowered. I also don't see how you figure pie plates and gunlines to be special rules...

The question is however, do marines not do well at tournies because the are not powerful? Or is it that since there are more marine armies at a tourney, most people configure armies to face MEQ? For that matter, many people cannot tell you the special units / rules in another army, yet most people are so familiar with marines that there are really no surprises. Hell, there are still debates at most tourneys I've been to on monoliths and WBB.

Simple exercise, look over your tourney army. Do you think at all about Ap3? What were your thoughts when thinking of units and options?

No army does well when a (competent) opponent configures specifically to beat it.

Grimtuff
31-08-2008, 16:26
My FLGS only has one real Marines player currently (me.) We have OVER 9,000 Chaos players, Orks, Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Tyranids, but only one Marines.

:eyebrows:
I've told you a billion times never to exaggerate.

See what I did there? ;)

TzeentchForPresident
31-08-2008, 16:33
I think it could have been a bit different if the WH40K "starting armies" those who came with the rulebook in previous editions etc. didnīt always included Space Marine as one of the armies.

The situation is a whole lot different in WHFB, you usually see Empire and Orcs in starting kits but they are not nearly as dominating as Space Marines in WH40K. With the exception of the forgotten Chaos Dwarfs, the armies get a fairly even share of updates and attention in WHFB.

Shinguuji
31-08-2008, 17:14
Yeah! I agree with you marine haters totally! Marines are so boring and uninspiring. I mean, genetically modified humans in futuristic armour, with advanced weaponry 40,000 years in the future? puhhlease! its so boring! I got no idea why people want to play them, its just so silly! People should play more original races 40,000 years in the future that suits the setting better, like elves, or orcs, or world war II soldiers, or even better, space demons that possess no advanced ranged weaponry, now that's suitable for a sci-fi game!

The 2nd worst army is probably tyranids. A faceless alien that doesn't look human, nor behave human at all? BORING! All aliens should be humanoids with subtle differences, like pointy ears, or blue skin, or longer than normal hair.

Clearly GW is making a huge mistake making marines their flagship race! I'm going to boycott playing marines, even if they're all painted! I'd rather play against a rules lawyer with an unpainted 3 falcon army, than some lame army like deathwing?

Oh also, all marine players are clearly cheats! Their codex is so powerful, and they win all the time. I'm happy to observe that some of the people playing other races, especially the most vocal anti-marine players out there boast a stunning win-loss record over marines. If it were up to me, I'd nerf marines even more, clearly they're overpowered. I suggest downgrading their save to a 6+, and making all their stats 3, and increasing their points to 30 per marine. Also, if you can't beat marines easily, you don't deserve to play 40k.

heretics bane
31-08-2008, 17:19
People play Marines because not everybody is cool enough to play Imperial Guard.

You sir have just become my new hero for saying that:D

I started of playing marines but only used them during the practice matches.Then i saw the guardys and went "well cooler" and started them.

rizzo77
31-08-2008, 17:53
I play space marines but this is mainly because most of my friends play chaos!

RFM275
31-08-2008, 18:05
They cool
The most plastic kits
Relatively easy to paint (depending on the chapter)
Big Guns
Big Tanks
Lots of armor
Easy to learn with
Cool background

I could go on forever. I have 5 different space marine armies Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Red Scorpions. Each one has its own theme and way that I use them. I also play Chaos Marines, Eldar, Tau, Necrons and Tyranids. All of these are great options as well. But to somebody just getting into the hobby and not knowing anything space marines have that "it" quality.

MrGiggles
31-08-2008, 18:12
While marines are a common army, they're certainly not a bad one. They're definitely one attractive to play though.

First and foremost, they're a good all around army. They hit hard, they're tough, they're one of the best shooting choices in the game and they're armour is top notch. Realistically, even if you do make a mistake, Marines generally die slowly enough that you've a chance to recover.

There has been a ton of promotion of Marines over the years, to the point that they're somewhat iconic to 40K. My first picture of the game certainly involved a Space Marine.

Finally, there is a ton of variation to the various Marine forces, especially when you factor in all of the various chapters on the Imperial side, the Chaos Legions, the Grey Knights. While you're definitely going to see a ton of Marine armies in 40K, the armies can be quite varied.

Kailey
31-08-2008, 18:19
Im new to warhammer in general. I play a made up chapter of SM but use the SM codex with no traits. I looked at each and every model in every army including fantasy. I chose SM based off of the looks of the models. Examples, I liked the tanks, but the other tank armies I did not like the models and so on..SM is all around goodness.

Lame Duck
31-08-2008, 23:32
I started with SM, they were cool.

Moved on to IG, very nice.

Dabbled in Daemonhunters, oooh.

Back to SM, lovely.

Next, probably IG again.

And why not?


Please do not use "lol" as a punctuation point. In fact, use punctuation full stop. :rolleyes:

Yes there are lot of SM armies as they are the most forgiving army in just about every aspect of the hobby. Tactics, painting etc. they are all easier than most.

Actually, the poster before him had written 'hahaha' instead of using 'lol'. He was referring to that. Anyway...

Straha
01-09-2008, 00:23
Because Marines are included in the starter set. And with Marines you get some cool variations (Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels with a Deathwing and Ravenwing option).

Also, a lot of players have Space Marines and a second or third army. I currently have a Necron army and am building an Imperial Guard and Ork army. I also have the models for a Tau, Eldar, and "nid army --- now all I need is the time.

Exarch Nektel
01-09-2008, 00:44
Too many marine players is kind of annoying.

I think that most people play Space Marines because many players start young and that is what appeals to them at that age. Also, because so many players already play Space Marines, some might peer pressure others into playing Marines too.

I think that all non-basic Codex marines such as Blood Angels or Black Tamplars are pretty cool and use more strategy than plain old Marines.

Havock
01-09-2008, 00:47
I have them, unorthodox chapter.... quite so ;)

marv335
01-09-2008, 00:47
Marines are a classic "Man for all seasons" army.
They can do just about anything.
Granted they don't really excel at anything in the way more focused armies (like eldar or IG) do, but they are competent at any role.
Want to do a biker army? easy.
Fully infiltrating assault force? no problem
Infantry gunline? I'm there!
Armoured company? Panzer Marsch!

They are very adaptable, easy to collect, almost entirely in plastic, have fantastic background.

The real question is why wouldn't you have a Marine army?

Gatsby
01-09-2008, 00:58
Gotta say i hate marines they're overpowered, over simplified, designed to induct beginners into the game, have more models than most other armies combined, get whatever they want (for the most part) because of GW's favoritism of them and to be honest they smell, they never wash their armor as they never remove it, I myself have no Marine armies... unless you count my Dark Angels and Iron Hands...

MajorWesJanson
01-09-2008, 01:18
Dark Angels? Bah. Marines that whine.

Arond me, the querstion is why does everyone play Eldar? I know 6 eldar players, 3 marine players, and a templar player at the local store I play at. We need more orks and guard.

Deus Mechanicus
01-09-2008, 01:53
Marines are safe to play.
They wont get squatted, alien huntered, witch huntered, daemonhuntered, lost and the damned...ed.

Slaaneshi Slave
01-09-2008, 05:55
Witch Huntered? We still have a fairly powerful Codex which kicks the crap out of most Marine armies.

Iron Father
01-09-2008, 05:59
Originally it was the look of the dreads and terminator models that drew me to the marines, but since the release of the Ork dex earlier this year, I have been drawn to that army more and more due to the shear variety in the list, plus it gives me a reason to yell WAAAAAGH! and everyone understands

40kdhs
01-09-2008, 06:13
Here are reasons:

1-They have the best and latest of everything.
2-They are a forgiving army to play.

Sidstyler
01-09-2008, 06:30
Gotta say i hate marines they're overpowered, over simplified, designed to induct beginners into the game, have more models than most other armies combined, get whatever they want (for the most part) because of GW's favoritism of them and to be honest they smell, they never wash their armor as they never remove it, I myself have no Marine armies... unless you count my Dark Angels and Iron Hands...

Judging by how the 40k universe is usually described, I'd imagine there are several billion people in the galaxy who probably smell.

olmsted
01-09-2008, 06:46
at least i played guard first and then went to 13th company. so completly different that they shouldnt be counted as space marines.

Occulto
01-09-2008, 07:20
Maybe because they like them? Shocking I know

Strange but true. :D

SM are cheap to buy, easy to paint, easy to convert, have an extensive range of background and relatively simple ruleswise.

It's a no-brainer why they're the most popular. :rolleyes:

antin3
01-09-2008, 08:39
It is a bit annoying at times seeing so many marine armies but what everyone else has said is true. They are very well represented as far as fluff and artwork go so there is a great deal of inspirational material available. They are easy to paint, and they are cheap to start. I think that is a big reason also. I just returned to 40k after a long lay-off and started Orks, a buddy started with me and went with marines. Lets see he bought one battleforce and I bought 3 Ork battleforces and I still don't have half the points he does. Oh well I love the Orks but I can see why many choose marines.

Seved
01-09-2008, 20:25
The Space Wolves have been my chapter of choice since I begun collecting, painting, and gaming in 2003, because I have marines and vikings put together in one army.

Redleg
01-09-2008, 21:12
As much as people may hate me...I"m going to be a new Space Marine player. I'm debating getting into the game (I played a long time ago in 1995) after extensive Heroclix and Star Wars Miniatures time. Playing Dawn of War convinced me to try it out.

And 60 bux for a Black Reach box is a minimal commitment of money to try a new hobby. If I end up playing Orks instead...that's fine....but I like the idea of playing Humanity's Saviors. Maybe GW can release more Assault on Black Reach type starter sets with other races. More flavor to go around.

So if you see my Green Lantern Corps Chapter of Space Marines...know that it's because of the small financial commitment.

Lamont Cranston
01-09-2008, 22:56
I am starting Space Marines, not because of thier rules or anything, just because I think they look the coolest. Also thier fluff is really fleshed out, and because they are the main 40k money making machine they get lots of great models.

