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Socialist
08-09-2008, 19:21
I modified this list off of another 2k I wrote up which had mad shooting but not so many guys. Hows this look? It's the second list I've written up.

TROOP: 1190
30 Clanrats- standard, musician- 165
30 Clanrats- standard, musician -165
30 Clanrats- musician, standard- 165
30 Clanrats- musician, standard- 165
6 Night runners, 2 hand weapons- 42
6 Night runners, 2 hand weapons- 42
6 Night runners, throwing stars- 42
6 Night runners, throwing stars- 42
25 Clanrat slaves- 50
25 Clanrat slaves, musician- 54
25 clanrat slaves, musician- 54
25 clanrat slaves, musician-54
18 giant rats- 90
12 giant rats- 60


SPECIAL: 300
5 Gutter Runners- tunnellers, poison- 85
25 plague monks- 2 hand weapons, standard, musician- 215

RARE: 119
7 plague censer bearers- 119

HEROS: 390
Warlord- heavy armor, shield- 99
Chieftain- heavy armor, BSB, warbanner- 101
Warlock-engineer- 2 dispel scrolls- 95
Warlock engineer- 2 dispel scrolls- 95

TOTAL: 1999
Models: 315
Units: 17

therat
08-09-2008, 19:39
It is my opinion that Night Runners tend to fair poorly. I would remove them all and use their points to field another unit of Gutter Runners (not necessarily tunnelers, I don't really like them either, but to each their own) and add to something else.

My second complaint is the 4 dispel scrolls, just because I see taking two dispel caddies as unsporting. At the very least I would suggest dropping one scroll for the Storm Daemon.

Other than that, looks like a solid horde list. No shooting sounds a bit risky, but you've got engineers and a whole lot of troops.

Oh, a note on the slaves. As compared to 20, 25 slaves does not really accomplish much when you consider what slaves are for. I don't think I'd take musicians on them, either. I'd say drop 5 from each and the musicians so you can use those points somewhere else (more monks perhaps, or with the dropping of night runners you might be able to squeeze in a ratling gun or a couple jezzails. Or, actually, give your warlord something more protectey like enchanted shield).

Socialist
08-09-2008, 19:59
The Warlord definatlry isn't going in the front rank, not the way he's built.

From what I've read on Underempire slaves are effective at 21-25 w/musicians and the night runners (yes are very, very weak. They can't charge skinks!) are there to help take out war machines, lone mage hunt and screen the monks and censure bearers so they can't be pulled out of formation by the enemy.

Now if I droped what you suggested I could add a unit of 6 and a unit of 5 jezzails.

The list that this is moded off of hand 2 ratling guns, a warp-fire thrower, 4 units of 2 globadiers, 2 units of 6 jezzails and a warp-lightning thrower. Minus the Monks, censure bearers, 2 units of night runners, the giant rats, and one engineer.

The army again with changes (sorry for doulbe posting but I want to keep the original list for my own referance):

TROOP: 1106
30 Clanrats- standard, musician- 165
30 Clanrats- standard, musician -165
30 Clanrats- musician, standard- 165
30 Clanrats- musician, standard- 165
6 Night runners, 2 hand weapons- 42
6 Night runners, 2 hand weapons- 42
25 Clanrat slaves- 50
25 Clanrat slaves, musician- 54
25 clanrat slaves, musician- 54
25 clanrat slaves, musician-54
18 giant rats- 90
12 giant rats- 60


SPECIAL: 400
5 Gutter Runners- tunnellers, poison- 85
25 plague monks- 2 hand weapons, standard, musician- 215
5 Jezzails- 100

RARE: 102
6 plague censer bearers- 102

HEROS: 390
Warlord- heavy armor, shield- 99
Chieftain- heavy armor, BSB, warbanner- 101
Warlock-engineer- 2 dispel scrolls- 95
Warlock engineer- 2 dispel scrolls- 95

TOTAL: 1998
Models: 307
Units: 16

dal9ll
08-09-2008, 21:50
Why would you ever want to have a Skaven army without a Grey Seer? Theyre among the best Wizards in the game!

