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slaanghoul
08-09-2008, 05:43
What is a soul in 40k universe? This is a hard word to describe for me.

For a human in 40k they have souls. So when they die, what happen to the soul? If I understand it correctly, when a man dies, his soul goes to the Warp and then what? I mean, is the soul a person with feeling and personality? And what part of the Warp is the man's soul at. Does the soul battle against Chaos power? I know if in life u are a Chaos worshiper, your soul belongs to that chaos power.

Many xeno uses soul for many purpose, but GW never explain what the soul is and what it is for if it does not belong to Chaos power or a meal to C'tan or Dark Eldar.

Does Servertor (sp) have soul? If they are human w/ no feeling (a zombie like) but still alive with soul, can Chaos ever possess them? I can see an army of Servertor sent to fight Chaos in the warp with that idea.

If a human who were good in life and follow the Emperor, when he dies does he live along side the Emperor in the warp? If there are no God(as in our God, Buddha, etc. . .) then there are no heaven... so what happens to soul?

Anyway, What is a soul in 40K?

Radium
08-09-2008, 06:56
As far as I know, a soul is the same as it is here and now. A sort of consciousness, the mind and all that.

When you die in 40k, what happens depends on the strength of your soul. When an Eldar dies, his soul is strong enough to keep it's own form and thoughts in the warp and so live there (except Slaanesh will consume it now). When a human dies, his soul just gets swallowed up by the warp because our souls aren't strong enough to keep a form in the currents of the warp.

And yes, servitors would have a soul. They're still humans who underwent major labotomy. They are LIKE zombies, but they still live.

It's a very difficult question, and answering it even more so as english is not my native language. I hope I helped answer it a bit. Others will probably add/make corrections to my answer to better provide a full answer.

Clockwork-Knight
08-09-2008, 10:03
As Radium said, all human souls (with some exceptions, like really powerful psykers, daemon-prince-contesters, and the Emperor himself) simply break up in warp-matter (and might become food for daemons before finally simply dissolving). Part of their dying consciousness can take form in other, new daemons, like the furies.

No, there is no heaven in the Wh40k-verse. The Emperor does not reside in a celestial plane, but lingers on the Warp, battling countless daemons who threaten to overrun the hidden Warpgate right under the Golden Throne. It is all a lie, a wish-belief that the Ecclessiarchy tells the common men so that they have at least something to look to after their hardships in life. A lie that everyone believes in, because there would be no hope at all else. There is only the Warp, also called the Well of Souls, and there, the Chaos Gods rule supreme, because mankind feeds those greater Powers by bloodshed, despair, lies, excesses and hatred, forcing the weakened soul of the Emperor to battle for all eternity, existing in a hell created by all his believers.

That is Warhammer 40k.

slaanghoul
08-09-2008, 10:14
As Radium said, all human souls (with some exceptions, like really powerful psykers, daemon-prince-contesters, and the Emperor himself) simply break up in warp-matter (and might become food for daemons before finally simply dissolving). Part of their dying consciousness can take form in other, new daemons, like the furies.

No, there is no heaven in the Wh40k-verse. The Emperor does not reside in a celestial plane, but lingers on the Warp, battling countless daemons who threaten to overrun the hidden Warpgate right under the Golden Throne. It is all a lie, a wish-belief that the Ecclessiarchy tells the common men so that they have at least something to look to after their hardships in life. A lie that everyone believes in, because there would be no hope at all else. There is only the Warp, also called the Well of Souls, and there, the Chaos Gods rule supreme, because mankind feeds those greater Powers by bloodshed, despair, lies, excesses and hatred, forcing the weakened soul of the Emperor to battle for all eternity, existing in a hell created by all his believers.

That is Warhammer 40k.

So say Primach X(blood angles or whom every) or any Imperial heroes - who Chaos hates very much, once they die, can Chaos capture that soul and toucher them?

Also if that's the case for all souls (once material body dies, soul goes to the warp), why do Eldar try to protect their soul so much? I mean, before Slaanesh was born, their soul were just food for chaos warp anyway.

If Chaos were ever defeated, what happens to the souls? They would just go to the warp and start to break down again right?