Coragus
01-09-2008, 23:01
Not everyone plays Space Marines, but since they've been included in every boxed edition of the game, and since they have had so many different army books for the different chapters, several people have playable armies of them, and several of those people never get off them.

Even the people I know who don't play SMs still have a bunch of them at home and drag them out once in a while.

Abaddonshand
01-09-2008, 23:12
I play nids as my main army, but started off with necron (still use em, got 1500ptsish) (discounting a foray into 2nd edition with nids when I was much younger). However, I am getting into Dark Angels and currently building an army (well, 2 armies actually) for them. I am creating a 1500pts Battle company list with no DW/RW and a 1500pt DW/RW list.

A few reasons why I got into DA;
1. ALways liked their fluff
2. Deathwing
3. Company Veterans are some of the best models in the game, if not the very best, followed closely by Terminators, carnifexes & nid warriors.
4. [Newly acquired] Standard battle company with no DW/RW Dark Angels will now be at a considerable disadvantage compared to the new Space Marines being released next month, and thus the army becomes much more challenging than the standard vanillas (same applies to BA/ BT /SW (until the SW update in early 09)

5. [General Space Marine reason] It should be noted that while beginners playing marines fair better against beginners playing other armies, when it comes to veterans playing veterans, marines are pretty much on par with other armies, making for interesting and tactical games. Playing my nids, some of my best games have been against well-schooled marine players.

SirSnipes
01-09-2008, 23:27
forget marines, they may be dominant but htey are SO easy to beat itsnot funny

Preston
01-09-2008, 23:31
Codices
1 Space Marines
2 Chaos Space Marines
3 Dark Angels
4 Space Wolves
5 Blood Angels (sorta)
6 Black Templar
7 Imperial Guard
8 Witch Hunters
9 Daemon Hunters
10 Daemons
11 Necrons
12 Dark Eldar
13 Eldar
14 Tyranids
15 Tau Empire
16 Orks

Total # of Codices - 16.
Total # of SM Codices - 6, 7 if you count Daemon Hunters.

Assuming 6, that's 3/8ths of all armies being Space Marines of some kind as far as supported books.

Ianos
01-09-2008, 23:49
That's 8 with the MEQ bolter wielding imperial witch hunters (then of course we have necs which are not exactly marines in name but are similar in stat line, and people wonder why the 4th Ed. metagame was so monotonous...).

Plus the real reason (IMHO) most people start with and play marines is that they yield the most in-game efficiency with the minimum brain energy input. The iconic/fluff thing is in my eyes a poor excuse since:

a) All armies can be iconic or introduced as such and would draw many more fans (like what happens in WH fantasy where most armies have an equal share of the fanbase and not 70% of people play with the white Knights of this or the other order)
b) If it wasn't for their effectiveness we wouldn't see them being loved, see demonhunters who are THE iconic marines and yet have no real fan base
c) If GW decided to emphasize Eldar, their worlds and a million Eldar chapters, if Eldar won games with little thought and had all the kits, story and stores personnel in their favor, guess which the iconic army would be...

P.S. I already foresee a counter-fun-post which will say marines would still be the one

grickherder
02-09-2008, 01:35
I can't remember who the poster was, but back in the early days of the Warhammer 40k mailing list (when it was the only alternative to the terrible **** hole that was RGMW) this very discussion arose and someone gave a most excellent answer.

The central background story of the Warhammer 40,000 universe is that of the Emperor, the Primarchs, Horus and their children, the Space Marines. In short, Space Marines have always been at the centre of the story of the 40,000 universe. They are iconic and it only makes sense that a majority of the players of the game would want armies that represent the central force of the 40k story.

Coragus
02-09-2008, 01:39
That's 8 with the MEQ bolter wielding imperial witch hunters

Or 9 if you include the daemon-neutered Chaos Space Marines.

Zilgorn_Zeypher
02-09-2008, 01:45
I have a marine army and Imperial guard also nids... like every one else says SM are the easierst ones to start and now I use my marines sometimes but usually I use them to teach others the game

Preston
02-09-2008, 01:45
Or 9 if you include the daemon-neutered Chaos Space Marines.

I did, see my original list.

Look at #2 on that list.

:D


Codices
1 Space Marines
2 Chaos Space Marines
3 Dark Angels
4 Space Wolves
5 Blood Angels (sorta)
6 Black Templar
7 Imperial Guard
8 Witch Hunters
9 Daemon Hunters
10 Daemons
11 Necrons
12 Dark Eldar
13 Eldar
14 Tyranids
15 Tau Empire
16 Orks

Total # of Codices - 16.
Total # of SM Codices - 6, 7 if you count Daemon Hunters.

Assuming 6, that's 3/8ths of all armies being Space Marines of some kind as far as supported books.

victorpofa
02-09-2008, 02:59
I have not seen this glut of marine players at my club.

When they can be lured away from WoW and Magic my club consist of an Eldar player, an Eldar/Sisters player, a Chaos Nurgle player (he has not played since well before the codex change), a Tyranids player, a Dark Eldar/Blood Angels player, a Tau player, and a Dark Angels/Orks player. For a while my Space Wolves were the only marines being played.

Overt_Spy
02-09-2008, 03:22
I think the Space Marine's character just feeds into many male's most adrenaline-pumping, testosterone charged, fantasies. Honestly, I reckon every single guy who plays Warhammer 40,000 has at one pointed fantasied about how much it would kick ass if he, himself, was a space marine. I can't comment on the female warhammer players, because frankly women have a mindset I couldn't figure out if I had GPS and a road-map.

Speaking as a 19 year old who's overflowing with testosterone and male hormones, I can say the Space Marines appeal to me because I can't think of anything more badass than a 7 foot tall, ripped, armour encased madman who shoots rockets from a machine gun-rocket launcher.

Sure, other races do have a badass factor, but frankly, I don't feel "pumped" up when I read Eldar fluff. The eldar basically prance around and very quickly and delicately eviscerate their opponents. Badass? Yes. But how does it compare to a 7 foot behemoth, crashing into his opponent, picking him up with a massively over-sized hand, slicing him in half with a chainsaw-sword, then throwing his bloody carcass into a vat of nitroglycerin, causing a massive explosion, which hurls shrapnel at this dude, only it bounces off his incredibly awesome armor.

I'm sure when I get older and less energetic, I'll think SM's are just for whipper-snappers, but right now, SM's rank up there with Power metal on the badness scale. They're a 12.0 on a 10.0 scale.

- Human
02-09-2008, 03:23
I'll play space mairnes if it funds the next DE codex.

Dark Eldar models and rulebook certainly won't fund the update, and keep in mind that SM sales probably funded the models and codex you CURRENTLY have.

Shinguuji
02-09-2008, 03:36
That's 8 with the MEQ bolter wielding imperial witch hunters (then of course we have necs which are not exactly marines in name but are similar in stat line, and people wonder why the 4th Ed. metagame was so monotonous...).

Plus the real reason (IMHO) most people start with and play marines is that they yield the most in-game efficiency with the minimum brain energy input. The iconic/fluff thing is in my eyes a poor excuse since:

a) All armies can be iconic or introduced as such and would draw many more fans (like what happens in WH fantasy where most armies have an equal share of the fanbase and not 70% of people play with the white Knights of this or the other order)
b) If it wasn't for their effectiveness we wouldn't see them being loved, see demonhunters who are THE iconic marines and yet have no real fan base
c) If GW decided to emphasize Eldar, their worlds and a million Eldar chapters, if Eldar won games with little thought and had all the kits, story and stores personnel in their favor, guess which the iconic army would be...

P.S. I already foresee a counter-fun-post which will say marines would still be the one

Because elves in space is a very hard concept to follow, and is a very very bad idea, they belong more in fantasy than 40,000 years in the future. If you read most futuristic books, they always have space-marine like guys, whether its mobile armour, or they even still call it plain marines.

Shinguuji
02-09-2008, 03:43
forget marines, they may be dominant but htey are SO easy to beat itsnot funny

That's why they need to upgrade marines more. We should all band together to send an email to GW asking for basic marines to be BS/WS6, T6, S6, W3, Ld10, with a 2+ invunerable save, monstrous creature and fleet. Bolters should be S6, assault4 rending, and they should reduce the point cost of a marine to 10. That'll probably make them more balanced and fair, and harder to defeat, even then, I'm sure many people will report devastating victories over them.

protip: look at my signature, the last line.

Grubnar
02-09-2008, 06:29
They were in the starter set.
Oh, and Space Wolfs = Vikings in space = Awesomeness!
:angel:

Unamed Consript
02-09-2008, 07:07
honestly whats not to like about them?
They are the protectors of the imperium. And no doubt, the saviors of mankind.
They are tough and strong as a pissed off rampaging rhinocerous.
They know no fear. And will stand up to anything, undaunted and ready to stand up to whatever is about to befall upon them.
They are the physical manifestation of humanities hope.
And last, (but the best by far) they can crush the skull of an average human with their fist!!!

you cant honestly say that wou've never wanted to do that to someone? Yeah ok.

SwordJon
02-09-2008, 07:25
Honestly, I'm starting a Space Marine army so that the regulars around here can actually fight against them. (Space Sharks! Woo!)

We have a crapton of Tyranids and Chaos in various forms, Eldar, and a few Orks, but that's just about it for variety. Fortunately we're doing a paint and play soon so this should be changing up significantly.

Juggernaut246
02-09-2008, 07:34
In my FLGS we only have two regular space marine players, the next most popular army is tau, after that its witchhunters/demonhunters (i know i was suprised to) and Imperial Guard, we have a little of everything else save for Dark Eldar and Orks (though we just had someone with a ork army play last week)

I myself play Chaos Space Marines and a guard army that i have put into retirement for the time being...

