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crazywhiteboydance
04-09-2008, 15:45
Just thought I'd post this list here to see what you guys think:

Herald of Nurgle: 400
Level 1, Noxious Vapours, Slime Trail, Icon of Chaos Glory, Palanquin

Herald of Nurgle: 265
Level 1, Noxious Vapours, Nurgles Rot, Palanquin

Epidemius: 135

Skulltaker: 150

18x Plaguebearers: 265
Champion, Standard Bearer, Icon of Enternal Virulence

10x Horrors: 120

10x Horrors: 120

7x Nurgling Bases: 245

3x Beasts of Nurgle: 300

All characters are in the plaguebearer unit

Much love

Crazywhiteboydance

yoshimo
04-09-2008, 20:08
1200 in 1 unit?

crazywhiteboydance
05-09-2008, 07:43
Yep, nothing else to say?

fubukii
05-09-2008, 14:11
you dont have enoug nurgle models to justify using epid.

Make the nurglins a little smaler or split into 2 units

split the beasts into 2 units.

Drop skulltaker he isnt worth taking on foot.

Add more plague bearers.

crazywhiteboydance
05-09-2008, 15:02
I beg to differ on the Epi subject I've tried this a few times & only once did I not hit the top end of the tally.

I could add more PB's however that would require dropping the horrors & leaving the force well open to magical assault.

Skulltaker does very well in protecting the BSB not to mention providing this rather nasty nurgle block with magic resistance 2.

The nurglings depend on my mood on the day as to whether its one or two units, but they always perform well as one unit and have taken entire flanks by themselves.

Is there a reasoning to making the beasts two units?

Archon.42
05-09-2008, 15:13
i also have to disagree with you fubukii,
i have to admit i have faced this list
and i still havent found a way to crack it open
but i will;)
.42

fubukii
05-09-2008, 15:34
do you run the plaguebearer unit 7 wide?

I meant add more plaguebearers to the big uber unit not more choices of bearers, if you take 10 man units horrors are the way to go.

as for a way to crack this egg, he has 6 dd, not a poor defense but not the best, Hit his unit with pit of shades :) and watch them die in droves ( ive done this with my kairos vs nurgle players before :)) also flaming spells and attacks do well such as flames of phoenix or firewall.

as for the splitting up of the beasts more units means you can see where your enemy deploys before you have your whole force on the table, in addition there really isnt a negative to running them in 2 units as opposed to one.

its a tough nut to crack but with the right tools (pit of shades) you can crack the nut turn 2 or 3 and end the game quickly.

blackjack
05-09-2008, 15:57
Wow. I don't think that list needs any more help... It's pretty darn nasty.

If I were playing my cav heavy daemon army against it I would do my best to ignore that big block and conentrate on killing everything around it.

Weemo
08-09-2008, 07:36
I would approuch this army in the same way i would approach dwarfs, kill all of the supporting units, artillery ect. then run circles round the big units until i get combo flank/rear charges and finish them off.

So i would take out skulltaker with any artillery i may have, (one bolt thrower = bye bye skulltaker) destroy the horrors asap (-2 dd) then blast away with as many flaming spells i can at the nurgle stuff. If i target the nurglings with any kind of ranked infantry they will die, and i can hit the beasts with big stuff or just ignore them. Then i should have most of my army left to wreak some serious havoc amongst the plaguebearers, any flank or rear charge will probably finish them.

Seems like a pretty weak list to be honest, your rellying on the big unit of PB's and heradls ect to win the game, they are the perfect anvil (high toughness, good saves, not going anywhere) but you have no hammers (maybe skulltaker :eyebrows:) to hit these units. I would get rud of epidemius, and a herlad of nurgle, bump the unit of to 20 so that they can have 6x4 with the herald remaining, get a unit of bloodletters for skulltaker and already your list is looking better.

crazywhiteboydance
08-09-2008, 08:55
The supporting units are not really concern other than I se them to get the tally going, all i need for the army to work is the 4+ poison.

I'd love to see how your combined flank & rear charges came off as the last guy to do this lost combat by 24.

Also how do you get your bolthrowers to hit characters inside units? Also I think you are drastically under estimating nurglings. It wont be too easy to ignore the beast unit either remeber they can march 12" a turn.

