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slaanghoul
03-09-2008, 15:30
I think one of the main reason why GW can not move the time line of 40K is because then the game name would have to change. It is Warhammer 40K right now, but if GW keep moving to 41 or 42 and so on. . . the game name would be daft.

What I've learn from GW mistake is that you should never have a date in a title of anything if you want something to be able to move forward. The fluff of 40k is one of the best out there; infact, i think that it is so good that fans want to see what happens in the future of 41K.

I think Warhammer Fantasy name will work. GW can keep going and let Empire get crushed by chaos or whatever(just an example here) and the name will stick. 40K, you just can't.

Whitehorn
03-09-2008, 15:36
But it is the 41st Millennium. I don't see your point :)

Everyone plays 40k games in different eras. My guys are pre-30k.

malika
03-09-2008, 15:37
Why bother moving to M41 or M42? I mean we've got at least 65 million years of history (and gaming) to fill in for an area which is basically our galaxy.

Whitehorn
03-09-2008, 15:41
Another thing.. the game isn't called 40k, that's just an abbreviation. It is Warhammer 40,000:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/library/logos/40klogo470px.jpg

The game isn't set in 40,000, nor is that the actual date of the 'static era' we're stuck in.

Shibboleth
03-09-2008, 15:58
I think as long as they don't go past 49,999 they can still technically call it WH40,000, since it's all still in the '40,000's'...

Lothlanathorian
03-09-2008, 19:03
lol @ Shibboleth. I think you have a good point, my friend, though I do understand Slaanghoul's gripe with the name. The background of the game has reached the year 40, 999 and it is at like, 23:59 just before the 1st day of the year 41,000. I don't think they'd have to change the name if the next big campaign took place in the year 41, 067.

Idaan
03-09-2008, 20:59
The first year of M42 is the year 41,001, not 41,000
The first year of 3rd millennium is the year 2001, not 2000.
That's because the first year of the AD calendar is the year 1, as there's no year 0.

Just wanted to point it out.

Grimbad
03-09-2008, 22:43
Up till now, perhaps that was the reason they stayed at 999.m41. But with 5th edition they've really dug themselves in. At this point the Imperium has only a few minutes before the **** really hits the ceiling fan. They've made it a virtual impossibility for the majority of the Imperium to last more than a few days.
Of course, if they were nice, they could make a transitional campaign between millenia with warzones all over the galaxy to report results in. Naturally this would be rigged as the way it stands now failure anywhere means failure everywhere.

Templar Ben
04-09-2008, 00:26
I think one of the main reason why GW can not move the time line of 40K is because then the game name would have to change. It is Warhammer 40K right now, but if GW keep moving to 41 or 42 and so on. . . the game name would be daft.

What I've learn from GW mistake is that you should never have a date in a title of anything if you want something to be able to move forward. The fluff of 40k is one of the best out there; infact, i think that it is so good that fans want to see what happens in the future of 41K.

I think Warhammer Fantasy name will work. GW can keep going and let Empire get crushed by chaos or whatever(just an example here) and the name will stick. 40K, you just can't.

I will take what you said seriously the day 20th Century Fox changes their name.

That is just silly.

PondaNagura
04-09-2008, 00:31
hmm, aren't the ciaphas cain memoirs written from M.42?
really it's wouldn't need to change until it hits the 50,000s, since anything with the date up until their is still in the 40's, 'k? that's a lot of ground to cover...look at what's happended since 30k.

otherwise the fluff will become stale, and there's no bill murray to fix this galactic groundhog's day.

DarkAzrael169
04-09-2008, 01:22
I will take what you said seriously the day 20th Century Fox changes their name.

That is just silly.

I was totally thinking about 20th Century Fox and them updating that lol.... But indeed good point. However I don't think they really need to change the game name to advance forward in the timeline. They still wouldn't do it though. :cries:

Inquisitor Engel
04-09-2008, 01:32
I was totally thinking about 20th Century Fox and them updating that lol.... But indeed good point. However I don't think they really need to change the game name to advance forward in the timeline. They still wouldn't do it though. :cries:

They're ahead of the game. :)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/211/444032460_6ffb5f86d8.jpg?v=0

slaanghoul
04-09-2008, 02:08
I think as long as they don't go past 49,999 they can still technically call it WH40,000, since it's all still in the '40,000's'...

QFTW

U got a good point there. So I guess 10k is a long time lol

slaanghoul
04-09-2008, 02:37
I will take what you said seriously the day 20th Century Fox changes their name.

That is just silly.

I don't think it is the same thing. 40k codex and rules are based on current timeline. All their equipment is based on this timeline so if GW moved the time line to year 41500 AD in 7ed or so. . . The name just doesn't ring a bell. However, somebody made a good point the game is Warhammer 40,0000 so as long as the time is not ahead of 49,999 AD then it would be ok. Kind of, but still doesn't fit too well.