Is the "Break down" of the soul a painful process? I mean, or once a body dies and soul start their journey to Warp... are the souls scare or is it just part of life that all souls except???

TheLionReturns
08-09-2008, 10:25
I think it depends on the strength of will of the individual. For the majority of humans, the soul simply breaks up into constituent emotions and becomes at one with the warp. There is no consciousness or unified whole remaining. The souls of the eldar, however, retain their unity and remain conscious in the warp so can be tortured and the like.

slaanghoul
08-09-2008, 10:47
I think it depends on the strength of will of the individual. For the majority of humans, the soul simply breaks up into constituent emotions and becomes at one with the warp. There is no consciousness or unified whole remaining. The souls of the eldar, however, retain their unity and remain conscious in the warp so can be tortured and the like.

wow, with a universe like 40K .. . . Chaos is the ultimate right. I mean ...in the end, you will belong to Chaos anyway, so why fight it. Might as well join Chaos in life now and maybe enjoy the after life in the Warp.

The truth of man is. . . man should surrender to Chaos. I love Word Bearers even more now.

Clockwork-Knight
08-09-2008, 12:00
So say Primach X(blood angles or whom every) or any Imperial heroes - who Chaos hates very much, once they die, can Chaos capture that soul and toucher them?Primarchs are all psykers. It depends on the individual will what the Fell Powers could do to them. However, even they will dissolve, eventually.


Also if that's the case for all souls (once material body dies, soul goes to the warp), why do Eldar try to protect their soul so much? I mean, before Slaanesh was born, their soul were just food for chaos warp anyway.Long before the rise of mankind, the Eldar were the most supreme species in the universe. Their souls could be reborn, and they were immune to the predations of the other three Chaos Gods Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle. When they created Slaanesh, the newest Chaos God through their hedonistic and perverted life-style, every eldar soul was automatically attuned to that specific deity. Of all Chaos Gods, Slaanesh is the one that the Eldar fear the most (although the other three can still try to claim them and use it for their purpose, but they'll have to bargain/fight/share with Slaanesh anyway). And if some still accept the (in many things outdated) background lore from Rogue Trader, then the Chaos Gods Nurgle, Tzeentch and Khorne were created by mankind, and only since the Middle Ages, meaning that the Eldar didn't care about those weak warp-beings back then anyway.
Things have changed, and now, the Eldar try to preserve their consciousness, because unlike back then, they can't reincarnate anymore.

Their only hope (a very vague and uncertain one) is that a new psychic gestalt will come to be (Ynnead), who might battle and win against the Prince of Chaos. Then, all Eldar souls would be free once more, and they would lose their fear from death. However the prophecy states that this event still marks the end of the entire Eldar species. But then again, the Eldar would rather die in peace than in eternal torment.

If Chaos were ever defeated, what happens to the souls? They would just go to the warp and start to break down again right? They would still break down, correct. But there would be no Chaos Daemon to torment it (for how long it may be possible).

Is the "Break down" of the soul a painful process? I mean, or once a body dies and soul start their journey to Warp... are the souls scare or is it just part of life that all souls except???It is not written if the dissolving process is painful or not. I would guess not, because most souls just lose consciousness, and so also any idea of fear and so, the more they start to become warp-matter. But you never know, and perhaps it is an extremly agonizing moment where you do wish that you stopped to exist. It wouldn't be out of place in the Warhammer 40k-universe that death only means eternal punishment for any race in the milky way (or perhaps in the universe).
Of course, there might be exception, like the Orks, who don't really feel pain, and create their own mighty gods of the Warp, Gork and Mork (or was it Mork and Gork?), who instill in them the power of the mighty Waaagh.

In the end, for mankind, all is hopeless.

TheLionReturns
08-09-2008, 14:40
wow, with a universe like 40K .. . . Chaos is the ultimate right. I mean ...in the end, you will belong to Chaos anyway, so why fight it. Might as well join Chaos in life now and maybe enjoy the after life in the Warp.

The truth of man is. . . man should surrender to Chaos. I love Word Bearers even more now.

Quite, there is a certain inevitability to the 40K universe. It is worth bearing in mind however, that there is a difference between the Chaos Gods and the Immaterium. The Chaos Gods are sentient wells of emotion that dwell within the Immaterium. The Immaterium on its own is not good or evil, or anything really. It is simply an ocean of raw emotion, with eddies in it corresponding to particular emotions, some of which are sentient.

