View Full Version : Nub Question: Defining Starting Size

05-09-2008, 21:20
I would have to say I am new to fantasy because the last time I played it was in its infancy (1st and 2nd editions).

I have been reviewing the VC army book as well as the VC FAQ and have a question which seems like one of those duh types. It has to do with how is starting size defined as it applies to VC units.

In every other army it would be a no brainer (maybe the same for VC), you look at any infantry unit at the start of the game if its 5 models wide by 4 deep thats 20 little soldiers or a starting size of 20.

However VC have that unique ability to bring units above the basics as described above through the combination of a spell (ION) and a Vampire ability (Master). Here is where the question comes in. When said combination is used in any particular magic phase at the conclusion of the phase do you recalculate and redefine the units starting size? Here is why.......

Example: before the battle begins the unit is 5 wide by 4 deep or 20 in total. In a subsequent phase 5 additional models are raised via ION and Master so the unit is now 5 x 5 = 25 models. Now at the start of the players next phase that unit is 25 strong. In a subsequent phase that 25 strong unit suffers 3 casualties (now 22 strong). Can a Necromancer or Vampire without Master cast ION to restore those 3 lost wounds bringing the unit back up to 25 or can they only restore wounds under 20?

I understand that the FAQ mentions such items like the Bloodrinker w/CCart or the Tomb Blade cannot increase a unit above its starting size even if the wielder as the Master ability. The only time a unit can increase over starting size is with the actual spell. This is where when is starting size defined and is it ever recalculated due to the ION/Master combination. So again...

Example...That unit mentioned in the previous example is now 25 strong due to a casting of ION in a prior turn. In a subsequent round of HtH combat 3 models are lost prior to the Vampire with Tomb Blade attacking, reducting the unit to 22. In the Vampires return attacks he causes 4 wounds, will the blade return the 3 lost bringing the unit back to its size at the start of the phase i.e. 25 with the last wound being lost because it cannot increase the unit beyond 'starting' or is the tomb blade useless until a unit is reduced below 20.

PS: I did search the forums but with 444+ hits when using key works like "starting size, VC, unit" etc. its a tad bit much to muddle through.

05-09-2008, 21:23
The starting size is the number of models the unit starts with at the beginning of the battle - otherwise it wouldn't be the starting size.

So no, in the example given the blood drinker would not raise units above 20 - as that would be going over the unit size that the unit started the battle with.

Nurgling Chieftain
05-09-2008, 22:13
Starting size is starting size, not maximum-ever size. If you recalculated each turn, you'd also have to recalculate downwards from casualties, which would make the whole thing pretty pointless.