20th century never claim to only make movies on that century. They've made movies about caveman to far sic-fi future. This is just like some beer company that said. .. been in business since 1870. Not the same. 20th century is just a name of the company. Not a name of a game that set place in that time.

The reason why GW put 40K in the name is because we are fighting at that time line. The point here is GW put the game at that timeline, so we are kind of stuck at that timeline forever.

40K is always about 40,000 AD give or take a few 100 years.

I know GW made some special WD Heresy battle with a few modify rules and equipment to fight in 30,0000 AD, but it was just a special setting... that is all.

All of us old vet understand that the timeline and the name of the game is almost moot because we want GW to move forward. However, if GW did .. . just picture 15 years from now. It is 2023, GW have advanced the timeline to 45,0000 AD. The codex of every Xeno reflect that. Imperial is no longer the super power, the Emperor is dead , the EoT spread over 50% of the galaxy. Human are the now dying race, etc. . . A new kid pick up WH40K 12ed for the first time and question ... why is the game not call Warhammer 45K. Why is it still call Warhammer 40K when the current timeline is 45K.

If you don't think that 40K is important .. . then GW could have called it Warhammer 30,000 even if we are playing in 40,000. Everybody would be asking why the heck is the game name set 10,000 years back, but all the codexes is 10,000 years in the future???

Another example is, say GW make a game name Bomb 1939 about WW2 table top war game and the game was such a hit that ppl want GW to move the time line to Korea war and then Vietnam and finally Gulf War. Wouldn't the name "Bomb 1939" sounds kind of stupid? They should just name it Bomb in that case.

So my point is. . . GW should have name it something like Warhammer Galaxy or something that never mention a timeline so it can move forward. Now we are stuck and GW will never moved it forward.

Chaplain of Chaos
04-09-2008, 02:47
I think 40k is a perfectly valid title up until 50k.

Your example doesn't fit because the game is called Warhammer 40,000, not Warhammer 40,999.

slaanghoul
04-09-2008, 03:21
I think 40k is a perfectly valid title up until 50k.

Your example doesn't fit because the game is called Warhammer 40,000, not Warhammer 40,999.

why is it up to 50K? The game is not Warhammer 40,0000's

I don't know, is it just that most people like to associate that it is ok to round off to the first digit?

OK, then the game name is Bomb 1900 but all the fluff and current time line off the game is 1941 WW2. Game is a big hit. People want time line to move to 2nd Gulf war which took place in 2003(i think) Bomb 1900 would sounds funny if the current codex is based around 2003 don't u think?

Chaplain of Chaos
04-09-2008, 04:36
When it comes down to it, so what. call the game Warhammer 41k. I'll still play it.

Colonel_Kreitz
04-09-2008, 05:22
With respect, I must agree, this is a rather silly notion. There are plenty of companies with "20th Century" in their names and you don't see them rushing to change their names around. The tag-line for Battletech was always about combat "In the 31st Century," but they've had no problem advancing well beyond that.

Warhammer 40K is just a name. If GW decided to advance the timeline, no prospective player would throw down the rulebook in disgust and confusion that the game is supposed to be set in the 40,000s and is set in the 41,000s. The reason the story has not advanced is that GW frankly doesn't WANT to advance it. It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" line of thought. The current setting has the Imperium on the brink of defeat, beset on all sides by powerful enemies.

If you advance the setting and show key worlds falling and the enemies advancing on Terra, then what? Well, suddenly, all of the fluff that people know and love is thrown into disarray. I've heard people say GW should really "shake up the fluff" by destroying a major chapter or character, or annihilating an Imperial Guard recruiting world. To what effect? Blood Angel players or people with Cadian armies won't be super-thrilled that all of a sudden their favorite army just got obliterated. Even if the armies were not made illegal to play with, the stigma of playing an army that no longer exists in the fluff would deter people from playing with them and would disgruntle existing players. I mean, think about it: you never see anyone playing Space Marine chapters that were wiped out, do you? Ever seen a Celestial Lions player? Didn't think so.

Anyway, my point in a nutshell is that the problem isn't with semantics, but with the simple fact that advancing the story in any meaningful way is a huge risk that will inevitably **** a lot of people off. Not real good game sense or business sense, however you cut it.

Gorbad Ironclaw
04-09-2008, 05:52
All of us old vet understand that the timeline and the name of the game is almost moot because we want GW to move forward.


We do? I personally don't care about GW moving the timeline forward or not. Actually, with some of the stuff that have come out I'd rather see them not, as there seem to be more and more stuff I don't like but *shrug*


Anyway, as have been said the name doesn't really mean anything. They could do whatever they wanted to the timeline and still keep the name. It's a name!

slaanghoul
04-09-2008, 10:13
With respect, I must agree, this is a rather silly notion. There are plenty of companies with "20th Century" in their names and you don't see them rushing to change their names around. The tag-line for Battletech was always about combat "In the 31st Century," but they've had no problem advancing well beyond that.