CthulhuDalek
02-09-2008, 08:32
Interestingly, when I started 40k(almost 8 years aho??) I had never even heard of space marines until after I had bought a full Eldar Megaforce. I had not even gone to a gamesworkshop store until a few years later. The first game I played with my newly acquired Eldar(who I thought were THE most badass) was vs. Imp Guard. At the end of the battle I was introduced to The Genestealer Cult(The imp guard player also had cultists which he had at home), and when I walked in the back room I saw nids.

In other words I was introduced to these other races pretty quickly. I don't recall the first time I bought marines, but my first marine army was a 500 pt chaos army, because I thought my few nid models would kitbash very well with these "awesome armored soldiers!"

It also seemed odd to me. The Imperial Guard sounds like a more fitting name for the Marines and vice versa!

Sloeberjong
02-09-2008, 08:55
I think the Space Marine's character just feeds into many male's most adrenaline-pumping, testosterone charged, fantasies. Honestly, I reckon every single guy who plays Warhammer 40,000 has at one pointed fantasied about how much it would kick ass if he, himself, was a space marine. I can't comment on the female warhammer players, because frankly women have a mindset I couldn't figure out if I had GPS and a road-map.

Speaking as a 19 year old who's overflowing with testosterone and male hormones, I can say the Space Marines appeal to me because I can't think of anything more badass than a 7 foot tall, ripped, armour encased madman who shoots rockets from a machine gun-rocket launcher.

Sure, other races do have a badass factor, but frankly, I don't feel "pumped" up when I read Eldar fluff. The eldar basically prance around and very quickly and delicately eviscerate their opponents. Badass? Yes. But how does it compare to a 7 foot behemoth, crashing into his opponent, picking him up with a massively over-sized hand, slicing him in half with a chainsaw-sword, then throwing his bloody carcass into a vat of nitroglycerin, causing a massive explosion, which hurls shrapnel at this dude, only it bounces off his incredibly awesome armor.

I'm sure when I get older and less energetic, I'll think SM's are just for whipper-snappers, but right now, SM's rank up there with Power metal on the badness scale. They're a 12.0 on a 10.0 scale.

Hit the nail right there.

Did you guys read the Horus Heresy books....or Brothers of the Snake....or the Space Wolf series? Those guys are total awesomeness! And it never grows old. I don't even like 40k as much as a game (I prefer fantasy), but I absolutely love the fluff. The battle of humanity agains all comers.

I hate the fact that the rules for SM don't reflect the fluff, but I guess it's acceptable for "balance" (read: sales).

Most people at my FLGS play varied armies, but most ALSO have a SM army for simple fluff reasons. We all think these guys are total badasses and we all read the books.

I also think that marines are popular because they are popular, not because GW shoves them down our throats. They started shoving because most people wanted them shoved down! It's a sort of snowball effect I guess...

Zeigfryd
02-09-2008, 09:05
the paint set started with space marines, it wasn't my fault! ='(

whitewolfmxc
02-09-2008, 09:42
I started recently playing as space wolves , i like them cause i like the idea of wulfen XD

also does anyone know where can i get a complete roaster for the space wolves 13th company list ?

Brother Gabriel
02-09-2008, 10:01
Proud to play Space Marines!
BTW, i am the only one who plays them in my gamin club. So nobody even complains. And since i can field Vanilla, DA, BA and Ravenwing i even have a lot of variety for my opponents.

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 11:40
I think the Space Marine's character just feeds into many male's most adrenaline-pumping, testosterone charged, fantasies. Honestly, I reckon every single guy who plays Warhammer 40,000 has at one pointed fantasied about how much it would kick ass if he, himself, was a space marine. I can't comment on the female warhammer players, because frankly women have a mindset I couldn't figure out if I had GPS and a road-map.

Speaking as a 19 year old who's overflowing with testosterone and male hormones, I can say the Space Marines appeal to me because I can't think of anything more badass than a 7 foot tall, ripped, armour encased madman who shoots rockets from a machine gun-rocket launcher.

Sure, other races do have a badass factor, but frankly, I don't feel "pumped" up when I read Eldar fluff. The eldar basically prance around and very quickly and delicately eviscerate their opponents. Badass? Yes. But how does it compare to a 7 foot behemoth, crashing into his opponent, picking him up with a massively over-sized hand, slicing him in half with a chainsaw-sword, then throwing his bloody carcass into a vat of nitroglycerin, causing a massive explosion, which hurls shrapnel at this dude, only it bounces off his incredibly awesome armor.

I'm sure when I get older and less energetic, I'll think SM's are just for whipper-snappers, but right now, SM's rank up there with Power metal on the badness scale. They're a 12.0 on a 10.0 scale.

Am I the only one who thinks this post is a good reason NOT to play Marines? Normal humans (SoB and Guardsmen) kicking ass and getting their asses kicked in a world with super human soldiers, genetically engineered insects, immortal robots and the uncounted green tide is much more fun. Marines are cool, I suppose, but they should be the guys who drop in and save the protaganists, only to bugger off again. The Protaganist should be nearly as scared of the Marines as they are of the gribblies. Marines are too common. If they were rare they would be so much cooler. Just like Necrons were cool when we knew nothing about them, but as soon as they shoe horned them into the fluff they became boring.

pringles978
02-09-2008, 13:01
Simple. Most people play marines because GW has put time and effort into marketing marines in order to get new players into the hobby. Generally speaking, most kiddies are easily drawn in by the fluff of the space marine and GW has responded to this by making the armies both easier and cheaper to collect and increasing the prevalence of marine imagery in their literature. its a flagship product, and many newcomers collect marines first due to low model count, majority plastic (cheaper) troops and the fact they are easy to learn to paint with and fundamentally simple to use in a game.

Other than that, they are a great army to collect and play with. i play chaos and xenohunters now, but have had several marine armies in the past and would collect again if i ever finish painting what ive got...

Hun
02-09-2008, 13:11
Space Marines have the best of everything. The army is almost entirely plastic; which means they're both cheap and easy to convert appealing to the casual and dedicated gamer. The top 5 or so chapters have a greater depth of background than most races in 40K; great for all those who enjoy reading up on the background of their army. Finally, the army is very flexible on the tabletop so that it appeals to almost all playstyles.

I had 8 players in my gaming group and 7, including me played marines of one form or another. It was only frustration at the lack of variety we had in our battles that led me to try other armies but nothing has that cool, rugged sci-fi look like space marines.

isidril93
02-09-2008, 13:43
fluff wise they have everything.
the good guys (the ultramarines)
the ones who would attack on a hunch (black templars)
the one who cant forgive themselves (dark angels)
the ones who go all frenzied (blood angels)

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 14:43
Salamanders are the good guys, Ultramarines are the neutral guys.

(Another reason not to be a Marine player is so I don't get confused with the guy I quoted before)

Overt_Spy
02-09-2008, 16:18
Am I the only one who thinks this post is a good reason NOT to play Marines?

Looks like it.



Normal humans (SoB and Guardsmen) kicking ass and getting their asses kicked in a world with super human soldiers, genetically engineered insects, immortal robots and the uncounted green tide is much more fun.

Just FYI: You have bad habit of stating your opinion as fact. Also, Sisters of Battle are hardly 'normal' humans


Marines are cool, I suppose, but they should be the guys who drop in and save the protaganists, only to bugger off again. The Protaganist should be nearly as scared of the Marines as they are of the gribblies. Marines are too common. If they were rare they would be so much cooler. Just like Necrons were cool when we knew nothing about them, but as soon as they shoe horned them into the fluff they became boring.

From a lot of the fluff I've read, most humans hold the SM's with a sense of awe, with an equal sense of sheer terror.

As for the marines being played too much, well, how about if game was more "realistic." Now make 99/100 games Guard vs Rebel humans on backwater planet aplha b 5. That sounds way cooler than Space Marines vs Daemons, which accounts for what percent of all the conflicts in the galaxy? Like 0.000002%?

Why don't we allow Tyranid players to take 5X as many points as their opponent? That would fit their fluff more accurately, wouldn't it?

Dr_Jimboedius
02-09-2008, 16:35
i have played Eldar for two and a half years, i have recently started Space Wolves (so recently i've only painted one guy), i did this because i personally like the fluff and models for Space Wolves. Maybe, just maybe, all the Ultramarine players like the Ultramarines fluff? I reckon most people play Marines because they appeal to human nature, a race of beings designed to protect us, yet also made from us.

Dr J

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 16:37
SoB are standard humans in a suit of armour. They are female Storm Troopers effectively.

I may have badly represented my opinion when I said they were too common. I meant their fluff is too common. There is too much fluff written on them.

Of course my opinion is fact, I am Slaaneshi Slave, aka Llothlian, Dark Deity, first Lord of Gludio. :D

colinsherlow
02-09-2008, 16:47
The Store at Vancouver Metrotown has some variety in it. There are alot of Nid and Necron players. IG and Orks have slowley been getting more popular as well around here. You do have to understand that Space Marines are the staple army for GW, and there will always be more space marine players than anything. I personally hacew never played marines, and I probably never will (well maybe Space Puppies). I'm an Ork player through and through. I have been since 2nd ed

Brother Gabriel
02-09-2008, 16:51
SoB are standard humans in a suit of armour. They are female Storm Troopers effectively.

Which kind of makes them very "unstandard"



I may have badly represented my opinion when I said they were too common. I meant their fluff is too common. There is too much fluff written on them.

WOW if we follow what you propose, we would be in for a round of very boring books...



Of course my opinion is fact, I am Slaaneshi Slave, aka Llothlian, Dark Deity, first Lord of Gludio. :D
That is not even funny..

Slaaneshi Slave
02-09-2008, 16:55
Which kind of makes them very "unstandard"

Take them out of their armour they are no better than your average Guard veteran. That makes them standard humans.



WOW if we follow what you propose, we would be in for a round of very boring books...

Boring because they have no Marines in? Guants Ghosts and the Eisenhorn books are all brilliant, and yet Marines are only extras.


That is not even funny..