Facing the inevitability of their soul joining this mix, is not necessarily the same as submitting to a Chaos God. It is my take that in committing to one God in life they are essentially pledging their entire soul to that one God, trying to purge their bodies of all emotion except those that the God in question represents. Please the God enough and they get to retain their sentience via daemonhood.

So there is a case for submitting in life and enjoying an afterlife in the warp. Alternatively you could spin not submitting as enjoying the peace that is nothingness whilst avoiding an eternity of slavery.

Brother Siccarius
08-09-2008, 15:47
Chaos is not the warp, the warp is not chaos. Chaos, while living and partially made up of the warp, is not the warp. The Warp, while containing chaos and demons is not a part of chaos, it is, in fact, older than chaos entirely. Before the chaos gods gained sentience the warp was still there, we know that because of the events that happened after the War in Heaven. There was the slaver plague that consumed a good number of psykers before the chaos gods gained sentience and became the number one enemy in the warp. The superstitious imperium might believe that the warp is full of or made out of demons, but then, they've always had the short view of things.

As to the soul, we know that if one worships a chaos god their soul goes to that god, and since the Eldar Dieties are generally all dead and eaten by Slaanesh (with the exception of their god of war and god of trickery) they tend to be eaten by Slaanesh in turn. In essence, a soul in the warp is drawn to their god like a beacon, and since Slaanesh has consumed most of the eldar gods, well, lets just say you don't want to go where they are now.

I've always been of the belief that, since the Emperor has a warp shadow, be it himself or a diety that's grown out of his follower's belief in him, that the followers of the Emperor go to him after death. I don't necessarily mean that every emperor bothering hive dweller that gives a small prayer every so often will go to him after death. But those that follow the emperor's divinity in the way that the cultists follow the chaos gods? Sounds about right to me.

Aun'shi, hero of Fio'vash
09-09-2008, 00:08
Just one question:
The Tau race doesn't have any presence in the warp, does this mean that they don't have a consciousness after death?
Maybe the aetherials have it...

Clockwork-Knight
09-09-2008, 02:16
Of course do the Tau have a soul. It just doesn't glow that much like that of humans (and is nothing in comparison to eldar souls). And all races (safe the Eldar) lose consciousness in the warp. The ethereals are nothing special in that part compared to any race in the galaxy.
A daemon would rather feed on a human soul than that of a Tau, but can still feast upon it if necessarily.

Forget this notion that the Tau don't have any presence at all. It's wrong, and hasn't been written anywhere, neither in both Tau codizes, nor in any obscure Black Library book. They do have a warp presence, and the only difference to humans is that it's less visible, but it's still there.

thechosenone
09-09-2008, 02:21
well for those players and fans that believe the entombed Emperor is up to something (Becoming a warp deity, star child and all that jazz) it may be that the Emperor is in some way claiming or saving Human souls. Who knows. There is very little on what he is actually doing now that he's in a super coma. Just that he sits there and keeps the astrnomicon going.

Its a grey area but the alternative is to know that no matter what you do and how you live, as a human, you are but food for the gods.

Clockwork-Knight
09-09-2008, 02:32
We know that he still serves as a psychic beacon, has actually been imprisoned by the Inquisition so that he can't wake up at all, part of his consciousness is still battling daemons who are on the verge of overruning the Golden Throne, and with it Holy Terra itself, and can't do really anything else. The Emperor himself can't save any souls. His soul has to save himself, and keep Terra from being overrun.

However, another warp-gestalt, that which the Imperium might have created, that specific deity of hatred, intolerance, and retribution, a pure warp-being totally different from the true Emperor, might perhaps claim human souls and feast upon them, so to battle his stronger and bigger rivals, the Gods of Chaos.

I would deem that warp-creature the Not-Emperor. :D

As for any case, the Emperor himself (meanin, the man who lead the big crusade long ago) is just rotting in his glorified support chair, and his soul being tormented since very very long time. And all of this only because the earlier Inquisitors trapped the Emperor there, so that he can't regenerate at all, and they have the power.