Warhammer 40K is just a name. If GW decided to advance the timeline, no prospective player would throw down the rulebook in disgust and confusion that the game is supposed to be set in the 40,000s and is set in the 41,000s. The reason the story has not advanced is that GW frankly doesn't WANT to advance it. It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" line of thought. The current setting has the Imperium on the brink of defeat, beset on all sides by powerful enemies.

If you advance the setting and show key worlds falling and the enemies advancing on Terra, then what? Well, suddenly, all of the fluff that people know and love is thrown into disarray. I've heard people say GW should really "shake up the fluff" by destroying a major chapter or character, or annihilating an Imperial Guard recruiting world. To what effect? Blood Angel players or people with Cadian armies won't be super-thrilled that all of a sudden their favorite army just got obliterated. Even if the armies were not made illegal to play with, the stigma of playing an army that no longer exists in the fluff would deter people from playing with them and would disgruntle existing players. I mean, think about it: you never see anyone playing Space Marine chapters that were wiped out, do you? Ever seen a Celestial Lions player? Didn't think so.

Anyway, my point in a nutshell is that the problem isn't with semantics, but with the simple fact that advancing the story in any meaningful way is a huge risk that will inevitably **** a lot of people off. Not real good game sense or business sense, however you cut it.

I think you might have missed the point. Don't bring any 20th century company name as an example because it is different subject. If you bring in 20th century fox in, then a fair compairson would be:

20th Century fox = Games Workshop. . . . .no big deal, a company name is just that. A name of a company.

Now a movie title and a game title/name... then it is the same.

Warhammer 40,000 (a game that sets in around 40,000 AD)

Movie: 10,000 BC. (a movie set in 10,000 BC.) It would be weird. . if they make part 2 and they move the time line to 2,000 BC about the same tribe and they are now being enslave by the Egyptian god Horus and still call the movie 10,000 BC part 2 The raise of Horus. Or even worst, 1200 AD in Aztec land with the same tribe escape Africa and became the Aztec. 10,000 BC part 3 - raise of the Aztec.

Battletech game is call Battletech. Not Battletech 31 century. The 31 century is as you stated, just a tag line.

If GW call it Chainsword w/ a tag line 40,000 then it would be no problem to move the time line.

I'm not here to say who lives or die in the future of 40k if they move the time line forward, that is a different discussion all together. Lets stay on topic.

I'm saying that the date is part of the game title, hence it would be weird to ever advance it beyond a few centuries. Most of us don't feel weird with a title 40k even if the game sets in 45K because it is fiction. But you have to ask why is the name 40k when it is now 45K or even 50K.


I do agree about the messing with characters and such, if they advance the timeline.... but the title of the game is also a problem.

Last of all, Warhammer 40,000 is not just a name. The name it self is so hugh and popular among table top wargame that it is the King of table top war games. I think if GW can go back to 1980s and just change the name to Chainsword or something, it would be much better. The tag line could still be 40,000. The chainsword is GW original as far as I know and that should have been their icon.

DapperAnarchist
04-09-2008, 10:22
... Why do you want it to advance? Is the writing for Games Worksop's big storyline so inventive and original and interesting that you MUST know what happens next? Seriously...

Whitehorn
04-09-2008, 10:33
I want it to be backwards, not forwards :)

slaanghoul
04-09-2008, 10:35
... Why do you want it to advance? Is the writing for Games Worksop's big storyline so inventive and original and interesting that you MUST know what happens next? Seriously...

yes! GW put everything in a cliff hanger mode and now I want to know what will happen to the Emperor. I want to know if Abbanddon will ever reach Terra.

Hrw-Amen
04-09-2008, 18:03
I'm sure that time has really moved on and that the Imperium is just deluding itself that it is really still only 40,999. I expect that in some deep dark mechanicus cellar somwhere on Mars there is a group of tech-adepts frantically trying to work out what effect, whether the entire galaxy's cogitators will crash when the millenium bug is released if they let it tick over to 41,000. Therefore they are probably just resetting it each day until they figure it out!

Come to think of it that may be what is wrong with the Golden Throne, the millenium bug has already got to it!!

Goruax
05-09-2008, 00:11
If people can change their name to 'Heywood Jablowme' then I think GW can keep the name of their most popular game system the same ;)

Zeigfryd
05-09-2008, 02:15
then why can we play the different games set before 40k

slaanghoul
05-09-2008, 04:59
then why can we play the different games set before 40k

I have no idea what u are trying to say.

][nquist0r
05-09-2008, 06:00
The Nids eat everyone then the Necrons eat the nids. Hit the reset button for another million years lol.

NashTrickster
05-09-2008, 17:14
You want the timeline to advance?
Well, we're in 2008, so the official timeline would advance to 41,008. That's a full nine years of new fluff...

Okay, no big deal, I'll write what happened during those nine years:

The end of the millenium failed to be the time of great changes that the whole supestitious galaxy expected it to be, people rejoiced and some heretics used this to plot the fall of entire worlds... Some of these plots succeeded, others appeared to have succeeded before the Astartes showed up and cleansed the world, yet others failed in face of the Imperial Guard's Meat Grinder or because of the heretics own stupidity.

