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antrm
02-09-2008, 22:27
hi all the other day gaming we came across a grey area in rules(well to us anyway)i shot out 5 empire calavery leaving only the mage alive he then failed his panic test and ran.but we arn't sure if he can rally as he was part of a unit and less than 25%left does he get a roll?

we chatted about it looked up rules and it says a character can leave a unit in his movement phase but rally is done before that so is he still considered part of the dead unit ,or when they all died is he then a single char and can rally?

thx in advance for replies....we havnt played fantasy in about 5 or 6 years and just starting to get a feel for it again

therat
02-09-2008, 23:29
He'd get a roll as when his comrades died, he was left alone and since he as his own unit started out at US 1 and is still at 100% of that US he is still capable of rallying.

antrm
02-09-2008, 23:59
he may be unit str 1 and 100% of it but he fled from panic and i cant see anywhere in rules that when unit died he is free of them..now when he can move he is free but you rally before moving...also if part of the unit lived and as a whole they are under 25% i cant see how he would rally..they are 1 unit

charatcers cant join or leave a fleeing unit(pge 72 in rule book)my query is if he gets option to rally or until he can move is he still part of they unit(dead as it is)

therat
03-09-2008, 00:40
Now that I'm home and have a BRB handy, I retract the statement in my edit about the character being able to rally while his unit is under 25%.

The rally rule states that "characters may never join/leave a fleeing unit," but this character would not be doing so, as his unit was wiped out. This begs the question, is the character freed or not when they die?

Condottiere
03-09-2008, 00:58
The unit no longer exists and he is by his lonesome; if not, half the VP of the unit would be vested in him. He gets to rally.

therat
03-09-2008, 00:59
The unit no longer exists and he is by his lonesome; if not, half the VP of the unit would be vested in him. He gets to rally.

I would have to agree.

antrm
03-09-2008, 01:02
we talked about it and decided he is part of the unit until he is able to leave it..as such with raly phase before movement he is still in the (dead)unit and couldnt rally...what scared us was they thought of a big point char fleeing off like this..seemed an easy way lose alot of points on 1 panic roll

but i would still like someone to give me a referance if we did the right thing or if after the first panice he can rally as he is alone.

SolarHammer
03-09-2008, 01:18
You need a page reference to say that when a unit is totally destroyed a character can no longer be considered a part of it?

Seriously? Good luck, and may we never cross paths.

RavenBloodwind
03-09-2008, 02:45
I think the key thing to keep in mind is that the character did not start the game as part of the unit. He JOINED the unit (even during deployment) and was then part of it. He is fundamentally a 'unit' by himself but as a character can join a unit. He is not an upgrade of the original unit and, as such, when the unit is dead (and therefore gone) he reverts to being a unit by himself and as posted earlier can rally.

The painful version is if you kill most of a unit that the character is with but one lone schlub from the unit survives along with the character. At that point they cannot rally.

Condottiere
03-09-2008, 03:04
Another reason to keep unit size of expensive regiments to seven.

antrm
03-09-2008, 03:21
many thx ravenblood that seems logical and will help..also is alot more even way to play,his char was in 5 empire knights and was a fairy heavy blow(not helped by him failing 4 3+saves out of 5)

oh and solar i am part of a gaming group and if i could go back to them and point out on page xyz it clearly states what we do then it would be easy to show them..your attitude was not needed,but a more constructive post as above would have helped

Tarax
03-09-2008, 07:04
On p.19 BRB are the rules for Rallying Troops. It gives a rather meagre example of units above or below 25%.

In short, a single character model is a unit. Therefore he can rally if on his own. Even if the unit he was with was killed and he fled as a result.
If at least one model from the unit was still alive, you look at the total number of models, including the character, at the start of the game, to see whether you are above or below 25%.

Hope this helps.

Armilthuan
03-09-2008, 07:23
Ask yourself this, how can a character be part of a unit that is no longer on the tabletop? There is no unit anymore to hide in, so the character reverts to becoming a unit in his own right (which started at US2 in your example).

It's the same as allowing a character to join the unit of knights that just got killed.

antrm
03-09-2008, 16:14
i am happy enough with letting the char rally and wish to thank you all for the promt replies,our issue was when the lone char is considered alone..he fled because of unit dying and we wern't sure if he is considered alone in the next phase(and therefore can rally)or is he still under the unit psychology until HIS movement phase...as such with rally before that he couldnt rally.

many thx for helping us clear this issue up

SolarHammer
03-09-2008, 17:49
our issue was when the lone char is considered alone

What else could a lone character be considered to be?

narrativium
04-09-2008, 14:34
No, it's a reasonable confusion.

Take as example a unit of eleven rank-and-file and add a character, then inflict ten casualties and have it panic. The two fleeing models, including character, cannot rally, as they're less than 25% of the original twelve. The character can't leave. If the unit suffers a further casualty, it can make sense that after this further trauma, the character shouldn't be suddenly free to rally.

If instead it was ten rank-and-file and two characters, and the characters survived, then they wouldn't be able to rally - but individually, they would.

It's similar to a character being the only survivor of a unit under the effects of a remains in play spell. It's not as though the owning player chose to have the character leave the unit, but since the character and the unit are now separated (by casualties rather than positioning) the spell now transfers to the character alone.

I agree with the verdict - as a lone character, the hero/lord shakes off the responsibility of the immediate loss to focus on the battle, he gets to rally and keep fighting, but I can see why it's confusing.

antrm
05-09-2008, 00:32
i think solar just wants to flame,but for me the problem is sorted:)