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Try Again Bragg
07-09-2008, 22:41
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lords can take Land Raiders. Who drives them and shoots their guns? The Codex says "Crew: Space Marines", but I wonder if that's because it was a copy and paste job from another book. Besides, if they are space marines, then they aren't Grey Knights. They have their own Land Raiders with a specific Codex entry which says "Crew: Grey Knights".

Also, how many crew does a Land Raider have and what are their duties? I would assume one driver and one gunner, but I do not know for sure.

Bonus question: Do the Grey Knights' Land Raider crews also get farmed out to the Mechanicus for a while?

Lothlanathorian
07-09-2008, 22:44
They have two crew, a driver and a gunner/commander. As for the rest, shoddy compypasta job and I would think that the Mechanicus comes to them lol.

Faustburg
07-09-2008, 22:53
It seems likely the Grey Knights have Tech Marines, even if it is not in the army list... They have as much, or more, sensitive tech with them into the field as ordinary Marines, and it would probably be a security risk to have a un-shielded hired hand tech priest with them on missions, open to possession or other nastiness.

(and if you want to go grey beard old-school; they indeed had Tech Marines in their original army list in Slaves to Darkness, 1988... :))

Try Again Bragg
07-09-2008, 23:38
Could servitors do the driving and gunning?

Santhenar
08-09-2008, 00:07
It could be possible that the GKs have something similar to the Adeptus Mechanicus mind scrubbed troops, removing all their emotions to make them less vulnerable to the predations of Chaos

Lothlanathorian
08-09-2008, 00:32
The machine spirit does when it has to. Isn't there a story where a Land Raider crew dies, but the LR itself drives itself back to base or some jazz?

][nquist0r
08-09-2008, 07:23
LOL Loth, everytime I see your avatar it makes me think of Eyes Wide Shut...

Voleron
08-09-2008, 07:26
The machine spirit does when it has to. Isn't there a story where a Land Raider crew dies, but the LR itself drives itself back to base or some jazz?

Yes, and there's stories of how a particularly Violent machine spirit keeps on fighting after it's crew has died, and once it runs out of ammo, it opens it's assault ramp, lets a horde of orks inside, and then blows the reactor. A Land Raider has a rather powerful AI.

Sojourner
08-09-2008, 08:01
Besides, if they are space marines, then they aren't Grey Knights. They have their own Land Raiders with a specific Codex entry which says "Crew: Grey Knights".

That's a pretty awful instance of rules lawyering. It's an oversight, not a deliberate statement - precedent doesn't exist in game rules.

Lothlanathorian
08-09-2008, 19:53
How is that rules lawyering? Crew could say orks for all that matters and it still has whatever stats are printed in the Codex. Saying that a Grey Knight LR is crewed by Grey Knights isn't rules lawyering, especially since this is a background question and not a rules question.

sydbridges
08-09-2008, 20:49
That's a pretty awful instance of rules lawyering. It's an oversight, not a deliberate statement - precedent doesn't exist in game rules.

I fail to see how anything he suggested in this thread could lead to rules lawyering, unless you think he's trying to argue his inquisitors should have access to the new Marine land raider, which doesn't appear to be the case given that this thread is in the background forum.

Leftenant Gashrog
08-09-2008, 22:38
I believe Sojourner wasn't referring to actual rule lawyering, more that he was implying that one shouldn't literally take "Crew: Space Marines" to exclude Grey Knights.. unless your honesly saying that Grey Knight Dreadnoughts are also not 'crewed' by Grey Knights. (they are listed as Crew: One Space Marine)

Neknoh
08-09-2008, 22:39
On the same topic of questions.

Does the machine spirit have a voice? And if it did, would it be male, female or merely mechanic?

ironcurtin117
08-09-2008, 23:32
I direct you all here
www.TSOALR.com
seriously though, the machine spirit's voice would be in Binary and only tech marines would understand it let alone hear it

Sojourner
09-09-2008, 09:46
I believe Sojourner wasn't referring to actual rule lawyering, more that he was implying that one shouldn't literally take "Crew: Space Marines" to exclude Grey Knights.. unless your honesly saying that Grey Knight Dreadnoughts are also not 'crewed' by Grey Knights. (they are listed as Crew: One Space Marine)


Yeah, that's pretty much it. It could also be significant for house rules like crew bailing out of vehicles and so on.

Try Again Bragg
09-09-2008, 19:02
I have yet to get a straight answer about who drives Ordo Malleus Land Raiders. This is from a purely background point of view, not tabletop rules. I find it hard to believe that the Inquisition has to go borrow a couple Grey Knights every time they want to go toolin' around in their bad-ass tanks.

Kurisu313
09-09-2008, 19:53
My suggestion would be stormtroopers, since they crew the rhinos and chimeras.