As no hammers by the time the main unit gets to you the tally will be sufficiently high enough to hit you with 30+ attacks auto wounding on 4's.

yoshimo
08-09-2008, 10:35
i'd just throw 2 units of 6 flamers at the plaguebearers can kill on average 8 a turn from long range and 10 from short range (not including stand and shoot) and use the rest of my 1580 odd points to keep your horror/beast/nurgling remnants off my flamers.
I think other lists would be able to come up with similar solutions if they are in any way good at maths. Plaguebearer blocks are REALLY strong but to depend on them in such an all-or-nothing manner is madness.

Archon.42
08-09-2008, 13:12
no offence to you guys, but you really are underestimating the block. i was said player that lost combat by 24, this was whilst being in combat with it on all sides with ghouls, 4 combat vamps inc an uber killy lord. and i didnt exactly roll bad either
it is the toughest nut to crack i have come up against yet.
.42

Benigno (WE)
08-09-2008, 13:19
I would avoid de big plague bearers block, with the other 800 points and the table points I am done.

yoshimo
08-09-2008, 14:58
no offence to you guys, but you really are underestimating the block. i was said player that lost combat by 24, this was whilst being in combat with it on all sides with ghouls, 4 combat vamps inc an uber killy lord. and i didnt exactly roll bad either
it is the toughest nut to crack i have come up against yet.
.42

yes, this is a tough list to beat in H2H, but you really don't need to.
It's slow enough and valuable enough that it can be killed at range or avoided. there's enough stuff out there with flaming attacks to handle 22 models with Regen worth 1200 VP's +

as I illustrated with my last post, if you were fielding 2 units of 6 flamers (420 points) then on average you would burn off literally the entire unit of plaguebearers in the first 2 rounds of shooting, leaving 4 exposed and alone characters.

if you had fielded just 1 unit of flamers then you're talking about 4 turns to do the same thing (or 3 + 1 charge reaction)

and this is just one example of concentrated flaming attacks available to 1 army in the game. Other armies have their own flavors of flame as well.

There's no doubting that plaguebearer blocks are tough but if you give someone enough incentive to destroy it they will find a way. 1200 vp's would be more than enough incentive for most players

fubukii
08-09-2008, 16:32
yes it would also not be hard to avoid the unit, with movement 4 they arent the fastest unit out there. Some good old march blocking and charge redirecting will keep them out of the fight for a good amount of time. Also as stated before there are plenty of ways to kill them, minus charging themn from the front where there is 4 characters.

Flamers, flame cannon, salamanders, flames of phoenix, Pit of shades (doesnt care if your 400 pt bsb is in the unit dies on a 3+) Yes the unit has mr 2 but its not impossible for a magic heavy army to get spells off vs that. THe masque is also amazing at slowing down the unit and would fulfil the role of the march blocker, and minus d3 off their movement (on average making them move 2inches a turn) Thats what i would do, kill the rest of the stuff then concentrate all my magic and shoot at them.


It is a 1 trick pony list,yes if i keep charging the super uber unit of death im gonna get managled, but once you realize you cant beat it and find ways to avoid it (which isnt hard to avoid 1 unit) you will be playing a handicap match vs my army with only 800 pts of models ;)

Weemo
08-09-2008, 18:31
lose combat by 24? you must be a tactical genius :rolleyes:

which unit is skulltaker in may i ask? seeing as he cant join any of the units in your list i somehow doubt his chances against a bolt thrower

and for the rest, your support units will just die, simple as

your plaguebearer unit isnt uber hard to be honest, anyone with half a brain will kill off most of the pb's with flaming attacks leaving you with few ranks and few models for that ,matter if i spent 1200 points on lets say chaos knights with a lord and all the chas warriors in the world, with a flank charge and its by by pb's, or bloodknights and anything else i can raise into, i aint goin nowhere and im sure as hell beating the crap out of those pb's, or if im not going to engage you, 1200pts worth of dwarf or empire shooting will have no problem with them, pretty much any army has enough magic, shooting or combat prowess to completely wreak your unit

i'd love to see you take this list to GT's

yoshimo
08-09-2008, 18:40
any of the special character heros in the new daemons book can join any foot troop units as they dont have the locus of X special rule (page 2 top left on errata). For those people who are still unsure about the ambiguous rules in this frankly rushed and ill thought book (the FAQ section for this army is about 3 times longer than any other army) please look at:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/assets/wh/2008_Daemons_FAQ.pdf

Archon.42
08-09-2008, 19:15
@yoshimo: yes shooting them would have been a viable tactic with all of those flamers that i can get in a vampire army....oh wait..

