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WhiteKnight
11-09-2008, 04:20
Well I've been trying to make a really good beastmen list, which is really hard to do this edition until it gets redone. I like having Minotaurs and Beast Herds in my army but I want to get a big amount of raw power from Minotaurs, Ogre Bulls, and Bestigors. Also I'll hopefully be getting 3-4 dragon ogres or 3 with a shaggoth so I can get the fear factor up. So I was hoping that the people here on Warseer could help me get a solid BoC list.

txamil
11-09-2008, 04:23
It sounds like you already have the list you want right there...

Valaraukar
11-09-2008, 20:09
Tuskgor chariots are pretty good too, decide first whether you're going for a doombull or a beastman as your general as you need to decide whether to build your list around ambush or not.

Spirit
11-09-2008, 21:47
Does ambush actually work? I always thought it was too risky to have loads of points turn up in a useless part of the board.

sulla
11-09-2008, 21:58
Does ambush actually work? I always thought it was too risky to have loads of points turn up in a useless part of the board.

Ambushing is only really good for small disruption units IMO., say herds of 5/5 with full command. These are good enough to beat missile troops or war machines, as well as magehunt and march block.

I've even had the fortune to tie up Thorek for the entire game with 2 90pt units, freeing the rest of my army to advange at full speed.

Ambushing fits my personal playstyle because I don't take a doombull anyway since I have no bestigor block to hide him in and he would attract too much fire in a small minotaur unit. Plus, I like Khazrak's rules so i use him.

Spirit
11-09-2008, 23:11
Ah ok that makes sense, i didnt know herds could be as small as that, that would make them rather good. However i'd be tempted not to give them a standard as that 100 points per unit that you might just give away :/

sulla
12-09-2008, 06:14
Ah ok that makes sense, i didnt know herds could be as small as that, that would make them rather good. However i'd be tempted not to give them a standard as that 100 points per unit that you might just give away :/

The reason I give them standards is that their targets are typically war machines or missile troops. The +1 CR just lets me bully them a bit better and increase my chances of winning the combat (pretty important for infantry with no armour). I would probably never put them in a battle that they might lose willingly. I'd rather flee from a charge and be run down... which funnily enough doesn't yield a standard to the enemy.

Harwammer
12-09-2008, 19:42
5/5 musc or 7g/5u musician/champion are good set ups for ambushers.

7/5 with champ tends to ensure all your front rank are gor (ungor are easy kills in combat) and gives you +1 rank a lot of the time. The champion makes them more likely than not to come on in the right spot and more resilient to psychology.

I'd recommend against a standard in ambush herds; they are easy to capture so an easy 100 vps for your opponent.

An ambush herd will have outnumber, musician and many more attacks against warmachines (also sometimes they'll have +1rank too) so should be able to win these fights without the standard anyway.

WhiteKnight
13-09-2008, 17:34
In 2k, I'll be using a doombull as my general. And I'll have Raiders to cover the flanks and provide screens for either my independent mages.

Chicago Slim
13-09-2008, 18:58
Does ambush actually work? I always thought it was too risky to have loads of points turn up in a useless part of the board.

It works, because it's actually very unlikely that they'll end up in a truly useless part of the board:

At Ld7, a beast herd has a 58% chance of coming in exactly where you said you wanted them. The rest of the time, they have about a 30-40% chance of coming in somewhere on the opponent's table edge, and a 20-40% chance of coming in from a flank (depending on the dimensions of your table).

Even in the total 20-30% of the time when they come on somewhere sucky, if they aren't near the enemy, they march 10", ignoring difficult terrain as they go.

The big trick to using Ambush well is to have realistic expectations and a deep decision tree: there's always a significant chance that they won't be useful before Turn 3, and maybe even Turn 4. Then again, that's half the game, and the half when it usually really gets decided...

WhiteKnight
13-09-2008, 23:49
The advantage of Ambush is by estimating where you'll opponent will be positioned in a few turns. When it comes to armies with base 4 movement, I usually estimate them being about 10-14" away from my army if I hold back enough. Then I go from the sides and have a shaman with them so I can use The Wild Call from the Staff of Darkoth so I can charge.