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View Full Version : 2k VC army, NO Varghulfs!



Gokamok
11-09-2008, 13:31
So, after much fiddling about, I've come up with an army that I think will be able to do quite well. There's a nice bunch of magic, decent hard hitters, and for once, my Lord is actually meant to see combat!

Here goes:

Vampire Lord
-Master of the Black Arts, Lord of the Dead, Infinite Hatred
-Flayed Hauberk, Cursed Book, Gem of Blood, Sword of Kings
-lvl 3
440 points

Vampire (BSB)
-Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred
-Enchanted Shield, Staff of Sorcery
225 points

Vampire
-Master of the Black Arts
-Sceptre de Noirot
175 points

Vampire
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
-Helm of Commandment, Black Periapt
190 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
-Banner of Hellfire
110 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

5 Dire Wolves
40 points

3 Fell Bats
60 points

5 Black Knights
-Barding
140 points

4 Blood Knights (Hell yeah!:D)
220 points

Black Coach
200 points

Total: 2000 points
PD: 13
DD: 7, +1 to dispel rolls

A few notes on the characters:

The Lord:
Main caster, will likely spend most of his time spamming IoN on my skeletons. He's also quite durable, 2+ AS, 1-use 2+ rebound, enemies hitting on 5+ in one turn should be enough to keep him alive against most things. He scores an average of 3.5 hits against opponents with WS<7, which equals about 58% chance of Killing Blow each turn.

BSB:
Provides combat support, CR and dispelling power. 1+ AS should allow him to face any kind of R&F without dying.

Vamp with Sceptre:
This is an idea I thought up recently (though I'm likely not the first to come up with it:D). His most important role is to force my opponent to use dispel dice. The first time I cast Raise Dead, my opponent will probably allow it, but seeing that this guy raises 10-12 zombies with each cast, it will probably be a dispel priority. Also responsible for casting IoN on zombies.

Lvl 2 Vamp:
Backup IoN spammer if my Lord loses IoN for some reason. Otherwise he's your average HoC vamp, hiding behind the battleline to provide WS 6 wherever it's needed the most.

The wolves and bats are basically meant to harass and block stuff, and hopefully provide a bit of a threat to enemy war machines, while the Black Knights will largely function as support for the 3 skeleton blocks, providing extra punch and removing ranks where needed.

I know that the rare choices are a bit..... different, and I believe I've said some nasty stuff about the Black Coach in the past.
Dear Black Coach, you have my apologies;) Yes, the coach is vulnerable to S7 attacks, yes it's a bit random, but I really find that having a chariot-type unit in the army adds a lot of flexibility. Also, the coach is absolutely sick if it gets to some of the higher "charge-up" levels. Against Banner of Sorcery, Blue Scribes, etc. it is also likely to hamper my opponents magic a lot more than my own.

I love my Blood Knights. I am very well aware that many armies have different ways of minimizing the damage done by frenzied troops, but baiting a frenzied unit around an actual battlefield is a lot harder than doing it in theory. The damage output of this 220-point unit is so insane that I sometimes think about fielding 2 units. I also think it adds even more flexibility to the army to actually have a unit that can charge and more or less autobreak most things head on.

Gaftra
11-09-2008, 13:33
i think its a big misnomer that you need the vhargulf. either the black coach or banshees are amazing choices.

Lord Dan
11-09-2008, 16:05
I agree. Vargulfs are good, but there are other viable choices. Just a few comments:

Your 440 point vampire lord is more vounerable than I'm comfortabtle with. I saw a tournament where two vampire count players played eachother. The one Lord got his head cut off from killing blow turn 3 because he had no ward save. The gem of blood is a fun item, but there's only one use to it, and against something like a Chaos lord (something we'll be seeing a lot of soon) you're going to be taking more than one wound.

I'd like to see some more dire wolves. Just one more unit would be nice.

It's a good list. It's just extremely small. If a Dwarf gunline gets first turn you might have some issues.

madden
11-09-2008, 17:55
Also check out the faq dread knights have to have a horse and can't swap it either i'd take avatar instead for the bsb as for the rest looks ok but beware of dispel heavy armys with your small unit sizes as there are a few items around that end magic phases, i've not used blood knights (cost a bomb) but i use a small unit of wraiths and these work for me.

