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MrBigMr
02-09-2008, 05:56
I have two sets of Skull Pass miners that I don't think I'm ever gonna use. I started to think that I could convert them into great weapon carrying dwarfs, but what type of a unit should I do them as? Simple Warriors with great weapons, how about Quarrellers with great weapons? What about Rangers?

I have mostly a gunline army in the works, so what would fit them?

Stinkfoot
02-09-2008, 06:17
It's really a waste to give great weapons to quarrellers, and rangers aren't terribly good troops in general. Small flanking units of warriors with great weapons are nice additions to an infantry army, but for a gunline you're better off sticking to hw/sh (or not using a gunline, which would be my preference).

MrBigMr
02-09-2008, 06:53
(or not using a gunline, which would be my preference)
I already field a pure Slaanesh daemon army with no shooting nor magic, so I wanted something different, and what's more different than a slow, tough, dwarf gunline? Besides, was cheap and easy to make.

RossS
02-09-2008, 07:15
I second the giving great weapons to warriors. I use great weapon armed dwarfs in my DOW army, and they can generally take care of of business. They are hard as nails and, when required, can really dish it out.

MrBigMr
02-09-2008, 07:30
What size of a unit would be good (10, 15?) and should I give then anything special (command models?)

Malorian
02-09-2008, 15:51
An army made of mainly quarellers with great weapons is a scary thing (needs an anvil).

You can out shoot an army, have enough units to be MSU and bait chargers, and then enough combat power to win once you hit the flanks. The anvil gives them basically a 12 inch charge range and they can do a lot of damage.

Othiem
03-09-2008, 02:34
It's really a waste to give great weapons to quarrellers

This one I have to disagree with. With the dwarven handgun's +1 to BS, I've theorycrafted the hell out of them, and quarrellers never come out ahead, not even when you give them an extra round of shooting from their extra 6" range, even assuming no armor save. Great weapons are the only unique advantage that quarrellers have, frankly if you're not taking them I don't understand why you would field quarrellers at all. Most fast calv that your range will face are not that threatening to a WS4 T4 unit. At the very least you can guarentee that if they do manage to break through your range, the unit will be disabled to the point where it is not a threat to your warmachines.

Stinkfoot
03-09-2008, 02:55
Othiem: I don't really understand how your fast cav example makes GWs worth it on quarrellers. You'll beat fast cav in combat anyway, and things that you won't beat anyway (such as charging knights) will still destroy you. You're much better off keeping the unit cheap and trying to maximize your damage output per point. In the off chance you DO want your quarrellers to get into combat (and I've had it happen to me before), you're hw/sh will probably work well enough.

Thunderers have a higher damage output but, since they cost more and are no harder to kill, have worse defense. 14 quarrellers do less damage than 11 thunderers, but it takes more to remove them and the effort to remove one has less of an effect on your damage output (both units cost the same, for those who are following). I do prefer thunderers, but you're analysis is too narrow if you only look at offense per point.

Othiem
03-09-2008, 04:35
Othiem: I don't really understand how your fast cav example makes GWs worth it on quarrellers. You'll beat fast cav in combat anyway, and things that you won't beat anyway (such as charging knights) will still destroy you. You're much better off keeping the unit cheap and trying to maximize your damage output per point. In the off chance you DO want your quarrellers to get into combat (and I've had it happen to me before), you're hw/sh will probably work well enough.

Thunderers have a higher damage output but, since they cost more and are no harder to kill, have worse defense. 14 quarrellers do less damage than 11 thunderers, but it takes more to remove them and the effort to remove one has less of an effect on your damage output (both units cost the same, for those who are following). I do prefer thunderers, but you're analysis is too narrow if you only look at offense per point.

I guess my thinking was less of making it worth having GWs, and more of GWs as the only thing I could see that would ever make me want to field quarrellers as opposed to thunderers. I found that the increased damage output from GWs more than made up for the lost defense of hw/shield. While you do raise a good point that sheer numbers help against attrition from enemy range, magic, etc, I find that the larger units disadvantage of requiring larger firing lanes for lines of sight and spending more of my precious 6" move to wheel and maneuver onto a hill outweigh the marginally higher survivability.

I can see where you're coming from, but I feel if your going to operate under the maximize damage for point principle to avoid GWs, you'd have gone with thunderers anyways. Just depends which way you want to specialize your sup-par shooters.

RossS
03-09-2008, 06:45
How much does a quarreler with great weapon/Ranger cost? For DOW they are a bit on the pricey side.

aeon flux
04-09-2008, 05:17
hey, why don't you just use them as miners? I always take 2 small units with a steam drill, to deploy behind the enemy war machines and give them crews some great weapon pain. it's won me more battles than I care to remember.

MrBigMr
04-09-2008, 06:15
I guess I've always been conditioned into keeping my hand off of miners. And seeing that I already have a cannon, 2 bolt throwers and a unit or hammerers, I don't have much room. I quess I could squeeze in one unit. But what type of? 10, with a musician, chapion and steam drill for 150pts.?

Gokamok
04-09-2008, 13:19
My good ol' Dwarven semi-gunline (which has won a few tournaments) included a unit of 10 miners AND a unit of 20 warriors with GW. I generally find that a large unit of GW wielding dwarves are well worth it, as long as you manage to position them in a way so that they won't take a charge from the enemy's most nasty units.

As has been pointed out, Miners are great for ambushing war machines and missile troops, and against armies with no shooting, they work just fine when deployed as a part of your main battle line.

MrBigMr
04-09-2008, 14:58
I guess that you can always use Miners to come from the sides and flank enemies that have reached your lines, right? Taken that your army is wide enough. But I'm afraid there's no way to squeeze 40pts. out to make any of my Warrior units armed with GWs. But who knows what the future brings.

Solon
04-09-2008, 18:37
The OP can mix his miners with his Clan Warriors for some variety. This way he retains the choice of giving the unit GW or sticking with hw.

Malorian
04-09-2008, 18:47
I like the idea of taking miners as a unit of 10 with a banner. With two units like these and an anvil no warmachine or ranged unit is safe.

In bigger games I'm playing with the idea of a fully ranked unit with full command and steam drill, so it could come on and take on the toughest units rather than just picking on the weak ones.

bork da basher
04-09-2008, 18:50
personnally i dont like giving my warriors GW's, i much prefer handweapon/shield combo for a 3+ save T4 with full CR. the only unit i use GW's on are my hammerers but theres been times when i prefer them to use their hw/shields.

Grom Wronghand
04-09-2008, 19:15
If you ask me I'd use them as Miners. Though I wouldn't use a gunline, that's your decision and has nothing to do with me, Miners can really help in slowing down the enemy and letting you shoot them a bit more.

the Khaki Campbell
06-09-2008, 07:15
On the converting side for your miners, i made mine into hammerers(with the other minner box set ) and the loook pretty coll. i used plasticard for hammers and game them big mel like hammers. but miners in a gun line army are really needed and great weapons on quarrellers can be a nasty surprise and for beating most flyers and fast calvery and making them lose combat res so the run, freeing up the unit to fire again

MrBigMr
06-09-2008, 19:43
Though I wouldn't use a gunline, that's your decision and has nothing to do with me
What an odd thing to say really. Even if it did have something to do with you, I wouldn't hold it against you, my friend.

But you people have talked me into getting some miners. 10 with musician and standard. I might get some GW quarrellers in the future, as the idea of big teslacoiled blades is just too tempting for me.