The Black Crusade progressed a bit before being pushed back in some places. The forces of Chaos and the Imperium have reached a stalemate. Chaos doesn't have that much reserves left now that it has almost emptied the Eye of Terror for their "big one". The Imperium can't move more forces to oppose them if they don't want to loose ground on other fronts. If one of them could find new forces the situation might change, but that's not likley to happen anytime soon.

The 'nids are still advancing, tendrils of Leviathan still hit every other race from time to time. Consumming a world here, being crushed there. But in nine years no news of the big part of Leviathan which was diverted into Ork Space has reached us yet. The menace remains.

The Tau haven't made much progress, won a few worlds there, lost others there. The ethereals are starting to talk about moving into the "Fourth Sphere of Expansion" because a name change could do some good to the Troops morale...

The Eldar are still there, still a dying race, mostly minding its own business.

Necrons keep awakening everywhere, but in nine years they have only marginally expanded their sphere of influence.

Orks are still "Waaagh"-ing all around.

The Imperium still holds, by a thread.

In summary, everybody won some ground here and lost some there, all in all the situation is the same.

See you next year for another uneventful update.

DapperAnarchist
05-09-2008, 17:49
... Ok. I'm always more interested in what happens to MY characters than what happens to the stereotype-ridden "special characters". Whats more, can you imagine the chorus of whining across the Intartubes afterwards? "Oh no, it was fanboi-ism for *insert who got to lay the smack down*, they should have used *insert posters favourite race or conspiracy theory*"

I also support both Taerij and NashTrickster - the Galaxy is in stalemate really, and what I would prefer to see is the interesting stuff that happened in M.31-M39, all the odd little races and heresies and heroes. There is a full 9000+ years that is effectively empty.

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-09-2008, 18:23
yes! GW put everything in a cliff hanger mode and now I want to know what will happen to the Emperor. I want to know if Abbanddon will ever reach Terra.


Is that all? I can answer that right now.

Nothing will happen to the Emperor and Abbaddon will never get anywhere near Terra.

There, the mysteries of the future revealed. Even if GW were to advance there storyline, that's what would happen.

Warpcrafter
05-09-2008, 18:33
I couldn't give a rat's patooty about the fluff, I just want them to put out a rules set that isn't geared toward adolescent jackasses.

RCgothic
05-09-2008, 18:41
Seriously, what's the problem with it being 41, 42, even 49k? It's still in the 40ks, no big deal.

Imperialis_Dominatus
05-09-2008, 20:45
we want GW to move forward.

We do?


yes! GW put everything in a cliff hanger mode and now I want to know what will happen to the Emperor. I want to know if Abbanddon will ever reach Terra.

Check out the innumerable fanfics on the subject. Write one yourself. You could even read Gorbad's post a few up from mine. But don't expect a setting to turn into a story unless GW's sales really start tanking.

Gorbad Ironclaw
06-09-2008, 06:24
40k have always had lots of cliffhangers and foreshadowing lots of events. There are numerous references to a final apocalyptic battle scattered around in the books. But they are there to set a tone, give you a feel for the setting. It doesn't mean we are going to see Codex: End Times where all the races battle it out before the galaxy ends.

If you want a story out of it, you should read the novels. Or read the background of other games that are story based rather than setting based.

slaanghoul
06-09-2008, 10:08
Post 28 - 35 almost put me to sleep.

Shinzui
06-09-2008, 10:36
during the 1990s GW at many instances treated the background as a progressive state rather than stale setting based which resulted in the Eye of Terror campaign that was publicized as the 40k communities chance to effect the future events of 40k.

Though post EOT the lack of real representation of the outcome resulted in GW getting quite alot (or a bit more in case of some) of flack online which imo has resulted as part of the restructuring post LOTR bubble for GW to go back to the static background and focus more on the model/hobby side which actually makes them the money, which is a fine idea at this time but in the future I hope they go back to the more interesting evolving universe that is was during late 3rd edition.

Tokamak
06-09-2008, 11:18
If GW call it Chainsword w/ a tag line 40,000 then it would be no problem to move the time line.

'Chainsword' sounds pretty cool as a Sci-fi tabletop game actually. Nice.

Iracundus
06-09-2008, 11:42
during the 1990s GW at many instances treated the background as a progressive state rather than stale setting based which resulted in the Eye of Terror campaign that was publicized as the 40k communities chance to effect the future events of 40k.

Though post EOT the lack of real representation of the outcome resulted in GW getting quite alot (or a bit more in case of some) of flack online which imo has resulted as part of the restructuring post LOTR bubble for GW to go back to the static background and focus more on the model/hobby side which actually makes them the money, which is a fine idea at this time but in the future I hope they go back to the more interesting evolving universe that is was during late 3rd edition.