Just trying to be as over dramatic as he was. :P

Shinguuji
02-09-2008, 17:18
Marines are cool, I suppose, but they should be the guys who drop in and save the protaganists, only to bugger off again. The Protaganist should be nearly as scared of the Marines as they are of the gribblies. Marines are too common. If they were rare they would be so much cooler. Just like Necrons were cool when we knew nothing about them, but as soon as they shoe horned them into the fluff they became boring.

I agree with you on this point. Many good literature is written from the standpoint of the common man, rather than the authority, or the ones in power. I would like to see more books written from the guardsman's viewpoint...a normal guardsman, the one that dies in one shot, and not the ones who can take down dreadnoughts, like in gaunt's ghosts. The guardsmen in gaunt's ghosts seem like imperial guard with marine abilities, they're rarely ever really afraid, and can survive and kill almost anything

However, 40k is a game, in which you immerse yourself in, and as such, most people would rather be the super-powered human rather than the common John Doe.

I happen to believe that some races, owing to background and design concept are born to be boring or unsuitable for a futuristic backdrop.

lanrak
02-09-2008, 20:13
Hi all.
Why is it that WH races are more evenly-equaly suported?
I dont think therer is a no-brainer choice for first army in WH, is there?

GW have simply pimped SM as it is the only recognisably 'GW IP' ihn GWs grim dark future setting.
Others prouduce human space grunts,space orcs and space elfs and space dwarves and space undead, and manga stylee etc.

But GW SMs are the flag ship centere of all marketing, THE toy soldiers they sell to kiddies above all else.

And as GW activley market and support SM above everything else now.It has adversely affected the game play and meta game of 40k.

Good job no one cares about the gameplay , only the kewl minatures and stories...:rolleyes:

zanotam
03-09-2008, 00:28
I'm of the opinion that people play SM because they're cool. It doesn't really make sense as we're dealing with kids in the 9-15 age group which would seem to imply a love for CSM since of course, being the bad guy is SOOOOO cool, but just like in the city of franchise, the more people who do something, the more people will be likely to do it.

Norsehawk
03-09-2008, 00:44
Look at it this way:
You have Codex Marines, this covers in no small part:
UltraMarines
Salamanders
White Scars
Raven Guard
Imperial Fists
Crimson Fists
And any of the paint schemes that people might like that aren't covered by a specific Codex.

Then you have
Dark Angels Codex, which leads to Ravenwing, Deathwing, and Doublewing
Blood Angels, which leads to Flesh Tearers and other sub chapters that people like
Black Templars
Space Wolves

On a side note:
Daemonhunters for the Grey Knights

Then there is:
Chaos Space Marines (marines with spikes and special rules)

Then you have the marine equivalents:
Sisters of Battle
Necrons

Then you get to the non marine or MEQ armies:
Imperial Guard
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Nids
Orks
Tau
Chaos Daemons
(and anyone I missed, not thinking fully right now)

Marines are also the 'face' of warhammer 40k, every starter kit has come with marines. Until the Guard got a lot of love by Abnett and Mitchell most of the books were about marines in one way or another. The majority of artwork features Marines too.

Is it really any doubt that when it comes down to it, when the majority of available army lists are marines in one way or another, the majority of fluff favors marines, and every person who starts the game by buying one of the boxes, has a marine army?

sydbridges
03-09-2008, 02:40
Good job no one cares about the gameplay , only the kewl minatures and stories...:rolleyes:

Honestly, that's more GW's fault than the players. You can hardly blame players for falling in love with the army that has some of the best looking minis and gets the majority of BL books written about them, nor can you blame players for picking one of the two armies that comes in the starter box set, especially since one of those two armies is in every starter box set.

If Empire had as much support from GW as the Space Marines, where 80% of the WH novels were about the Empire, and every box set contained Empire models, and the Empire was always the most up-to-date and had many of the best sculpts out of all the WH armies, and virtually every White Dwarf magazine had at least one page about the fluff of the Empire, modeling or painting Empire soldiers, or a battle report in which the Empire showed up, and if the Empire represented nearly half the codices for Fantasy, I suspect that you'd find Empire much more common in Fantasy than they currently are.

You can be annoyed with other players for picking Space Marines, I suppose, but it's hard to blame someone for being attracted to their fluff and minis on account of "but everyone likes the army with the huge amount of fluff and great minis that are mostly available in plastic and the codex which is always up-to-date." That's GW's fault for not spreading the love around to the rest of 40k's armies.

As I said before, if we were to assume a completely and totally random distribution of players for each codex, since nearly half the codices are Space Marines or at least contain them (DH), we would see about half the players playing SMs. The fact that Marines get a lot of love from GW in the fluff and sculpts department and are the most pushed only skews things further in their favor.

Brother Gabriel
03-09-2008, 06:23
Take them out of their armour they are no better than your average Guard veteran. That makes them standard humans.

Dont they have better ballistic skill? And for sure all those faith points do make them different... no they are not normal.



Boring because they have no Marines in? Guants Ghosts and the Eisenhorn books are all brilliant, and yet Marines are only extras.

Thats a matter of taste then, i really dont think, that reading a WWI novel in space is that good of a book. All that artillery grinding and trench warfare etc. nah im not a big fan of that. Im more for a group of heroes, battling some ancient evil or whatever ^^.



Just trying to be as over dramatic as he was. :P

Mission accomplished ;)



Good job no one cares about the gameplay , only the kewl minatures and stories...


And what is wrong in caring about the fluff and the minis?

olmsted
03-09-2008, 06:57
im throughly in the belief that a player who does space wolves and 13th company shouldnt count as a space marine player.

13th company (my main army) is such a far cry from smurfs and other vanilla marines thats its almost not even funny. also winning a game with 13th company and still keeping a majority of your VERY few models in the game is a tremoundous experience.

so... i dont think i count as a space marine player..

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 06:59
Dont they have better ballistic skill? And for sure all those faith points do make them different... no they are not normal.

They have the same BS as Storm Troopers and Hardened Veterans. If you knew [i]anything[/] about the background of the army you'd know they are just devout girls in armour. No special engineering, just faith, training and good equipment.



Then you have the marine equivalents:
Sisters of Battle
Necrons

SoB are not MEQ

Brother Gabriel
03-09-2008, 09:31
They have the same BS as Storm Troopers and Hardened Veterans. If you knew [i]anything[/] about the background of the army you'd know they are just devout girls in armour. No special engineering, just faith, training and good equipment.


So fanatic Girls in Armour with special training and equipment is normal in your book? And that faith even makes it possible to do wonders and stuff...

Yeah propably if i knew anything, i wouldnt consider this special.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-09-2008, 09:57
They don't perform wonders in the fluff, Faith is just a game mechanic. :rolleyes:

Special training just makes them... Normal humans with special training. They are not biologically engineered, they are not clones, they are not psycho indoctrinated, they are not psychers, they have no augmentations (mechanical or otherwise). They are orphans who get given a bolter and a suit of advanced armour. Nothing about them physically is any different than any other female human in the galaxy.

Sidstyler
03-09-2008, 10:31
From a lot of the Fluff I've read, most humans hold the SM's with a sense of awe, with an equal sense of sheer terror.


Not all of them. In the fluff Salamanders are pretty well-respected by the Imperial Guard and I'd care to wager they aren't "feared" as much, because they're not as unpredictable as other chapters and take their duties more seriously. They actually seemingly give a damn about the lowly human and often take jobs that other Marines ignore, like rearguard, evacuation, etc. They also live among their own people.

They're still fanatical and rabid xeno-haters etc. etc., but Salamanders are the closest thing to the good guys you can get in 40k.

Brucopeloso
03-09-2008, 11:03
Ok, time to come out: I have a marine army...... shock! Horror!
After collecting Eldar, nids, chaos (undecided plus all mono armies), necrons and daemon hunters I started looking around for a new army to collect and tried marines and guess what, they are quite fun. I come up with some fluff and a nice color scheme plus some restrictions for my army and my little chapter ended up looking and performing pretty well.

I don't think marines are annoying per se (apart from the fact that they get a new codex far too often and have almost everything in plastic while some other forces have to wait years to get anything), I think the problem is just marines spam.

Marines spam is going to be a problem for a while when the new codex gets released but the problem has a very simple solution: play another non marine army and kick the crap out of all those marine "me too" armies. The good players will come out with good armies and the bad players will just get fed up with being pounded in the dirt and will start playing something else.

Until the new codex induced marine fever abates I will just play with my non marine armies and take my time to build, convert and paint my new ork army, dakka dakka!

EmMeTt
03-09-2008, 13:44
I don't see a massive problem with it. People like marines.

I collect marines, after doing 4 imperial guard armies, orks and demons.

If you hate playing against marines so much, then don't play. Simple.

Ianos
03-09-2008, 16:20
I don't see a massive problem with it. People like marines.

Except that many of them like Marines because they have been bombarded by their imagery, fluff, promotion and very strong rules.


I collect marines, after doing 4 imperial guard armies, orks and demons.

You are the man!


If you hate playing against marines so much, then don't play. Simple.

Well that's not so easy mate. You see, when i go into a gaming club or store and 70% plays MEQ it will be hard for me to say, "hey look, i don't play marines so buzz off!". It will be even harder when i go to a tournament or when one of my friends collects them and wants to play.

And really my problem with their proliferation is not the fact that it is happening with marines. I would be displeased if ANY army got so much as to unbalance the game and the metagame so dramatically. Guess what most of us would like here is a game where each race had a share of the pie with a few discrepancies. That would make for a fluffier, more fan representative game, with many personalized armies and huge tactical depth in both tournaments and friendly play.

Gatsby
03-09-2008, 17:16
So fanatic Girls in Armour with special training and equipment is normal in your book? And that faith even makes it possible to do wonders and stuff...