@weemo:if you read my other post, i engaged the unit on all sides with units and killy characters...and if those random number generators we called dice were not in my favour that round of combat then you are right with your sarcastic comment. so i have taken offence from your post because you didnt see the game and have assumed just because i lost by such a large amount i must somewhat tactically inept...so in short, keep your sarcastic comments to yourself

.42

Gokamok
08-09-2008, 19:49
I'd agree that this army suffers from the same problem as most other "all eggs in one basket" armies: IF your opponent can avoid the big block o' doom, then you're largely screwed;)

What I'm wondering is how you keep your opponents from destroying the support units, and then just dancing in circles around your PB unit?

Also, it seems to me that the unit is somewhat vulnerable to flank/rear charges from heavily armored units, especially if these units are ItP. I could imagine a unit of Blood/Chosen/Grail Knights holding your big block up forever.

Ozorik
08-09-2008, 19:50
Well in that case just try to keep the plaguebearers occupied with a unit of risen zombies each turn while you polish off the rest of his army.

Just dont make contact with anything you want to keep.

Gokamok
08-09-2008, 19:56
Well in that case just try to keep the plaguebearers occupied with a unit of risen zombies each turn while you polish off the rest of his army.

Just dont make contact with anything you want to keep.

Well, in the case Archon.42 describes (without knowing the exact forces present) 4 units of ghouls with 4 combat vampires should produce about 8 kills and a total CR of about 17 (assuming +3 ranks, outnumber, BSB, walking death), which I guess would be enough to win combat? Losing by 24 just sounds like completely insane rolling from the PBs:D

Oh, and you're gonna need one hell of a big zombie unit to not crumble away in every round of combat...

Archon.42
08-09-2008, 20:21
exactly my thought gokamok
any unit of raised zombies would have to number in the 60's to have to survive even one round with enough left to hold

and yeh you are right about the rolling of the PB and mine wasnt exactly shabby either
.42

Ozorik
08-09-2008, 20:50
It entirely depends on where you raise them, if you flank with them you would need less than 20 to have a good chance of surviving into the next turn. Hitting the block head on (with anything) is sheer stupidity.

Failing that just raise screens in front of more important units in danger of being charged.

As long as you keep out of unwanted combat with this unit you will almost certainly win.

Archon.42
08-09-2008, 22:27
yes you can raise screens etc
but basically ignoring it will not win you the game
you have to kill 800 points worth of stuff which crzywhiteboydance keeps near to the anvil
and if you managed to kill that 800 points without taking any caualties i'd be impressedi am not however saying it is unbeatable
im just saying, the vampire list i used against it struggled to kill the anvil
the other 800 points were not a problem
and feeding it zombie units is just giving away vps
.42

Ozorik
08-09-2008, 23:47
You wont get a massacre but on balance you should win.

You will only need a couple of zombie screens really so that 100 VPs, not a huge loss.

Weemo
09-09-2008, 07:11
@weemo:if you read my other post, i engaged the unit on all sides with units and killy characters...and if those random number generators we called dice were not in my favour that round of combat then you are right with your sarcastic comment. so i have taken offence from your post because you didnt see the game and have assumed just because i lost by such a large amount i must somewhat tactically inept...so in short, keep your sarcastic comments to yourself

.42


firstly, to have lost by 24, you must have had really bad rolling (im guessing not by the sounds of things) or been a noob to charge 4 units of ghouls at them, skeletons or grave guard would have fared better. Ghouls are soft and squishy, yeah they have poisened attacks but so do the pb's in addition by engaging them on all sides you give the pb's the most amount of possible attacks and not even negating ranks (im sure anyone could have guessed one of those heralds would have slime trail) so first off your charging aggainst a fully ranked unit which you cant negate, your giving them the most amount of possible attacks (say they were 6 wide 5 deep) 9 attacks into your flanking and rearcharging ghouls, and in total 27 from the front? yes you have your vampires which would probably kill a few but even then they have regen against you 0 flaming attacks. so in essense:

- you charge a fully ranked unit on all sides even though you cant break ranks

- in doing this you give your opponent the most amount of possible attacks

- your static combat (obviously a rough estimate) 0 for flank and rear, outnumber and in total 3 ranks? it may have been different of course but you have static combat 4, whilst he has static combat 5, so your relying on kills to win.

- you have lets say 5 ghouls and a vamp in each flank, rear or front (bar one)
with a champ thats 44 attacks, not bad except for when your hitting on fours (22 miss on average) and cause 7 poisened, then out of those 15 other hits you cause 5 wounds, 13 wounds in all from ghouls, then 4 of which are saved by wards and then 4/5 are saved by regen, all in all 4 dead plaguebearers.