The fact gradual change worked before should show GW it can work again. Even when the timeline was advancing as it was during 1990's, details were changing but ultimately the overall status quo was still there. Background progression and change doesn't mean suddenly overturning everything.

J-rock
06-09-2008, 13:00
I have been playing this game since 1st edition. I don't know why this needs to be continually repeated, but here goes:

WH40k is a setting, not a story!

That is one of the reasons why WH40k is so popular. It's like someone has created this playground full of toys and then invites us to play in it.

Expanding 40k isn't about extending the timeline, but about adding scope to the setting.

Master Stark
06-09-2008, 13:51
the date is part of the game title, hence it would be weird to ever advance it beyond a few centuries.

Why would that be weird?

And why would GW want to advance the timeline so much?

Master Stark
06-09-2008, 13:58
I couldn't give a rat's patooty about the fluff, I just want them to put out a rules set that isn't geared toward adolescent jackasses.

:eyebrows:

So you don't care about the fluff, and apparently hate the rules...

Why punish yourself by playing at all?

DapperAnarchist
06-09-2008, 14:03
I do want more stuff. I want sourcebooks, novels, add-ons, Codices, stuff for the SG games, campaign books, everything. I don't see that we in anyway need to advance beyond 999 years after the date in the game title. Actually, you know what is barely mentioned? the first 500 years of the 41st Millenium. I want more of that! The "Time Of Ending" timeline is good though...

Oh, and that was a rather pointless and rude response, slaanghoul.

Iracundus
06-09-2008, 14:51
The reason why gradually advancing the timeline is ultimately good is because a significant number of races did not exist or become active until recently.

The Tyranids only appeared on the scene in the past few centuries, and the same goes for the Tau. The Necrons are still in the process of awakening, and even if one accepts the Deceiver as having awoken sometime circa 34th millenium, the Necron forces as a whole were still the stuff of small raids and ghost stories until again the last century or decade. The Ordo Hereticus and SoB did not exist prior to the Age of Apostacy.

Hrw-Amen
06-09-2008, 15:30
Although it is true that W40K is a setting there is no reason why that setting cannot be continually evolved. It does not have to be by centuries at a time, just a year or two here and there would be enough to keep it going. Afterall the world we live in a setting, but time does not stand still.

Part of what makes the setting of W40K so inviting and interesting is the depth of background and history in which it is set. Seeing that evolve gradually over time, as long as it is done properly and is sensitive to the nature of the game / setting, will only help keep people interested. At leats in my opinion.

dreameater
06-09-2008, 18:53
I think it's fine I mean the when you see graffeti you see 2K and how many of you call it 40K, who calls it warhammer 40,000 come on think of it

Rhamiel
06-09-2008, 19:28
i just want to add my opinion
i was talk to my friend and we were talking about the GW prices going up
and then he said why are the putting them up
i said global econamy cause if they didn't they would go bust and this would happen
Gw would end the Universe by:
Bringing all the (loyal primachs) back including Russ with the Seed of Life then the Emp would be reserected who would then control the seed and bring back all of the dead (loyal) primachs back alive as well as all of the dead marines.
He would then find out about the universe in trouble
and send this new marines out to all of the planets and also all of the Guard he resserected as well
then he would take his custodians and grey knights in to the warp to go and kill the traitors (primachs).
At the same time as all of this.
A load of demons would come out next to the thorne which the emp kills
all of the 'rons awake killing everything
all of the nids come into the galaxy feeding on everything
the eldar go and hide in the webway but meet the dark eldar and then a huge battle ensues in the Webway
the Void Dragon Outsider and the other 2 relese their entire power.
orks join into 1 big Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
choas comes and meets the emp head on with demons and the lot.
the tau start the 4th expansion and find out about the warp which scares them to hell and back at which point with draw to T'au and shelter from all the death!!!!

so thats what i think will happen it's kinda not stictly relavent but i thought i might just squeeze in i dunno

Rhamiel

ps. to add to something about when GW go bust:
The Emperor would give Robute a huge slap of godly power for disbanding the legions. :D

DapperAnarchist
06-09-2008, 20:26
That might be what they'd do, but they would be panned for being cowardly with their story, doing the obvious thing, and using that old Trope of "everything happens at once! AHHHH!". Course, if they did anything else, they would be panned for Fanboi-ism, or cheapness by having a cop out.

Rhamiel
06-09-2008, 20:37
spoil sport

Rhamiel

Templar Ben
07-09-2008, 02:35
I think you might have missed the point. Don't bring any 20th century company name as an example because it is different subject. If you bring in 20th century fox in, then a fair compairson would be:

20th Century fox = Games Workshop. . . . .no big deal, a company name is just that. A name of a company.

Now a movie title and a game title/name... then it is the same.

Warhammer 40,000 (a game that sets in around 40,000 AD)

Movie: 10,000 BC. (a movie set in 10,000 BC.) It would be weird. . if they make part 2 and they move the time line to 2,000 BC about the same tribe and they are now being enslave by the Egyptian god Horus and still call the movie 10,000 BC part 2 The raise of Horus. Or even worst, 1200 AD in Aztec land with the same tribe escape Africa and became the Aztec. 10,000 BC part 3 - raise of the Aztec.