Yeah propably if i knew anything, i wouldnt consider this special.

but none the less, my girls ain't MEQ

Chapter Master Leonidas
03-09-2008, 17:42
It makes sense that they're popular, they are iconic to the game and the background. They're solid for play, fairly forgiving but can really pack a punch if applied properly.

They're easy to paint, base coat, some highlighting and a few details and you're done. I can paint SM about 3-4 times faster than my orks and I consider my orks fairly easy to paint.

They look great when done up properly too, an army that's all one solid color can really be eye-catching.

I sort of look at them like D&D is for roleplayers - almost everyone has played it, probably got their start playing it, and occasionally goes back to playing it.

MrBigMr
03-09-2008, 17:57
Does it count that my Marine army is Chaos and by fluff not even Marine?

I guess it does, since I use the SM codex. Then sorry, can't help it. Why such f'ed up choice? Well, it's a long story. I've never found Chaos to be that good of an idea (this due to being brainwashed by GW's grimdark Chaos), just your average evil berserker warband crap. But then I got into playing BFG and after getting shafted by some Eldar, I decided to do a Chaos fleet to get some firepower to take down the damn pointy ears. Even made a little fluff about how the admiral from my previous game (using borrowed Imperial ships) fell to Chaos and returned to make the Eldar pay.

The table was set. I started thinking about doing a 40K version of the fleet (later the Eldar player also decided to start a 40K army based on his fleet). Though there was the LatD, I wanted to have a more "elite" force (sort of fleet shock troops, rather than few gazillion guardsmen), so I went with ye olde CSM codex, model 3.5. I even started to write some fluff to explain some of the options, such as why there was a Tau in there, etc. By the time I started gathering stuff to make the army, GW renewed the codex and all the fluff to table plans fell to pieces. Things like sonic terminators, mutated hull predators as Leman Russ annihilators, etc.

So instead of hanging myself, I opted to use the SM codex, as it actually gave me a fluffier force. I got drop pods, storm bolters are as close to sonic blaster my terminators are gonna get and the Eldar as my preferred enemy. Had to rethink some of the options too. XV8 Chaos lieutenant (via gifts) was replaced by a mere Shadowsun suit (fluff-tech prototype explanation suit) Assault Marine sergeant. Also continued the fluff for two more novels (well, the third is still in the works), giving me more things to the force from the new codex, such as an obliterator techmarine and an ex-Sister sorcerer librarian.

Now I'm a little ticked that GW once again is coming out with a new codex, but I'll just have to suck it up. With any bit of luck, I'll just add to my army rather than subtract from it.

...
I think that ended up a little too long. And probably horribly off-topic. Oh well, just shoot me if you got a problem with it.

And what happened to the man who didn't like Chaos? He has a daemonic legion and Chaos dwarf army in WHFB on top of the 40K one. So I guess he has seen the light if liberty behind the service of the dark gods over the small minded "loyalists." But I still have the army I started with and still have as my main army, my IG.

Ubermensch Commander
03-09-2008, 18:03
At the OP, People play Space Marines because they like them. Pretty Simple. One could ask why you like playing normal humans amongst a game with super powered beings and monsters from beyond the void.
While some posters may feel playing a WWII equivalent soldier with a flashlight rifle is amazing and the height of epic, some people like playing with super powered fanatics in a SCI FI game. Or a player may like playing with Vikings/Mongols/Vampires in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCEEEE! All of which fall under the purview of Space Marines.
All armies have their draw points. All can be epic in the mind of the player.
While frustration with having to play similar opponents again and again(MEQs) is understandable, the original post of this thread is not. Oh god, they play an army they like. *shrug* Oh well.
Question for OP WHAT exactly do you not like about Marine armies? Simply having to play so many of them?

Yautja
03-09-2008, 18:15
Because after I buy the Fall of Black Reach my Orks will be finished and I will have 10 Marines 5 Terms a dread and a commander. So I will make that Blood Angels army I always wanted to.

alex03
04-09-2008, 07:52
This is why *I* started with marines as my main army:

Low model count, less to paint
Simple paint scheme, easier and quicker to paint. As you can see, painting en mass was never my thing.
Cheaper and easier to collect, and sorry to say I do love everything in plastic. When I started it was all metal, I don’t miss the metal mini's at all. Well, putting them together that is.
I enjoyed books such as Starship Troopers and Armor.

Also, nothing is quite as enjoyable as beating an eldar player and then hearing about how cheesy *YOUR* marine army is (for being marines, of course). I really find if funny it it always seems its the eldar fanboi's that hate marines the most. See, my close friend is a total eldar fan boy, so I play eldar ALL THE TIME. How everyone feels about marines is how I feel about eldar, except I have more justification since the eldar ARE overpowered, and I've been dealing with *THEIR* overpowed b.s. since 2nd edition.

I hope the new marine codex is just stuffed full of underpointed cheese. I’m going to use it without regret. Then when my opponents say how overpowered marines are Ill say: Yes, and if feels goooooooood. ;)


That said I really want to do a carapace armoured guard army, or a great coat guard army. We shall see. I am also going to do an ork army when I get my two boxes of the new starter.

Shinguuji
04-09-2008, 08:51
I really find if funny it it always seems its the eldar fanboi's that hate marines the most.

You're not alone. Most eldar players are ok. The more vocal ones have the elvish mentality in which they must always be number 1, and they complain because they're rarely, if ever, number 1. I wish they'll quit 40k and go play LOTR or something.

I wouldn't have as much to say if it was tyranid players whining, but a fantasy race Tolkien created should be anything but the flagship race in 40k. playing eldar makes you just another eldar player as you are just another marine player - there are far too many of them.

Interestingly, people just seem to say 'marines are cheap' and have very little else to prove their point beyond that, while eldar has the infamous 3 falcon list, clown spam, chaos has lash prince, oblierator list, nids have nidzilla, etc. Its surprising that there are so many marine players despite the attraction of such WAAC-ish races, and that says a lot about the coolness of the marine concept.

While I support marine players, I do wish there are more tyranid or guard players out there. Hopefully the new guard codex will make a gigantic impact, somehow... I'm doing my part by building up a tyranid army.

Also, I wouldn't really mind if marines moved towards a more dark-eldarish direction, a hard but rewarding to play army, that'll weed out all the WAACers. I don't really have an opinion on the new SM codex, since I play BA. I don't get such a sweet deal on tacticals like the marines, but I can see some potential handicaps, like no special weapons on 5 man squads. I'm sure the point cost for the specialists would be high.

mooze
04-09-2008, 13:31
Because the Emperor commands it!

Ianos
05-09-2008, 00:15
Also, I wouldn't really mind if marines moved towards a more dark-eldarish direction, a hard but rewarding to play army, that'll weed out all the WAACers.



Exactly, elite armies should be for connoisseur gamers, people should most likely start with hordes and they should be the most forgiving ones. Then progressively SM,CSM,Eldar and DE should be chosen as skill advances. But as it is right now we have 2 Elite armies (SM,CSM) that are mainstream and that IMHO is what keeps the game down to MEQhammer.

Of course the horde direction is on the way as we finally see powerful Orks, Nids do ok and Guard will soon get a codex. I 'd love to see the day where hardcore marine players are pointed out from the mass and not lost in a newbie WAACer crowd.

Brother_Marius
05-09-2008, 01:42
I play them because I've played them since i got into 40k in the Rogue Trader years. Back when a Grey Knight Terminator squad was 1000pts and all chapters were pretty much exactly the same. Plasma guns didnt blow up in your hand, conversion beamers made your enemies cry and the missile launcher had a 72" range....

I also play Ultramarines... started with Blood angels but at that time I liked blue better eheheh... that and the contrast between the Ultramarines' chapter symbol and their background color looked better to me. Of course this is back when there was almost no fluff or novels.

Any other old heads skip 3rd like I did? I played RT, 1.5, 2nd, skipped 3rd and then got back into it for 4th. I like 5th so far, but at this point I have lead debt that is older than most of the people I play (I still have two squads I didnt finish back from 2nd ed). Getting into Fantasy slowed me down... cursed Dwarfs

avatarofportent
05-09-2008, 05:35
cause the learning curve is easy, and there a forgiving army. i heard all space marine products make up to 25% of GW"s whole profit

MrBigMr
05-09-2008, 06:28
It's a double edged sword. SM sells, so GW supports them, and they sell even more. Not to forget all the fluff. Who wants to be a weedy little space elf clay pigeon who are useless when you can be a mighty super He-man with big guns and oozing masculinity?

If everyone was to be given an equal time in the spotlight, Marines wouldn't dominate so much. Can't say for sure, but I don't think the Empire dominates the WHFB fluff to the same extent as Imperium does the 40K. Some army books are written from the POV of the said race, rather than some human propaganda machine reports and rumours. Also what's the ration of human/alien novels in 40K and the ratio of human/non-human (I'm counting undead into this) novels in WHFB?

darknuke
05-09-2008, 06:30
i hate space marine players as most of the time i am fighting 2 tacticals and a bunch of vehicles. my friend dosent play his anymore but plays tau and fantasy now so thats always different. the fact i hate them gave me an idea of creating my own space marine army made of scouts and light vehicles. ive made much fluff for it and it will be fun to play and not the same crap every time. and no way are they gonna be smurfs because i hate the way ppl just spray paint blue, honestly id rather fight a broken army than lazly painted smurfs...its depressing. my armys a based around good background, and common
who dosent like fighting fluffy armys there so...light heated and creative and thats what
warhammer is aboot...useing your amagination and faceing challenges.

Imperialis_Dominatus
05-09-2008, 06:41
The only thing I don't understand is why someone has to make this thread every week? On every 40k forum?

"lolz guyz why does people play teh space marinez"

Because GW shoves them down our throats, if there's a 40k or GW logo on it there's a Space Marine on it somewhere. Because they have the most kits, and nearly all of them in plastic now. Because they're easy to paint and look good on top of that. Because they have the best learning curve, easy to recover from a mistake. Because you know for a fact they will continue to be top priority at GW and get the best rules and the most support, you will never have to worry about "Squats treatment" when you're a Marine player, or sit around for 10 years waiting for a codex or even one new kit. Because they have the best background, they're toted as "the good guys" fighting the good fight to save humanity, even though your average Marine would shoot a human for getting in his way and couldn't care less about protecting mankind.