Kage2020
09-09-2008, 02:36
Canonically, insofar as that has meaning? The soul is psychic energy. Erm, and that's about it. There are lots of subtleties that might crop up, but if they do they do so in fan interpretation. For a source, as ephemeral as it is:


Release from his body, the Emperor's psychic power, his soul, was cast adrift upon the tides of the warp...
Of course, there's a huge latitude for interpretation here depending on quite how you interpret that, up to and including the grammar. ;) (This coming from the book that uses "Shamen"... ;))

Kage

Aun'shi, hero of Fio'vash
09-09-2008, 10:04
Of course do the Tau have a soul. It just Forget this notion that the Tau don't have any presence at all. It's wrong, and hasn't been written anywhere, neither in both Tau codizes, nor in any obscure Black Library book. They do have a warp presence, and the only difference to humans is that it's less visible, but it's still there.

OMG
Anyone says they don't have a presence cause they don't have psykers.
There's also a wraithbone-like part in the head of aetherials, maybe one day they'll be able to performe psychic powers.
But if Tau have a presence this means they can also be tempted by the powers of chaos, and this would be strange.

This is something I found on a background site:

The Tau achieve faster than light travel by "diving" into the warp and being subsequently flung out a great distance from where they entered. There are positives and negatives to this method of travel, the first is that because their ships have such minimal contact with the warp and are in a sense just skimming the surface their speed is greatly reduced in comparison to races which immerse themselves fully in the warp. It is also true that the Tau are a race bereft of psykers, whether it's because of their limited warp interaction or something distinct about the Tau mind it means that they are unique amongst the dominant races of the galaxy. For while it does mean that the Tau do not possess the significant advantages that having psykers brings it is also worthy to note that not one Tau has ever fallen to Chaos. In fact, as a species, the Tau register as barely more than a blip in the warp and it may well be that this has been their saving grace, protecting the altruism and idealism their race shares from the destructive tendencies of chaos.

So we may say they have such little a presence that they don't fall to chaos nor hope to have an after-death life, is that right?

Tommygun
09-09-2008, 10:44
I have always felt that there is a balance to the overall universe.
A law of averages if you will, that tends, in the long run, to levels things out.
There must be something in the universe that will balance out the affects of chaos.

slaanghoul
09-09-2008, 12:57
OMG
Anyone says they don't have a presence cause they don't have psykers.
There's also a wraithbone-like part in the head of aetherials, maybe one day they'll be able to performe psychic powers.
But if Tau have a presence this means they can also be tempted by the powers of chaos, and this would be strange.

This is something I found on a background site:

The Tau achieve faster than light travel by "diving" into the warp and being subsequently flung out a great distance from where they entered. There are positives and negatives to this method of travel, the first is that because their ships have such minimal contact with the warp and are in a sense just skimming the surface their speed is greatly reduced in comparison to races which immerse themselves fully in the warp. It is also true that the Tau are a race bereft of psykers, whether it's because of their limited warp interaction or something distinct about the Tau mind it means that they are unique amongst the dominant races of the galaxy. For while it does mean that the Tau do not possess the significant advantages that having psykers brings it is also worthy to note that not one Tau has ever fallen to Chaos. In fact, as a species, the Tau register as barely more than a blip in the warp and it may well be that this has been their saving grace, protecting the altruism and idealism their race shares from the destructive tendencies of chaos.

So we may say they have such little a presence that they don't fall to chaos nor hope to have an after-death life, is that right?

I think I've seen Chaos Tau forces in White Dwarf. It was back when Demon hunter first came out and any army can be part of the Demon force. Example a Tau or Orcs possessed by Chaos or are mutated by the power of Chaos. The models are cool too.

TheLionReturns
09-09-2008, 19:03
Psykers are vulnerable to falling to Chaos because their powers are effectively a link to the warp. This link works both ways and allows daemons to enter the material universe via possession of the psyker. As Tau have no psykers then corruption in this way is impossible.

That said there is nothing stopping Tau worshipping a Chaos God as a cult, or even being corrupted by a daemon trapped in the material world via other means, say perhaps one posessing a weapon or other artifact. The likelyhood of cults springing up is perhaps unlikely however, due to the poor nourishment Tau souls give and relative lack of interest accordingly from the Chaos Powers.