-then the vamps would have what about 10-12 attacks? lets say 12, 6 hit and if they are on avaerage s6, 5 wounds, 1/2 are saved by ward and then another 2 by regen all in all another 2 wounds.

- so your combat res is now 10

- he starts off with 5

- he needs to kill 6 models to beat you, (my guess would be he killed quite a lot with a total of 30 varying strength and poisened attacks)

- 30 attacks, 5 dead from poisened, 10-15 hits (heralds are higher ws) average s4 so 7 wounds, 13 dead in total, they win combat by 8.

so on average you would lose combat by 8

so i think i'l keep my sarcastic comments

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 08:02
You see this is the problem with math hammer is any numpty that can figure out 1+1 = 2 seems to think he's Sun Tzu. While it's perfectly okay to do the math in an attempt to figure out what could happen you'll often find out that that is not the case.

Firstly .42's recall of the event is slightly off, the majority of his units in the combat were skellies with only the one being ghouls. Now, this is where things get messy. The reason this list works, and bloody well, is that it removes a series of variables from the equation. Auto wounding on 4's & getting to double all those poison wounds for combat res is where the sting in the tail is.

With regards to flaming attacks yeah it puts the hurt on but all you are doing is negating one of the two saves they already have & the important thing is that unless you are wielding the blade of realities they are still going to get a save no matter what you hit them with.

To be honest on paper this list shouldnt work but since I have like 17 years experience of playing fantasy I like to think that perhaps the way I play may have something to do with the outcomes of my games.

I like discussion so lets keep things friendly here eh lads, as for Weemo if your ever in Portsmouth email me & we can meet up for a game. I get the feeling it could be an interesting match.

isidril93
09-09-2008, 08:18
i have 2 words:ouch (huh?)

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 08:20
Do you not find that running such a wieghted list is dull? I would use this list once for novelties sake and then go back to more enjoyable, balanced armies.

Flaming attacks may only negate one fo your saves but its your best one. As you have 18 plaguebearers you would only need to suffer, on average, 24 flaming wounds to wipe out the unit.

A Dwarf army with a couple of bolt throwers, cannon and grudgethrower all with variations of Ro burning would make short work of this unit (one good grudge thrower hit alone would decimate the unit) and there ist a lot that you could do to stop it, you would have a hard enough time getting rid of the march blocking gyro.

Im in portsmouth in November...:)

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 08:30
That is exactly what this was & massacred all but one army that I played over the course of a weekend. To be honest next time that I think of list while on the loo at work I'm gonna avoid using it.

I knew that this list would spark a debate about how it doesn't work, that's why I posted it here. The fact of the matter is that it works perhaps a lot better than it should & for that reason this list will rarely see the light of day as I like my opponent to have as much fun as I am.

That said I have been challenged to 6k games this weekend and may have to run this particular unit as I know how much it will irritate my opponent (he was one of the massacres, a dwarf gunline with more burning runes than you could shake a burning stick at! & his supercombat unit ended up with a negative combat res in the 30's!)

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 08:37
How did he fail to melt all your plague bearers? Bolt throwers alone wont do enough damage of course and the cannon is mainly there to character snipe so maybe he simply didnt have sufficent firepower?

He should bring a flamecannon for his next game :)

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 08:42
I was as suprised as you, believe me :S I think that he's actually gone and purchased himself a flamecannon since our last encounter, hahaha. Bet you can't guess my priority target for this next game!

I'm also letting him use the dwarf triple (WD, Bugman & Gotrek) so it could be interesting, but I'll be damned if that thing is going anywhere near something important.

yoshimo
09-09-2008, 09:35
@yoshimo: yes shooting them would have been a viable tactic with all of those flamers that i can get in a vampire army....oh wait..

I did mention that was just one approach based on my army at the moment,
I also mentioned that each army has it's own method of doing the same, for example taking:

A vampire lord with forbidden lore, master of the black art, a balefire spike and rod of flaming death
3 * vampires with forbidden lore and 2 * power stone

(guess what lore you pick)

If you can't cook a unit of plaguebearers with that then you should consider either avoiding them entirely or just throwing a few expendable units at them turn after turn

yoshimo
09-09-2008, 09:49
@yoshimo: yes shooting them would have been a viable tactic with all of those flamers that i can get in a vampire army....oh wait..

