PDA

View Full Version : About Flamers and screamers



kaintxu
08-09-2008, 23:38
Hello i havent tested my list jet but i have a coming tourney but i dont have much time to test stuff due to exams, and tourney begins in two weeks.

My lists are posted on the army list section, the thing is I want to ask you guys which have been playing daemons since release the next thing

Are flamers and screamers worth? do they perform well on the battle (1 3 screamer unit and 1 3 flamers unit)

i really like them both but i see a few downsides.

- Screamers are weak.

- Flamers are tough but they have BS 4 and they are almos going to get a -1 for long range and a -1 for moving, which makes them hit on 5 for an average 10 shots, thats 3 hits or so, for 105 points, how do you see it?

ROCKY
09-09-2008, 00:04
well first off most people will not take flamers under 4-5 and almost always people promote one to a pyrocaster. and yes screamers were better in 6th edittion but they can fly over units doing S5 attacks. so they are perfect in units of 4-5 to take out stuff like fast cave, skink scouts, etc. however if u ask which is the better unit? i would say flamers hands down. flamers can shoot, and whoop in CC with 2 wounds and 2 S5 attacks each.

feeder
09-09-2008, 01:17
Flamers are mad good. Dirt cheap for all the awesomeness you get. 360 LOS, S5, Ward. I hate Flamers.

Can't say anything about Screamers, no experience.

Oenghus
09-09-2008, 01:55
Take a big group of flamers with a pyrocaster -- watch as the guy across the table either burns to death or ties himself in knots to deal with that unit. Or he play High Elves and just starts giggling.

Screamers are great at harassment. Flamers are killers.

Ravening Wh0re
09-09-2008, 04:46
Flamers are one of the best units in the game. They can take on anything. I hates them

The_Dark_Lord
09-09-2008, 06:35
a unit of 6 flamers is awsome, though it may be 5s to hit sometimes, 6 D6 st4 hits is insanely good, any army will have huge casualties from these bad boys, and will, as stated above, tie themselves in knots trying to take them out

sulla
09-09-2008, 10:14
- Screamers are weak.

- Flamers are tough but they have BS 4 and they are almos going to get a -1 for long range and a -1 for moving, which makes them hit on 5 for an average 10 shots, thats 3 hits or so, for 105 points, how do you see it?

Screamers are not weak. The slashing attack is where their strength lies. They are overpriced though.

For flamers, always upgrade one to pyrocaster; for the number of shots he rolls, his is about the best priced shooting upgrade in the game. 4 is a good number for each unit. As an opponent, they are very hard to face; good shooting married to 360 LoS and hard to engage in cc since almost anything that does will have to go through a hail on stand and shoot flames first.

crazywhiteboydance
09-09-2008, 10:30
As everyone else has said flamers are amazing, even at range & not too shabby in close quarters either.

Screamers can be great but they've taken such a wallop to their stat line that it's become too easy to drop a whole unit & @ 30pts each that's exremely painful.

Valaraukar
09-09-2008, 10:39
Screamers are very useful against horde armies in largeish or multiple smaller units as you can fly down their battle line scoring many hits a turn and if you can cause one or two panic tests things really start to get fun.

EDIT: Although as people have said now they're not very durable so make sure to land them out of units LOS and preferably hidden from shooters by other units or terrain.

jigplums
09-09-2008, 11:33
why do HE laugh? due to dragon armour?

Valaraukar
09-09-2008, 11:39
Yup quite a bit of immunity to fire so you charge at them with something with it and as ALL their attacks are flaming they can't hurt them.

kaintxu
09-09-2008, 12:47
so just taken 3 each is bad?

theunwantedbeing
09-09-2008, 13:07
Screamers, they either work or they dont.
If they arent causing havoc in the enemy army, they're most likely getting shot and killed.

Flamers...do what you want with them really, they tend to hold their own.
Just avoid overly armoured things.

You dont need more than 3 of anything, nor the upgrade, but these are 2 units where its often an advantage to go for the maximum unit size and full upgrades where possible as they dont really suffer because of it.

DeathlessDraich
09-09-2008, 14:50
They are both good in large numbers.

2 X 6 Flamers with Pyrocasters destroyed a Giant in 1 turn of shooting.

One Tzeentchian list I've yet to use includes 17 Screamers in total. Problem with that list is no one wants to play against it. :p

Kalec
09-09-2008, 22:04
Screamers are only good in large numbers, where those autohitting S5 attacks add up to something substantial. They are just too expensive and fragile to take unless you know you can protect them, which is very hard to do in an average game. 20 of them gives VC fits, which might be reason enough to use them. But, in almost every case, flesh hounds are better for your special slots.

Flamers kill everything. Two units of 6 are well worth their cost.

Prince_Zail
24-09-2008, 18:48
first off screamers are great... lone wizzards or seige crews?... one fly by can take out multiple crews in a single turn...

Kalec how can you say flesh hounds are better in special?... they've never accomplished anything for me...

the most effective special unit i've ever used is a few seekers with the sirien standard. people not being able to flee or shot, just sit there and take a charge?... plus they have a charge of twenty they can help anywhere. yeah they go right next to my blood crushers so nobody can run from them...

flamers are really good though. mine were having trouble taking out skink squads because they skirmish(hit on 6's)... so i just charged them in and the killed them pretty well... he wasn't expecting that... lol...

Sirisaacnuton
25-09-2008, 12:57
I use them both in my all-Tzeentch army. I've got to say that the Flamers tend to not do quite as amazingly as you'd think given all this commentary, but they are really really strong. Sometimes they'll be a little lackluster, but the turn where they all roll 5's and 6's on their numbers of shots (and you got within 9"), they're ridiculously brutal. If they have to get into CC, they can be surprisingly nasty with their stats, except they suffer from having super-low WS. 2 wound skirmishers are pretty hard to take out with shooting unless you dedicate a lot though, so that's a big plus.

Screamers are a unit I really enjoy using, but they're completely hit-or-miss. Sometimes someone will just aim a magic missile their way or a couple units' shooting and they'll just vaporize. However, when they're mostly free to do what they want, they can be amazing. I've taken a Vampire Lord off his Zombie Dragon with them (twice!), done a ton of damage to some pretty nasty squads, and if you find something like a bunch of units of ranged shooters clumped up on a hill, maybe a couple war machines, they'll just go to town criss-crossing. I run 3 units of 3, don't bother with anything larger than min. squad size. They are still pricey, and sometimes you just have to be content with the fact that they won't do much and will get wasted. In the environment I play in, with the army I run, they've been very useful to me more times than they've been useless, so I'm content with them for now.

All in all, I'd advise giving both a shot. A big unit of Flamers, maybe 2, see what you think. With the Screamers, if you want to try them out, take 3+ units of them or 2 units of 5ish, so you'll have enough to honestly evaluate them.

Oh, and a bonus for the 2 units, at least in an otherwise magic-heavy Tzeentch list. There exists the possibility that the Screamers will cause Panic checks in the movement phase, Tzeentch can certainly force some Panic in the magic phase, then the Flamers can force more in shooting, followed by Terror tests on their turn. It's fairly hilarious to cause a unit to break during your Remaining Moves part of the phase. The Great Icon of Despair can really complement those units, though you won't win many friends with it.

Edit: I have to agree with Kalec that Flesh Hounds are the better special slot by far, if you're looking for straight effectiveness. No question in my mind. However, that's not to say that Screamers are worthless.