Finnith
09-09-2008, 20:12
*Warning! Metaphors shall be used since ive not had a go at one in ages*

By right of being born humans gain access to a soul somehow in 40k.

Some dont and become untouchables which somehow relates to psycho-geneology which i just made up and involves stuff like are you genetically an untouchable/psycher or does your soul decide you are and alters your genes (a la the Emperor*), what happens if 2 untouchables have children, what if a psycher and an untouchable have a child and other such random questions.

Once your born/the warp detects life being created a portion of the warp gets sucked into the body somehow. Untouchables not having the hole for a soul, Tau having a smaller hole so theres less warp/soul to fill that gap so it appears weaker as the soul is more diluted. With normal humans there would be a stronger concentration of warp energy than a Tau. Psychers and Eldar would get filled up with alot more soul/warp making them have a stronger psychic presence than a normal human.

There then seems to be some way through actions in the galaxy to shape the warp energy inside you something like clay. Whilst a human might be able to stretch to giving their soul a smily face and some arms and legs it still just a lump of clay and when they die and go back to the warp and with abit of moving around its impossible to say where the old bit of clay is. With eldar and their long lives they are able to sculpt perfect replicas of themselves then bake the clay/soul/warp hard. So that when it comes to throw the soul back in the clay pit you can always see the shape and outline of their soul. This makes it easy for slaanesh to pick the soul out since they stand out like a sore thumb.

*Warning new metaphor!*

Some actions will also change the nature of the soul. Worshiping the dark gods or living a good life will change the makeup of the soul much like mixing out different liquids in a bottle then shaking them alot. For example worshiping the dark gods would add a layer of oil to your watery soul. The further in you go the less water you have and the more oil there is. When your average worshiper dies the water will go back to the warp but the oil will float on the top and run into the other patches of oil creating/feeding chaos gods.

*The emperor had a normal set of parents however was genetically engineered to be immortal somehow by a bunch of shamans who would have all been dead already by the time of his birth/conception. This was to avoid reincarnation which the shamans were pretty good at but still ended up getting eaten by warp entities.

PS This is all totally made up but seems to fit and i liked the soul made out of clay stuff cos it felt rather old school religion type stuff.

Brother Siccarius
09-09-2008, 23:16
Primarchs are all psykers. It depends on the individual will what the Fell Powers could do to them. However, even they will dissolve, eventually.

Err...what? Leman Russ wasn't a psyker, Horus certainly wasn't a psyker to begin with....in fact, the majority of the primarchs weren't psykers at all...in any shape or form. Only Sanguinis and Magnus were mentioned as being psykers to begin with.

Clockwork-Knight
10-09-2008, 07:18
Psykery takes many forms, not only the phantastic lightning bolt-throwing from the ass, or the atomic destructo-burp. It also manifests as pure bodily power, like immense superstrenght, invulnerability, small foresight, and other things. Look at the Eldar Exarchs. None of them throw lightning bolts or shoot mental projections into the brain of the enemy. They still use warp-powers, to gain their superior skills, like camoflage, nimble dexterity, perfect marksmanship, and other things. Psykery in game rules does mean lightning bolt throwing, but in the background lore, it is many things more. And all primarchs were capable of influencing the warp to enhance their powers.

MvS
10-09-2008, 08:41
Indeed, although most of the Primarchs did this instinctively without actually engaging in any conscious effort to manipulate the Warp.

Kage2020
10-09-2008, 23:11
40k has Shadowrun physical adepts!? ;)

Kage

Clockwork-Knight
10-09-2008, 23:52
Yes they do. Those damn space elves all get Adept Powers for free and can upgrade to Full Magician as a positive quality from the beginning. Damn immortal elven-munchkins and their munchkin rules.

Kage2020
11-09-2008, 00:16
LOL.

Munnchkin...? Or not balanced?

Kage

Adra
11-09-2008, 00:20
Human souls go into the warp until the battle with the great enemy when all shall be called in the final days of humanity.

Faith is a powerful thing in 40k. Consider the issue of an afterlife unsolved.

Kage2020
11-09-2008, 01:43
Based upon the perspective of the agnostic. An important distinction.

Kage