@weemo: keep your sarcastic comments to yourself
amazing that you managed to fit both of these comments in the same post...

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 09:56
Come on guys please check the attitudes at the door. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion all this could have been avoided if certain people didnt have to make themselves feel superior by attempting to outwit people with snide remarks.

If you cant add anything to these discussions without being rude then don't post because you're wasting your time & the time of others.

Archon.42
09-09-2008, 12:11
well unfortunately i do not tailor my army to fighht someones list
so taking those vamps with flaming heavy would contradict why i play the game
but anyways crazywhiteboydance has the right ethos, mathammer sucks ass and this list certainly has sparked some debate
.42

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 13:57
This list would beat me the first time I played it, unless I get lucky with a cannon shot and kill Epididimus or I finish off the unit before the tally begins to add up. The second game I should be able to handle it comfortably.

Some armies like Dwarves, Empire and Skaven will have little trouble with it once they know about your massive block with its vital but (relatively) vulnerable characters.

I wonder what certain armies like O&G or Brettonians would do?

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 14:43
I dont know, but I'd like to find out.

Unfortunately the only Bret player I know is, well, shall we say undesireable as an opponent, lol.

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 14:54
Well a large lance into the flank may work, your characters wouldnt be able to do anything, the knights armour should deflect most return attacks and you should lose by enough that instability cripples the unit. The following turn repeat with a second lance in the other flank or the rear. Basically just keep hitting it with lances, eventually it will crumble.

Thats in theory anyway. O&G are basically knackered though as short of 8 spear chukkas I cant think of a way of weakening the unit fast enough to allow you to counter it succesfully in melee.

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 14:57
Dont forget the unit is stubborn, leadership 8 with a reroll on that instability test!

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 15:06
Still there are only 18 of them, thats about 40 wounds or 60 lance hits...hmmm time for plan B.

Actually do Bret characters have to accept challenges? I presume that they do but if not challenge with your champ and then conviently have your lord placed right next to epididimus (is it the herald that makes them stubborn? if it is just kill him instead), 50/50 chance of killing him on the charge so it might even work.

Failing that just kill everything else on the deamon side and run away from the big block. Actually thats the best plan as theres no way you can stop the Brettonian player from doing this.

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 15:16
Hmmm I may have to bite the bullet & play our local bret army as I really want to see how it does.

Also if it's anyting on cavalry bases or larger hitting the front then they will strike last, which means if they charge in the front they have to weather 34 attacks with 30 of those potentially auto wounding on 4's.

That said not sure how it vapours would against the lance formation?? Interesting. (Strokes beard)

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 15:23
34 attacks with 30 of those potentially auto wounding on 4's.

You wont have the time to start amassing your tally, and anyone who charges that unit in the front deserves whats coming to them (foolhardy character assassination attempts excepted) :) A flank charge will have 8ish return attacks, killing 1 knight ish.

I probaly should have a closer look at the DC book, im pretty hazy about most of their special rules :)

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 15:28
Still with someone charging in the flank they'll have a character in a fighting rank that will have to (barring sacrificial unit champions) fight skulltaker in a challenge. Also remember they have no combat res bonus for flanking the unit either.

Damn I really want to play a game after all this discussion, lol.

Weemo
09-09-2008, 15:37
My intention with the mathammer was to prove that to lose combat by 24 you must have been doing something seriously wrong, i mean you dont even need mathhammer to work that out.

Anyway, ironically in doing the mathhammer i have now completely contradicted my first point on how "easy it would be to beat this list" :p but im sure any flaming attacks would give it a run for its money.

in any case how mathhammer "sucks ass" as you put it is difficult for me to understand as it proves theories, resolves pages and pages of theoryhammer discussions and provided evidence that litterally cant be denied. i wonder who sucks on the ass now? :D

With 17 years of experience crazywhiteboydance, im sure you can beat most armies with this list, im just saying that a less one sided list would see you to easier victories for example in a gt environment:

1) most players would probably avoid the uber unit. claim as many table quarters and try and kill off the rest of the army, that alone would seriously hamper your chances

in essense its similar to having a uber kily dwarf lord in 2k, he will JUST be avoided completely whilst the rest of the army is surrounded.

2) if a player was daring enough to attask the unit, my best bet would be killing blow, if you manage to kill just one of those three heralds, the unit loses 1dp either its big banner or nurgles rot and if epidemius gets the axe then you lose those immense 4+ poisen attacks.