Also, why no upgrades on the Engineers? If you give them the three upgrades with the long names, theyre essentially level 2 wizards that can cast Warp-Lightning at 2D6 S5 hits. That will slaughter people.

Socialist
08-09-2008, 21:55
because their too expensive. 235 pts naked is more expensive than the most expensive unit posted here. And Their LD isn't that good. I'd rather start out the game with all units within 12" of the general having LD 10.

dal9ll
08-09-2008, 22:43
But they still benefit from Strength in Numbers if theyre in a large unit, right?

Socialist
08-09-2008, 23:02
right. Which is how you get LD 10 from a LD 7 general.

Socialist
08-09-2008, 23:24
for therat, heres my other army with shooting:

http://underempire.net/index.php?showtopic=26879&st=0#entry2807993

therat
09-09-2008, 04:22
Warlord is the way to go, throw in a seer in 3000+. I wanted to ask, have you ran tunnelers before? Whenever I use them they end up wasted. I would think it'd be more effective to drop the night runners, drop the tunneling and just take a few squads of gutter runners. They're just sooo much more effective.

I never use a whole lot of slaves anyway, if the people over there advise 21-25, go for it. I don't quite understand the musician, though.

Shooty army looks pretty good, lots of models in both armies. I play a very different force, but with your number of models it should do fine.

My force is kept around 220 models. 4 blocks of 30 clannies, two with ratling guns (the similarities end there) , 2x20 slaves, 1x25plague monks, 1x7 jezzails, warlord with warpstone armour and something else, two engineers fully equipped (minus pistols), one with storm daemon and dispel scroll, other with either warpscroll or dispel scroll and a couple extra tokens. That's what I'm used to fielding. Still a horde, just not as hordey as yours. Just saying I have a different perspective. Let me know how it turns out, I'm planning on bulking up my numbers depending on the new rules.

Lord Dan
09-09-2008, 04:30
Drop all the night runners (168 points) and take another unit of 30 clanrats w/ standard and musician (165 points). Then drop 5 models from each of the slave units and form a new unit of 20. You'll then have exactly 4 points left, so why not give another slave unit a musician?

Socialist
09-09-2008, 09:26
For therat: I've never played skaven before and only fought against 'em once or twice. They're an army I want to pick up which is the complete opposite of my main army which is Lizardmen. That shooty list has gone through more revamps than I can count. Magic for me is going to be a bit of a problem in that army, but I should have enough units/units in combat that it shouldn't be too bad.

For Lord Dan: That may just be a good idea. It would add 26 models to the army but subtract 2 units which I can use to screen the frenzeed troops. I might end p doing that. But for right now my goal is to construct the shooty version of this list first an dwork my way from there.

Shamfrit
09-09-2008, 09:46
Skaven without ranged support relies solely on numbers, since more or less all of the Core Units can never win combats on wounds alone against your typical enemy. I belive you've got too many clanrats, as a unit of 30 is huge, and there are enemies out there that will out move you and a flank that wide will be a hugely enticing target for the likes of Dryads and Daemonettes.

I'd suggest stripping the units down to 25, or at least two of them, and use these points to put the Warpstone Amulet on your Warlord, giving him a 3+ save in combat as well as a 4+ ward save (and who will care if he dies at the end of the game, it's only 200vc to your opponent.)

I'm not going to suggest the use of Weapon Teams, not in the current environment, although I still use 2-3 I've only developed a successful rate of fire through the use of Night Runner Circle Screens (which move out of the way once they're in a position to fire. (And I avoid panic by having units of 5.)

Don't waste points on Jezzails; not only are they far to expensive to buy as models at the minute but they rarely hit and do enough damage except to larger targets, but I would consider upping your Engineers to the 2dice Storm Daemon Warp Scroll variety, as even 2 castings of Warp Lightning per turn with 3 dice each time can cause you enough damage to swing things, and since you've stripped ranks a bit you should be able to modify them to do this.

You take 6 casualties then, and drop to LD9, 11 to LD8, and so on. Reducing flanking damage, and making deployment less cluttered.