Battletech game is call Battletech. Not Battletech 31 century. The 31 century is as you stated, just a tag line.

If GW call it Chainsword w/ a tag line 40,000 then it would be no problem to move the time line.

I'm not here to say who lives or die in the future of 40k if they move the time line forward, that is a different discussion all together. Lets stay on topic.

I'm saying that the date is part of the game title, hence it would be weird to ever advance it beyond a few centuries. Most of us don't feel weird with a title 40k even if the game sets in 45K because it is fiction. But you have to ask why is the name 40k when it is now 45K or even 50K.


I do agree about the messing with characters and such, if they advance the timeline.... but the title of the game is also a problem.

Last of all, Warhammer 40,000 is not just a name. The name it self is so hugh and popular among table top wargame that it is the King of table top war games. I think if GW can go back to 1980s and just change the name to Chainsword or something, it would be much better. The tag line could still be 40,000. The chainsword is GW original as far as I know and that should have been their icon.

Wow. The king really? Hmm. That aside it is obvious that they didn't stop at 40,000 so they could simply say that is when it begins. As in they only support 40,000 forward and they will not release models for the heresy or what not.

Funny that you think branding is so important for one line and not for a better known company.


You want the timeline to advance?
Well, we're in 2008, so the official timeline would advance to 41,008. That's a full nine years of new fluff...

Okay, no big deal, I'll write what happened during those nine years:

The end of the millenium failed to be the time of great changes that the whole supestitious galaxy expected it to be, people rejoiced and some heretics used this to plot the fall of entire worlds... Some of these plots succeeded, others appeared to have succeeded before the Astartes showed up and cleansed the world, yet others failed in face of the Imperial Guard's Meat Grinder or because of the heretics own stupidity.

The Black Crusade progressed a bit before being pushed back in some places. The forces of Chaos and the Imperium have reached a stalemate. Chaos doesn't have that much reserves left now that it has almost emptied the Eye of Terror for their "big one". The Imperium can't move more forces to oppose them if they don't want to loose ground on other fronts. If one of them could find new forces the situation might change, but that's not likley to happen anytime soon.

The 'nids are still advancing, tendrils of Leviathan still hit every other race from time to time. Consumming a world here, being crushed there. But in nine years no news of the big part of Leviathan which was diverted into Ork Space has reached us yet. The menace remains.

The Tau haven't made much progress, won a few worlds there, lost others there. The ethereals are starting to talk about moving into the "Fourth Sphere of Expansion" because a name change could do some good to the Troops morale...

The Eldar are still there, still a dying race, mostly minding its own business.

Necrons keep awakening everywhere, but in nine years they have only marginally expanded their sphere of influence.

Orks are still "Waaagh"-ing all around.

The Imperium still holds, by a thread.

In summary, everybody won some ground here and lost some there, all in all the situation is the same.

See you next year for another uneventful update.

Nothing shattering needs to happen. Look at the Earth in the last 10 years. Yeah there were some coordinated terrorist attacks in a number of Western Countries and a couple of small wars but what is really different? Not to get all P&R but look at some of the people that are rather important now and think about where they were 10 years ago. Seems odd that things are the way they are but it does make sense because you saw them unfold. That is what I would like to see, BattleTech style slow revealing of some change. Instead we are going to have a shoehorned in Land Raider variant that suddenly all chapters but 4 field. We learn that "oh yeah, our Techmarines do have these handy little cannons". We see that scouts can scout but in a speeder.

It is not as much shoehorning as the Necrons but it is not so far either. Instead of a sudden lurch where everything gets crammed in, they could drop hints and over time it comes to be understood that it is going to be in place.

But hey, GW's setting they can do whatever they want with it.


I couldn't give a rat's patooty about the fluff, I just want them to put out a rules set that isn't geared toward adolescent jackasses.

That would be against the current design philosophy.


I have been playing this game since 1st edition. I don't know why this needs to be continually repeated, but here goes:

WH40k is a setting, not a story!

That is one of the reasons why WH40k is so popular. It's like someone has created this playground full of toys and then invites us to play in it.

Expanding 40k isn't about extending the timeline, but about adding scope to the setting.

A setting doesn't have to be dead either. A game can have WW2 as a setting but that doesn't mean that it should be locked in Aug. 3 1943. That is a great way to make it seem like a cardboard backdrop. Why not let the setting breathe.

Gorbad Ironclaw
08-09-2008, 14:59
The problem with letting the 'setting breathe' is that most people who advocate change seems to want dramatic changes to prove something happens. GW does do the small change and adding various bit of information here and there, but that isn't seen as being enough.