It's a very, VERY easy question to answer. If frogs could talk you could go outside, pick one up, and it'd tell you the same thing, right before pissing in your hand and hopping away. There's really no need whatsoever to make these kinds of threads, all you need to do is open your eyes and look.

You could also just ASK people why they play Marines at your store.

Good one. This will suffice as my response.

pkain762
05-09-2008, 07:06
I'm not going to go deep into why people play the marines..... because everyone has chimed in..... but people play them because you can build a well rounded army or a specific army (ie meq, infantry, shooty, or combat) plus you can gain a different flavor through the different chapters..... Ultramarines, Blood angels, dark angels, salamanders, black templar, vanilla marines, white scars, imperial fists etc etc....

just remember this, every story has a protagonist..... gotta have a good guy and a bad guy..... and in the story of 40k the good guys are the space marines...... i play black templar... but that's simply because i love cc and i love the fluff of a chapter of marines being on a forever lasting crusade.... gotta love it... plus the minitures are awesome.....

but to each his own.... and sometimes you just have to say to yourself "when in rome..."


kain

Elbows of Death
05-09-2008, 18:13
I would play marines...if they were more along the lines of fluff. I'd like to see a single marine go stomping through an entire guard squad etc. I used to play Space Hulk...gah...what a fun game.

I play Eldar because they suck. :-)

sydbridges
05-09-2008, 19:11
Also what's the ration of human/alien novels in 40K and the ratio of human/non-human (I'm counting undead into this) novels in WHFB?

As far as 40k goes, using the BL site for information on books I haven't read (which are given a * to mark my uncertainty as to their placement), and skipping anthologies, and when it says "about", I mean, "They are the protagonists to the story".

Books about Guard - GG novels (First & Only, Ghostmaker, Necropolis, Honor Guard, Guns of Tanith, Straight Silver, Sabbat Martyr, Traitor General*, His Last Command*, Armor of Contempt*, Only in Death*), Last Chancers: 13th Legion*, Last Chancers: Kill Team*, For the Emperor, Caves of Ice, Last Chancers: Annihilation Squad*, The Traitor's Hand, Fifteen Hours*, Death or Glory, Death World*, Duty Calls*, Desert Raiders*, Double Eagle*
Books about Imperial Navy - Execution Hour*, Shadow Point*, Relentless*
Books about Loyal Marines - Space Wolf*, Ragnar's Claw*, Nightbringer, Grey Hunter*, Angels of Darkness*, Warriors of Ultramar*, Crusade for Armageddon*, Wolfblade*, Grey Knights* (arguably should be in Inquisition), Iron Hands*, Dead Sky Black Sun*, Dawn of War, Blood Angels: Deus Encarmine*, Blood Angels: Deus Sanguinius*, Warrior Brood*, Dawn of War: Ascension, Conquest of Armageddon*, Warrior Coven*, Dawn of War: Tempest, Sons of Fenris*, Brothers of the Snake, Dark Adeptus*, Hammer of Daemons*, Wolf's Honor*, The Killing Ground*, Assault on Black Reach*, Blood Angels: Red Fury*, Space Marine*
Books about Semi-Loyal Marines - Soul Drinker, The Bleeding Chalice, Crimson Tears, Chapter War
Books about Sisters of Battle - Faith and Fire
Books about Inquisition - Eisenhorn: Xenos, Eisenhorn: Malleus, Eisenhorn: Hereticus, Draco*, Ravenor*, Harlequin*, Chaos Child* (the second and third books in the Inquisition War are not listed on the site for some reason, but they are listed in the Inquisition War compilation), Ravenor Returned*, Ravenor Rogue*, Scourge the Heretic
Books about Arbites: Crossfire*, Legacy*, Blind*
Books about Rogue Traders - Eye of Terror*, Rogue Star*, Star of Damocles*, Farseer*
Books about Chaos Marines - Storm of Iron, Lord of the Night, Dark Apostle,
Books about Chaos Cultists - Pawns of Chaos*, Daemon World*
Books about Eldar - Eldar Prophecy*
Books about Tau - Fire Warrior*

Notes: I don't know how complete this list is, the earliest novel listed was Gaunt's Ghosts: First and Only in 1999. As noted above, anything with a * I have not read, and thus I relied on the description of the book to place it. If someone wishes to correct some of the book placements, go ahead.

So, what are the book totals:
Books about loyalist marines: 27
Books about semi-loyal marines: 4
Books about Chaos Marines: 3
Total books about marines: 34

Books about Imperial Guard: 23, over half by Dan Abnett
Books about Imperial Navy: 3
Books about Inquisition: 10
Books about Sisters of Battle: 1
Books about Arbites: 3
Books about Rogue Traders: 4
Books about Chaos Cultists: 2

Total books featuring human protagonists: 80 (34 Marine novels, 23 Guard, 3 Navy, 10 Inquistion, 1 SoB, 3 Arbites, 4 RT, 2 Cultist)

Books featuring non-human protagonists: 2 (1 Eldar, 1 Tau)

So, 40:1 is the ratio for human to non human 40k novels.

I don't have the patience to do this for fantasy, and I've read none of their novels, but if you're curious, the black library website is www.blacklibrary.com

...To be fair, I can't imagine reading an entire novel written from the PoV of an ork... "Den I saw dis otha guy, so I 'it him in da face really ard with me gun, and den I tried shootin im up with me choppa, but it dont got a shooty part, so I chopped im up good instead and den I saw anotha guy, so I shot him wit da shooty part of me slugga and chopped him with me choppa too and den I saw anotha guy..."

Edit 1: Pointing out % of guard novels written by Abnett
Edit 2: Moving Farseer from Eldar to Rogue Trader as suggested by Warp Zero, adjusting math appropriately to reflect, also realizing I was not counting Rogue Traders in the ratio and correcting them as under humans
Edit 3: Correcting the non-existent book "Double Wing" to "Double Eagle," moving it from Navy to Guard, thanks to Rioghan Murchadha for pointing out the mistake
Edit 4: Adding the novel Space Marine, thanks to Rioghan Murchadha for pointing out the absence
Edit 5: Moved Daemon World from Daemons to Cultists, thanks MrBigMr.

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
05-09-2008, 19:52
at least chaos gets quality novels :P

books indicate that imperium have more books about them than anyone else :F

it's bad move imo. i'm suprised by amount of tau and eldar books.

shame on GW!!

sydbridges
05-09-2008, 20:36
at least chaos gets quality novels :P

books indicate that imperium have more books about them than anyone else

Chaos would have done better if I include the HH novels, which are not listed under "Warhammer 40k" on the BL website, although since several of them focus primarily on the loyalists who don't fall to Chaos within the legions that fall, it'd be difficult to categorize them as Chaos or not Chaos convincingly.

Warp Zero
05-09-2008, 21:26
As far as 40k goes, using the BL site for information on books I haven't read (which are given a * to mark my uncertainty as to their placement), and skipping anthologies, and when it says "about", I mean, "They are the protagonists to the story".

Books about Eldar - Farseer*, Eldar Prophecy*
Books about Chaos Daemons - Daemon World*
Books about Tau - Fire Warrior*

As an Eldar player who would love to read a good Eldar book ... let me chime in here real quick. "Farseer" is not about an Eldar character. Its about a human Rogue Trader (he's the main character) who takes a commission to transport two Eldar someplace. I don't consider it really a full Eldar book. I consider it a Rogue Trader book that happens to have two Eldar appearing in it. All other Eldar books are unfortunately written by C.S. Goto. :cries:








...To be fair, I can't imagine reading an entire novel written from the PoV of an ork... "Den I saw dis otha guy, so I 'it him in da face really ard with me gun, and den I tried shootin im up with me choppa, but it dont got a shooty part, so I chopped im up good instead and den I saw anotha guy, so I shot him wit da shooty part of me slugga and chopped him with me choppa too and den I saw anotha guy..."

The "Blood and Thunder" comic is told through an Ork's POV that occasionally cuts to a parallel story of a captured human. I think any novel can be done with any race as the main protagonist (except for Necrons,Tyranids, and maybe Daemons).



Also, nothing is quite as enjoyable as beating an eldar player and then hearing about how cheesy *YOUR* marine army is (for being marines, of course). I really find if funny it it always seems its the eldar fanboi's that hate marines the most. See, my close friend is a total eldar fan boy, so I play eldar ALL THE TIME. How everyone feels about marines is how I feel about eldar, except I have more justification since the eldar ARE overpowered, and I've been dealing with *THEIR* overpowed b.s. since 2nd edition.


As an Eldar Fanboy myself, let me say this: I like Space Marines too. On behalf of normal Eldar players, allow me to apologize for the horrible ones you play against. But that's gonna happen with any army. We're bound to run into dorks who play too. As far as army hatred, actually, now that I think about it, there isn't a single 40k army I dislike. Okay, maybe Armored Company . . . because I think its a weird list that doesn't quite fit into the gameplay style intended for a regular game. Maybe. But mostly, I like every army. That of course could be that I'm not one of those guys that has to hate another army to support my own favorite.

As far as Eldar being overpowered since 2nd Edition? I disagree. As a veteran Eldar player I have to say that certain craftworld lists may be cheezy but not ALL Eldar were overpowered. Regular 3rd.ed Eldar Codex was definitely not overpowered. The newest Codex is probably the most balanced its been.