Gokamok
11-09-2008, 21:06
I agree. Vargulfs are good, but there are other viable choices. Just a few comments:

Your 440 point vampire lord is more vounerable than I'm comfortabtle with. I saw a tournament where two vampire count players played eachother. The one Lord got his head cut off from killing blow turn 3 because he had no ward save. The gem of blood is a fun item, but there's only one use to it, and against something like a Chaos lord (something we'll be seeing a lot of soon) you're going to be taking more than one wound.

I'd like to see some more dire wolves. Just one more unit would be nice.

It's a good list. It's just extremely small. If a Dwarf gunline gets first turn you might have some issues.

As for the Lord, I'm not planning to have him fight Chaos Lords, Dragons and so on, but I actually think I have a decent amount of protection against those things. If my generals unit is charged by a nasty character, I have my unit champion to take a challenge, then I can raise the champ back to fight another challenge, and on the 3rd round of combat I'll have Cursed Book, Gem of Blood and a 2+ AS going for me. After that, I'll likely be able to heal up to full before the 4th round of combat, by which time I will hopefully have been able to move in some support to win the combat. The only ways I can think of to protect him better is either going for Dread Knight+Walach's Hauberk (which would mean removing Gem of Blood and Infinite Hatred) or by taking Crown of the Damned which isn't going to happen. Stupidity tests on my best fighter and magic powerhouse? No thanks:D

I agree on the Dire wolves. I was considering taking another unit instead of the bats, and then adding a Power Stone to the Sceptre-vamp. Unless I change my rare choices, I think that's the only way to fit in more wolves, but it might be a good idea.

As for gunlines (or any other army where I can expect to be taking lots of damage early on), I'm a quite patient player, so I won't mind deploying behind terrain or at the back of my own DZ and then spend a turn or two making my units bigger before I advance. With a 13 PD army, I really think that minimum size on the 3 core blocks is the way to go, since it allows for more hard hitting troops in the army.

Another interesting option could be to replace the bats and coach with another unit of wolves and another (!) unit of Blood Knights:eek::wtf:
Any thoughts on that idea?

Gokamok
13-09-2008, 14:49
Made a few changes to the list, and I think it's slightly better now, even though I lost a PD:eek:

Vampire Lord
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Infinite Hatred, Dread Knight
-Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Cursed Book, Sword of Kings
-lvl 4
440 points

Vampire (BSB)
-Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred
-Enchanted Shield, Staff of Sorcery
225 points

Vampire
-Master of the Black Arts
-Sceptre de Noirot, Dispel Scroll
200 points

Vampire
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
-Helm of Commandment, Black Periapt, Biting Blade
195 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

5 Dire Wolves
40 points

5 Dire Wolves
40 points

5 Black Knights
-Barding
140 points

4 Blood Knights (Hell yeah!)
220 points

Black Coach
200 points

Total: 2000 points
PD: 12
DD: 7, +1 to dispel rolls, 1 scroll

The biggest change is in the Lords equipment. I took Dread Knight and Dark Acolyte instead of Master of the Black Arts, and switched Gem of Blood and Flayed Hauberk for Walachs Bloody Hauberk, meaning that he now has 1+ AS, 5+ ward and enemies hitting him on 5's for one round of combat. Probably as good as it gets in terms of protection.

I also transformed the 3 Bats into 5 Dire Wolves and removed Banner of Hellfire from the Skellies, then spent the points on a much needed Dispel Scroll and a Biting Blade for the last caster vamp since it's really the only thing I could do with 5 points leftover:D

I'm not all too worried about "only" having 12 PD, since it should still be enough to get a bunch of spells through. I'm planning to do a casting rotation somewhat like this for the first few turns:

1) Cast Raise Dead twice with the sceptre-vamp. Depending on the opponent, I'll either deploy them as missile screens or flankers/speedbumps.

2) Cast IoN on a Zombie unit with the BSB. He can't add to the Skeletons anyway, so might as well try to bump up the Zombies a tad.

3) Cast 7xIoN on the Skeletons, hopefully I can add d6 models to each unit every turn since Raise Dead is likely to draw out some DD.

Hmmmm..... I'm starting to think that it might be necessary to start out with 15-strong units of Skeletons. I might have trouble getting them to a proper size if my opponent lets me raise 2 units of Zombies each turn and only focuses on dispelling IoN. Any thoughts/comments on that? (Or anything else;))