Could you do more with the storyline? Certainly, but then you have to ask the question, what storyline? Because there really isn't any central story to tell. Unlike PP who actually have a more or less unified storyline they can advance, there isn't any in 40k. There is dozens of minor storylines and the races are all off doing different things. They might interact, but Orks burning down a forgeworld wouldn't mean anything to Dark Elders, or Necrons etc. Where as Eldars desperatly trying to kill a Tomb World wouldn't mean anything to anyone else either.

slaanghoul
09-09-2008, 13:19
The problem with letting the 'setting breathe' is that most people who advocate change seems to want dramatic changes to prove something happens. GW does do the small change and adding various bit of information here and there, but that isn't seen as being enough.

Could you do more with the storyline? Certainly, but then you have to ask the question, what storyline? Because there really isn't any central story to tell. Unlike PP who actually have a more or less unified storyline they can advance, there isn't any in 40k. There is dozens of minor storylines and the races are all off doing different things. They might interact, but Orks burning down a forgeworld wouldn't mean anything to Dark Elders, or Necrons etc. Where as Eldars desperatly trying to kill a Tomb World wouldn't mean anything to anyone else either.

What is PP?

I think 40K is like Marvel universe comic. There are so many characters but many of them do not inter act with one another, but most of them are in the same universe. Example: Spiderman who is in NY city (last I've heard) got all kinds of adventures and such, then you have The Silver Surfer who's adventure are all over the galaxy and rarely earth or even NY city. They all have their own comic book and their own story. If Silver Surfer earth's is destroyed, then X-man, spiderman, the Hulk are more than likely dead with it unless they escape earth.

Yes 40K has the main stories about Imperial of man and many other "side" story of Eldar and Orks, but each species is in its own way. .. its own comic book. They all are moving together in the same timeline and one way or another their story effect one another in the grand scale of the 40K universe.

I really hope GW do move the story forward, kill off a few special characters and make some new one is ok by me. It's just part of the story. In WHFB, many special characters are dead. I don't see why 40K can't do the same thing. Infact, GW made that model in a few poses and rules such as younger, a bit older, and great champion of light. I forgot his name, he is the guy with the hammer and Archon kicked his butt and I think Skaven assassin killed him in the end.

horizon
09-09-2008, 13:33
...but in 999m41 the Tau take Taros. This campaign sees the introduction of a whole new space fleet for the Tau. Now I (and others) like those ships and attach our own heroes to them. But we do not have a history to play in we have only 999....

.... of course....when advancing into 42.... does it really matter. I guess not.

Sir_Turalyon
09-09-2008, 14:17
GW already tried to advance WFB storyline with Storm of Chaos, creating storyline that satisfies all players and reflects results of world-wide campaign. It ended as fiasco that satisfied no-one, and currently WFB armybooks timelines stretch only until just before Storm of Chaos, trying to forget thing ever happened, or at least details of it. Perhaps when majority of players will no longer remember campaign GW will retconn it's effects into new, interesting storyline - but they need to find genuinely interesting storyline first.

Same happens to 40k - it's a setting as much as storyline, and can't be changed by randomly adding and removing elements. Timeline change should move game from one interesting setting to another, rather then simply eroding existing setting. If GW wanted to advance the timeline, they'll need to reinvent the galaxy first - not only giving interesting events, but saying what world looks like after it. Without thinking about consequences first, we have great campaigns like Medusa V or Eye of Terror that lack interesting conclusions, and GW is not stupid enough to tear apart their game seting for no reason.

Other problem with advancing stryline is, GW already made a lot of foreshadowind of what will happen when the DoomsDay(TM) comes, and will have to eighter futfill them, work around them or ignore them and fans who would like to see them happen. Do we really want to see Lion waking up to redefine Dark Angels, Leman Russ returning to his chapter on head of huge column of Squats and beer tanks, Illuminati feeding Sensei to Emperor before Abbadon makes it to Terra, Cypher meeting Emperor before Illuminati make it to Terra, Phoenix Lords ganging up on eighter Abaddon or C'tan? Do we want to see all of this at once? Is there a part that no one would want to see (I love Illuminati part and would hate them not to make apperance in final days )?

GW has long since been telling us 40k setting is dieing, and feeding us bits of extraordinary things that are about to happen when it finally dies. It will make advancing story inconvinient, for at least two reasons. First, whatever they do, most players will be unhappy for it. Number of parties racing to Terra to "meet" Emperor on Doomsday is alone bound to cause unhappiness - whomever gets there first, Most people will want it to be someone else.

Second reason is, events that are just about to transpire are so magnificent GW writers probably won't be able to describe them properly. Foreshadowing awe-inspiring events is one thing; describing them in way that actualy inspires awe of readers is much harder, and foreshadowing great events only to give them medicore, by-the-book description is waste of potential.

slaanghoul
09-09-2008, 17:04
GW already tried to advance WFB storyline with Storm of Chaos, creating storyline that satisfies all players and reflects results of world-wide campaign. It ended as fiasco that satisfied no-one, and currently WFB armybooks timelines stretch only until just before Storm of Chaos, trying to forget thing ever happened, or at least details of it. Perhaps when majority of players will no longer remember campaign GW will retconn it's effects into new, interesting storyline - but they need to find genuinely interesting storyline first.

