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Smiling Banshee
10-09-2008, 13:58
Just starting out in WHFB I'm a long time 40k player. Looking through the mini rulebook last night and trying to get a grasp of the rules for combat.

One thing i couldn't establish was allocating hits to you musicians, champs and standard bearers. I found something saying that casualties are generally taken from the rear but couldn't find anything else.

Im assuming that if your standard or musician die then someone else picks up their equipment, so you dont technically lose them, but not sure about the champ.

If any ones got a page ref for the mini rule book that'd be great.

Oh also the BFSP goblin archer command dont actually have bows on their models, can they still fire in the shooting phase.

Thanks

Lord of Skulls
10-09-2008, 14:09
It sounds like you got most of it right.
Musicians and Standard Bearers cannot be killed until they are the last models in the unit. (Or as you say, another model picks up the instrument or banner.) Unit champions, however, can be targeted specifically by close combat attacks and certain spells, and can be killed. (They will not die from attacks at the unit itself until only the command group remains.)

The rules for Command Groups are on page 80 in the regular rulebook, and I believe they are the same in the small version.

Valaraukar
10-09-2008, 14:11
Look at page 80 in the mini rulebook it's all about command groups. As for directing attacks only the champion can be targeted separately otherwise remove models from normal troopers in the rear rank. Standards however are removed and replaced with a normal model if you are broken and forced to flee as they drop it in the rush etc. Musicians however you keep and give you +1Ld when attempting to rally. All of the command is assumed to be armed the same as the rest of the unit so can shoot as normal unless you have the option of giving different armament (i.e magic weapons etc.) to the champion.

Smiling Banshee
10-09-2008, 14:20
Great thanks for that, I'll read up on command groups tonight.

Bob the Butcher
08-10-2008, 06:59
Characters can allocate some of their hits on an opponents Champion (ie:split their attacks).

Normal troops with more than 1 attack must allocate all their attacks at the Champion if they wish to target him (and are in base contact), otherwise they hit normal rank & file troops.

Nurgling Chieftain
08-10-2008, 07:27
All models can split attacks (assuming they have multiple attacks to split!), not just characters.

Tarax
09-10-2008, 10:01
Oh also the BFSP goblin archer command dont actually have bows on their models, can they still fire in the shooting phase.

Thanks

Command models are said to be equipped with the same weapons as the rest of the unit, though this does not always show. Just look at the Goblins with spears, there too the champions do not have spears, but swords.

Another thing you should note is that although you remove models from rear ranks, this does not mean that the Standard Bearer and Musician can still fight back if they were killed.

Braad
09-10-2008, 10:22
About equipping different: you don't have to equip all models in the unit with the same weapons, as long as the majority carries the weapon you paid for. In a unit of bow goblins, you can mix in the odd spear or even handgun, they still count as goblins with bow. The reason the champion (and rest of command group) often has a different weapon or equipment, is to make him stand out, but it can also be done in other ways, for example by not taking a helmet and putting him in a heroic pose.

About removing casualties from the back: Actually, in frontal combat models always die in the front. But after that happened, their comrades step up (and pick up fallen banners and instruments). The ONLY reason for removing from the back is so for the sake of ease. Its still the models in base to base with the enemy that die.

The champion can die in 2 ways, due to kills done by the enemy: Attacks are directed at him, or the unit is completely wiped out.
If there are 2 basic troopers and a champion left, and you do 3 or more wounds on troopers, the champion also dies even though no attacks were directed at him.
Other command models also die before him, if no attacks were directed at him.

Festus
09-10-2008, 15:15
Hi
Normal troops with more than 1 attack must allocate all their attacks at the Champion if they wish to target him (and are in base contact), otherwise they hit normal rank & file troops.
There is much wrong here: Every model may allocate its attack(s) on any model it touches.
If the attacker has more than one attack, he can split them up anyway he likes provided
1st: all attacks are allocated (you may not not attack) and
2nd: all attacks go against an eliglible target (this usually is an enemy model in base-to-base-contact).

It has nothing to do with being a character or not.

Festus