I Imagine the inquisitor requisitions the LR, and then can pretty much crew it with any of his own men, so probably not marines.

An Inquisitorial LR is NOT a Grey Knight LR, IMO.

Sojourner
09-09-2008, 20:08
Would you really, seriously like to ask a Grey Knight driver to 'lend' you his vehicle? Even if you're an Inquisitor?

If an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor turns up with a Land Raider, it probably but not necessarily belongs to the Grey Knights and is on secondment to his mission. Being Inquisitors with the most vital work, they will have a pool of equipment to call on which almost certainly includes ancient and rare armoured vehicles. If the Inquisitorial Land Raiders are Grey Knight Land Raiders they're crewed by Grey Knights. If they're acquired via the Ordo Malleus' special equipment pool (the Ordo Malleus are NOT the Grey Knights or vice versa) then they'll be crewed with whoever's convenient; probably Tech-Adepts - that is, Ordo Malleus crew who've spent time with the Adeptus Mechanicus like Techmarines and Enginseers.

Try Again Bragg
10-09-2008, 00:18
Would you really, seriously like to ask a Grey Knight driver to 'lend' you his vehicle? Even if you're an Inquisitor?

If the Inquisitor is nice or friendly, then he will ask. But even when he asks, he really is ordering. "By the Authority of the Immortal Emperor of Mankind" is not just a pretty turn of phrase. It is very real and has as much power as you'd think.

Also, it would probably be easier for an OM Inquisitor to get stuff from the Grey Knights than from other Chapters because they are the OM Chamber Militant.

Leftenant Gashrog
10-09-2008, 00:21
It should maybe be noted that the reason that the IG don't use Land Raiders is because following the loss of the Forgeworld of Anvilus 9 during the Horus Heresy, the Emperor decreed that Land Raiders were to be used only by the Astartes and the order has never been rescinded.. It could be that the Inquisition chooses to respect the God-Emperors wishes by only bending the rule (since if a Land Raider is being driven by a marine its still being used by a marine..) as opposed to outright breaking it (having it driven by guard or tech-priests).


I have yet to get a straight answer about who drives Ordo Malleus Land Raiders. This is from a purely background point of view, not tabletop rules. As far as I'm aware there is no canon statement as to who crews them, the notes in the vehicle stats are therefor the only relevant info.

Lothlanathorian
10-09-2008, 01:02
Maybe vehicle crew aren't full battle brother/justicars or whatever yet. Could be their scout equivalent.

Sojourner
10-09-2008, 11:21
If the Inquisitor is nice or friendly, then he will ask. But even when he asks, he really is ordering. "By the Authority of the Immortal Emperor of Mankind" is not just a pretty turn of phrase. It is very real and has as much power as you'd think.

Well strictly speaking yes, but Grey Knights are probably one of the absolutely miniscule group of individuals in the Imperium who would have the balls to say "I'll need to speak to your superior" and get away with it. If Space Marines of any ilk and particularly Grey Knights have a specific, strategy or protocol-related objection to an Inquisitor's methods, they're part of the very select group that can legitimately question them. Even a Lord would do well to use some discretion because making Space Marines do as they're told is much more destructive and time-consuming than persuading them.

Try Again Bragg
10-09-2008, 19:19
Ok, but I think that Grey Knights would be less likely than other Chapters to question an OM Inquisitor.

I checked out Codex: Witch Hunters and their Land Raider entry says "Crew: Tech-Priests". That's good enough for me. I think that Codex: Daemonhunters ought to say the same thing, but their entry was just a c&p job from Codex: Space Marines.

Voidhawk
11-09-2008, 15:17
Actually, only the Inquisitorial Rhino is crewed by Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, the Chimera is, oddly enough, crewed by regular Imperial Guardsmen, which explaines the difference in BS...

I like to think that Inquisitorial Land Raiders are crewed by techpriests, seems like the coolest option in my mind :)

Malevon
12-09-2008, 04:03
Would a Grey Knight really refuse service to a Puritan Inquisitor of good standing? No. Grey Knights exist to serve the Inquisition, a duty they don't take lightly.

It's a moot point however, as if you look at Imperial Armour: Space Marines and Forces of the Inquisition, you'll see that Inquisitorial Land Raiders are not Grey Knight Land Raiders. The crew are agents of the Inquisitor, either personal hangers-on or some other specialists requested from higher up in the Ordo Malleus or Adeptus Mechanicus.

Sojourner
12-09-2008, 10:23
That settles it then. Who exactly the land raider originally belonged to would only be significant in game terms if you had special rules for crew models, so then you'd probably have to specify where it came from.

Smack on the wrist for Games Workshop though, for painting their =][= land raiders to look very much like they belong to the Grey Knights...