I believe Marines do very well against Eldar. I play against them regularly. The only times when I dominate over Marines is when the player doesn't take enough basic Marines. In other words, he sinks all his points into expensive HQ slots, or too many Dreadnoughts and Tanks. Lists that have tooled up Chap with a tooled up Master, with a Dreadnought, two Vindicators and like 2 troop choices usually get slaughtered by me. However, a Marine player with a good balanced list of troops and special units usually does very well and the game is real close.

sydbridges
05-09-2008, 21:45
As an Eldar player who would love to read a good Eldar book ... let me chime in here real quick. "Farseer" is not about an Eldar character. Its about a human Rogue Trader (he's the main character) who takes a commission to transport two Eldar someplace. I don't consider it really a full Eldar book. I consider it a Rogue Trader book that happens to have two Eldar appearing in it. All other Eldar books are unfortunately written by C.S. Goto. :cries:

Ah, so are either Warrior Brood or Warrior Coven primarily about the Eldar, or is it just the one book that C.S. Goto has written that features the Eldar as the primary protagonists?

Moving Farseer from Eldar to Rogue Trader brings the ratio of human to non-human protagonists in novels to 25:1. I'll adjust the post accordingly.


The "Blood and Thunder" comic is told through an Ork's POV that occasionally cuts to a parallel story of a captured human.

Having not read it, I can't really comment much on it, other than to suggest that the fact that comics have a fair amount of pictures would make up for what I would expect to be a low vocabulary narrator.

And I actually think one could write a novel from the perspective of the Necrons, given the new fluff that the Lords all have personalities and different domains of power in the tomb. I've been toying with the idea of fleshing out a fanfic about a Necron tomb world awakening as written from the point of view of one of the Lords.

Khorne warrior
06-09-2008, 02:17
They are the jack of all trades so they can do quite a bit. For my buddies, they like the fluff, and also say that a space marine is like Arnold Schawarzennager when he was hopped up on roids.

Warp Zero
06-09-2008, 02:41
Ah, so are either Warrior Brood or Warrior Coven primarily about the Eldar, or is it just the one book that C.S. Goto has written that features the Eldar as the primary protagonists?

The Eldar are protagonists in "Warrior Coven". They share a good amount of screentime with the Deathwatch Marines. I have not read "Warrior Brood". I think that one is more about Deathwatch and Tyranids.


I've been toying with the idea of fleshing out a fanfic about a Necron tomb world awakening as written from the point of view of one of the Lords.

I think that would make for some really cool reading. Although, I believe that style of writing fits more in short stories than in long novel length entries.

As far as the appeal of Marines, they do indeed have a lot of attractive aspects to them. I mean, let's attempt to break it down.

1. ) Lots of cool well-written fluff available.

2.) Appeals to so many aspects. Power armor, medieval knights, epic heroism. Plus, with each Chapter, it can appeal to fans of each different style of heroic warriors. Roman, Viking, Mongol, etc, etc....

3.) Lots of artwork to stir the imagination.

4.) Lots of models in beautiful and affordable plastic.

5.) Lots of support from the parent company.

If you look at it, as an army, it doesn't have a weakness. Then take a look at other armies. Each of them are at least weak in one of the above areas.

Eldar: beautiful models, great codex, ....horrible novels.....
Imperial Guard: beautiful models, great novels, but a lot to paint, and in the end, a sort of 'meh' Codex. Or so a lot of players seem to feel.
Tau: Mostly cool cool models, great codex, barely a presence in the Black Library, and not seen too often in White Dwarf either.

So on and so on.

Space Marines are the like the girl in the bar who is the hottest looking, smartest, funniest, and is really good at painting minis. How are the other girls in the bar gonna compete with that? Meanwhile, the Imperial Guard player hits on the overweight girl with no make up because she feels more "real" and the Necron player doesn't care that his date has fake boobs. :D

Gatsby
06-09-2008, 03:19
Necron player doesn't care that his date has fake boobs. :D

Who cares if they're fake, with all the implants she looks like a super model :chrome:

But to be fair, SM's would be the average looking girl that everyone could get, whereas the DE girl is the hot kinky one, Eldar ones a Snobby ***** (although hot), Tau the Emo one, IG would be more the soccer mom....

loveless
06-09-2008, 03:21
Tau are emo? That's a new one. If anything's emo in 40K, it's Dark Angels, Eldar, and certain Slaaneshi sects. :p

Gatsby
06-09-2008, 03:24
Tau are emo? That's a new one. If anything's emo in 40K, it's Dark Angels, Eldar, and certain Slaaneshi sects. :p

i dont know i always saw them as commies, and most of the emos ive met are semi commie (commie bastards...)... but slaanesh goes to the hot kinky girl same as the DE, but yes DA are rather emo.

sydbridges
06-09-2008, 03:24
Eldar: beautiful models, great codex, ....horrible novels.....
Imperial Guard: beautiful models, great novels, but a lot to paint, and in the end, a sort of 'meh' Codex. Or so a lot of players seem to feel.
Tau: Mostly cool cool models, great codex, barely a presence in the Black Library, and not seen too often in White Dwarf either.

Now now now, Tau at least have a single book where they are the protagonist, and have shown up as either antagonists or at least as "those guys over there who're being racially profiled for looking suspiciously Xenos in an all Imperium neighborhood." If someone was going to complain about having no presence, it'd be the Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks, and Tyranids, all of whom don't feature as the protagonists in any novels.

loveless
06-09-2008, 03:28
DA are rather emo.

Crawwwwwling in my robes!
The Faaaallen need purgation!
:p

Rioghan Murchadha
06-09-2008, 04:56
Re: The long laundry list of books;
Forgot 'Double Eagle' also by Dan Abnett. About the Phantine XX Imperial Guard fighter squadron.

AngryAngel
06-09-2008, 05:30
Two points here, Double Eagle shouldn't have been forgotten in the list, as I actually enjoyed it was a good read. Second. the DA are not emo. They're more honor bound Samurais mono tasked with cleaning up their own house before their honor is called into question. Yes, they'll do horrible things to maintain their secrets safety. Honor doesn't always mean good however.

Most of the stories infact talked of in their codex are about the ultimate sacrifice to maintain honor and perform their duty. Like the story behind the bleached bone armor of the Deathwing terminators. To purge the stain on their honor, is their foremost mission before they can leave the past behind and move on. They don't whine about it, or cry about it, they just do stuff about it.

sydbridges
06-09-2008, 05:38
Two points here, Double Eagle shouldn't have been forgotten in the list

It wasn't forgotten, I'd just mistyped it as Double Wing (having written some approximately 80 book titles down, I was bound to mess up at least one name in the transition from reading name, storing name in brain, and typing said name), and then I put it under Imperial Navy (as I figured fighters -> Navy) rather than Imperial Guard (it has since been properly named and moved.)

blackroyal
06-09-2008, 05:55
...To be fair, I can't imagine reading an entire novel written from the PoV of an ork... "Den I saw dis otha guy, so I 'it him in da face really ard with me gun, and den I tried shootin im up with me choppa, but it dont got a shooty part, so I chopped im up good instead and den I saw anotha guy, so I shot him wit da shooty part of me slugga and chopped him with me choppa too and den I saw anotha guy..."


It might be fun if someone where to write a bunch of short stories dealing with an Ork incursion that included all of the known types of Ork. From their perspective of course. "den da boss sayz I gots ta go an see whuts de trouble wid the trukk."

Rioghan Murchadha
06-09-2008, 06:17
It wasn't forgotten, I'd just mistyped it as Double Wing (having written some approximately 80 book titles down, I was bound to mess up at least one name in the transition from reading name, storing name in brain, and typing said name), and then I put it under Imperial Navy (as I figured fighters -> Navy) rather than Imperial Guard (it has since been properly named and moved.)

Sorry.. Just remembered one more...

'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. About the Imperial Fists when they were latent homosexual, poop-fetishists.

Was actually the first 40k novel ever published.

Warp Zero
06-09-2008, 06:28
Now now now, Tau at least have a single book where they are the protagonist, and have shown up as either antagonists or at least as "those guys over there who're being racially profiled for looking suspiciously Xenos in an all Imperium neighborhood." If someone was going to complain about having no presence, it'd be the Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks, and Tyranids, all of whom don't feature as the protagonists in any novels.

Hey now, I didn't say they had no presence. I said "barely a presence". I am well aware of Firewarrior and For the Emperor. Then there's Kill Team, but they're antagonists in that one.

Personally, I just want more screen time for the less exposed armies. I don't care if its as a protagonist or an antogonist. But as an Eldar player, I still wait for at least one kick @$$ Eldar novel. However, before I started my Eldar army, I came very close to doing Tyranid. So, there's still a part of me that wanted to read a really good Tyranid book. Warriors of Ultramar was descent, but still not quite there. Then came along Desert Warriors. Now that's a good Tyranid novel! :D


Who cares if they're fake, with all the implants she looks like a super model

Exactly. That's a Necron player for you. :D Translation: Necron player doesn't care if his warriors are souless robots or that his Monolith cheats to get the job done. Just like a man who doesn't care if his girlfriend's boobs are fake. He just likes that they're big.


But to be fair, SM's would be the average looking girl that everyone could get, whereas the DE girl is the hot kinky one, Eldar ones a Snobby ***** (although hot), Tau the Emo one, IG would be more the soccer mom....

My analogy was to serve an example of perception and popularity not of obtainability or style/essence. Using my analogy form, the Dark Eldar is the hot girl that was in a car accident and we're all just waiting for when her bandages come off. ;) Translation: Players love the fluff and love the idea behind it, we're just waiting for GW to make new models.

sydbridges
06-09-2008, 06:37
Sorry.. Just remembered one more...

'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. About the Imperial Fists when they were latent homosexual, poop-fetishists.

Was actually the first 40k novel ever published.

Okay, I've confirmed the existence of said novel (although the summary I found of it doesn't entirely match your summary), and I'll add it to the list.

deathwing_marine
06-09-2008, 06:55
Exactly. That's a Necron player for you. :D Translation: Necron player doesn't care if his warriors are souless robots or that his Monolith cheats to get the job done. Just like a man who doesn't care if his girlfriend's boobs are fake. He just likes that they're big.