3) however this is an uber hard unit, and properly supported is an almost impossible nut to crack so to speak, i must say that such a unit would be considered very beardy and i dont think inspires much sfluff or fun in a game. i mean i doubt three heralds would agree to a planquin each and fight in the same unit?

at the end of the day its a list that is indeed very controvercial and i would not play simply due to its one sided-ness and in some ways beardy, i would prefer a strong but more balanced list to play with but of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.

crazywhiteboydance; i live nowhere near portsmouth, but im sure if we had a game you would win (vastly more experienced) but im not sure that would prove much. I may or may not be a good gamer, hell i could be a noob:eek: but that wouldnt re-afirm or invalidate my argument

regards

Weemo

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 15:47
As I mentioned earlier I'm well aware of how beardy & not very nice this list is & very different to any other list I've ever concocted.

This is why it's not intended for friendly play, or any play for that matter.

Still Weemo, I have to say that reading your post you seem a bit steamed. I do hope that's not due to me upsetting you any way as that was never my intention, also I do understand the importance of math-hammer & sucks ass was not my definition.

Take it easy y'all

Archon.42
09-09-2008, 15:54
no, sucks ass was my definition and it does not PROVE anything. you have to remember that these dice are random number generators and you cannot be 100% certain on an outcome of the random number generator. and seeing that you cannot be 100% certain on something, you have not proved it
and i'll think you'll find its you ;D
.42

fubukii
09-09-2008, 16:07
actually slime trial only stops the bonus +1 you get for flanking, it does not allow the daemon player to keep his ranks despite being flank charged,

that means he started at banner, bsb with no ranks.

Weemo
09-09-2008, 16:09
you see thats where you wrong archon 42, your taking PROVE in its litteral form, the inclination i was making is that mathhammer is the most accurate way of describing or summing up a situation where there will obviously be a certain amount of variables therefore the use of probabilities and averages are used, i didnt think i'd have to explain that but obviously where the intelligence lacks i'd be happy to give more detailed explanation. :D

and with the "suck ass" thing, honestly i quoted it more out of its stupidity rather than its most intellectual use of course, i find your post rather immature i must say. I mean someone that desribes i method of explanation as "sucking ass" must either be very immature or lack the ability to apply vocabulary where appropriate. :D

crazywhiteboydance, thankyou i was in no way offened by your post, i can see why you wouldnt use the list, anyway it nice to see someone who appreciates the credibility mathhammer deservers.

regards

Weemo

Gokamok
09-09-2008, 19:00
First of all, I think this is getting slightly off topic... Let's start a thread in general/tactics forum on the importance of mathhammer for that debate maybe?:angel:

On topic:
I'm not quite sure what all those demonic abilities do exactly, but wouldn't it be a valid option for a VC player to charge a small unit of Blood Knights with Banner of Hellfire into the units front and then spamming Vanhel's on them to provide ASF and rerolls with flaming attacks and then try to kill some of the characters? 12 rerollable attacks with S7 flaming should probably kill something of importance?

Archon.42
09-09-2008, 19:52
how can i be wrong by taking the literal meaning of a word
of course i must have very low intelligence by taking the literal example of written text, but anyways my opinion of mathammer's ass-suckage is my opinion and you insulting me isnt the best way to try and "educate" me frankly.

but anyways on topic, the daemonic gift "noxious Vapours" removes ASF, and makes models in base contact always strikes last. this is why character assassination doesnt work, hope that helps

.42

Gokamok
09-09-2008, 19:59
but anyways on topic, the daemonic gift "noxious Vapours" removes ASF, and makes models in base contact always strikes last. this is why character assassination doesnt work, hope that helps

.42

I guess my VC army will just stick to relying on IF Curse of Years to beat it then:D Can't really think of anything else VC has against something like that...

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 22:02
I was reading the bolt thrower rules just now and if an entire front rank of a unit is made up of characters (including champions) then the characters are hit using the standard hit allocation rules. Assuming you have a champ and are set up 5x4 then there will be at least 1 nurgle kebab by turn 2 :)

Archon.42
09-09-2008, 23:23
unfortunately there are a few PB in the front rank:(
nice try tho

.42

fubukii
10-09-2008, 00:23
how wide does he run this units with 4 characters thats 7 wide on 25mm bases anymore and he will have extremely hard time wheeling

crazywhiteboydance
10-09-2008, 07:51
The unit is effectivley 8 wide (speaking in terms of bases).