Same happens to 40k - it's a setting as much as storyline, and can't be changed by randomly adding and removing elements. Timeline change should move game from one interesting setting to another, rather then simply eroding existing setting. If GW wanted to advance the timeline, they'll need to reinvent the galaxy first - not only giving interesting events, but saying what world looks like after it. Without thinking about consequences first, we have great campaigns like Medusa V or Eye of Terror that lack interesting conclusions, and GW is not stupid enough to tear apart their game seting for no reason.

Other problem with advancing stryline is, GW already made a lot of foreshadowind of what will happen when the DoomsDay(TM) comes, and will have to eighter futfill them, work around them or ignore them and fans who would like to see them happen. Do we really want to see Lion waking up to redefine Dark Angels, Leman Russ returning to his chapter on head of huge column of Squats and beer tanks, Illuminati feeding Sensei to Emperor before Abbadon makes it to Terra, Cypher meeting Emperor before Illuminati make it to Terra, Phoenix Lords ganging up on eighter Abaddon or C'tan? Do we want to see all of this at once? Is there a part that no one would want to see (I love Illuminati part and would hate them not to make apperance in final days )?

GW has long since been telling us 40k setting is dieing, and feeding us bits of extraordinary things that are about to happen when it finally dies. It will make advancing story inconvinient, for at least two reasons. First, whatever they do, most players will be unhappy for it. Number of parties racing to Terra to "meet" Emperor on Doomsday is alone bound to cause unhappiness - whomever gets there first, Most people will want it to be someone else.

Second reason is, events that are just about to transpire are so magnificent GW writers probably won't be able to describe them properly. Foreshadowing awe-inspiring events is one thing; describing them in way that actualy inspires awe of readers is much harder, and foreshadowing great events only to give them medicore, by-the-book description is waste of potential.

you have made and excellent point and it got me thinking. . ..

Almost all the interesting event and characters or even army list never have a bad ending. GW always tell us how everything is bleak and such, but the bleakness belongs to man. . not C'tan or Orks as an example. As it stands right now I think Imperial is the most powerful force in the galaxy on the map. However, it seems like man is in a decline and fast because there are too many enemies at all front.

Back to my "bad ending". GW never end anything. . . GW just stop and change the whole history or just make it all vanish away. What I mean by this? Well from your post, Squats and Sensei just kind of vanish away. GW didn't put an end to them. GW didn't say that necrons or a Super nova wipe out Squats or all of Sensei were founded and killed by a mysterious hunter. Nope GW just stop the fluff about them and left us to think that it never existed. I would rather have GW "killed" off anything that Gw don't want it around anymore.

Would people be upset, if their army/species/race or special characters were killed off? You bet, but if Gw killed them off. . . it would at least be better than just "vanish" away. At least there would be an end.

I don't like Squat and I'm glade they are gone, but it would have been much better if they were killed off. i know it suck for Squat players, but wouldn't it is better if your army list were to die in glory than just vanish? Either way, your army is going off the shelf and fluff. . . might as well go in a blaze of glory.

I have many armies and one of the is Dark Eldar. If GW ever wish to stop support for that army or wish they never existed in 40k universe. . . I want GW to killed my DE. Let them go in a big bang. This way at least I can play my army and claim that they are the only one left in the universe or this battle happens before the "big bang". Or if i don't ever play them .. . I can claim that this was an army once before they all die off.

Paganite
10-09-2008, 23:58
I don't see why anyone would want any progression.

I like it that GW have created a world then told us to go play in it. They give us a rule set for those games and then said we can increase the possibilities by creating our own campaigns involving our own characters and armies, and we can also play with making our own rules and modifying the game to suit particular themes.

Set yourself up in a sector, give it a name and then if you have a good group create a reason for them all to be fighting. And at the end of it you have your own story. The galaxy is so big that GW can't say, and will not say that your fight never happened. Just don't have it taking place on Terra.

Every time GW gives us more details they reduce the possibility space of the game, restricting the ways we might choose to play it theme wise. I would rather they stay with the vague ideas they have and only add more vague ideas rather than moving onto more clear information.

A good way would be to make the dating a bit less definite. You have to remember that the galaxy is a big place so information travels slowly and so entire crusades can happen 300 years ago before news of its success or defeat reaches Terra. GW should play with this, make the whole world much less certain and full of contradictory tales. Entire planets are lost in rounding errors and some sectors are only visited by those in contact with Terra every 300 years or so. A whole new fleet could have attacked via the galactic north and wiped out entire Ork empires and some Chapter's homeworld and Terra won't know for 500 years or so.

This is the scale we are playing with, so don't ask for definite story lines, don't ask for the whole world to advance. Just create your own fun games and scenarios within the limited outlines GW gives us.