Haha, thats so true. Dont even try to deny it Necron players. :D
I actually find that Tau players are the whiniest though. Yet they have railguns, jet packs, S5 basic weapons, constantly obscured vehicles, etc etc...
For the record, I play Dark Angels and Eldar.

I like the way you think Warp Zero, and demand more of your translations.

Oh and the Last Chancers novels are amazing. It was so cool when they went in alone against the Tau.

Amnar
06-09-2008, 08:12
The only thing I don't understand is why someone has to make this thread every week? On every 40k forum?

"lolz guyz why does people play teh space marinez"

Because GW shoves them down our throats, if there's a 40k or GW logo on it there's a Space Marine on it somewhere. Because they have the most kits, and nearly all of them in plastic now. Because they're easy to paint and look good on top of that. Because they have the best learning curve, easy to recover from a mistake. Because you know for a fact they will continue to be top priority at GW and get the best rules and the most support, you will never have to worry about "Squats treatment" when you're a Marine player, or sit around for 10 years waiting for a codex or even one new kit. Because they have the best background, they're toted as "the good guys" fighting the good fight to save humanity, even though your average Marine would shoot a human for getting in his way and couldn't care less about protecting mankind.

It's a very, VERY easy question to answer. If frogs could talk you could go outside, pick one up, and it'd tell you the same thing, right before pissing in your hand and hopping away. There's really no need whatsoever to make these kinds of threads, all you need to do is open your eyes and look.

You could also just ASK people why they play Marines at your store.

You win :)

Rioghan Murchadha
06-09-2008, 16:48
Okay, I've confirmed the existence of said novel (although the summary I found of it doesn't entirely match your summary), and I'll add it to the list.

Heh.. Of course it wouldn't. You'd have to read it to find all the good bits. To sum up, Imp Fist chaplains sit on a nerve stimulating seat while taking confession, and then crap out the sins of their battle brothers. When the 3 main characters are in the scout company, they have to climb a rock chimney during a mission. The author goes into great detail about how being cramped into the small space makes them fart in each other's faces. To top it all off, it is blatantly apparent that 'middle' main character is completely in love with the 'main' main character.

There's also squats in it, which is awesome.

MrBigMr
06-09-2008, 20:30
Who cares if they're fake, with all the implants she looks like a super model :chrome:
And feels like a rubber doll... Come on, what good is a girl you can't take a good hold of?


Tau the Emo one
Tau are the proletarian feminists, the turtle neck, geeky ex-hippie vegan tree hugger that shuns sexuality (because she's not getting any) and all that. One that's more of a friend than a girlfriend. The "one of the guys", but also quite clear about her oppinions and sticks by them strongly, even believes in them.


'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. About the Imperial Fists when they were latent homosexual, poop-fetishists.
Imagine their insignia with a bit of brown and some stinky lines... Let alone the Crimson Fists.


Books featuring non-human protagonists: 3 (1 Eldar, 1 Daemons, 1 Tau)
If the daemon one comes from Daemon World, the novels was more about cultists and Chaos Marines than about daemons. The main character was a tribal barbarian living on the world. The others were the ruler of the planet (mortal) and two Marines.

But thanks. It was a rhetorical question really, but glad it got answered non the less. Gives a good picture of how things are in the world.


...To be fair, I can't imagine reading an entire novel written from the PoV of an ork... "Den I saw dis otha guy, so I 'it him in da face really ard with me gun, and den I tried shootin im up with me choppa, but it dont got a shooty part, so I chopped im up good instead and den I saw anotha guy, so I shot him wit da shooty part of me slugga and chopped him with me choppa too and den I saw anotha guy..."
Never say never. Ever. I'm going a semi-humorous Ork 40K army/BFG fleet based on Moby Dick (Orkhab's White Whalers, flying around on a looted Void-Whale), which just calls for some fluff.


As an Eldar player who would love to read a good Eldar book...
As a person who can't stand elves/Eldar, I too would still love to read an Eldar book. Or anything outside of the rugged Imperial military life in general. I'm more interested on the world outside of the preset slogan ("there is only war"), which is a very big misnomer no matter what some think. I've read enough fluff and novels to find many references to far less grimdark themes. I just get more out of it than the basic theme of Imperium pwning everything, which starts to be more worn down concept than basic porn movies.

But sometimes one just has to get creative and maybe he/she is lucky enough to hit the spot. Like I did when I opted for sensitive Eldar ears long before reading Xenology and having that notion confirmed.


I consider it a Rogue Trader book that happens to have two Eldar appearing in it.
I don't know, as there's quite a lot of Eldar stuff presented in it, which I at least found interesting, though there is no telling how "official" any of it was. Not to forget errors here and there, such as calling a greater daemon daemon prince.


(except for Necrons,Tyranids, and maybe Daemons).
Necrons aren't just dumb machines. Lord in particular are sentient and would make perfect characters. There are novels from POV of animals, so 'Nids aren't that far. There just wouldn't be much conversation and merely 3rd party, nature documentary style narration of the creature's actions. And there are "characters" such as Old One Eye and Red Terror among the 'Nid ranks. And daemons... Guess all you need are lots of words. Just because they see things differently doesn't mean they don't see (http://zebragirl.keenspot.com/images/entry7.jpg) (sorry, I just find it funny). And GD's especially seem to be quite sentient and characterful. Not to forget that with this new old school, Greek god drama Chaos, there's more room for such crap.


As an Eldar Fanboy myself, let me say this: I like Space Marines too.
*gasp*
Heresy!


But that's gonna happen with any army.
Except Guard. I don't know any Guard player who doesn't think dying by the bunch for nothing isn't suitable for the Guard ("Haven't you heard, colonel, that's what the Mobile Infantry is good for."). One of my favourite bits of fluff is in my CA2004 under Armoured Company. In it a farseer spots the Guard commander across the battlefield and pops the officer's head with a little flex of his brain.


Crawwwwwling in my robes!
The Faaaallen need purgation!
:p
Lion burned a hundred worlds just so he would feel something...

sydbridges
06-09-2008, 20:47
If the daemon one comes from Daemon World, the novels was more about cultists and Chaos Marines than about daemons. The main character was a tribal barbarian living on the world. The others were the ruler of the planet (mortal) and two Marines.

I've moved it from Chaos Daemons to Cultists, this makes the ratio 40:1 for books about humans to non-humans. Thanks for the input.


Never say never. Ever. I'm going a semi-humorous Ork 40K army/BFG fleet based on Moby Dick (Orkhab's White Whalers, flying around on a looted Void-Whale), which just calls for some fluff.

I quite honestly look forward to this.


Heh.. Of course it wouldn't. You'd have to read it to find all the good bits. To sum up, Imp Fist chaplains sit on a nerve stimulating seat while taking confession, and then crap out the sins of their battle brothers. When the 3 main characters are in the scout company, they have to climb a rock chimney during a mission. The author goes into great detail about how being cramped into the small space makes them fart in each other's faces. To top it all off, it is blatantly apparent that 'middle' main character is completely in love with the 'main' main character.

I can't imagine why it's not on the BL website and they have repeatedly said they will never reprint it...

g0ddy
09-09-2008, 00:42
Rule of Cool.

~zilla

etham
09-09-2008, 01:10
Why does everyone come to Warsser and complain about "everyone" playing space marines.

All you need to do to understand this is look at the history of the company. GW invented space marines first. They've been around longer. They've had more development time. They have more players. More players recommend them to other players. Their rules have been developed for a longer period of time so they work better. Simple.

Why is it a problem?

Burnthem
09-09-2008, 01:16
Never say never. Ever. I'm going a semi-humorous Ork 40K army/BFG fleet based on Moby Dick (Orkhab's White Whalers, flying around on a looted Void-Whale), which just calls for some fluff.

You, sir, are a genius. More please!

Aun'shi, hero of Fio'vash
09-09-2008, 01:26
Why do most players choose Space Marines?

They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear.

Is this a good reason? :D

I started this army cause I wanted to play some imperial troops after years of non-human races.
And I started Ultramarines because...I terribly like blue...:evilgrin:

MrBigMr
09-09-2008, 08:31
You, sir, are a genius. More please!
Ask, and thou shall receive:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154171
The thread that sprung the whole idea and also later own holds some of my idea about the force. Also links to the army list I'm working on.

Iracundus
09-09-2008, 09:19
Heh.. Of course it wouldn't. You'd have to read it to find all the good bits. To sum up, Imp Fist chaplains sit on a nerve stimulating seat while taking confession, and then crap out the sins of their battle brothers. When the 3 main characters are in the scout company, they have to climb a rock chimney during a mission. The author goes into great detail about how being cramped into the small space makes them fart in each other's faces. To top it all off, it is blatantly apparent that 'middle' main character is completely in love with the 'main' main character.


The second character had a love/hate relationship with the main character, just as in his former life as a middle class hive worker he both envied yet despised the nobility of the spire (which is where the main character hails from). He wanted to protect the main character in order to humiliate him by denying him the opportunity to martyr himself and make himself a hero in the Chapter's eyes. It went into a bit about the Imperial Fists' flaw of masochism, which is their obsession with overcoming pain through strength of will leading to a possible deliberate invitation to suffer pain in order to overcome it.

That aside, the Space Marine book was good for its portrayal of the moral compass of the Space Marines (or rather the lack of any that modern people would agree with). In a training exercise with live fire weaponry and live targets (presumably mind-wiped but never confirmed to be), the trainee Marines get told to cleanse a village. They do so, massacring every man, woman, and child, purely based on the order of their superior just as they did in the course of the book to anyone stood against them (and by extension the Emperor). Their oft repeated phrase: "To slay is to pray"

Overall it was a good book to dispel the notion of Space Marines as shiny armored do-gooder superheroes.

hawo0313
09-09-2008, 12:18
when i first played W40k I was tought to play space marines probably because half the stores miniatures are ultramarines.

so i guess that is why i use them now